So Clinton is ready to go to the mat for mandatory universal health insurance?

[Radical Activist]

Well, that's nice since she abandoned the issue for over a decade. I'm not forgetting that from 1994 on all the Democratic Party talked about under Clinton's leadership was half measures like a Patient's Bill of Rights or prescription drugs for seniors (but not everyone else who needs them). The Clinton administration didn't push hard for anything comprehensive after 1994 and the party stopped talking about it completely. Does she expect me to forget that fact?

Is that her idea of not giving in and not giving up? That's her record as a change agent? Give me a break.

Clinton made a lot of good points at the debate but that was completely disingenuous baloney. That's the one thing that really pissed me off.

[DaLittle Kitty]

1. WTF Has Hillary Been Doing For the Past 35 Years? FAILING MISERABLY THAT'S WHAT!

[DaLittle Kitty]

5. Corporatism is ruling the day here... Edwards Clearly Was The Presidential Candidate VS The KIDZ!

:)

[cosmik debris]

2. Is it universal health care or

universal health insurance? There is a difference you know?

[Radical Activist]

4. Very true.

I should have worded it as universal health insurance, which is what Clinton is pushing for. Universal health care is what's important to me.

[cosmik debris]

7. Thank you. n/t

[MH1]

9. Universally MANDATED health insurance

is what Clinton is pushing for, no?

Dems I've talked to really don't like that idea.

[Ravy]

17. I think Edwards brought up a good point about that tonight...

We are all for mandating Social Security... no privatization or withdrawal from that. We argue that it won't work if people blow their private Social Security because we will have to support them anyway.

Health insurance is the same way. If everyone is not covered and forced to chip in, then the cost will not become as low as it needs to be because there are less people in the plans, and those that do not have insurance will still be a drain on the health care system. We don't want to let those people die in the streets or infect entire communities because they do not want to be covered.

[hedgehog]

33. But Social Security is a non-profit program we all own

(I refuse to say the government owns Social Security)

Clinton and Edwards are talking about mandating the purchase of health insurance from private, profit making companies.

[cosmik debris]

21. I think it sucks badly! n/t

[papau]

10. Both - care paid for insurance with subsidy for under 3 times poverty level with

affordable minimum benefit - but that's a real benefit as opposed to current ins co minimum benefit policies - and with higher cost policies with more complete benefits that must be approved by regulators as providing reasonable bang for the buck

it is not single payer - more like low cost group insurance at a huge employer - like the Federal Gov.

[cosmik debris]

19. Are you saying that no insurance execs will be able to deny claims

or regulate how much they will pay for procedures or restrict treatments?

Introducing the insurance industry into the mix raises the cost and opens the door for abuse for the sake of profit.

[Bonobo]

16. Look here, brother, who's she jivin' with that Cosmic Debris anyway?

[papau]

3. And the Congress was controlled by which party during those years?

[Radical Activist]

8. You don't get what you don't ask for.

And you don't win elections when you don't stand for anything.

So if there's a Republican Congress during another Clinton administration can I expect her to completely abandon any progressive agenda and give up fighting like her husband did? Sorry, but I don't want to make that mistake again.

[Sparkly]

6. You seem to be confusing her with her husband.

[Radical Activist]

11. Wasn't health care her signature issue as first lady?

The one she was most personally involved in? Or should I not include anything she did as first lady as part of her record and experience?

[Sparkly]

13. You blame her for not getting something done after 1994

when the project was dead and buried?

[Radical Activist]

14. Who buried it?

And who didn't even bother trying to resurrect it? Bill and Hillary's approach to universal health insurance after 1994 pretty much is the perfect definition of giving up and giving in. They didn't even try. They didn't even make another serious push for it in the next election and talked about things like the patients bill of rights instead.
Its that kind of claim that makes it impossible for me to take her seriously. She will say anything no matter how ridiculous.

[Sparkly]

15. The Republicans.

The writing was on the wall. If you want to blame the Clinton administration, go right ahead -- but her position dissolved when the project did.

[Radical Activist]

18. You can make all the excuses you want but the fact is that she didn't fight.

Bill and Hillary gave up and gave in. Will you make excuses for Hillary when she gives up again the next time the Republicans defeat something? Republicans didn't stop Bill from bringing it up in the '96 election. Only Bill Clinton did.
Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

[Sparkly]

20. You're still mixing her up with her husband.

She's a separate person.

[Radical Activist]

26. So Hillary can't take credit for her work on health care?

You dodged this the last time I made the same point. Do we get to discuss Hillary's work on health care as first lady as part of her career or should we not consider that as part of her experience? You can't have it both ways. If she's going to take the credit then she needs to take the responsibility.

Is her work on health care as first lady part of her record of being a change agent or not?

I'm interested to see how you'll change the subject and avoid my argument this time.

[Sparkly]

28. Sure.

And when the task force was dissolved, her work on it ended. :shrug:

I'm not sure what you think I'm dodging or avoiding here.

[Radical Activist]

30. Her involvement ended.

In other words, she gave up. My point exactly.

You want to give Hillary credit when she pushed for it in '93 but at the same time say she has no share of responsibility for the Clinton administration dropping the issue. You can't have it both ways.

[Sparkly]

32. Her job ended.

Her job was chairing the task force on national health care reform. No task force, no job. The thing was dead.

She did, however, go on to work to help create S-CHIP a few years later (with Ted Kennedy).

She did some other projects related to health care, too.

[jgraz]

12. How is this not just mandated payouts to insurance companies?

These mandatory healthcare proposals seem somewhat fishy to me. Unless you get the insurance companies out of the picture, you're simply just forcing people to pay money to huge corporations, and then funneling our tax dollars to those same companies to cover those who can't afford the premiums.

Am I missing something here?

[avaistheone1]

23. There will only be change with a SINGLE PAYER universal coverage system,

Edwards is the only candidate who has talked openly about his plan will transition to it.

This will result in the insurance companies being left out in the cold.

[Radical Activist]

27. I thought you were going to write about Kucinich.

He's right on the issue but the last time I checked only Kucinich is pushing for single payer.

[cosmik debris]

24. You got it. It is a welfare program for big insurance companies

and I think it sucks.

[zulchzulu]

22. I think she meant a Pharma lobbyist named Matt

[K Gardner]

25. Mandated insurance and "universal" insurance are two totally different animals. You can't use the

two words together without being either misleading or intentionally dishonest. That's my beef with her, is that she's trying to pass off her mandated program/Gift of $$$ to Big Insurance, as "universal healthcare". Most people don't know the difference and that's just dishonest.

[OzarkDem]

29. All Dems in Congress drink the "incremental" kool aid

They're too worried about campaign donations to go all the way and they know the cost of Iraq prevents them from spending much money on health care reform. Their "deer in the headlights" approach to Iraq prevents them from doing a lot of these things. On paper, Hillary's plan looks good, but we don't know the timeline. Will it take 5 years, 10 years, 15 years to get universal coverage? Obama's plan is full of holes and short on details, he needs to answer the same question. Its an important issue since all the plans will require a lot of work in Congress.

Edwards, as an outsider, is willing to take a bigger risk, he doesn't have as much to lose.

One of the most important questions we need to ask all the Dem candidates is: "What is your timetable for implementing your health care reform plan?" That's where the rubber meets the road and then you'll find out who the best candidate is. Also ask, if your plan is incremental, who gets covered first? Who has to wait and how long will they have to wait? Are you going to propose your plan all in one bill or do it piecemeal? Lots of things to ask.

[Radical Activist]

31. The incremental approach

is the direct result of the '93 loss and the Clinton approach of working incrementally since then. It became the sanctioned approach of the party establishment under Bill Clinton's leadership.

This is exactly what Obama is talking about when he talks about the Democratic party not standing for anything. The Clintons didn't even bother arguing for something they believed in after 94. You might be able to barely win a few elections with a charismatic candidate that way but in the long run its a good way for the party to incrementally fall out of power.

[OzarkDem]

34. It will take someone special to get it done

and it can be done, but you have to believe it and fight for it. I can tell you Obama and Clinton will not move quickly for universal health care, they've both been conditioned to fear it in the Senate and of course have taken a lot of money from people who don't want it.

[cosmik debris]

35. In many states we have mandatory car insurance

The insurance companies get rich, the poor people get screwed.

Is that what HRC wants for the entire USA?