When Obama becomes our next president, how will the American Civil Rights Movement change?

[awaysidetraveler]

If it's going to be a shift in consciousness in America about civil rights, it will come from within us:
we will become conscious of that change, we will begin to embody that change, we will unite to continue that change,
and only once it is accomplished will we will understand in full how it came to pass.

Yet, if we do not begin to visualize that change, it cannot occur.

So once Barak Obama becomes President Barak Obama of the United States of America, how will your point of view change?

[Ediacara]

1. It won't change much for LGBT Americans

[awaysidetraveler]

2. I wouldn't be too sure of that. My gay cousin introduced me to Obama's campaign.

And Obama struck me as the kind of guy that just liked freedom in general.

[CyberPieHole]

4. No. Obama only likes freedom for himself. The LGBT community got thrown under the bus...

Have you heard of Donnie McClurkin?

[awaysidetraveler]

31. Wow, so this Donnie McClurkin sang for Obama, and now you think Obama's anti-gays?

I don't get it.

[Ediacara]

77. He didn't "sing for Obama" he ranted and spewed hate on behalf of Obama

Don't you get it?

[Bluebear]

115. "Sang for Obama" LOL

[CyberPieHole]

156. Yes. It was a sweet serenade. That's all~~~nothing to see here.

:evilgrin:

[Ediacara]

6. Not that it hasn't been done to death here, I realize it has, but if he's so pro-freedom, why does..

...he cozy up to homophobes so readily, so often, and so publicly?

[awaysidetraveler]

7. As far as I know, that was only once. Whereas he's been very public about accepting gay rights

in major speeches, including his most recent one.

[Ediacara]

30. He got a huge amount of flack because he hired McClurkin several days before the event

He refused to fire him, and then had him emcee the fundraiser, rather than just perform. He has issued, at best, a wishy-washy explanation of how he disagrees with McClurkin (but is totally a-ok with him headlining a fundraiser for him).

Additionally, he's recently been endorsed by Kirbyjon Caldwell, a Houston pastor who runs a "gay fixing" ministry. Caldwell says Obama is probably going to show up at his bigoted church, and he'll actively campaign for him.

Looks like two strikes to me. Obama is either a huge moron or doesn't care that he is cozy with bigots.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4133344

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/012108dntexcaldwellobama.5d89b5.html

[awaysidetraveler]

35. By this logic, when bad guys endorse good guys, good guys become bad guys.

Maybe you're a little too used to being persecuted for your beliefs.

[Ediacara]

38. Oh for crying out loud!

It's not that Obama is endorsed by bigots that matters, it's that Obama accepts the endorsements of bigots and at best gives wishy-washy renouncements of them. If Obama were to denounce Caldwell's hateful, wicked, sinister lies and reject his support, that would change my mind. But he doesn't. And he won't.

[awaysidetraveler]

45. I don't think that his pronouncements are wishy-washy. As for rejecting endorsements...

I have to admit, I'd also like to see that.

Still, I just don't think that he'll leave gay rights out in his presidency. It doesn't strike me
as the kind of thing we could expect from a president whose entire platform rests and moves on civil rights.

[Ediacara]

50. Not his pronouncements, his renouncements

And he can renounce and speechify 'til the cows come home in his best oratorial voice and cadance, the fact that he doesn't reject their support tells me at best, his renouncements are wishy-washy.

[awaysidetraveler]

55. I don't think you read what I sent. Obama's got your back, man.

One more time.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Civil_Rights.htm

[mondo joe]

61. Those are words. His actions tell a different story. NT

[awaysidetraveler]

64. Twenty years of working in civil rights isn't just words. Obama's got your back.

I'm convinced. Nothing you've written so far has convinced me that he doesn't have your back.

[Ediacara]

Well I'm not convinced

When and if he rejects McClurkin, Caldwell, and all the other bigots he's surrounding himself with, I'll share your naïve optimism. Until then, his walk and his talk don't know eachother.

[awaysidetraveler]

69. I have more information, and more proof. You should be convinced of this.

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/2007/08/09/video-barack-obama-rewind/

[Ediacara]

74. The McClurkin and Caldwell incidents happened AFTER the Logo debate

In other words, his words were nice, but his ACTIONS after that happened showed he was perfectly willing to pander to and embrace bigots.

[awaysidetraveler]

83. So you'd prefer no support of gay marraige, because he left the stage.

And this asshole took it up as the "we're free from gayness" parade?

Come on, I get it. You're angry, but that doesn't change Obama's central platform.
And that political platform should be yours, if you want civil rights for gays.

[Ediacara]

143. Do you have trouble with reading comprehension?

I mean seriously.... You're being intentionally dense....

[awaysidetraveler]

149. This is what I read, Dinoboy. Obama believes in civil unions and gay adoption rights.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/obama-criticized-over-singer/

[mondo joe]

80. You lopped off "gay". Tell me what he has DONE for gay civil rights.

And please be reminded: it doesn't matter if you think he has MY back. What matters is if I think it.

[awaysidetraveler]

87. Yet again, here's the proof. Obama's plan includes gay marraige rights.

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/2007/08/09/video-barack-obama-rewind/

[mondo joe]

90. Rhetoric is not proof. You've got nothing, so I'll top asking.

That well is dry.

[awaysidetraveler]

92. Nothing will satisfy you then: you can't even visualize having an ally as a president.

Think about that.

[mondo joe]

94. Proof in the form of real actions with results will satisfy me.

Which is why you can't.

[awaysidetraveler]

99. Civil rights activists will always be caught between sides: that doesn't make them wrong.

[mondo joe]

100. No actions with results for gays. Just admit it.

We already know.

[awaysidetraveler]

102. Gay marraige--your right--just admit it.

[mondo joe]

104. If you're going to argue like a child, we can just stop now. Thanks.

[awaysidetraveler]

106. I can't see how Obama could get out of his statements in favor of gay marraige. That's your cause.

Think about it.

This Caldwell guy is just another supporter.

[mondo joe]

107. That's extremely naive. I'll toss you back into the pond now and I'll check in

when you grow up some.

[awaysidetraveler]

109. Bye now,

The vision of gays and homophobes and everyone between apparently can't be realized.
By you.

[readmoreoften]

124. HAHAHAHAH!!! Yeah. He doesn't even include LGBT rights with "civil rights" on his webpage.

Mark my words, this man will do NOTHING for LGBT people. He is utterly ignorant about our issues and has proven himself in this regard time and again.

[awaysidetraveler]

127. He's been for LGBT people in a public way for over twenty years.

[CyberPieHole]

157. Was that during his pot smoking and cocaine snorting days?

Before he became a "Proud christian"?:eyes:

[awaysidetraveler]

128. For LGBT rights to adopt, and for civil unions that act like legal marraiges in all legal ways.

What other issue are you referring to?

[mondo joe]

142. And yet people who never have to face the reality of being a legal 2nd class citizen

feel they're in a position to tell gays to just believe, based on nothing.

[awaysidetraveler]

10. You know, I just can't picture a man with such a mixed heritage being anything but accepting

of other's rights. It just doesn't fit the rest of the profile of the man.

[CyberPieHole]

158. It fits the profile of a man who will pander to Gay hating bigots...

and who is willing to throw them under the bus for votes from bible thumpers. But, I am sure you already know that and wish to appear ignorant of those facts. Obama's "hopes and dreams" for America DON'T INCLUDE THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY.

[Jamastiene]

9. It certainly won't change favorably for us at all.

It will only get worse for us. He's a homophobe in sheep's clothing.

[awaysidetraveler]

17. No way, I flat out don't believe that. It just runs too contrary to everything he's said.

In his latest speech, he spoke directly in affirmation of gay rights.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/m/f3a102052d7b6652/S3XQCX/

[mondo joe]

20. Nothing personal, but you sound naive about political campaigns.

I have a hard time believing Obama is courting anti gay bigots only to turn on them later.

[awaysidetraveler]

28. So let me get this strait: you see an African-American president as a detriment to civil rights?

In his latest speech, he spoke directly in affirmation of gay rights.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/m/f3a102052d7b6652/S3XQCX/

I would think that you'd be happy to know that Obama's on your side. Why can't you picture it?

[Ediacara]

32. His words and actions are so far removed from eachother I have a hard time believing they're...

...coming from the same person.

[awaysidetraveler]

37. What actions are you referring to? I mean, he hired a singer and was endorsed by a bad preacher.

And that preacher had bad ideas about homosexuality, in specific.
I still don't get it.

[Ediacara]

41. He hired a singer that is a very vocal bigot

And allowed that singer to rant about how evil homosexuality is on his behalf. What about that don't you understand?

[awaysidetraveler]

88. He walked off of the stage--that's what he did. Obama supports gay marraige.

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/2007/08/09/video-barack-obama-rewind/

Isn't that what you're after?

[Bluebear]

116. Obama does ***NOT*** support gay marriage.

[awaysidetraveler]

121. Obama does support legal civil unions which are in all legal respects identical to marraiges.

[Bluebear]

123. No, they are NOT "identical", please don't promote untruths.

[awaysidetraveler]

130. Okay, to be specific they're legally identical: one does in the law what the other does.

That's all the law has the power to change. Law cannot change religion in America.

[mondo joe]

151. Another stupid fucking error on your part. Civil marriage is not religion.

Never was.

Try again.

[awaysidetraveler]

153. Civil unions would act like marraiges in all respects save the religious ones.

Hillary boy, the donuts are calling you.

[mondo joe]

155. Kiddo, you're still fucking wrong on the facts of the matter.

Civil Unions would still be separate from Civil Marriage. It has nothing to do with religion or trying to control religion.

Looks like you're taking lessons from McClurkin.

[readmoreoften]

129. He also says the decision belongs in "the states" just like the racists did during Jim Crow.

Just like the anti-choice crowd does now...

Send it to the "states" so that no one has rights anywhere but New Jersey and Massachusetts and gay people in Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Louisiana, Georgia, South Carolina, Wyoming, Alaska, Arizona, Virginia, and God-Knows-Where-Else can all live under DOMAs so restrictive that our houses are requisitioned by the state when we pass.

If something is RIGHT it is RIGHT. A civil RIGHT is not a matter of OPINION to be debated upon by bigoted localities.

Oh, but, then again, Obama doesn't think LGBT rights are civil rights.

[awaysidetraveler]

133. First of all, your cause has and will have a stronger foothold in the states first.

And that's why he's advocating it that way. No president can unilaterally declare
civil unions as a freedom. It will require a consensus of opinion to be reached in other states first.

Obama has spoken out about LGBT rights for over twenty years.
You guys have taken this thing way, way too far.

[Ediacara]

145. What are you talking about? Obama wasn't even at the event he had McClurkin emcee

He knew damn well what he was doing when he hired him, refused to fire him, and then issued a wishy-washy "I disagree with him" statement.

PLUS: that damn Logo debate you keep linking happened BEFORE the McClurkin incident.

First, you tell me Obama's a huge friend of gays, next you tell me he has a time machine?

[awaysidetraveler]

148. DinoBoy, where are you getting your information?

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/obama-criticized-over-singer/

[Ediacara]

159. On what planet does October 2007 come before August 2007?

And on what planet does anything in that article contradict what I said?

[mondo joe]

42. No. He gave a free platform to an "ex gay" to preach about homosexuality.

Don't diminish what he really did.

In addition to being endorsed by the "bad preacher" he is using the "bad preacher" and working with him.

[awaysidetraveler]

93. No, he walked off of a platform and a moron took the stage--not the same.

[mondo joe]

97. Incorrect. He gave the bigot the time to talk, despite being warned by gays

and despite pleas to not give voice to this hate monger.

[awaysidetraveler]

101. Check your facts: he left the stage.

[mondo joe]

103. McClurkin was the emcee. Do you know what that means?

[awaysidetraveler]

110. Obama's cool with gay marraige: know what that means?

[mondo joe]

114. he is actually explicitly against same sex marriage.

you're wrong again.

[awaysidetraveler]

119. Legal civil unions, which are in all legal respects identical to marraiges.

[mondo joe]

136. Kid, you're wrong about almost everything.

McClurkin wasn't just a singer, he was the MC, meaning he was SUPPOSED to talk.

Obama isn't in favor of same sex marriage no matter how many times you say it.

And he has NO record of action with outcome for gays.

And now he's pals with Bush's anti gay spiritual advisor.

You say he's got my back - while he's back there he can kiss my ass.

[awaysidetraveler]

140. Well, at least you're being honest about what you really want.

[mondo joe]

33. I don't judge based on ethnicity. I'm just telling you that no matter what

Obama's words, his actions don't always hold up, and sometimes fail grievously.

I don't know what makes you think I would assume an African American would be better on gay equality than anyone else.

[awaysidetraveler]

39. Well okay, not every African-American, but one that's worked in civil rights for twenty years.

That's what Obama's done. That's always been his job, since Harvard.

[mondo joe]

40. What has he worked on for equality for gays?

Please be specific. Thanks.

[awaysidetraveler]

49. Okay, try this.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Civil_Rights.htm

[mondo joe]

52. Those are statements. You said he's WORKED on civil rights and I'm asking

what, specific to gays, he has WORKED ON.

I don't need more platitudes, thanks.

[awaysidetraveler]

67. He's worked in reforming the attitudes of those in his church about gays, for one.

Here's a bunch more. I didn't realize exactly how wrong you were at first, but you are very, very wrong.

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/2007/08/09/video-barack-obama-rewind/

This is probably why my gay cousin introduced me to Obama.

[mondo joe]

71. Sorry, but sending more bigots as your face to say yet more bigoted things isn't

reforming anyone.

[awaysidetraveler]

96. The issue is gay marraige this year, right? I mean, isn't that one of the rights we're looking for?

That's what Obama wants.

[mondo joe]

98. You're so fucking wrong. Obama is against same sex marriage.

And WORDS are not ACTIONS with RESULTS.

[awaysidetraveler]

111. 20 years in the service, but don't worry: gay marraige will be everyone's right.

[Ediacara]

72. He certainly didn't seem to take his own advice

ALL THE WORDS IN THE WORLD AMOUNT TO NOTHING IF HE REPEATEDLY GIVES A STAGE TO VICIOUS BIGOTED HATE SPEECH.

[Ediacara]

24. That's where Obama's words and actions have something of a major disconnect

[Jamastiene]

44. Words words words.

Words mean nothing to me. Actions speak louder than words and his actions show me things will be worse for the GLBTQ community, not better.

[awaysidetraveler]

56. You know, twenty years of working for civil rights for everyone is doing something.

Obama's got your back.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Civil_Rights.htm

[mondo joe]

63. You keep repeating that but fail to show real work beyond the words.

And it's becoming increasingly evident that you can't show the work because it's not there.

[awaysidetraveler]

70. You should be convinced, here's more proof.

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/2007/08/09/video-barack-obama-rewind/

[mondo joe]

76. That's more words, not proof. If John Edwards used a KKK member as

his spokesperson to reach out to white southerners, would you be cool with it?

[awaysidetraveler]

91. Would you be okay with gay marraige? That's what Obama's about.

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/2007/08/09/video-barack-obama-rewind/

[mondo joe]

95. More words. I ask for work with results. You have none to give me.

Obama has done none.

[awaysidetraveler]

108. Prove to me that he's done harm. Obama's done none.

McClurkin, for all your offense taken, is also free to disagree with you
about the nature of his own sexuality and religion.

Obama didn't take sides on the issue: he left that for you.

Obama did take sides on gay marraige: he's for it.

[CyberPieHole]

3. Nothing will change for the LGBTQ community...they will be allowed to "pray away the gay"...

He might appoint his mentor Jeremiah Wright to a cabinet post and maybe the two together will foist a Louis Farrakhan day and attack Israel...that's what would happen if BH Obama were to be President.

[DrFunkenstein]

5. How is The Weather Around Saturn?

You really left the planet awhile ago. But do drop us a letter from time to time.

[CyberPieHole]

You tell me, Funk.

You should know.:hi:

[karlrschneider]

8. There is zero chance of him being elected.

None whatsoever.

[awaysidetraveler]

12. So you disagree with the polls, which show he is the most electable candidate out there?

[awaysidetraveler]

14. But don't answer that last one. Answer the first question: what change does he represent?

[karlrschneider]

26. There is no "answer" to your non-question. It is 100% oxymoronic.

...

[awaysidetraveler]

48. If he represents no change to you, then why are you so angry?

Why bother answering at all?

[karlrschneider]

57. I'm not angry at all, I just don't think your "question" makes any sense.

:eyes:

[awaysidetraveler]

62. What change in civil rights would an Obama presidency represent to you?

It's a question. There's nothing illogical or incongruent about the question.
But it does require you to visualize the possibility.

[karlrschneider]

81. To me personally, none whatsoever. I can't speak for anyone else.

okay?

[awaysidetraveler]

113. Yeah, that's fine. Wait a minute though....

Really, you can't imagine what that might mean to your community? You can't visualize that?
Why not?

[karlrschneider]

162. Because my Magic Eight-Ball is in the shop.

:eyes:

[trayfoot]

11. I have an extremely hard time believing

that Obama will EVER become President. I am equally skeptical about Hillary becoming President.

[awaysidetraveler]

16. Well, you'll have to put aside that doubt for a moment, if you want to answer the question.

[pampango]

13. Perhaps you should ask how the civil right movement as it pertains to African Americans

will change, since few here are addressing that.

[awaysidetraveler]

15. I would also like to know that, though I'm white and think the question matters for us as well.

[KennedyGuy]

18. Umm..Hillary will enact change when she is inaugurated?

[awaysidetraveler]

21. Just picture the change Obama would represent... just for a moment... picture it.

[KennedyGuy]

23. I can..thats why I support Hillary..

[karlrschneider]

27. It would be somewhere between zero and horrific.

...

[awaysidetraveler]

58. Who would it be zero for? Who would it be horrific for?

Let me know when you're ready to imagine something better.

[mondo joe]

46. I see it now...I see... yet more religious bigots having the president's ear....

oh yuck.

[awaysidetraveler]

54. So for you, an Obama presidency is a vision of religious bigotry?

[mondo joe]

60. No. Obama's willingness to kiss the sell out gays for the votes of religious bigots

is.

[awaysidetraveler]

73. Again, more proof.

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/2007/08/09/video-barack-obama-rewind/

[mondo joe]

82. You have seriously confused "rhetoric" with "proof". It's childish.

Please stop.

[awaysidetraveler]

84. Prove to me that he's done harm to your community by trying to calm people who hate you.

Prove to me that he's done harm to your community.

He's done no harm.

He's trying to support your rights.

That's a credit to him.

[mondo joe]

89. Calming people who hate me by sending an envoy to agree with them I can do without.

I'll take this as your surrender that you can't provide ANY work he has actually done for the LGBT community.

[awaysidetraveler]

118. You've never answered my question on the harm Obama's done, but I'll show you the work he's done.

He's proposed civil unions for gays, which are in all legal ways identical with marraige.
That's something he's done, and it's something he intends to support as president.

He's fought Keyes and others who are against civil unions, and who seek to assume that lesbians
and gays should not have the right to adopt. He's demanded proof from them that gays and lesbians
are not fit parents, just like I am demanding proof from you now that Obama has done
you harm.

And that's not mentioning the work that he's done on behalf of HIV and Aids victims of all
sexualities and races in Illinois.

In short, he's done a great deal more than most people have.

In short, he's got your back.

[awaysidetraveler]

19. Why aren't I getting an answer to this question? Please, tell it from your point of view.

What does Obama's vision mean to you?

[Ediacara]

43. Just because you're not getting answers you want to hear, doesn't mean you're not getting answers

[awaysidetraveler]

51. Okay DinoBoy, take a look at this. This is something he's doing behind your back.

He's doing it in churches with people who you wouldn't know.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Civil_Rights.htm

And, he's backing you up....

[NMMNG]

68. .....

http://www.kingdombuilders.com/templates/cuskingdombuilders/details.asp?id=23260&PID=236324">This


Full story

[ShortnFiery]

22. The Nation will change by it's very nature. People will not be able to crack racist jokes/innuendos

in the Oval Office (see LBJ and Nixon).

It WILL be transformational but not in a formal sense. We will see people "opening their minds" because they will BE FORCED TO ... people of color and women ACTUALLY holding high office has exponentially helped bridge both ethnic and gender gaps. :-) :thumbsup:

[awaysidetraveler]

25. I agree. I'm looking forward to my students having a role model that they can identify with,

and I'm looking forward to seeing them accept the possibility of their own excellence.

[robbedvoter]

29. I dunno - he "wasn't that invested in the fights of the 60s and 70s..." so...

Anyone's guess.

[awaysidetraveler]

34. He was born in 1962, so he couldn't have been that invested in the 60's and 70's

After all, he would have been eighteen in 1980. That would make him a civil rights leader for a new era.
What does that mean to you? How do you envision positive change in our time for civil rights?

[Bluebear]

117. I'm STILL invested in the 60's and I am almost the same age as Obama

Civil rights, evolving gay rights, I am *not* through with the "fights of the 60's" that Obama implies are irrelevant.

[awaysidetraveler]

125. You're coming in on this a little late Bluebear, but Obama's still on your side.

And you're going to have to back it up with more than McClurkin or that freaky preacher,
if you want to say that he's against the fights of the sixties. That wasn't what he meant.

[Bluebear]

126. Sorry, hiring McClurkin to host a campaign event does NOT put Obama "on my side"

[awaysidetraveler]

135. Here's a debate transcript showing where Obama supported gay and lesbian adoption & civil unions.

http://www.renewamerica.us/archives/media/debates/04_10_21debate2.htm

[Bluebear]

138. Oh, sorry, 4 years old. McClurkin, 3 months ago.

beliefs change.

[awaysidetraveler]

147. This whole thing is way out of proportion with reality. You guys really would throw the baby out

with the bathwater, here.

He's for civil unions which act in all ways like marraiges do.
He's for lesbian and gay adoption rights.
He's been an activist for over twenty years, working for civil rights and on HIV health issues.
And you're willing to throw him out for hiring a famous gospel singer?

Gay activists cornered Obama and tried to put him in a position
where he would have to say no to either religion or civil rights.

In a fit of common sense, Obama left the situation.
McClurkin and others then said what they wanted to say,
which was--when one considers it--an incredibly dumb message.
Obama then strongly disagreed with what McClurkin said.

That's what's going on Bluebear.
Baby--bathwater.

[lurky]

36. I'm sure there would be conflicts between Obama

and the black civil rights establishment. I'm sure he would make decisions that people in the civil rights movement disagree with, and that they would criticize him for those decisions. People like Sharpton and Jackson largely advocate for the poor and disenfranchised, and I'm confident they would continue to do so. It would certainly shatter the illusion that black people are some kind of monolithic block, like the Borg or something.

[awaysidetraveler]

53. Yeah, it would do that as well. I think it would destroy many illusions.

And I look forward to not having to see those illusions all the time.

[madrchsod]

47. what civil rights movement?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

59. Chickens are better counted after they are hatched.

Just sayin'...ya know?

[awaysidetraveler]

78. Yeah, but these eggs are rattling around and something's going on in there.

I want to know what you think it is.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

79. I think it's something other than...

"When Obama becomes our next president."

He might, he might not. His wife has said that if it doesn't happen in 2008, it will never happen. So I'm not prepared to accept any "guarantee" of Obama being our next president as the result of the 2008 election.

[messiah]

65. What is this false change you are talking about?

I don't care if a woman or a black man becomes the president.
Issues should be the only thing that counts in elections.

[awaysidetraveler]

85. Isn't civil rights an issue? Or is that only an illusion?

[Ravy]

66. It will be 16-20 years older than it is right now. That is how it will change. nt

[Kucinich4America]

75. IF Obama becomes President, I hope there is a new civil rights movement

One that includes ALL Americans. Same if Edwards becomes President.

If Hillary becomes President, we'll be lucky to keep what little rights we have left. :(

[awaysidetraveler]

86. Yeah, I'd like to see that new civil rights movement as well.

What do you think it will be like?

[BenDavid]

105. That thought has never crossed my mind..Maybe 2016

[awaysidetraveler]

112. Try a new idea.

[readmoreoften]

120. There's no such thing as a pro-Reagan civil rights movement.

He'll be as useful to African-Americans throughout the US as Mayor Nagel has been to African-Americans in New Orleans.

There is no new "civil rights movement" without an economic move to the left.

[awaysidetraveler]

137. As long as you're looking up Obama's racist, Reagan-loving past, why don't you check this out?

A transcript showing where he supported gay and lesbian adoption and civil unions.

http://www.renewamerica.us/archives/media/debates/04_10_21debate2.htm

[Bluebear]

122. Christian prayer pamphlets required at women's clinics?

[readmoreoften]

132. Add "Christian Rights" to the Civil Rights movement...

Align MLK's legacy with the Evangelical Right. Promote faith-based funding as a right. Throw some bone to LGBT people (he'll make a comment that "all Americans should be embraced" or some shit) and then help Republicans pass laws to ensure that the "faithful" will be permitted to "act according to their views in the workplace" (translation: pray over LGBT coworkers and harrass them, fire LGBT employees)

You get the idea.

[awaysidetraveler]

139. LGBT bones to throw, like legal civil-unions and adoption rights?

I'm starting to think that you guys are more afraid of homophobes,
than homophobes are afraid of you.

Those are my words, though, not Obama's.

Obama's got your back, even if you don't believe it.

[mondo joe]

141. You confused with "turned his back" with "got your back". NT

[awaysidetraveler]

152. Mondo, go back to your little Hillary room, they're passing out the donuts and the lobbying money.

And you won't have to worry about reality at all over there.

[mondo joe]

154. HAHAHAHAHAHA From no argument to ad hominem argument. You're fast -

just in the wrong direction.

[readmoreoften]

160. Of course we're more afraid of homophobes. They're the ones who beat us to death,

Obama has publicly aligned himself with ex-gay spokespersons (McClurkin and Caldwell) who are aligned with Exodus International and Exodus International is aligned with organizations like this:

http://www.abchurch.org/our-staff/the-senior-pastor.htm...
http://watchmenonthewalls.com/?region=us
http://watchmenonthewalls.com/?region=lv

Wikipedia:

FBI Complaint

On 21 March 2007, Seattle attorney Dave Coffman filed a complaint with the FBI asking them to investigate whether or not Pastor Hutcherson violated federal law by claiming to be a White House "Special Envoy" on a recent trip to Latvia. Hutcherson claims his work and trip were sanctioned by the Bush White House. The trip was the centerepiece of a four-day anti-gay "crisis conference" held in Latvia.

Hutcherson claims that the director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Jay Hein appointed him as a "special envoy" for the Latvia trip, where he appeared with Scott Lively, an opponent of gay civil rights and alleged Holocaust denier who claims that, despite being targeted themselves, homosexuals were the cause of the Holocaust.

(High Level Right-Wing Support for Lively's "The Pink Swastika" now in it's 4th edition--a complete anti-academic, ahistorical hachet job:)

http://www.abidingtruth.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/htm...

*************

So please stop the pollyanna nonsense. You can't possibly have any real knowledge of what your candidate is going to do. He sure as shit ain't doing nothing for us now. I see no reason to see why there will be some grandiose transformation once he wins.

[varelse]

131. My point of view on civil rights won't change

no matter who is in office.

I believe in equal protection under the law of all civil rights for all Americans. Where possible, I'll support that belief with direct action, free speech, and political actions (such as voting and donating to election campaigns).

And above that, I believe that there are rights all humans are born with, that we are all equally entitled to those rights from birth, that they can not be taken away from us by any government or law - only protected and recognized or disdained, abused, and disparaged, depending on the goverment we empower.

[awaysidetraveler]

134. An excellent reply, and it's interesting. So will an Obama presidency change nothing?

[varelse]

146. thank you - but the reply was to this question only:

"how will your point of view change" and my honest answer is "not at all". But that is just me.

I would not presume to predict what sort of global changes in our society would follow the upcoming Presidential election. No matter who is elected, things will certainly change - that's a safe prediction to make and a 'given'. I'd be happy to put forth the idea that things are bound to improve after this general election, at least for a short time - but the path to true recognition and equal protection of all human rights is a long and treacherous one, made even more difficult by what we are all doing to our home planet, and I don't expect the human race to reach the end of that path in my lifetime. I daresay it will not be over when those being born now are old - of course I hope to be wrong about that.

[awaysidetraveler]

150. I like your style.

[joeybee12]

144. Now, here's the problem...you assume he's going to win..

...and Obama often talks about WHEN he will be president.

Nothing will change IF he gets in. It's all about Barak for him, his concern for others has never come through in anything he has done or supposedly fought for.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

161. As Roseanne Barr said: I pray for the speedy failure of his divisive campaign

Right on Rosie, we're praying with you.