Is what Hillary's Campaign did tonight re Florida ETHICAL?

[Sensitivity]

It seems to violate the spirit, if not the form, of the commitments made to the party.

It seems to the results of a position of name recognition and assumed "inevitablility" to falsely
construe a "campaign victory" and massively project this falsehood to calculatedly manipulate the overall campaign dynamics.

Doesn't this amount to the definition of campaign slease?
Do Democrats care anymore about ethics?

[Ravy]

1. She didn't campaign for the primary here. nt

[MH1]

85. Actually she did.

By calling for FL delegates to be seated at the convention, in the days just before the vote, she knew she would get free positive press in FL.

It may not have violated the letter of the agreement so some who can recognize reality when it slaps them in the face, might still make the statement you did. But the fact is she DID "campaign for the Florida primary."

[LVjinx]

2. Explain

How is it unethical? She did win in Florida. Whether or not there are delegates at stake is irrelevant. Did the pledge control candidate actions AFTER the primary also? Your finding it unethical, I think, suggests more about where your loyalties lie than to her actual behavior.

[ArfDogMNO]

3. seems obvious that her call

to have the FL delegates seated BEFORE the the primary election on sunday was obviously intended to influence florida voters today. If she wanted to avoid the appearance of same, she could have waited until after the results were in to make this comment.

"MIKE GLOVER | THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
8:40 PM EST, January 27, 2008

SARASOTA - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she was going to Florida to assure Democrats that "their voices are heard" and to underscore her commitment to seeing the state's delegation seated at the national convention."

[rodeodance]

37. Obama said the same thing last Nov--he just forgot he said it.

[ArfDogMNO]

39. If so she should pull film of it and distribute it

That said, saying it 2 days before the primary vs. 2 months+ is a bit different in terms of expected voter impact. Oddly, she knew she would win florida anyway I assume.

[rodeodance]

56. it was publish in a FL newspaper when he was there for his fundraiser.

[Sensitivity]

6. She is creating the false impression of a campaign win, when none was allowed

The party and all candidates agreed to nullify the primary. Then she make a point of being very public
before and after the primary afirming it.

Dishonesty is dishonesty regardless of how it is cloaked.

[mondo joe]

9. It's still a win. That there was no campaign is not relevant.

[Maven]

12. There was a grassroots effort by supporters of each candidate within the state

CNN reported on it earlier today.

[Lucinda]

20. Plus... I heard that Florida has actually joined the rest of the country now

and watches moving pictures on boxes in various rooms of their homes.
I think it's called TV.
And it gets something called "The News" on it.
:D

[1corona4u]

30. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAH hahahahahahahahaha

Hey, I got me some 5 of them there things...une of em's real big....and it's flat....

[CreekDog]

52. yeah but they turn them off before bedtime...5pm

:rofl:

[NMMNG]

40. You don't say....

They're really moving up in the world, ain't they? :o


Next thing you know they'll have access to the Intertubes down there. :web:

[rodeodance]

43. YES THEY DID, YES THEY DID.

[rodeodance]

you missed the AP headline saying: Clinton won. get used to it.

[rodeodance]

29. tell that to the people who voted for her tonight. I really do not think they will look upon her win

as a lose. that would be silly.

[MH1]

87. You are right, Sensitivity.

It doesn't take a perceptive person to realize it, but thank you for stating it loud and clear on a bully-infested message board.

[ShortnFiery]

4. Every candidate except HRC respected the DNC's rules enough to not jet in ...

"the moment after" the polls closed, i.e, eke by the letter of the pledge that they signed. It just proves, IMO, how FAR HRC and her Clintonian DLC "dirty tricks" machine are willing to go. They don't care if it's unethical because it will help them win the nomination.

IMO, to the Clintonian DLC, WINNING IS EVERYTHING. :thumbsdown:

[mondo joe]

11. The rules don't prohibit anything she did. Of course the losers aren't jetting in.

Why would they?

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

22. oh that was GREAT!! ha ha

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. PWNED

~

[Adelante]

74. Did Hillary jet in to Michigan for a victory party?

I don't remember that happening.

[mondo joe]

81. I don't know. But since you - not I - am worried about it, go do your research.

[Maven]

14. Obama would have spoken or given a statement if he had won.

Come on now.

[ShortnFiery]

18. I honestly believe that Obama may have made "a statement" but he would NOT "jet in" for ...

a rally. That ACT rated a 10 on the smarmy opportunistic meter. :shrug:

[Quixote1818]

23. It looked like an episode of 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire'

and Hillary just won the Million. :eyes:

[Maven]

31. After the Oprah show and the Kennedy endorsement extravaganza?

Nah. He'd never take the opportunity to grab the spotlight.

[1corona4u]

35. You're just jealous....

plain and simple.

[rodeodance]

38. envy does strange things to folks--

[UALRBSofL]

47. I suppose jetting in

is unethical but it's ok for the candidates to give a victory speech. Had Obama won, he would have given a victory speech and it would be fine but to jet in to give the speech is unethical.

[rodeodance]

49. i finally get it--it's the JET that is unethical--

[mondo joe]

83. Had Obama won, Oprah would have flown him in on her private jet and put on a fireworks display.

:eyes:

[rodeodance]

17. yeah, so unetical to jet in to thank her workers/surpporters. A thank you by Obama in peson

might be more meaningful to his supporters. tsk tsk

[Beausoir]

34. Obama campaigned in Florida. You need to use more smileys in your posts.

Obama got more than a half a million people to vote for him. And yet here you are, diminishing those people just because your guy didn't win.

How charming.

[VotesForWomen]

55. uh, there were no such rules. is lying an obama supporter trait? nt

[QC]

5. Yes. It is unethical to oppose the Son of God.

How dare she?

[ShortnFiery]

8. Bill Clinton wants you to stop talking about HIM (Son of God). He's keeping a low profile.

;)

[tammywammy]

7. It was fine having a rally

It was after the vote, so it wasn't campaigning. Nothing unethical about it at all. And while she didn't get any delegates, she did win.

[rodeodance]

46. Thank you. so wonderful to see a voice of sanity.

[HopeforChange]

10. Sneaky, Deceptive and Manipulative

[rodeodance]

24. Back to yah!!

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. Slander is protected speech during a political campaign. So what's

all this bullshit about campaign ethics anyway? Political campaigns aren't about ethics. "Ethics!" is the battle cry of a lost campaign.

[Sensitivity]

21. Hillary could loose to McCain just because she is seen as corrupt or

corrupted by her life in politics. Some people just won't come out for someone
they personally despise regardless of their policy positions.

[The_Casual_Observer]

25. That's what the Green party is for.

[rodeodance]

33. well, seems to me it is you that keeps spreading crap like that around.

[Sensitivity]

36. Nice FALSEHOOD. I avoided supporting any candidate and prefered a Gore draft.

[rodeodance]

42. the crap I was referring to is in your previous post.

[1corona4u]

41. Yeah, and an asteroid is closely passing the earth this week, so we could all die....

should we all worry about that too? Or the satellite that is about to crash into earth? HUH? Should we...

[rodeodance]

51. but it flew by last night and nothing happened. all that instilling of FEAR for naught.

[druken7]

15. yes, a win is a win and in politics you should never downplay your accomplishments

Hillary drubbed Obama tonight, the results are reflective of something

[Sensitivity]

16. The ETHICAL perversity of the Clinton campaign will cause Carter to speak out

even thought he would prefer a candidate like Gore.
Some will say "it's politics" others will see it as wrong.

[rodeodance]

26. jump the shark much??

[rodeodance]

19. to answer your two questions: NO and NO

Doesn't this amount to the definition of campaign slease?
Do Democrats care anymore about ethics?

[Stephanie]

27. She's desperate. The prize is slipping through her fingers.

So she's turned to the Rove playbook, entitled, By Any Means Necessary.

[rodeodance]

45. oh, there you go with that 'desperate' thingy again-and again and again!!

[joshcryer]

28. She just went there to reassure FL voters that she would seat their delegates when she won.

What's wrong with that? Not breaking any rules. She probably got more bad media from it than anything.

[Sensitivity]

32. There has been a massive email campaign presenting all

types of demographics to promote this as a campaign victory.
This was NOT just a thank you. If it was it would have been fine.

[1corona4u]

44. Big fricken deal.

Yawwwwnnnn....

[rodeodance]

53. CLINTON HAS THE BIG MO-AFTER HER FLORIDA WIN GOING INTO SUPER TUESDAY

[rodeodance]

48. and don't forget that obama said the same thing last Nov; then flipped flopped and said NO a few day

s ago.

[writes3000]

50. She's absolutely taking advantage of a murky situation

I wouldn't call it unethical though. It does tell me that she feels like she needs every advantage she can muster. And she's probably right.

I support Obama but I like Hillary. I'm glad this will extend the discussion about who will be the nominee.

[VotesForWomen]

54. what did she do? she celebrated getting the most votes in a very important state. so what?

[rodeodance]

59. and IP says that unethical. and she used a jet to jet in to say thank you.

[MonkeyFunk]

57. What did she do?

besides win?

[Sensitivity]

61. Hillary: "I just won a big victory in Florida" -- clearly violates the spirit of

the pledge to remove Florida from the nomination campaign.
She speaks brazenly with no apparent awareness of the dishonesty.

[MonkeyFunk]

62. But there was no pledge

to remove Florida from the nomination process.

Don't make shit up.

She pledged not to campaign in Florida. She held to that pledge. Obama didn't, though.

[pampango]

68. I thought she and the others agreed not to campaign in or "participate in"

the primaries in Michigan and Florida. Only the most partisan would claim that any of them "campaigned" in either state.

Apparently, Edwards and Obama defined "participate in" more restrictively than Hillary. They apparently thought it meant removing your name from the ballot, if possible. The deadline for this had not passed in Michigan so they did withdraw there. Hillary defined "participate in" differently and left her name on the ballot. Was she parsing words or ignoring the agreement?

Can you "win" something that you don't "participate" in? Does she want to apportion delegates based on primary results that no one "participated in"? We do need to seat the delegates from the two states. The tougher question is how you do this in a way that strengthens the party without advantaging one candidate or another.

[joshcryer]

67. Is lying second nature to people like you?

Seriously. That's a boldfaced lie right there.

[rodeodance]

58. A change of heart by Obama who once indicated he would "do what's right by Florida voters."

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

Published: September 30, 2007


http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

Obama Vows To 'Do What's Right'


By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI The Tampa Tribune


TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.
………….

"This wasn't planned," Sanchez said of the brief press availability. "He was going to the car, and he just went across the street for a moment."

According to Sanchez and Tom Scarritt, Obama was asked during the event about making sure Floridians have a role in the nomination, despite the DNC sanctions and the pledge. Scarritt said Obama responded that he'll "do what's right by Florida voters."

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking
………

[mtnester]

64. I was waiting for this post...and noticed NO ONE from the Obama camp

touched it.

So unexpected.

[Radical Activist]

60. It reinforces what people don't like about her.

That she doesn't stand by her convictions. That she isn't trustworthy. That she'll do or say anything to get elected. That she has no solid principles or moral compass that she will stick to if it gets in the way of her ambition.

[springhill]

63. Bla bla bla bla bla............

I think people have been brainwashed concerning Hillary and the "she will do anything" to get elected spin the media would like everyone to believe. She is not my choice for president, and neither is Obama. However, they are labeling her just as they did Al Gore in 2000. Is there anyone on this board who doesn't get that?

[Radical Activist]

95. Whether its fair or not

that is the public perception of her. Doing something like this that reinforces the worst perceptions about her was a stupid move.

[Yossariant]

65. Not if she bought TV ads shown in Florida

Totally unethical, to say the least.

OOOPS!

That was Obama

[robbedvoter]

66. You mean, showing respect to voters we'll need in the GE? Ethical AND smart

I'd say more ethical that "Screw voters - I'm only counting delegates" canpaign slogan of other candidate. Who had ads on TV AND flyers on the ground.
And MSM cheerleading for him non-stop. In case you didn't know that, they have TV in Florida (MSNBC et al), internet and even newspapers.

[moondust]

69. Billary is not a team player.

They'll do ANYTHING to chalk up a win for themselves including condoning the thuggish, arrogant behavior of FL and MI. Just like George Bush, the rules don't apply to them.

[Perry Logan]

70. You lost. Get over it.

[ShortnFiery]

90. Agreed. Their Machivellian DLC Smear machine rivals Karl Rove's ... in fact, he's taking notes!

:crazy: :(

[Nimrod2005]

72. Nope not ethical...Very very low

[DesEtoiles]

73. no

[DesEtoiles]

75. it's Hillary - she doesn't let ethics hold her back

[DangerDave921]

76. WHy why why

Why even bother to ask if something is ethical when Hillary is involved? This is politics, man! The ends justify the means. Period. No quarter shall be given to insignificant things like ethics and decency and honesty.

[glowing]

77. The only person who kept the commitment was Edwards..

Obama and Clinton are liars... And that should tell you a lot.. they will say one thing, and do another once elected...

[glowing]

78. The only person who kept the commitment was Edwards..

Obama and Clinton are liars... And that should tell you a lot.. they will say one thing, and do another once elected...

[dchill]

79. The only unethical part of this...

is that she announced her "victory party" before the polls closed. Other than that, it's just a seemingly desperate attempt to claim a "bounce" from a pseudo-primary.

[thoughtcrime1984]

80. I'm tired of her crap

It's sometimes hard to see the big picture when I see her or her cronies flapping away on TV.

[Suziq]

82. A Win is a Win

Democrats in Florida turned out in record numbers to cast their ballots yesterday. Downplaying a victory - either Clinton's or Obama's, is downplaying democracy in action.

Shame on you folks . . . . .

[jeanmarc]

84. It was a disgusting act

Parading around like she won something AND then insisting that Michigan and Florida should count when no one really contested the states is a disgusting act by a person who lacks grace and the idea of fair play.

Just another reason not to like her.

[mondo joe]

86. Nothing more disgusting than acknowledging and thanking hundreds of thousand of people

for coming out to vote for you.

[jeanmarc]

88. ..

Sure, that's all it was. :eyes:

[mondo joe]

89. If you're disgusted by acknowledging getting the vote out, this might not be the

best party for you.

[jeanmarc]

91. Hillary supporter smugness is quite sad.

I won't be voting for Hillary if she is the candidate.

I'd rather leave that part unchecked. The smugness of Hillary supporters is yet another disgusting display I see here.

[mondo joe]

93. I still don't know why you're disgusted by acknowledging a few hundred thousand voters.

Do you?

[ShortnFiery]

92. Besides, have you not learned?!? If "a Bush" or "a Clinton" does IT, then it's proclaimed

both LEGAL and ETHICAL. To challenge the royal families, is to invite the wrath of their "lock step" supporters. Repeat with me? = "The Clintons do everything above board." You STILL don't think so? Well, just ask "Bubba" - that good ole boy will tell you WHAT "iS" "IS".
:puke: :crazy: :nuke:

[mondo joe]

94. Not tombstoned yet, eh?

Ah well.

[Arugula Latte]

96. Typical Clintonian Bullshit.

They are just making me ill.

[K Gardner]

97. Nothing about the Clintons or their tactics is ethical. Absolutely nothing.