Is it possible for people to put aside the IWR issue

[Donk Yore]

It has been discussed for years now, and nothing is going to change. The candidates have expressed their beliefs and Hillary explained her reason for doing what she did. I am hoping for a healing prior to the next step in the election process. Is it possible?

I am most definitely NOT wanting responses repeating the same old verses that have been repeated more times than the 23rd Psalm, and do not want a flame war to erupt, so please, keep it civil? Thanks all.

I am just wondering if others are ready to put this issue behind us and move forward.

I am. Finally. It took a long while.

[joshcryer]

1. Nope. No one will get over it.

Good luck trying to get people to get over one measly irrelevant vote.

[MadBadger]

3. Measly Irrelevant vote...wow.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[thunder rising]

24. Absolutely, 3943 dead GIs is more than I can forget for a "simple naive" moment

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[maximusveritas]

2. No. It was the biggest vote they've ever had to cast

We cannot put it behind us.

We owe it to those who have died not to do that.

[Joe the Revelator]

4. Hell no, not while people are still dying for the mistake.

[Tweed]

5. No

[ingac70]

6. Some people perhaps...

but putting it aside is forgetting the precarious position that the IWR put the US in financially and diplomatically.

[Levgreee]

7. We're still in Iraq

[ErnestoG]

8. FUCK NO

What a thing for you to say. Why don't we just scuttle an issue that's killed 4,000 Americans and a million Iraqis?

You need to have your mouth washed out with soap for that.

[Donk Yore]

I'm just wanting to move forward

not forget about the past, but accept what has happened, and move forward toward a better life.

Yes, as Wolfie would probably say, I'm a bit naive perhaps.

Thanks for your response, and all the others.

[ErnestoG]

17. I'm not willing to gloss over a war crime, are you?

What if they had done that after WWII and had no Nuremburg trials?

[frylock]

29. or what if they had done that after iran/contra?

oh wait, the husband of the leading candidate already did.

[rodeodance]

50. get this: it is a BUSHCO issue. GOT IT!

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. it's a question of judgement

Obama has it. Hillary doesn't.

[Jai4WKC08]

41. I don't see that he does

Yeah, he was against the war. He didn't have to vote on it. He continues to vote to fund it, which tells me that he's thinking of the politics of the vote, not exercising judgment on whether the war should go on.

He has shown me pretty poor judgment on a bunch of other foreign policy questions.

[rodeodance]

52. Obama: I do not know how I would have voted. I think bush policy is ok (on the war)

[Individualist]

10. Put aside thousands of deaths and disabilities and those yet to come? NO!

[Avalux]

11. No. Donk - do yourself a favor and watch this. Then come back and tell me you can forget it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2cP8

It's not so much the vote; it's how she handled it afterwards and continues to handle it. We already have a president who can't admit he's wrong, I don't want another.

[Donk Yore]

33. Thanks Sparosnare

I watched it to the 8 minute mark, and will finish it later. The Code Pink spokesperson was very eloquent.

Thanks again.

[Avalux]

35. You're welcome.

:hi:

[City Lights]

12. People are still dying because of it, but you want to put it aside and move on.

Sorry.

She's had ample opportunity to admit it was a mistake, but she refuses to do so.

[comradebillyboy]

13. Unlikely to be set aside untill after an nominee

emerges. Obama won't give it up since it works to his advantage.

[BlackVelvet04]

14. Polls show that most already have....

it is not at the top of the list of concerns for America.

[rodeodance]

54. yes, most have.

[sandnsea]

15. "stay the course" Hillary supported the war

It is not just the damn vote, it's her support of the actual war for years.

[ErnestoG]

21. and STILL refuses to apologize for her war vote.

Notice she did it again tonight even when Wolf gave her an opening a mile wide.

[Coexist]

16. it will become a non-issue when she says it was wrong

until then, it will bite her in the butt.

[Perky]

18. Hell no. It is a critical issue of Judgement

[Sonicmedusa]

20. Please!

This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who.

[bigwillq]

22. It is damaging to her

Could hurt her in the GE. I don't think that will be the NO. 1 of the DEM primary so far the "polls" have said No. 1 issue is economy.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

23. Some can and will, but some will not be able to

because they've lost children, spouses, sisters and brothers. IWR is just one of many issues that people care about, and Obama and Hillary do have different perspectives and records. I don't think it's appropriate to dictate to voters what issues they should care about,

[frylock]

25. i'll assume you don't have family in the military..

i guess i'm a little selfish in that i happen to believe that IWR was one the most SIGNIFICANT votes of my 42 fucking years on this rock, but that's how i do.

[Donk Yore]

36. My dad died in the Vietnam War

but you are correct in stating that, as to my knowledge, I don't have any family members in the service. It may indeed cause one to have a different perspective. I'm just looking for knowledge and thoughts from others.

Thanks

[frylock]

39. thank you for your reply..

and i apologize for my being short with you. having someone close over there, be it a friend or family member, tends to make it a little more personal to be sure. however, i believe that i would feel just as strongly even if i didn't have a brother going back over. peace and respect to your father and family for your sacrifice.

[Jai4WKC08]

44. I have a son in the Guard

That's why it's much more important to me who will bring the troops home and not send them back than how she voted, or claims he would have voted, on the IWR.

[frogcycle]

26. I for one respect both of their positions

I can see how she came to the conclusion she did at the time, and I respect those who felt it was playing with fire. Honorable people can reach different conclusions on the same data. The key is that neither was a war-mongering neocon just itching to conquer the world. One makes judgments. JFK made judgments in the Cuban Missile Crisis and they panned out. But one ounce of pressure difference on the Soviet trigger finger, and he'd be remembered (by the few thousand survivors) as the man whose foolhardiness brought on the nuclear holocaust. One ounce of resolve less and he'd be remembered as the last president of the former US, now a soviet satellite.

If he were alive today, I don't think he'd be puffing out his chest bragging about "being right the first time." He'd say he was damned lucky to have threaded the needle.

The issue is what it is; it won't change, and blitzer trying to get her to say she was naive was about as low as it gets. Time to move on.

[unkachuck]

28. no, and would you want to?....

"It has been discussed for years now, and nothing is going to change."

....exactly, if you can't get the big things right in life, more than likely you won't get anything right....you're just a schmuck....

[mmonk]

30. The IWR was a lot about judgment.

While someone that recognizes their mistake and is contrite can be forgiven, it's still a judgment issue that can't be overlooked completely.

[riverwalker]

31. Nope. Never.

Never, ever. I hope it haunts without end.

[Window]

32. No. Never. Nada.

I'm glad you're finally over it. I will never be over it.



Peace:thumbsup:

[stillcool]

34. War is not an

issue that can easily be 'put behind'. We all know what was happening at that time. We all heard Scott Ritter. We all so the protests.

[southern_dem]

37. I gave her a chance

For me it was the deciding issue. They agree on a lot of stuff, but the IWR says a lot about how they would be as President. Yes I was an Edwards supporter and yes he voted for it, but he clearly said it was a mistake and apologized for it. If Senator Clinton would have said that, I probably could vote for her. She did not and Obama's response clinched my vote.

[subsuelo]

38. No. She made the vote and now it could cost Dems the election.

[Jai4WKC08]

40. For me, it's not a matter of "putting it aside"

I don't agree with Hillary's IWR vote. I'm not real happy that she won't renounce it, but I understand how it would be used against her if she did. I wish she would take a stronger leading role in defunding the war, but I don't see that coming from Obama either. And I am very happy with the work she has done on soldier and veterans support issues.

But Hillary's IWR vote is history now. The main thing NOW is who can get the troops home and keep them home by not starting another unnecessary war, or letting things spin out of control such that we will have no choice but to redeploy to the region. I think Hillary is better qualified to accomplish all that, and I think she will assemble a foreign policy team that will be better qualified to help her.

[rodeodance]

I did a long time ago. It was such and angry chip on my heart-dragging me

down, affected everything I said when it came to politics. I am so glad to let it go.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Are you familiar with the term "Never Again?"

[BlackVelvet04]

43. What and give up a chance to be

self-righteous? Never happen.

[Joe the Revelator]

46. Another Hillary supporter belittling the people in the party who fought against this war

Classy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. No

Not while people are dying every day.

[Egnever]

47. Nope not ever

It was totally unforgivable and totally transparent. I never forgave Kerry for it I never forgave Edwards for it and I sure as hell wont forgive Hillary for it, when out of all of them she is the one least wiling to take responsibility for her actions.

[suston96]

49. Uh, no. That may be all one side has to fall back on. nt

[AtomicKitten]

51. Tell that to the grieving families and a devastated Iraq.

No, I will withhold my vote from anyone that gave a green light to this abortion of a war.

[MadHound]

53. Putting a million dead innocents, millions more wounded, and the hemmoraging of our wealth behind us

No, sorry, but that simply can't be done. Hillary's explanation for this is absurd on the face of it. She knew it was a vote for war, yet she went ahead and voted for it, and here we are.

Moving forward is just another polite euphemism for sweeping it under the rug, and I'm sorry but millions of people like myself can't do that.

Hillary made her bed, let her deal with the consequences.

[ShadesOfGrey]

55. I have. Because...

we have absolutely no idea how Obama would have voted had he been a senator at the time. In fact, he admitted so himself. He did give a nice speech against going to war with Iraq, but that does not translate into how he would have VOTED on IWR. At the time, wasn't the popular opinion FOR IWR about 70%?

[AtomicKitten]

57. Obama has very clearly been against the war from the start.

It is disingenuous and flat-out untrue to state otherwise. In fact, that misrepresentation of the truth caused Ted Kennedy to step in to correct the record, yet here you are still spreading the Clinton-fueled smear.

[ShadesOfGrey]

59. What is not true?

I'm not against/for either candidate. I'd gladly take any info to help me in my decision.

[AtomicKitten]

61. Here's a salient point that people keep purposely muddling:

an example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4332123&mesg_id=4333659

[ShadesOfGrey]

62. Hmmm... I never saw that in context. Excellent point! nt

[MyNameGoesHere]

56. No it will not happen, see there were other

co-conspirators that voted the same way. Many of them revered Democratic congressmen and congresswoman, yet it will be Hillary's albatross and the good Democratic members here will make sure that it never leaves her neck. No matter if others conspired to keep funding it, the good members here have a scapegoat. When John Kerry ran there was a small but silent bunch that were vocal on his vote, but they did not attack him relentless as they have done to Hillary. See he used the same old "if i would have known... blah blah blah and it was largely ignored. So dear member, you should really ask yourself if you are being fair, or are you just being mean because this is the only "real" issue that have separated the two leading candidates? You sincerity is appreciated.

[backscatter712]

58. Not after she applauded the surge at GWB's SOTU.

It's one thing if she voted for the IWR, then she apologized for it, and is currently working to end the war.

But she didn't, and she isn't. Her applause when Bush sang the praises of the surge at the State of the Union telegraphed her views on Iraq very clearly.

John Edwards voted for the IWR too, but he at least acknowledges that was a mistake, and now works to end the war. Hillary won't even do that much. Her performance last night did little but rationalizing her vote.

[Nimrod2005]

60. NO...Our country will suffer for a longtime BECAUSE of it!!!

[Jed Dilligan]

63. I can put it behind me enough to vote in the GE

for someone who supported it, but not in the primary.

[GalleryGod]

64. IWR Vote; Levin Amendment; Immigration Wall/Fence Vote

NOPE.