The truth comes out about Obama Kennedy endorsement

[MagsDem]

Turns out Bill and Ted had a big argument about the MLK statement. He thought JFK should have got credit instead of Johnson. Man, the fucking EGOS of politicians. And sorry, but Ted is smoking something if he thinks JFK should get credit. His bro didn't have the balls or the political capital to get it through congress, and he refused to put the hammer down on his own party to get it done. History is VERY clear on that fact from every source that recounts it -- I guess except in Teddy land.

But ain't that something.... it isn't that Ted thinks Obama is so fucking fantastic -- he just got in a pissing contest with Bill. LOL -- what an egotist.

And P.S. - if Obama says, one more time, he didn't vote for the war and Hillary did, without mentioning he wasn't fucking elected at the time and wasn't asked to vote, I think I will take out a frigging billboard to let people know. And Hillary is being way too nice without responding, each and every time, you weren't in a position to vote, and since you have been you have voted the same way I have EVERY TIME.

[Kittycat]

1. No, that only pushed Teddy's hand. It was already in play, it was the timing in question.

[writes3000]

7. Of course.

The idea that Kennedy would make this decision solely based on an argument is beyond silly. Clearly, Teddy and Caroline did lots of soul-searching and thinking before deciding to dedicate themselves to Obama's campaign.

[Texas_Kat]

72. Did they?

and your evidence is.... where?

[jasmine621]

63. I said all along it was a dynastical argument. nt

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

87. maybe it was this: Clinton aid makes crack about assassination

Clinton aid makes crack about assassination

The first was at an event in Dover, N.H., at which Clinton supporter Francine Torge introduced the former first lady saying, "Some people compare one of the other candidates to John F. Kennedy. But he was assassinated. And Lyndon Baines Johnson was the one who actually" signed the civil rights bill into law.

The Kennedy insider says Senator Kennedy was deeply offended that Clinton remained silent and "sat passively by" rather than correcting the record on his slain brother's civil rights record.

Kennedy was also apparently upset that Clinton said on the same day: "Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Ac. It took a president to get it done."

http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2008/01/clinton-aid-makes-crack-about.html

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

90. Hillary's Senate Seat is special, JFK Jr was going to run for it

So Hillary gets the seat, and what does she do? She twists around the legacy of the civil rights movement.

[AX10]

kick

links?

[mac2]

2. I don't care

[ProSense]

3. "His bro didn't have the balls"? WTF? Kennedy endorsed Obama

That will not change!

[MagsDem]

13. Try reading it again....

JFK did not have the balls to push the civil rights bill through congress, nor the political capital. That was because he was very young and inexperienced, and was elected based on a media fairy tale of camelot. Kind of like Obama. :) In fact, almost exactly like Obama.

But in any case, Teddy was mad that the Clinton's credited Johnson with getting it passed (the truth) instead of JFK who wanted it passed, but couldn't get it done.

[bellasgrams]

29. Getting killed kind of got in his way.

[JVS]

38. If you think shitting on the graves of MLK and JFK in order to defend HRC's LBJ comment...

is A-OK, then your logic is FUBAR!

[MagsDem]

47. Sorry, it's the historical truth

[maq-az]

42. JFK, MLK, or LBJ

Nope, it was courageous Woman who had the balls to sit down on the front set of that bus.

[MagsDem]

49. That's very true

But the myths these people believe are purely out of ignorance.

[TriMetFan]

55. Amen to that.

Rosa Parks is one of my boy's hero. He even has a poster of her. He thinks she was one awesome women.

[jasmine621]

65. I really like that. JFK, MLK, and LBJ all played a role in this.

Is't there enough credit to go around. Why would Ted be that small. JFK proposed civil rights legislation and LBJ fought like hell to get it passed. We all know what MLK did. LBJ lost all of his political clout over the civil rights legislation. He called in all his "chips." And he gave JFK credit for his vision and MLK for his work.

[NursesluvHillary]

97. RFK did his part as well

[GoldieAZ49]

43. Bobby Kennedy Civil Rights Leader

[emilyg]

95. *

[MADem]

4. You wouldn't have any sort of cite for that tidbit, perchance?

It sounds logical. And JFK WAS dragging his feet with MLK, make no mistake. LBJ, though, hopped right on it--you can go to the tapes at the LBJ library and hear the two of them talking about it.

[MagsDem]

20. Keith Olberman - can catch the rerun

I'm sure you will enjoy it as much as I did. It makes perfect sense.

[MADem]

33. It totally rings true--and I have to say I am unsurprised.

A bit disappointed in Ted, but I suppose we have to make allowances, as he's old.

I hear from one of his office workers that he's getting an EARFUL from Bay Staters over the endorsement. They don't "need" or "want" his help in making their choice, thanks anyway, Teddy.

Kerry is getting the same feedback, as well, apparently.

[candice]

5. Obama's autobiographical "truths" will be outed by Rove and Co.

[Windy]

6. Hillary's collegues in the senate had the same information and MANY voted no.

Hillary made a mistake. She used poor judgment. She looked at the same data that all other senators did. She chose to vote Yes...many chose no.

and it is a very good point that the title of the measure voted on was:


Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

for her to say that she wasn't voting to use force is ridiculous.

[suston96]

44. Many voted no? How many? 77 voted yes. 28 Democrats - do the math....

[kerry-is-my-prez]

8. The Kennedy Foundation brought over Obama's father from Kenya also....

and Teddy has been sort of a mentor to Barak - that doesn't hurt either.

[ecstatic]

9. Is all this bitterness necessary? Tonight is a happy night

Selections aren't until Tuesday. Relax.

[MagsDem]

18. Dear Truth hurts a lot.....

er, um, the truth does hurt a lot.

[Occam Bandage]

10. Cite? Or is this news report courtesy of your ass?

[MagsDem]

16. Keith Olberman - I'm sure you can catch the rerun

[Occam Bandage]

27. So one anonymous source said that was part of the decision. Well, I'm convinced.

[MagsDem]

51. You've apparently never met Ted Kennedy - lol

[tabatha]

11. I think this is crap.

Provide a source.

[MagsDem]

14. Keith Olberman - I'm sure you can catch the rerun

[Maven]

21. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4311626

[writes3000]

22. The commentator never said that...

Kennedy's call with Bill was the sole reason for Ted's endorsement. He did say that Kennedy's angry tone at the Barack/Caroline event was probably fueled by the argument with Bill. The implied message was that Kennedy was supporting Barack in the first place - that's why he was calling Bill.

[MagsDem]

35. LOL -- bullshit

Yes, Teddy called him, because he was pissed, and he wanted to let Bill know he was going to kneecap Hillary as a result. Egos!

[writes3000]

52. Your choice of words reveals the "quality" of your argument.

[MagsDem]

66. What, you think no one in politics says "bullshit"?

And I'm the one that doesn't know "real" politics?! LOL! Have a nice evening.

[Bolo Boffin]

12. Obama is on record at the time saying that he agreed with Durbin

and wouldn't have voted for the AOF bill.

[MagsDem]

15. Who cares, he didn't have to....

And based on his record in the state senate, and the US senate, it's pretty clear he would have ducked it instead of voting one way or the other.

[Bolo Boffin]

94. He is ON RECORD saying that he would vote with Dick Durbin

You can cry about this if you like. Facts are facts.

The "Present" controversy really is a tempest in a teapot. It was not ducking votes. I'm surprised anybody here at DU has swallowed that line of bull.

[IndieLeft]

17. Respond with what?

What is she going to say? No, he didn't have to vote for it. But he was running for the senate at the time, and it was not a popular position, but still he did the "politically UNWISE" thing to do, and he spoke out against it.

What is she supposed to respond with? She was wrong. And everyone knows it.

[MagsDem]

26. As I said, she should respond with...

Gee, Barack, you weren't in office then. In fact, you are a junior senator with less than 3 yrs experience under your belt. So YOU didn't have to vote for it one way or the other. And judging on your history, you very well might have dodged voting on it at all. And SINCE you have been in office, your voting record is exactly identical to mine, when you've had the courage to actually record a vote other than "present."

She could make him look like the complete full of crap wussy he is. She is much too nice to him.

[Maven]

19. Here's a link on this story, courtesy of another DUer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4311626

[krkaufman]

23. Voting to continue funding the troops is markedly different ...

... than voting to put the troops into harm's way, unnecessarily. As Obama stated tonight, "we need to be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in."

Hillary voted to use force in Iraq. Obama, like Al Gore and Howard Dean, was against the war from its inception. The leadership and judgement shown by these Democrats is not diminished one iota by their not being in a position to cast a vote on the resolution to use force against Iraq.

[MagsDem]

28. Except he has a history of dodging difficult votes...

The last one being the Kyl Lieberman / Iran vote. He has a consistent pattern of ducking difficult votes.

[krkaufman]

48. And now we return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Rather than diverting to hypotheticals, deal with the reality of Hillary's Iraq resolution vote and Obama's outspoken opposition to the war.

Can we agree that Obama's position was correct, and Hillary's was wrong?

[MagsDem]

56. No, I don't agree that Obama's position is correct

I think if he has been against it since the beginning there is no reason why he hasn't shown any leadership in getting us out. I mean none whatsoever. He even voted against requiring Bush to get congressional approval to send more troops. How do you explain that?

I can explain it.... he says and votes for whatever he thinks will further his political career. Can we stop pretending otherwise?

[krkaufman]

57. Are you running for office? No? Then why can you not answer the question that was asked?

Hillary voted for using force against Iraq. Obama was outspoken against doing so.

Can we agree that Hillary's position on the issue was wrong, and Obama's was correct?

[MagsDem]

67. I answered your question....

I don't give him ANY credit for it because he has not backed up those easy to use words with any leadership since he was in a position to do so. Can you tell me why I should give him credit for some blowhard words he said when it didn't matter, yet has not backed up those words with ANY action whatsoever since he has been in that position?

Listen to him bleat on about this during the debate, when he has shown NO LEADERSHIP ON THIS IN CONGRESS. No, he doesn't get any credit. He is completely full of baloney.

[krkaufman]

92. Sad. You cannot answer the simplest of questions.

And so buildeth the Left's version of the 25%ers.

[MagsDem]

101. No...........

You just don't like the answer. Your man voted against the 2006 Kerry Fiengold bill to withdraw forces from Iraq by May 2007. He also voted against an admendment to require Bush to get congressional authorization to send yet more troops into Iraq. He has shown NO leadership on this issue he beats her to death with. I don't give credit for bullshit rhetoric that is not backed up by actions. That's your answer. Whether you like it or not.

[krkaufman]

105. And so it goes, 'round and 'round....

Hillary was wrong on her Iraq war vote. Her judgement was poor. It was a mistake.

In all your blather trying to cast Obama's Senate record as being pro-war, you fail, just like the candidate in question, to simply admit that entrusting George W Bush with the decision to go to war was an error in judgement. A mistake.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. His brother was killed before he could do what he wanted to do

History is also very clear on that fact.

Obama spoke out against the war. Hillary didn't. She didn't really say anything against the war until it was politically convenient for her to do so.

[MagsDem]

32. No, sorry, that isn't the way it happened

MLK was an avowed republican at the time, and JFK all but ignored him. MLK did not like JFK at all because he thought he had no courage on the issue. Eleanor Roosevelt was equally vocal in her criticism of JFK on that score as well. And in fact, he refused to say, during his campaign, whether he would pledge to get it passed.

And ironically, he dodged an important vote on civil rights when he was in the senate, which lead Elenanor to remark: "He could use a lot less profile, and much more courage."

Don't try to match me when it comes to history. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. I know history too

When King was arrested while Kennedy was running for president in 1960, King's father asked Kennedy for help getting him out of the prison where he was being held. And when Kennedy was able to get him released, King Sr promised him 10 million votes. Since most blacks were republicans at the time, this was a big deal and most likely won the election for Kennedy. King, Jr and Kennedy then became friends and worked together on civil rights.

[MagsDem]

60. You are talking about 3.5 yrs prior to Kennedy's death

And he did help Kennedy get elected. And 3 yrs later, MLK was still trying to get Kennedy to move the civil right bill forward. I'm not saying they were arch enemies, just that MLK was not happy with him and didn't think he had the courage. Kennedy continually told him the time wasn't right (because he was looking forward to his own battle for relection). Where do you think the MLK quote "The time is always right to do what is right" came from? It came from his frustration with Kennedy who consistently put political expediency first.

[TexasObserver]

25. Outrageous nonsense about the greatest living legislator.

Teddy Kennedy is a giant, figuratively speaking(except his head, which is literally gigantic). He chose Obama for good reasons. How unrealistic to think he'd be so petty on something so important. Talk about your fairy tales.

[MagsDem]

37. Oh no, that is a perfect example of how these egos work

... it makes perfect sense if you have ever seen the inside of the political world.

[TexasObserver]

39. It's obvious you have never been close to real politics.

Beyond the precinct level.

[MagsDem]

45. Try again.... I was on the board of a major non-profit in DC

I have met at least half our dem senators, more than 50 congresspeople, had dinner twice with John Edwards, and Terry McAuliffe (their people called me, not the other way around). I've had two brief conversations with Elizabeth Edwards, and one each with Howard Dean, and Hillary -- all lovely people. Closest I got to the big Dog was a handshake. Never got to meet Gore, but sure wish I would have. I won't even start on the pundits other than to say James Carville is kind of a jerk, and totally whipped by his wife.

So don't make assumptions about people you have never met, okay? I'm not saying I was a mover or shaker, and certainly not any longer, but yes, I have been very close to "real" politics.

[TexasObserver]

58. Your posts reveal a much less politically aware history.

I'm sure that resume is impressive to the people you hang out with. Me, not so much.

I'll stick with my opinion of this preposterous story and your version of it. There's always a market for internet fiction, of course, so don't let me dissuade you from further promoting it.

[MagsDem]

61. Hey, you made a bullshit accusation...

I'm not trying to impress you -- couldn't care less. Just saying you are full of shit (because you are -- you know nothing about me). And it's not MY story. In the case of MLK and JFK it's historical fact. In the case of Teddy and his Obama endorsement, I haven't known Keith Olberman to give air time to bullshit.

[TexasObserver]

74. Stop, you're making me laugh.

The delusions of grandeur some here have over being on the fringe of politics.

Have fun with that. I'll add you to the list and we can stop bothering each other.

[MagsDem]

76. Keep laughing then....

I have no delusions of grandeur or anything else. I made it clear I was no mover or shaker. However, I have spent many, many years very dedicated to federal politics. You can disagree with me if you like, but it's pretty damn ignorant to say I have no connection to "real" politics beyond the precinct level when you don't know the first thing about me. And that is a fact. :)

[Binka]

93. Jesus You Dare Hurl The Accusation Of Egoist When You Are A Can Of Moxie

I have never seen you on the board before tonight but your ego could wipe the planets ass. You say you are not a mover and shaker but you drop names and shit on countless posters who have much more time here then you do. What fucking hubris. I never really liked Hill but you make me loathe her just because you are such a complete fuckwittage and self promoting shit. Way to go Captain Arrogance. Jesus.

[MagsDem]

100. Should I just pretend someone that doesn't know me from adam....

... is correct when they claim I have never been involved in politics above the "precinct" level? If so, why?

As for how long I have been here, I have been here since 2002. I dropped out of posting for several years because of the amazing "fuckwittage" of DU posters that decided to scapegoat the GLBT community for Kerry's absofuckinglutely wussified campaign. Why? Because the fuckwittage of DU couldn't face the fact that they nominated a piss poor, complete wussy of a candidate. It was all the fault of teh gays!!!! Seriesly1111!!!

If you were here, you couldn't have missed that one. So don't talk to me about how long I have been here, or complete fuckwits on DU. Got it?

[Bongo Prophet]

102. WOW! You can get Moxie in a can now?

If Moxie lasts more than 6 hours, please call a physician. Not responsible for excess friction or tombstones.

:)

Actually, I am just intimidated from trying to "match" people in history.
Some of us like to have conversations more than contests.
Anti-competitive disorder?
I guess I am a real wimp, but it is hard to imagine engaging in a conversation and saying "You can't match me!" "Oh yeah, well you have OBVIOUUSLY never been blah blah" and so on.
I would be so outa there, like a saloon brawl....or GDP.
Takes all kinds, though - I hope you guys apply that fightin' spirit and take it to the freep boards. You will TOTALLY kick their asses...
Others will gently persuade voters in the general, listening, addressing their concerns without insults, and working their particular skills.
Samurai and ninjas, in common purpose, each doing our part.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

30. Open a history book and stop embarrassing yourself and this board.

[MagsDem]

40. On what particular point do you dispute me?

Please, be specific. Every bio of JFK, every bio of Johnson (including the transcripts of his tapes - he had them before Nixon you know), and even most bio of Elenanor Roosevelt recount it exactly that way. What point do you dispute?

[CatnHat]

31. Ted Kennedy is

just an old politician from the "old" democratic party. Funny that the Obama camp is salivating over Ted Kennedy's endorsement. Strange. Thought Obama was for "change"/"new direction". Seems to me, the Obama's new direction is pulled back further than the Clinton's. Way back. Go Figure!

[Jed Dilligan]

34. Black people demanded their civil rights

Politicians complied. I don't give credit to anyone but the people of the civil rights movement and their leaders for the courage and restraint and discipline and untiring effort it took to force the leaders' hands.

What a bunch of bullshit--arguing over this. If this is true they should be ashamed, both of them.

Clinton sounded good tonight, but I will not forgive her for glorifying state power over people power and politicizing this issue.

[Tweed]

36. Sour grapes are so so ugly

[MagsDem]

50. Well I hope you don't mean me.....

Teddy's endorsement doesn't bother me. I think it will hurt him more than it helps. I know Clinton wasn't asking for it. It would have been better for the dems as a whole if he'd of shut up.

[AtomicKitten]

41. Source? Link? Buelher?

[MagsDem]

46. Keith Olberman - as previously stated x 3

[Maven]

77. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4311626

[cooolandrew]

53. I'm sorry it may in part way be the reason but you can't make a speech that good for someone you ..

...don't beleive in. The speech was the real deal and we saw in the senate at the SOTU that they have a good friendship.

[MagsDem]

64. LOL -- I'm sure they like each other just fine

But yes, a politician, especially Ted Kennedy, can certainly make a speech "that good" no matter what he believes. That's why they are politicians.

[Dr Fate]

59. Where is the link to this info? n/t

n/t

[ErnestoG]

62. So you sat in on the phonecall, did you?

Wow, you must be psychic.

[MagsDem]

68. I trust Keith Olberman...

I think he is the most credible journalist on television, actually. Have you known him to lie? I haven't.

[Eric J in MN]

69. Did Olbermann say where he got that from? NT

NT

[maximusveritas]

71. It's based on some "anonymous sources"

Probably the same "anonymous sources" that said Kennedy was not going to endorse anyone. Marc Ambinder ran that story, then had to admit it was actually just a Clinton insider who gave him the info.

[ErnestoG]

81. Oh, SUPER LOL

[MagsDem]

82. Oh I believe it....

I used to be on the board of directors of a major non-profit in DC, and once had a senator that wouldn't speak to us for a year and had a major temper tantrum because he wasn't allowed more than 10 minutes on stage at a huge fundraiser. This stuff happens all the time with politicians. What's sad is that they do it through their staff members as well. I mean really petty shit, like disinviting others to strategy sessions, refusing to release pac money to them. This is totally par for the course in DC. They really are a huge bunch of babies. Believe it or not, it's almost always the men. The females tend not to pull that kind of crap.

[ErnestoG]

91. I think you believe what benefits your candidate and thats about it.

And also, I know what DC is like. I practically grew up there, my dad was a lobbyist.

[MagsDem]

103. "My" candidate?

Edwards was my candidate. I think Hillary will do a good job based on her experience, and I think Barack Obama is a pantload of baloney, doesn't have experience, is naive, panders to the right and wing nut job Christians, bullshits constantly, and is basically an empty suit. "My" candidate isn't in the race any longer. And I sure ain't voting for Obama. She is what is left, and we could do much worse. Obama for instance.

[ErnestoG]

79. So you have no first hand source on this. Thanks.

[MagsDem]

83. And you'll never get a quoted source on these type of stories

You, my friend, don't understand how politics works in DC. It happens all the time.

[ErnestoG]

89. Thanks for admitting you have no reliable sources.

[TriMetFan]

70. Why even bother

trying to post something like this???? Obama supporters don't care. They think Obama can't do no wrong. I'm still waiting for Obama to apologize about McClurkin and Caldwell. Also I want answers to Resco. But Obama just side steps this issue too.

[MagsDem]

73. I just thought it was funny

It didn't make much sense at the time. I knew some fight must have happened behind the scenes for Teddy to get out of his neutral corner.

[TriMetFan]

75. I know what you mean...

I ask my dad, who knows Kerry and my dad thinks and will stand by this, that Kerry's backing of Obama over Edwards was a result of the mess about Ohio in 2004. Edwards wanted those votes counted and Kerry ran with his tail between his legs.

[MagsDem]

78. Actually, I know that to be true as well

From the Edwards side of the story. And I don't mean second hand. :)

[TriMetFan]

86. I'm glad my dad was telling me the truth.

I know that Hillary is not perfect and I don't want her to be. But when it comes to trying to say anything about Obama and facts all hell breaks with his supporters. They are starting to scare me. They remind me of Bush-bots.

[Whisp]

80. he said he was against the war. not that he didn't vote for it.

cheater.

[MagsDem]

84. What's he done to back up those words?

Not a single thing. That you cannot deny. Stop acting like he is holier than thou. He's a typical politician.

[Political Heretic]

85. Um.... this is not exactly news.

Anyone knew this the day the endorsement was made. That's the kind of back room politics that is behind most all endorsements. Big deal. It's not news, and doesn't matter.

[McCamy Taylor]

88. This story is probably true. Hillary's remarks which the MSM

deliberately distorted as a slur against MLK Jr by misquoting them were actually a comparison of JFK with LBJ(with Obama as JFK and her as LBJ so no racial slur intended), with LBJ getting the praise for passing civil rights laws. I posted this last weekend before Ted Kennedy endorsed Obama, when I was writing about how the press was making up racist stuff that Hillary said. The NYT misquoted her three times leaving out the JFK reference, which seemed odd, since they support her (so why would they try to make her out to be a racist?) and everyone else was misquoting her too and posting her on YouTube and having a fit about the racial slur. But when Teddy endorsed Obama I knew that the NYT was trying to cover her ass by deleting the JFK reference, hoping to smooth things over with the Kennedys, who treat JFK like some kind of holy of holies. That is really messed up of the NYT, valuing the feelings of the Kennedys more than African-Americans. Shows some pretty mixed up priorities. And shows what inflated egos the Kennedys have.

That said, Teddy did a good thing, because he stopped all the race talk in the corporate media cold. With a Kennedy endorsement, Obama stopped being a scary Black man and went back to being half White/ half Black and very safe. And the Democratic Party was united again. So it is all good, even if it does make the Kennedys out to be sort of petty.

[NursesluvHillary]

96. I always thought RFK tried to do more for Civil Rights during the Kennedy era

[Hart2008]

98. RFK was JFK's right hand man.

One might conclude that RFK was doing the political "dirty work" so that JFK might avoid the political backlash from Southern whites.

Considering that the "solid South" had been the foundation of the Democratic party since Roosevelt, it was not an insignificant consideration. Nixon exploited the dissatisfaction of Southern whites in '68, and the Republicans count the South as their own power base now.

[VotesForWomen]

99. excellent last paragraph. nt

[Popol Vuh]

104. **sigh**

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: