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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 01:43 PM
Original message
I will support Hillary Clinton for President
Edited on Fri Feb-01-08 01:59 PM by bigtree
I see two election choices: Believe in Clinton's political prowess or Obama's idealism appeal.

Right now, I've already burned through several candidate choices who've since abandoned the race. The ONLY concern I have now is which of these candidates can defeat the republican nominee. I'm stuck between believing that Obama's idealistic appeals will prevail and trusting that Clinton knows how to kick some republican ass.

Barak Obama is a huge unknown to me. I don't see anything in his political history to suggest that he can bring together all of these disparate political ideologies together as a coalition against republicans. It's a dream I've had since I bothered to care about politics, but I really don't see any sign that Americans are going to be any less ideologically polarized in their voting this time around than they have been.

I really believe that, when either McCain or Romney get going as the republican nominee, they will draw voters into clear ideological lines of opposition and support, as has been the case in past elections. We can easily predict that their appeal will be a militarized one, complete with vets and soldiers as a backdrop. We already saw that with McCain, in SC.

Hillary Clinton has a ruthlessness to her political approach which, while a bane to her rival Democrats, is just the hammer we will need to crush the republican opposition's inevitably dirty campaign. Personally, there isn't much I wouldn't give to put a Democrat in the White House in 2009. Political ruthlessness looks, to me, like just what is called for in a campaign against these demagogues who've advanced in the republican primary. And, the Clinton's political ruthlessness is well-documented.

I think it's just wishful thinking that the issues and events which we base our support on in our own Democratic primary are all we need to sell our candidate to the masses. No matter how much we complain (and we certainly will) there will be no end to the baseless, inflammatory attacks on our nominee from the right-wing. The debates we're having over our two Democrats in our primary will, likely, not be the focus of debate in the general with the republican nominee. Our candidate will need the ability (and will) to go after the republican jugular. I don't think that can be achieved at the same time we're 'reaching out' to their defectors for support.

I think that, despite the concerns over the economy, as bad as it is, republicans will look to shift the debate to 'national security.' In that debate, McCain would be the strongest opponent, because of his record of military service. That service isn't unassailable, but it does present a dilemma for our candidates because of their lack of military experience. Anyone who doesn't think this will be a major issue in the campaign need to refer themselves to past presidential elections.

Folks can certainly point to Bill Clinton as an effective foil to the argument that a non-military nominee can't get elected. But, it shouldn't be forgotten that Al Gore provided his military service as a balance to all that.

Certainly Obama could choose a running mate with a military background, but I really don't expect this. I don't believe so, because the tone of his campaign doesn't seem to crave that military weight. I'm not sure it would suit his progressive stances to bend to some military figure as a political partner. I could be wrong.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, seems primed to fight a traditional, left-of -center Democratic campaign against the republican nominee. Call it triangulation, and you wouldn't be far off. But, I challenge anyone to demonstrate any overwhelming support for a purely progressive candidate this election season, even among our own primary voters.

Remember, this is about who I believe has the best chance of defeating the republican candidate, not what my dream ticket would look like. I've already been handed my hat on that score. If the figures and dynamics of this campaign stay the same, this will be a traditional republican/Democrat contest; complete with all of the hooks and brickbats.

That's why I'm leaning strongly to supporting Hillary Clinton as our nominee. Leaning, I suppose, because I'm still reeling from the distillation of our votes into support for these two who are left. They both represent aspects of our party values and party principles which deserve support, and, in some cases, praise. I don't view these two Democrats (and their views and positions) as a significant departure from the makeup of the majority of our elected Democrats, as a whole. And, despite some glaring differences in some key votes and on some key issues, they have remarkably similar records.

Yet, I believe Hillary Clinton is the aggressive, determined candidate we need to defeat republicans in the fall. I believe she has presented her positions and proposals with skill and a forcefulness which we will need to counter the coming onslaught from the opposition. There is no love lost between the right-wing and Clinton. There will be no question, after the republican nominee presents their extreme platform to counter our progressive one, just how much Clinton and her positions and platform are aligned with our party's values and principles. And, I believe, there is no one better equipped to elevate that message against the republicans' agenda than Hillary Clinton because of her experience in defending against a constant culture of republican attacks on her family and because of her demonstrated ability to keep our issues and concerns at the forefront of her defenses.

I don't think Clinton can do this alone, however. I think she needs a running mate who has some military experience to counter the republican nominee, especially if that nominee is McCain. That partner for Clinton, I think, should be Wesley Clark. The former NATO commander under Bill Clinton is a close friend and confidant of their family and would present Hillary's candidacy in a respectful, forceful light. There would be no contest over national security with either McCain or Romney with Clark in the wings to take the heat from the inevitable republican "surrender' rhetoric and direct fire back into the opposition. Clark would also attract a good number of progressives who were drawn to his campaign because of his forceful opposition to the Iraq occupation.

So, it's Clinton/Clark in '08 for my new, pragmatic choice in this election (I've really done myself in here at DU with this, I think) to go with the exit of my last ideal pick(s). Have at it.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fire suit over here - but be quick!-I like Clinton/Obama-n that order so laws can actually be passed
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
47. GREAT TOPIC (& could somebody please post this one as a topic)
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 05:35 AM by neutron
Responding to Recession
by Paul Krugman

Suddenly, the economic consensus seems to be that the implosion of the housing market will indeed push the U.S. economy into a recession, and that it’s quite possible that we’re already in one. As a result, over the next few weeks we’ll be hearing a lot about plans for economic stimulus
Since this is an election year, the debate over how to stimulate the economy is inevitably tied up with politics. And here’s a modest suggestion for political reporters. Instead of trying to divine the candidates’ characters by scrutinizing their tone of voice and facial expressions, why not pay attention to what they say about economic policy?
In fact, recent statements by the candidates and their surrogates about the economy are quite revealing.
Take, for example, John McCain’s admission that economics isn’t his thing. “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,” he says. “I’ve got Greenspan’s book.”
His self-deprecating humor is attractive, as always. But shouldn’t we worry about a candidate who’s so out of touch that he regards Mr. Bubble, the man who refused to regulate subprime lending and assured us that there was at most some “froth” in the housing market, as a source of sage advice?
Meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani wants us to go for broke, literally: his answer to the economy’s short-run problems is a huge permanent tax cut, which he claims would pay for itself. It wouldn’t.
About Mike Huckabee — well, what can you say about a candidate who talks populist while proposing to raise taxes on the middle class and cut them for the rich?
And then there’s the curious case of Mitt Romney. I’m told that he actually does know a fair bit about economics, and he has some big-name Republican economists supporting his campaign. Fears of recession might have offered him a chance to distinguish himself from the G.O.P. field, by offering an economic proposal that actually responded to the gathering economic storm.
I mean, even the Bush administration seems to be coming around to the view that lobbying for long-term tax cuts isn’t enough, that the economy needs some immediate help. “Time is of the essence,” declared Henry Paulson, the Treasury secretary, last week.
But Mr. Romney, who really needs to take chances at this point, apparently can’t break the habit of telling Republicans only what he thinks they want to hear. He’s still offering nothing but standard-issue G.O.P. pablum about low taxes and a pro-business environment.
On the Democratic side, John Edwards, although never the front-runner, has been driving his party’s policy agenda. He’s done it again on economic stimulus: last month, before the economic consensus turned as negative as it now has, he proposed a stimulus package including aid to unemployed workers, aid to cash-strapped state and local governments, public investment in alternative energy, and other measures.
Last week Hillary Clinton offered a broadly similar but somewhat larger proposal. (It also includes aid to families having trouble paying heating bills, which seems like a clever way to put cash in the hands of people likely to spend it.) The Edwards and Clinton proposals both contain provisions for bigger stimulus if the economy worsens.
And you have to say that Mrs. Clinton seems comfortable with and knowledgeable about economic policy. I’m sure the Hillary-haters will find some reason that’s a bad thing, but there’s something to be said for presidents who know what they’re talking about.
The Obama campaign’s initial response to the latest wave of bad economic news was, I’m sorry to say, disreputable: Mr. Obama’s top economic adviser claimed that the long-term tax-cut plan the candidate announced months ago is just what we need to keep the slump from “morphing into a drastic decline in consumer spending.” Hmm: claiming that the candidate is all-seeing, and that a tax cut originally proposed for other reasons is also a recession-fighting measure — doesn’t that sound familiar?
Anyway, on Sunday Mr. Obama came out with a real stimulus plan. As was the case with his health care plan, which fell short of universal coverage, his stimulus proposal is similar to those of the other Democratic candidates, but tilted to the right.
For example, the Obama plan appears to contain none of the alternative energy initiatives that are in both the Edwards and Clinton proposals, and emphasizes across-the-board tax cuts over both aid to the hardest-hit families and help for state and local governments. I know that Mr. Obama’s supporters hate to hear this, but he really is less progressive than his rivals on matters of domestic policy.
In short, the stimulus debate offers a pretty good portrait of the men and woman who would be president. And I haven’t said a word about their hairstyles.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well enough reasoned, but for one point.
When has she ACTUALLY fought the republicans?
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Welcome - thanks for sharing - and another enthusiast for Clinton/Clark
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. we need him
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REDFISHBLUEFISH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hillary 08!
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Barack Obama is a huge unknown to you?
Maybe you should pay more attention.

He scores higher marks on the environment, civil rights, etc. Most liberal dem in the Senate.

I wish voters would get more informed.
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REDFISHBLUEFISH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. "Most liberal dem in the Senate." Electionsswing on the center. Hillary is THERE!
She beats McCain. Obama doesn't.

If he gets the nod, Republicans will not coddle him, They do not fear losing the black vote and They willpoint out his past, His liberal stancesand BEAT him just like they beat Kerry.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Heh.
If I wanted a conservative president, I'd just vote for McCain.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. that isn't just a conservative vote, it's a vote for a dangerous extremist
The contrast with either of our candidates is stark. Only the most ardent Democratic partisans would deny this.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. His ability to run a successful campaign against an organized republican onslaught
Sen. Obama's Senate rival fell into scandal weeks before his election. I think his ability to withstand a concerted republican onslaught is mostly unknown. I've seen Sen. Clinton in action, with Lazio, and in many other situations where the right-wing thought they had her (and her family) under their thumb.
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REDFISHBLUEFISH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Hillary is running for PRESIDENT, Barack is running for nomination!
Many Democrats are seriously not thinking here!

Hillary 08!
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. REALLY?
What does he plan to do with ALL the nuclear waste he will be creating from the hundreds or so plants that plan to be built a operating all across America? Who do you think is backing him../ And what bills did he support. Remember the debates in NV...Yuca mountain...HA! Obama and the environment..please.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well said
One of the more reasonable threads I've seen lately at GDP. Deserves a K&R.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. thanks.
I'm literally just plugging in to her campaign. Lots of resources to pour over, lots of positive stuff to focus on.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. I had very negative feelings about Clinton for a long time
and I wholeheartedly supported another candidate. I have since been able to step back and see that Clinton is extremely competent and able to do the job. After last night, my opinion of Obama has gone from unimpressed to rather positive as he gave detailed, substantive answers.

I'm in a good place right now and I hope to stay there.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. it's funny
you seem as tense as feel.

This is definitely not where I wanted to be at this point. But, here I am; no fair weather friend.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Acceptance
I'm not going to get what I want, so I'm learning to want what I get, and that doesn't look all that bad now.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. serious question, do you really think Carville's barely squeaking by strategy will work
especially with electronic voting?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I hope Carville makes himself scarce
his Democratic currency is pretty much bankrupt, in my view
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
35. He won't. He's not only a big Clinton ally
and surrogate, he's emblematic of the DLC type of people who will be back in charge under Hillary. Top down all the way.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. glad to see you're so connected to the Clinton campaign
and privy to Carville's involvement.

Nice use of generalizations. "DLC type of people who will be back in charge under Hillary." That's so amazingly typical of the bullshit which flies around here. You come on with this broad brush smear and expect to be taken for someone knowledgeable and objective. You're just throwing factless firebombs. What a waste.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Carville told ABC News January 8 that he hasn't been tapped.
January 08, 2008

"I am not joining the campaign," Carville said, "I have had no discussions with them about that."

When reached by ABC News, Begala emphatically said he is not, and will not, be joining the Clinton campaign as an adviser. He also said that he will not be joining the Clinton campaign in an unpaid role.

"It's not going to happen. I'm not being cute here," Begala told ABC News.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/carville-denies.html

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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good choice bigtree.
I'd like to see Clinton/Clark myself.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Me as well.
And I pretty much agree with the case that the OP makes. I am not anti-Obama, I am pro-Clinton. I think she will make a good President and I think she is the Democrat best equipped to wage a campaigne against the Republicans this fall.
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REDFISHBLUEFISH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. A nice quiet hillary gain is seeming to start here!
No frantic threads about endorsements from college newspapers and peoples wives...Just a calm rationed post or two growing into a few dozen...All saying I am voting for Hillary!

I like it!

Hllary 08!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. I can't for Clinton and I WON'T vote for Obama. Not as it stands now, anyway.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. It was an inspiring stand you took on behalf of John Edwards' candidacy
and, my pleasure to stand with you in that fight. Best of luck, BSN
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Thanks bigtree and to you as well.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. Woohoo! Great OP.
:woohoo:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
42. thanks
:thumbsup:
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. I know you didn't read my mind
so I will just say GMTA.

Nicely written btw.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. your guy has a great mug
and a fantastic manner.



I can't stop thinking of the strength that ticket would possess, mostly, because I think Gen. Clark would represent Sen. Clinton with skill, but also, with respect, even behind the scenes.

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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yes you have,Friend.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. Nice analysis
I think Clinton/Clark would be a good ticket if McCain is the nominee. But I think the ticket could be open to other choices for VP if Romney gets it. (Maybe an economics whiz to counter his claim to have economics as a strong suit?)
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. I like Clinton herself as the economic guru
I'd prefer some balance in an area where she lacks experience. Economics will be tied to social justice and opportunity, if she's true to her ideals. She's well equipped to handle all of that. But, I agree that Romney may present other challenges than the 'security' issue, but he's already dipped into that pool . . .
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
30. I'm supporting the one who appeals to my logical, pragmatic side. Ms. Clinton.
I don't choose my doctor, nor my mechanic, nor my accountant, et cetera, on the basis of their charisma. I choose them based on their life experience, their ability to think through problems, and their innate wisdom to make the right decisions, sometimes very difficult decisions, on my behalf.

Charisma is highly over-rated. Remember how Rove gushed that george bush just oozes with charisma. I'm always leery of the possibility of a silver-tongued devil.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. welcome to the reality-based community. It ain't always a happy place...
...but you always know where you stand.
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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
33. Clinton/Clark 2008 all the way!
General Clark, a longtime Arkansas friend and trusted ally of the Clintons, lavished praise on Sen. Clinton:

"The world has reached a critical point, and we need a leader in the White House with the courage, intelligence and humility to navigate through many troubling challenges to our security at home and abroad. I believe Senator Clinton is that leader, and I whole-heartedly endorse her for President of the United States.

"Senator Clinton and I share a world view in which diplomacy is the best first-strike tool in our arsenal; in today's complicated global system, the United States should be making more friends than enemies."

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. yep. endorsed by Clark
"The world has reached a critical point, and we need a leader in the White House with the courage, intelligence and humility to navigate through many troubling challenges to our security at home and abroad."
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REDFISHBLUEFISH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Clark is a pretty good judge of things! Hillary 08!
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
39. thank you for your post, k&r'd...
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. you're very welcome.
It will be my pleasure to promote Hillary Clinton in her candidacy
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
43. Clinton/Clark was my first choice, Clinton/Obama is now equal to that hope.
But I wanted to say thanks for your well reasoned post.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. your welcome
now let's go help win this thing
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. kickaroo.
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avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
46. Wooohooooo! That's my dream ticket and your analysis is very good.
Thanks.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. glad to join you in this
now let's go help win this thing
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. I'll put Obama/Clark out there.....
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 07:39 AM by FrenchieCat
Two smart guys who knew that Iraq was a disaster in the making.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Clark is so close to the Clintons . . .
I really can't see him doing that
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