"I told you so" will taste like ashes to me.

[Mother Of Four]

I've been thinking long and hard about John Edwards dropping from the primary race. I've been thinking about all the Drama when Al Gore (GO GORE!) ran for president, and the subsequent soap operas over the election itself.

Al Gore transcended politics, and is now a voice heard around the world when many thought he would simply fade away. I've been thinking about how much I wanted him to run for president this time around, only to be told "We already had our chance, and we blew it"

It's my firm opinion that once again...we had our chance. And we screwed it up.

The day Edwards dropped from the race, I turned to my husband and cried.

I know with all the fiber of my heart that he would have fought for me, and every other man woman and child in this country.

I doubt that he will go quietly into the night so to speak, I think that he will become a voice to be reckoned with.

Global Warming and the environment is Gores Baby...Poverty and the invisible shackles, John Edwards baby.

Four years from now, Eight years from now...maybe even twelve years from now. However long it takes, people will eventually say "Wow, why didn't we elect him?"

I get the feeling that one day I'm going to be in the position of saying "I told you so" and it will taste like ashes when I do.

(Not angry, not despairing...I'm simply very tired, and very disheartened that we as a people go for "American Idol" instead of "American Substance")

[AndyA]

1. The best we can do at this point is second best.

You are correct...we had the opportunity to do something wonderful, and it's gone. Now all we can hope for is something better than what we've had under Bush. And that ain't sayin' much. :(

[saracat]

3. Sadly , it seems there isn't a second best. Status quo masquerading

as "change" is more like it.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

5. Out of curiosity, do you think Edwards would call somebody a powerfull voice of change

without meaning it?

[saracat]

7. Depends on wehat is meant by "change".And being a powerful voice for change doesn't mean

that one can effect change.One can be a "powerful voice" without "doing" anything.

[Mother Of Four]

9. I think that's key Sara, you hit it on the head.

What concerns me the most about Obama, is even though he could inspire chickens to fly with that voice of his...

Is that I'm really not convinced he'll use his ability to truly help our country.

Hillary...meh..I won't go there.

[saracat]

12. We were getting one of my prescriptions filled last night and as we paid an outrageous

amount, and we have private insurance, I pointed out to my husband that even if the medicine works( it is for fibermyalgia) I probably can't keep taking it as it is too expensive, and my husband said, "this is why I am so disappointed that Edwards isn't the nominee. " I feel out of them all he would have fought for us.The others won't".My husband said, "I would have felt better knowing we had someone who would have tried.I do not believe the others will".

[Bodhi BloodWave]

15. Looking under Obama's healthcare issues, this part came up

Lower prescription drug costs. The second-fastest growing type of health expenses is prescription drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are selling the exact same drugs in Europe and Canada but charging Americans more than double the price. Obama will allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S. Obama will also repeal the ban that prevents the government from negotiating with drug companies, which could result in savings as high as $30 billion. Finally, Obama will work to increase the use of generic drugs in Medicare, Medicaid, and FEHBP and prohibit big name drug companies from keeping generics out of markets.

Would this be a good or bad development regarding your situation?

I'll admit to wanting you to consider Obama, but I'm actually even more interested in understanding your stances and viewpoints better as you are one of the few i respect a lot on here(some dips lately, but I'm quite positive that once the primaries are over those will vanish :) )

Edited to add this sidenote: Mother Of Four, if you consider this sub-thread to be a hijack i'll stop at once :)

[Mother Of Four]

20. Not at all...

Any intelligent debate is a welcome thing for me.

It's actually nice to see people respectful when talking about seperate candidates.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

21. thanks, i decided that this deviated a bit from your topic

so wanted your go-ahead.

And i strongly prefer respectful/positive posts myself, tho i am guilty of the occasional snide reply to some posters depending on the mood of the post and who posted it :evilgrin: :hippie:

[saracat]

25. I have already voted for Edwards but I appreciate your kind words and civil discourse.

The concern my husband and myself have with Obama is the large amount of money he has taken from the pharmaceutical companies.Hillary has done the same.As Edwards said ," It is almost impossible to not take that into consideration" .Both these candidates can parse and make noises that "sound" like they want to offer a solution to the health care crisis but sadly, I don't believe them. Obama already talks of "selling' out by compromise which is a hell of a way to bargain with these entities and Hillary has already sold out to them before.As John said, if the lobbyists didn't influence the out come of health care, we would have had it already.No there is not much to give me confidence that either will really DO anything except maybe the merest band aid.Barack certainly worked with the Industry in Illinois and certainly caved then.And he stated right in his speech after Iowa, that he would guarantee the Insurance and pharma companies and well as other corporations a"seat at the table". John was the only one who would have smacked them down as he had nothing to lose.

As for my condition, it isn't a big deal.I have other stuff that is worse. I have a condition that only one doctor can treat and I have to fly to Chicago 4 times a year and get a shot in order for me to be able to speak at all! It costs us about $5000 ayear for the trips in addition to %700 a month for heath insurance.If I took all the prescriptions my doctor thinks I should take, it would be well over $200 a month.So I skip some. I am not old enough for medicare and not poor enough for Medicaid.Not much we can do but as my husband says , try to make more money!

John gave us "hope' because he was a "fighter".As my husband says, "he might not have been able to deliver everything he promised but by God, we would have known he tried.
This is also personal for us as we got to know John, and began to consider him a friend and you learn to trust your friends,we trusted John.

Hope this isn't too long winded but I felt I needed to respond.

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. You and your husband are good people sara.

:hug: :pals:

[saracat]

29. Thank you.My husband is running for State Senate and we hope John will endorse him when the

furor died down.We live in a GOP area and my husband almost won last cycle.We had permission to use John's pic last time but we didn't get an endorsement letter in time.We did have one from our governor but she has now endorsed Obama.Soo. I think she'll endorse my husband again but I'd like John up there too!

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. Good luck!

:thumbsup:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

32. Not to long winded at all :) i like good/long responses as it allows me to learn more

even if i tend to be rather more sparse in my own words *eyerolls* and to be honest, if i didn't try to debate in a civil tone i would by my own standards have already lost my case(got my own rather weird values in that regard)

Also congratulations on your vote for Edwards, he might not be who i favor(not that my favor means anything not being American :P) but he is who you trust and believe in and as such your vote was the most wise and correct one for you. And you and your husband are quite lucky i think to have gotten to know him :)

Now on the compromise statement, i assume you mean his bipartisanship which i actually see as a strength as his way of doing things is seeking out republicans that share the same views as him on that one issue, get them on board which strengthens the bills chance of passing without having had to compromise the core values of the issue(might some minor aspects be changed or removed, sure but thats normal in all agreements)

On the money, he does not seem to be to affected by that, to use a section from an article:
-
As a presidential candidate, Obama doesn't accept political contributions from lobbyists or political action committees. But as a legislator, he took thousands of dollars from the groups represented by some of his poker buddies. AT&T in its various incarnations, for example, gave more than $13,000 over the years.

Still, Obama routinely voted against the communications giant's interests. He opposed SBC Communications Inc. -- as AT&T was then called -- on a major initiative in 2003 that would have increased costs for the company's competitors.

Poker night also included a lobbyist for the Illinois Manufacturers' Association, and the game eventually was moved to the association's office. Obama often voted to raise taxes and fees for businesses.

Players say the poker game affected legislation only by building relationships, and lobbyists might get a more respectful hearing for their arguments.
-

The last line there goes nicely into the last comment on him offering them a seat which i also see as a wise choice(especially linked with the tech plan that meetings be taped/broadcast so people can see them).

If they are refused outright that gives them free 'reign' to fight back as hard as they want as they would only be 'defending' themselves against whatever agenda they dislike, now by having a seat at the table they are somewhat more invested in getting a solution passed.(the cameras themselves will force em to mellow a bit)

The fact respect is given and that he is willing to listen to their idea also help(and keep in mind that they have only one chair at the table and being a president for all includes big biz even if we dislike em a lot).

From another article:

"What impressed me about him was his ability in working with people of the opposite party," said Mike Lawrence, director of the Public Policy Institute at Southern Illinois University. "He had definite ideas about what ought to be contained in a campaign finance reform measure, but he also was willing to recognize that he was probably not going to get everything he wanted."

The result, according to good-government groups, was the most ambitious campaign reform in nearly 25 years, making Illinois one of the best in the nation on campaign finance disclosure.

-snip

Obviously, we didn't agree all the time, but he would always take suggestions when they were logical, and he was willing to listen to our point of view. And he offered his opinions in a lawyerly way," said Carl Hawkinson, the retired Republican chairman of the Judiciary Committee. "When he spoke on the floor of the Senate, he spoke out of conviction. You knew that, whether you agreed with him or disagreed with him."

and finally from the same article something that made me chuckle a bit :)

"One night, we were playing and things weren't going very well for me," Walsh said. "I had a real good hand and Barack beat me out with another one. I slammed down my cards and said, 'Doggone it, Barack, if you were a little more liberal in your card playing and a little more conservative in your politics, you and I would get along a lot better.' "


Finally now that all that over with I'm sorry to hear about your condition as i shivered just reading about it, i hope there will be a solution to it soon :pals:

side note: my post is likely a bit ranty but i get like that at times
Sidenote 2: Do you know if somebody who gets an honorary Doctorates of Law is allowed to use any titles?

[UpInArms]

45. in response to your "bipartisanship" reference

i assume you mean his bipartisanship which i actually see as a strength

I think you need to understand what a deadly deal that will be.

Bi-PartisanSHIP of Fools
by Bridget Gibson May 10, 2002


"Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end" .- Lord Acton

Every craft must be guided by one who can master the waves and the storms of all seasons. Our national agenda is eroding the fields planted and sown for the past two centuries. The Republican Party has long been known for its dirty tricks and smear campaigns so characterized by Richard Nixon and George H. W. Bush. Now, George W. Bush follows bravely in their wake. The Democratic Party has been tarred with the brush of the "tax and spend" painters for so long that the phrase falls readily from our lips. Is it not obvious that the cycle of Republican waste and their propensity for giving the nation's wealthiest the largest tax cuts and rewarding the corporate thieves with the keys to the castle has generally forced the next cycle of Democratic taxation to make up for the losses?

Perhaps my dictionary has become outmoded or I have 'misunderestimated' Mr. Bush, but it states that 'compassion' is a noun, a feeling of sorrow or pity for the sufferings or misfortunes of another; sympathy. Thus, in this concept of being a 'compassionate conservative', is Mr. Bush saying that, as he alters the course of American history back to the dark ages, he "feels sorry" for the lives and the people he is destroying and killing? I do not want his pity. I do not want his sympathy. If anything, I am left feeling sorry for him. He has allowed himself to be molded into a specimen of the nastiest sort -- a person so disconnected from reality that his only reality is where to move the money that his family has drained from the coffers of the American taxpayer for the best economic return.

Who is guarding our liberties while Mr. Bush and his minions are busily dismantling them? While John Ashcroft states "To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists - for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve," who defies him? No one. Only one could stand and say that they had not signed the USA Patriot Act destroying the liberties expressly provided in the Bill of Rights. Not one solitary soul had the courage of their convictions to say to these thieves and robber barons that this country was built upon a foundation that abhorred the ruling class of England and the first King George. The writers of our Constitution felt so strongly in this regard that Section 9, Clause 8 reads: No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

No, in Washington, D.C., it is politics as usual. It is a race to see who can loot the treasury in the most outlandish manner, giving the most pork to the biggest campaign contributors. It is a comedic farce of the worst sort to see who can support the largest gifts to corporations, to continually ignore the results of the disastrous "free market" mentality that has handed our jobs to cheaper foreign labor, while attempting to assuage a minority interest by giving them a part of the purse for their jobless troubles.

In 1994, when Congress failed to give Bill Clinton Fast Track Trade Authority, I had believed that there were those in elected positions that finally realized their responsibilities to the citizens. But no, I was wrong again. It was a partisan play now resulting in the loss of oversight for the entire country. Now those jobs can leave more quickly, those foreign products can be dumped more efficiently and the taxpayers can pay and pay and pay. This is disgusting.

When will someone, anyone, rise to the challenge to actually uphold the rights of the ordinary American citizen? When will the citizenry realize that to fail to become involved every day in every way only allows this gross misconduct to continue?

When will we all realize that 'politics as usual' is the mantra for the fools? Will it be when we all realize that to be on some "bipartisan" sell-off of America is what we are having for breakfast, lunch and dinner?

Eventually, I believe that my fellow Americans will wake up. When they will wake up is much in doubt. Will it be after the final gavel has come down declaring the insolvency of our country? Will it be when all the body bags from all of our best and brightest have been delivered after they have died protecting the oil pipelines laid by the American corporations through all of the mountains of Afghanistan, Colombia, Nicaragua, Argentina and anywhere else the oiligarchs choose to rule?

Wake up soon, my slumbering friends. The alarms are sounding and the bells are ringing. Your continued disregard of the choices that are being made in your name will surely doom us all.

[Mother Of Four]

16. Keep your chin up Sara, you have my respect.

I sincerely hope your medicine works, and that somehow you can continue to get it.

We have Tricare, I just got a bill in the mail. With everything I have to pay this month, increased heating, and my kids getting older even a 115 dollar (Which is extremely low for health care) premium is going to be hard for me to swing.

My 17 year old son had to go to the emergency room, for partial facial paralysis. When I went to go pay the copay, I was waved off saying "You have military insurance, it's fine"

In this same stack of bills that I got my Tricare, I also got a bill from the Hospital for 306.

We live paycheck to paycheck right now, but are managing to hold our heads above water. If this is difficult for us, I can't imagine how hard it is for people who don't have the option of Tricare.

And this is just ONE aspect of the forgotten middle class, ONE aspect of this country which is supposed to be the "Promised Land" "Land of the free, Home of the Brave" Truly, because you are free to be poor and unnoticed..and to do so you must be very very brave.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

17. i can do nothing but agree with you on this post

On hoping that the medicine words and that Saracat can keep using it, i also hope that things will go well for you as living from paycheck to paycheck can be quite hard

[Bodhi BloodWave]

11. Mainly the line in my sig from a debate a while back when he defended Obama

And looking at Obama's past votes and accomplishments I'd have a hard time saying he can't effect change.
One of the main reasons i love his candidacy tho is his technology plan which i think would almost force a lot of changes by default(i wish we could have gotten that one implemented here in Norway hehe )

[Silver Gaia]

40. Absolutely correct, saracat.

And "change" can be either good or bad, depending on what is meant by "change." Bush brought a lot of "change," too.

[truedelphi]

47. Wiser words than yours

Would be hard to come by

[saracat]

2. What an absolutely beautiful post and one the mirror my feelings and those of my husband,

It seems commitment and honesty are undervalued in politics and an unseen influence is directing all things political. We will indeed have ashes in our mouths one day and I fear it will be sooner rather than later.And we will take no happiness from the "I told you so".

[smokey nj]

4. K&R!!!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. I can add nothing to this. You said it so well.

K&R!

[Greylyn58]

8. This is one of the best posts I've read lately

In a few short sentences you have summed up exactly how I feel right now. I whole-heartedly agree that even though Edwards has left the race, his voice will not be silenced. Edwards won't be silenced and will continue to give voice to the voiceless.

And boy do I agree with your last statement: "we as a people go for "American Idol" instead of "American Substance"

Truly tragic.

[SammyWinstonJack]

10. ...

:kick:

[balantz]

13. These are words right out of my own heart.

How did you do that? ;)

K&R

[Blue_In_AK]

14. You are correct,

and I had the exact same reaction you did. I'm only just now coming to grips with it. The first day I was devastated.

[iris5426]

18. Eloquent and right on the mark.

It's a great loss for us, our country and the world, and it will be too late when everyone else realizes it.

K&R!!!

:kick:

[earth mom]

19. I'm very angry that people can be so damn obtuse after SEVEN YEARS of this crap!

However, I don't think the problem lies with people choosing NOT to elect Edwards but rather that Edwards was scared off-just like Gore and probably Kerry were too.

That people around here support Obama or Hillary when they too are part of the evil fascist corporate rule that has taken over this country frustrates the hell out of me!

I know I will be saying "I told you so" too, but I won't get any satisfaction out of it because in the end WE ALL LOSE.

People must WAKE UP and realize that Hillary or Obama will just carry on * & Cos plans...except this time they will do it all with a politically correct fake smiles on their faces!

The dark days we've been living through have just gotten much much darker.

:nuke:

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. I believe TPTB ran Gore off. I remember that he was looking forward to

running again in '04. He said as much. Then he suddenly announced he wouldn't be. Just like that . And now Edwards suddenly calls it quits after saying he was in this until the Dem convention?

Something is amiss.

[earth mom]

23. Notice the pattern? Gore, Kerry and now Edwards?

Something is most definitely amiss.

But shhhhhh we're not supposed to talk about it...

[Nederland]

24. Yes, I see the pattern

Each got a successively smaller percentage of the vote.

Gore won a majority of the vote in a general election.
Kerry won slightly less than a majority in a general election.
Edwards won around 15%-25% in Democratic primaries.

The trend is clear. While it may seem odd that someone who won the popular vote (Gore) would not run again, I fail to see any conspiracy when it comes to Kerry or Edwards...

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[Nederland]

38. I couldn't agree more (nt)

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Oh I see the pattern. It is not lost on me and not only should we talk about it,

we should be screaming at the top of our lungs! :grr: Every one of us should, regardless of which candidate we support!

[earth mom]

30. The problem is too many people round here are brainwashed by CNN & MSNBC. They believe the lies

they're being fed. They refuse to look any further than what they've been "told".

I don't have cable and don't watch CNN or MSNBC and that's why I'm not sucked in by the lies & b.s.

So yes I totally agree that we should all be screaming at the top of our lungs, but it won't happen until it hits home in a personal way with people.

Things like The Great Depression 2 or World War 3 come to mind-under Hillary or Obama's presidency.


:argh:

[SammyWinstonJack]

37. The real sad part is that it never had to be this way.

:shrug: I don't watch the corprat media either. I can think for myself and I also recognize propaganda when I hear/read it.

[femrap]

31. That is so true....

American Idol vs. American Substance.

K and R

[Lugnut]

33. K&R n/t

[Triana]

34. Mother of Four - you expressed my sentiments exactly!

I was thinking about this last night - about how Gore had to get OUT of politics to accomplish what so desperately NEEDED to be accomplished. I suspect John Edwards will have to do the same.

With the corporations controlling our gov't and our media - there's NO ROOM or desire for change there - and the only thing that will change THAT is if we elect the true visionaries like Gore or Edwards.

I'm rather disgusted myself with the spoilt 'identity' voters who never had to struggle like their parents did - and who care more about watching American Idol or whatever else is on their HDTV than about anyone or anything else. THEY didn't have to struggle - but there are a HISTORIC number of people who are STILL struggling like their parents did - and worse - trying to make their own lives and those of their children's better.

Edwards had it right. To those who are given a lot, a lot is expected. But those narcissistic identity voters were given a lot, and intend to return nothing. Maybe they think it was owed them.

They turn a blind eye - and instead choose to ridicule a man who wants to make real progress on issues they won't even acknowledge or don't care about because it doesn't affect THEM and never did.

Those pretentious narcissists are driving the Democratic Party even further away from what it was meant to be. ONE man wanted to restore it in this election - John Edwards. But the corporat-controlled government (Chamber of commerce et al), the corporat-controlled media, and the spoiled identity voters would have none of that.

Like you, when I say the same thing myself a few years from now "I told you so" - it will taste like ashes. And in response, I'll likely get a smug shoulder shrug and a lot of resentment. And next election, they'll screw it up again.

Pfffffft!

[Justice Is Comin]

35. Just go to your favorite chair,

put your feet up and smile. He could be Attorney General and nobody would be able to prevent it. Next step, Supreme Court. That sure makes me smile.

[AnneD]

39. Please vote for him in the primaries....

You can still send a message.......
He stood up for us let's stand up for him...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4331841
keep it kicked

I have felt great all day once I came to this conclusion to vote Edwards in the primaries...

Remember....fight 'em til hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice.

[Catchawave]

41. I'm voting for JRE in the Va primary

and nobody can stop me :evilgrin:

As for the General, I love both Hillary and Obama, but will save time, trouble, my cash and vote for the least annoying one in November. That's all I can promise at this point, even if John endorses one of them.

I am vexed.

[saracat]

42. Catch! there you are! We missed you!

[Ravy]

43. Thanks for a great post! nt

[catchnrelease]

44. I thought the same thing several times today.

Was wondering how long it would be after the election that people will start moaning about how nothing is changing, things are still the same, when will things be different, etc. That's when I'll want the "Don't blame me, I voted for Edwards" bumper sticker. Like you, it won't make me happy to think "I told you so".

[vanboggie]

46. A lot of us feel that way, Motheroffour

Kicking because you said what I feel very well. Thank you.