3,000,000 MoveOn Members did NOT vote for Obama

[RetroLounge]

MoveOn fucked up.

RL

[MADem]

1. Mostly monthly donors, too, I'll bet.

I agree--they did fuck up.

[neutron]

46. Is MoveOn shifting Right?

Obama is to the right of Hillary.
This is a strange choice.

[MADem]

47. Could well be. They're far from their origins, that's for sure. NT

[Leopolds Ghost]

60. Their Origins were in Wealthy Internet Geeks Supporting the Clintons and the DLC in the 1990s.

I should know, many of these MoveOn exec types live in my neighborhood inside the beltway.

[Qutzupalotl]

52. Clinton is to the right of Obama

on IWR

[neutron]

61. MSNBC Crawl Misleads Viewers

it implies that all 3 million members voted, leading viewers to think
he has more support than he actually does.

[Qutzupalotl]

62. Touche'. nt

[busymom]

64. I never got an email.

I wish that MoveOn had stayed out of endorsing any candidate....and I would feel that way if it was a Clinton nod too....I always saw them as getting behind the dems..but not being in the game of trying to pick candidates. It makes me want to distance myself from them.....

[Kittycat]

2. Should your title read, "3,000,000 MoveOn Members didn't vote"

And instead ignored the emails like spam?

[RetroLounge]

15. No, my title is just fine.

3,000,000 MoveOn Members didn't vote for Obama in the poll.

RL

[robbedvoter]

23. That's also accurate - as not everyone got e-mails, only 10% of membership

read their website, They tell you so.

[D23MIURG23]

76. I didn't see that in the email or press release.

Got any links?

[movonne]

3. And where did you get your information?? or did you have a vision...

[RetroLounge]

5. No, I used something called math.

3,200,000 MoveOn Members.

197,444 voted in the poll for Obama.

Hence, the rest did not vote for Obama.

You're welcome.

RL

[VolcanoJen]

16. And by that logic, the rest also did not vote for Clinton.

I truly fail to see whatever kind of point you are attempting to make.

It's not the end of the world that MoveOn's membership endorsed Obama. Take a hint from MoveOn and, well, move on.

[RetroLounge]

20. Don't be so obtuse

You know exactly the point. and if you "truly fail to see" then you're not worth discussing it with.

197k out of 3.2 MILLION did not vote to endorse Obama.

and by your logic, yes, 3,000,000 did not vote for Clinton either. but they didn't endorse her.

Yet their press release says 3.2 million mobilize to back Obama. It's a lie.

Drop your claws, VJ, I'm not a Hillary OR an Obama supporter yet.

RL

[neutron]

49. Murdoch Must've Given them a Donation

to do something to alienate their membership.
Obama is the conservative candidate.
It looks like somebody sold out.

[VolcanoJen]

59. Oh, I'm sharpening my claws...

... for November. By then I'm thinking most of you won't have any damned fight left in you.

[RetroLounge]

66. Hmm, you just might be right...

It's a long way to November...

:hi:

RL

[rocktivity]

45. Vote totals

Total votes 280,528

Obama: 197,444 (70.4%)

Clinton: 83,084 (29.6%)

:headbang:
rocknation

[lynch03]

55. That is horrible logic

Sad. Do I really even have to explain it?

[Cant trust em]

4. and yet..

from moveon.org..."The vote favored Senator Obama to Senator Clinton by 70.4% to 29.6%".

This post shows that statistics can be manipulated to mean a lot of things.

http://moveon.org/press/pr/obamaendorsementrelease.html

[RetroLounge]

7. I noticed their misleading "press" release

never says how many actually voted in the poll, but instead says "3.2 Million Members Nationwide Mobilize to Get Out the Progressive Vote for Senator Obama"

So now MoveOn lies too...

RL

[Cant trust em]

39. That's fair

What is more important than that though is that the people who were active enough to vote decided for Barack Obama. That being said moveon's claim is like saying nearly 300,000,000 Americans voted for George Bush in 2000. In reality only just over 50,000,000 voted for him. More importantly just over 51,000,000 voted for Al "The Godfather" Gore.

[MediaBabe]

68. That's the way I read it - MoveOn lied

Just more lying politics only on a different level.

"MoveOn Endorsement Throws Progressive Weight Behind Barack Obama
3.2 Million Members Mobilize to Get Out the Progressive Vote for Senator Obama"

[Kat45]

6. I never even got an e-mail/ballot.

I think I'm a member, since I always get e-mails that begin "Dear MoveOn Member."

[neutron]

12. I got one at 6pm yesterday

No time to read or even respond to.
Their Big Doners apparently decided.
Then they dashed out something to the rest of us
who don't get around to reading political spam until the week-end.

[Irishonly]

19. I have never donated

to Moveon and I was asked to vote. I didn't because I am and Edwards supporter and voted for him by absentee. I will support the nominee in November but I can't say I support either of them. It didn't make sense to me why they did it. As far as endorsements I have never paid attention to any of them ever.

[MagsDem]

35. They announced then closed the vote all within 8 hrs

There was never any intention to actually get us to vote. They were simply trying to justify the bullshit they were going to put out later supporting Obama. Fuck em -- they lost me, and I hope a few million others.

[nonconformist]

8. Yes, they did. And now that they're seeing an influx of people unsubscribing..

Such as myself... donors, even... I'm sure they realize they fucked up.

[neutron]

14. Their unsubscribe page is really slow. They're losing a ton of members. nt

[RetroLounge]

26. As they should.

RL

[Texas_Kat]

50. FWIW, they lost me

[zabet]

9. Thank you.

Shows how spin
can distort the
facts.

[RetroLounge]

13. Yeah, distortions and now lies.

and the Obamabots descend to attack anyone who disagrees with MoveOn.

RL

[Barack_America]

10. My mayor endorsed Hillary, yet most of his constituents will vote for Obama.

He didn't ask us. Do I move?

[RetroLounge]

11. Are you a member of YourMayor.org?

Do you give him money?

RL

[Barack_America]

17. No, but I'm a member of my community and I voted for the guy...

And, in fact, considering 3,000,000 non-votes as votes against someone is stupid.

[RetroLounge]

22. So it's stupid?

Wow, you are rabid in your defense of the indefensible.

So, does this mean 3.2 Miilion members of MoveOn now are now mobilized to support Obama?

:shrug:

RL

[Barack_America]

30. Nope, 3,000,000 of them are simply not mobilized.

If they didn't care enough to vote, they have no right to complain about the outcome.

Of the remaining members who did vote, they voted overwhelmingly for Obama. That's how elections go.

[RetroLounge]

33. They didn't send ballots to ALL members...

Did they?

Yet their Press Release says 3.2 Million Member are now mobilized to support Obama.

So you said "Nope, 3,000,000 of them are simply not mobilized."

So who is wrong, you or MoveOn?

:shrug:

RL

[Barack_America]

44. If they didn't let all members vote, I would be in disagreement with them...n/t

[MagsDem]

37. The vote was announced and closed within 8 yrs

It was a bullshit stunt to justify who they wanted to claim their members support.

[Barack_America]

43. Well, if they had 8 years to vote, then they have no excuse.

;)

[UpInArms]

42. edited and put you on ignore before I even posted

[cyclezealot]

18. Their site said they did like a roving poll

of their members. I will withold comment until I knew what that means. The site mentioned no use of money will be forwarded to Obama. Move On members will be contacted and encouraged to vote for Obama.

[robbedvoter]

25. "Roving" - how appropriate!

[RetroLounge]

28. Yeah, I noticed that too.

:rofl:

RL

[MADem]

51. Ahhh....no wonder!! That's hysterical..."ROVING".....what idiots! NT

[KennedyGuy]

21. we should all vote present in all their future polls

[RetroLounge]

24. There won't be any future polls.

Now that they've been unsubscribed.

RL

[robbedvoter]

29. Me too. And told them why.

[bigwillq]

27. Am I the only one

who doesn't give a flying hoot about the MoveOn endorsement???? :shrug:

[Debi]

31. Nope - you can add me bigwillq

Seems people are going to vote for who they are going to vote for (unless they get all riled up and decided to NOT vote for who they were NOT going to vote for :crazy:)

Whooopi - dee - dooh!

[Leopolds Ghost]

63. Well, that's what happens when you get an artificial 2-person race

It's not like people who are active in the Democratic Party process are going to change their minds from one remaining candidate to the other during the remaining course of the campaign. It's all rigged up from heareon out.

[RetroLounge]

32. Apparently

:hi:

RL

[robbedvoter]

34. I just took it personally - because I have been a supporter,

[Jed Dilligan]

36. 149,095,643

voting-age Americans did not vote for Bill Clinton in 1996, as compared to 47,402,357 who did.

Does that mean America fucked up by making him president?

:hide:

[RetroLounge]

38. No, it means America did not endorse Clinton.

Those who voted for him did. :eyes:

"America" did not then send out a press release claiming 190,000,000 are mobilized for Clinton.

But you knew that already.

Wow, logic is in short supply here.

Try again.

RL

[Jed Dilligan]

48. Since I'm not a MoveOn member,

I can't comment on how diligent they were in making sure everyone knew about the vote. However, unless there was some factor that made Obama supporters MORE likely to respond, that doesn't mean anything. Do you think there was some kind of conspiracy? Obama polls much better here than Hillary, and though those are the ultimate in unscientific "polls," I expect they reflect actual sentiments to some degree. MoveOn is closer politically to DU than to the party or the electorate in general, so I would expect that even the most rigorous, universal survey of their membership would show him with some sort of lead.

This is not an endorsement of their decision to run the survey, the wisdom of which remains to be seen.

I also don't know exactly what they said IRT how "mobilized" their membership were for Obama. If you could send me or post the quoted text, that would be welcome. I don't trust any characterization of anyone's statement here without a precise quote and a link. This is based on my experience with distortions, sometimes very obvious ones, committed by DU members who claim to be strong supporters of one candidate or another. It has nothing to do with you in particular; I am not calling you out. However, I think you'll understand if I take your "mobilized" statement with a grain of salt until I read MoveOn's actual words.

Finally, I would like to comment on the notion that the voters in America have adequate information, education, and notice about the voting process. They don't. Millions of Americans are unaware of when, how, and WHY they are supposed to vote. This is even more true in primary season. I don't blame this entirely on apathy. There are interests in this country who want to keep voting a largely elitist process.

[RetroLounge]

54. some kind of conspiracy?

Nope.

I am not a supporter of Hillary or Obama.

MoveOn has a press release on their site claiming 3.2 million are now mobilized for Obama.

RL

[Jed Dilligan]

58. I agree that the press release is misleading

"The group, with 3.2 million members nationwide and over 1.7 million members in Super Tuesday states, will immediately begin to mobilize on behalf of Senator Obama. The vote favored Senator Obama to Senator Clinton by 70.4% to 29.6%."

http://moveon.org/press/pr/obamaendorsementrelease.html

By not stating their low rate of return, they POSSIBLY magnify the support for Obama among their membership. That means POSSIBLY, because (unless there was some kind of push-polling or selection bias going on) we don't know that the low rate of return doesn't mask an even higher margin for him.

Even if we assume that the poll was statistically perfect, they are stating that 947,200 of their members support Clinton.

What I can't find is the implication there that all 3.2 members "are now mobilized," as you stated. What it actually says is probably true: that, now that they've solicited and believe they've obtained their members' opinion, they (the leaders of MoveOn) will now be mounting mobilization efforts on Obama's behalf.

What you do with your money is your business--I'm sure the MoveOn leaders considered the fact that they would alienate some people by making this move. It's called politics, and there are winners and losers at every stage of the game.

Edit for calculation error

[RetroLounge]

65. Right on the press release

I think it's misleading...

"3.2 Million Members Nationwide Mobilize to Get Out the Progressive Vote for Senator Obama"

RL

[Jed Dilligan]

67. Okay, now I see it

My eyes skipped over that line from the title to the body text. Yes, that is a misrepresentation of what is actually happening.

[RetroLounge]

73. Thanks you.

:hi:

RL

[MediaBabe]

69. 3.2 Million Members Nationwide Mobilize to Get Out the Progressive Vote for Senator Obama

I guess you missed the first sentence in their press release -

"3.2 Million Members Nationwide Mobilize to Get Out the Progressive Vote for Senator Obama"

That doesn't mince around it. It states clearly that 3.2 million members are now mobilized. Not 'will.' Not 'might.' Not 'some of the 3.2 mil members.' Not implied. Stated as fact.

[Jed Dilligan]

70. See post 67

You got here too late to "pwn" me

:P

[D23MIURG23]

75. {0} self delete

[MagsDem]

40. Oh please....

We don't have surprise elections in this country where they announce that were having one with no notice, then close the polls within 8 hrs of the announcement. Move On = crock of shit that will never get another dime from me.

[Bitwit1234]

41. I know 15, 678 members they are going to loose.

nd just think of the relatives and friends of those people who got them to contribute....they have other members I know, but there are a lot cancelling subscriptions....

[Blue_In_AK]

53. I'm a MoveOn member and I didn't vote.

I don't think it's appropriate for them to endorse anybody at this point.

[Freida5]

56. I am leaving the organization. What the F is wrong with them.

[cyclezealot]

57. Those who are critical

we should poll each other. Are you or have you ever been members. I will await their explanation before jumping all over them.

[JorgeTheGood]

71. Looks like the MO members ...

were h-AARP-ooned ...

[Politicub]

72. I agree. They messed up.

And I don't understand why they did it. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[D23MIURG23]

74. The real question is why.

They claimed on the email ballot that all moveon members above the age of 18 would be allowed to vote in the poll, but I'm hearing a lot of members reporting that they never got the email. If this was really just a case of widespread neglect (or anger at only having Clinton and Obama as choices) then I don't really see a problem.

But I'm starting to get the feeling from testimonials here that there was either a gigantic error in ballot disbursals or intentional disenfranchisement of most of the members.

[tandem5]

77. no more mailing list, no more money nt

[avrdream]

78. Yep.