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I no longer have any fear about Clintons electability.

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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:45 PM
Original message
I no longer have any fear about Clintons electability.
I work for a very conservative family run small business. They're rich, rolling in it. Voted for bush twice, even printed his picture in our companies advertisements (which got us quite a bit of hate mail and angry phone calls!) In 2004 the head of my company offered to pay his employees not to vote for Kerry. He is publicly racist and sexist.

In the past few weeks I have heard both my boss, and our company president say that they will vote for Hillary Clinton (both racist misogynists). The big guy said John McCain is too old, and that Hillary is the most qualified. He struggled to get the words out, and I'm sure it was a painful experience for him.

though he did refer to Barak Obama as "bahamma" I'm not too sure what to think of that....


I just thought I would put that out there, for what its worth. I am not planning on voting for Hillary in the primary, but I will happily get behind her in the general if she is nominated. She would be a fantastic president.

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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good try.
Good try.
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. All these Newbies with Relatives
Who despise McCain and like Hillary -- wow!
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. I read a poll from back in October that said
conservatives appreciate Hillary's work ethic. Sounded encouraging to me, plus the poll numbers were not that bad. I believe that once the primaries are over she would do a fantastic job at attracting some crossover votes.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. But they hated Bill's . Or maybe they were jealous of it?
:shrug:
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. I think with Bill it was the personal
issues that really enraged them. Avoiding the draft, I did not inhale, the women. The social liberal policies also, but just about any Democrat has to walk that minefield.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Avoiding the draft? That's rich. Coming from chickenhawk repugs.
And the extramarital affairs.... :rofl: Newt, Livingston, Hyde. :evilgrin: Rank and file repugs are tools.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Agreed
but there has been a lot of money spent to smear him whereas the repukes have gotten off the hook by merely asking God for forgiveness. Works every time.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Damn. I forgot the God factor.
:evilgrin:
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. THANKS.
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. too old, eh?
i think he won't care if he at all approves of McCain's vice president. They consider Repubs light years ahead of Dems in experience and knowledge.
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I guess thats possible...
well see.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Interesting. That is good to know.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Business people always loved the Clintons in the same way they love the Bush's
To anyone rational that might be a clue as to how the average American will fare under another Clinton.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. the cure for sour grapes is plenty of sunshine!
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. Yeah, life REALLY sucked when Bill Clinton was President.
The awesome Clinton record:

longest economic expansion in American history--a record 115 months of economic expansion
More than 22 million new jobs: more than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration
Highest home ownership in American history
Made the Federal government smaller (a feat matched only by Harry Truman; if you like small government, vote Democratic)
Lowest unemployment in 30 years: unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000; unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women was the lowest in more than 40 years
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
Lowest crime rate in 26 years.
Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
Higher incomes at all levels: after falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family's income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation; all income brackets experienced double-digit growth; the bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years: the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent in 1999--the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union: efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt: under Clinton, we were on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009; what a difference a stolen election makes...
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Lowest government spending in three decades
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
More families owned stock than ever before
Most New Jobs Ever Created Under a Single Administration: Republicans really chew the rug when you mention this one, so it's worth repeating constantly
Median Family Income Up $6,000 since 1993
Unemployment at Its Lowest Level in More than 30 Years
Highest Home ownership Rate on Record
7 Million Fewer Americans Living in Poverty
Largest Surplus Ever
Lower Federal Government Spending: after increasing under the previous two administrations, federal government spending as a share of the economy was cut from 22.2 percent in 1992 to 18 percent in 2000--the lowest level since 1966
The Most U.S. Exports Ever: between 1992 and 2000, U.S. exports of goods and services grew by 74 percent, or nearly $500 billion, to top $1 trillion for the first time
Lowest Inflation since the 1960s: inflation was at the lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration, averaging 2.5 percent, down from 4.6 percent during the previous administration
The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent
The poverty rate for single mothers was the lowest ever
The African American and elderly poverty rates dropped to their lowest level on record
The Hispanic poverty rate dropped to its lowest level since 1979
Lowest Poverty Rate for Single Mothers on Record: under President Clinton, the poverty rate for families with single mothers fell from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 35.7 percent in 1999, the lowest level on record
Smallest Welfare Rolls Since 1969: between January 1993 and September of 1999, the number of welfare recipients dropped by 7.5 billion (a 53 percent decline) to 6.6 million. In comparison, between 1981-1992, the number of welfare recipients increased by 2.5 million (a 22 percent increase) to 13.6 million people
Lowest Federal Income Tax Burden in 35 Years: Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family dropped to their lowest level in 35 years
Higher Incomes even after Taxes and Inflation: real after-tax incomes grew by an average of 2.6 percent per year for the lower-income half of taxpayers between 1993 and 1997, while growing by an average of 1.0 percent between 1981 and 1993
AGAINST TERRORISM

# PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator of anti-terrorist efforts.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold the Al Qaeda millennium hijacking and bombing plots.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to kill the Pope.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Boston airport.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.
# Bill Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).
# Bill Clinton brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.
# Bill Clinton did not blame the Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after Bush left office. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.
# Bill Clinton named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to tighten airport security. (Remember, this is before 911) The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to allow for better tracking of terrorist funding. It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to add tagents to explosives, to allow for better tracking of explosives used by terrorists. It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.
# Bill Clinton increased the military budget by an average of 14 per cent, reversing the trend under Bush I.
# Bill Clinton tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.
# Bill Clinton detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries.
# Bill Clinton created national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.
# Of Clinton's efforts says Robert Oakley, Reagan Ambassador for Counterterrorism: "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama".
# Paul Bremer, current Civilian Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley as he believed the Bill Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden.
# Barton Gellman in the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Bill Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort".
http://liberalslikechrist.org/about/clinton.html
ON THE ENVIRONMENT
Bill Clinton issued an Executive Order on Environmental Justice to ensure that low-income citizens and minorities do not suffer a disproportionate burden of industrial pollution. Launched pilot projects in low-income communities across the country to redevelop contaminated sites into useable space, create jobs and enhance community development.

President Bill Clinton sought permanent funding of $1.4 billion a year through the Lands Legacy initiative to expand federal efforts to save America's natural treasures and provide significant new resources to states and communities to protect local green spaces and protect ocean and coastal resources. Won $652 million for Lands Legacy in the FY 2000 budget, a 42 percent increase.

Launched effort to protect over 40 million acres of "roadless areas," which include some of America's last wild places. Dramatically improved management of our national forests with an ambitious new science-based agenda that places greater emphasis on recreation, wildlife and water quality, while reforming logging practices to ensure steady, sustainable supplies of timber and jobs. Balanced the preservation of old-growth stands with the economic needs of timber-dependent communities through the Pacific Northwest Forest Plan.

Adopted a uniform tailpipe standard to passenger cars, SUVs and other light-duty trucks, producing cars that are 77 percent cleaner -- and light-duty trucks up to 95 percent cleaner -- than those on the road today. Set new standard to reduce average sulfur levels in gasoline by up to 90 percent. Once fully implemented in 2030, these measures will prevent 43,000 premature deaths and 173,000 cases of childhood respiratory illness each year, and reduce emissions by the equivalent to removing 164 million cars from the road.

# Approved strong new clean air standards for soot and smog that could prevent up to 15,000 premature deaths a year and improve the lives of millions of Americans who suffer from respiratory illnesses. Defending the standards against legal assaults by polluters.

# Accelerating Toxic Waste Cleanups. Completed cleanup at 515 Superfund sites, more than three times as many as the previous two administrations, with cleanup of more than 90 percent of all sites either completed or in progress. Secured $1.4 billion in FY 2000 to continue progress toward cleaning up 900 Superfund sites by 2002.

# Providing Safe Drinking Water: Proposed and signed legislation to strengthen the Safe Drinking Water Act and ensure that our families have healthy clean tap water. Required America's 55,000 water utility companies to provide regular reports to their customers on the quality of their drinking water.

# Established EPA's Drinking Water State Revolving Fund (DWSRF) that provides grants to States to finance priority drinking water projects that meet Clean Water Act mandates. To date, the DWSRFs have provided $1.9 billion in loans to communities.

# Awarded nearly $200 million in Department of Agriculture (USDA) loans and grants for over 100 safe drinking water projects in rural areas of 40 states. USDA grants and loans target rural communities plagued by some of the nation's worst water quality and dependability problems.

# Expanded Safe Drinking Water Act protections to protect 40 million additional Americans in small communities from potentially dangerous microbes, including Cryptosporidium, in their drinking water.

# Ensuring Clean Water. Launched the Clean Water Action Plan to help clean up the 40 percent of America's surveyed waterways still too polluted for fishing and swimming. Secured $3.9 billion since 1998, a 16 percent increase, to help states, communities and landowners in reducing polluted runoff, enhancing natural resource stewardship, improving citizens' right to know, and protecting public health.

# Strengthening Communities' Right to Know. Strengthened the public's right to know about chemicals released into their air and water by partnering with the chemical industry and the environmental community in an effort to provide complete data on the potential health risks of the 2,800 most widely used chemicals. Nearly doubled the number of chemicals that industry must report to communities, while expanding the number of facilities that must report by 30 percent.

# Expanded the community right to know about releases of 27 persistent bio-accumulative toxins (including mercury, dioxin, and PCBs). These highly toxic chemicals are especially risky because they do not break down easily and are known to accumulate in the human body.

# Secured $83 million in FY 2000 for two major new efforts to restore salmon in the Pacific Northwest: $58 million for the Pacific Coastal Salmon Recovery Fund, which provides resources for states and tribes to protect and rebuild salmon stocks; and $25 million to implement the historic Pacific Salmon Treaty with Canada, which established two regional funds to improve fisheries management and enhance bilateral scientific cooperation between the two countries and provides funding to buy back fishing permits in Washington.
# Expanding Wildlife Refuges. Added 57,000 acres, including lands along the last free-flowing section of the Columbia River, to the Saddle Mountain National Wildlife Refuge to protect salmon habitat in Washington.

# Forging Partnerships to Protect Habitat. Completed 255 major Habitat Conservation Plans (HCPs), compared to 14 before the Administration took office, to protect more than 20 million acres of private land and over 170 threatened and endangered species. These voluntary agreements protect habitat while providing landowners the certainty they need to effectively manage their lands.

# Strengthening Protections for Wildlife. Signed legislation that strengthens protections for wildlife by mandating that the most important use of our nation's wildlife refuges is giving refuge to migratory birds and other animals reliant on this rich system of natural habitat.

Protecting our Oceans and Coasts

# Creating Comprehensive Oceans Policy. Directed the development of key recommendations for strengthening federal oceans policy for the 21st century and appointed a high-level task force to oversee the implementation of those recommendations. Convened a National Ocean Conference in June 1998 that brought together government experts, business executives, scientists, environmentalists, elected officials and the public to examine opportunities and challenges in restoring and protecting our ocean resources.

# Strengthening Our National Marine Sanctuaries. Secured a funding increase of over 100% to better support national marine sanctuaries -- homes to coral reefs, kelp forests, humpback whales, and loggerhead turtles. Supporting the five-year Sustainable Seas Expeditions to explore, study and document ways to better protect underwater resources.

# Preserving Coral Reefs. Issued an Executive Order to expand protection of coral reefs and their ecosystems to address issues of coral reef management, expansion of marine protected areas and increased protections for coral reef species.

# Protecting Marine Mammals. Led negotiations resulting in a multilateral agreement to protect dolphins in the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean. Issued new standards to protect the endangered northern right whale from injuries from ships by instituting a first-ever ship reporting requirement in two areas of right whale critical habitat. Fought for creation of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, an area of more than 12 million square miles off the coast of Antarctica.

# Banning Ocean Dumping of Toxic Waste. Led the world in calling for a global ban on ocean dumping of low-level radioactive waste. The U.S. was the first nuclear power to advocate the ban.

Introduced "Better America Bonds" to generate $10.75 billion in bond authority over five years to preserve open space, improve water quality and clean up abandoned and contaminated properties known as brownfields. Local communities can work together in partnerships with land trust groups, environmentalists, business leaders and others to develop innovative solutions to their community's development challenges.

# Provided leadership critical to successful negotiation of the Kyoto Protocol, which sets strong, realistic targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and establishes flexible, market-based mechanisms to achieve them as cost-effectively as possible.

# Investing in Clean Energy Research. Won more than $1 billion in FY 1999 and in FY 2000 for the Climate Change Technology Initiative, a program of clean energy research and development that will save energy and consumers money. Extended the tax credits for wind and biomass energy production through 2001, reducing emissions and reliance on imported oil.

# Growing Clean Energy Technologies. Issued an Executive Order to coordinate federal efforts to spur the development and use of bio-based technologies, which can convert crops, trees and other "biomass" into a vast array of fuels and materials. Set a goal of tripling our use of bioenergy and bioproducts by 2010 to reduce annual greenhouse gas emissions by up to 100 million tons a year -- the equivalent of taking 70 million cars off the road.

# Improving Scientific Understanding. Increased funding for the United States Global Change Research Program to more than $1.7 billion in FY 2000 to provide a sound scientific understanding of both the human and natural forces that influence the Earth's climate system. This record research budget continues strong support for the "Carbon Cycle Initiative" begun last year to improve our understanding of the role of farms, forests, and other natural or managed lands in capturing carbon.

# Energy Efficiency Standards for Appliances. Issued new energy efficiency standards for refrigerators, refrigerator-freezers, freezers and room air conditioners that will save consumers money and reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and dependence on foreign oil. The new standards will cut the average appliance's energy usage by 30 percent and save more than seven quadrillion BTUs of energy over the next 30 years, more than seven times the annual energy consumption of the entire state of Arkansas.

# Promoting federal Energy Efficiency. Issued an Executive Order directing federal agencies to reduce energy use in buildings 35 percent by 2010, reducing annual greenhouse gas emissions by the equivalent of taking 1.7 million cars off the road and saving taxpayers over $750 million a year. Forged new partnerships with industry to develop and promote energy-saving cars, homes and consumer products with the potential to save Americans hundreds of millions of dollars in energy bills and significantly curb greenhouse gas pollution.
http://www.environmentalcaucus.org/gore.html
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. yes life under the last Clinton administration sucked, glad we can agree on that.
:sarcasm:
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Wow!
I love Bill Clinton. :loveya:
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. I can't say I'm suprise...
Lots of rabid righties prefer Hillary over McCain...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1fd_1201863769
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. The RW is going through a lot of mental anguish right now
Edited on Fri Feb-01-08 07:54 PM by Gman
but what you're saying means they hate McCain significantly more than they hate Hillary. They hate McCain much beyond the point that they would be able to at least hold their noses and vote for him.

And, I don't know what's up with it, but now Anthrax Coulter says she will support Hillary? Just imagine the pain the RW is in right now.

And too old? That's an excuse. They had no problem voting for Reagan when he was in his 70's so that's not an excuse.

It's hilarious.
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. the Coulter thing was amazing!
I love it. They just don't even know what to do with themselves, and its great.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. she needs a good psy evaluation.
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. it's true.
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never_get_over_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. Face it
with swiftboating, voter suppression and electronic voting BOTH Obama and Clinton have electability issues
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Well sure, any Democrat does. They've stolen the last two, I dont see why they would stop now.
Edited on Fri Feb-01-08 07:59 PM by toadzilla
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never_get_over_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. Exactly my point
which is why I have nightmares....
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. so so so many have overplayed "electability"
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. DC Insiders and Business Leaders Do Seem Comfortable with Her
I think Clinton is going to be portrayed very well by the talking heads and be eminently electable. I am more concerned about Obama's electability.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. So, you're saying she gets the Republican racist misogynists' vote?
:hi:

Actually, I know some people like that myself, but they *were* voting for Edwards. Now I think they're staying home.
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes, maybe. That's ok if it helps her get into the WH. They won't
influence her at all.
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. yep!
it's sad really....
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DiamondJay Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
23. racist is stronger than sexism
Edited on Fri Feb-01-08 08:08 PM by DiamondJay
and that is why clinton is more electable than obama. we need to look in that the only people in america who wouldn't mind electing a black man are us open minded liberals and dems, race-conscious conservatives and republicans will not. the sterotypes are too strong these days, and aren't going away. especially with the middle name hussein, and a last name that is one letter away from Osama
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I so wish that wasn't true,
but i fear that it may be.

....but just a little bit. I think Obama would crush McCain.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Can't agree. Both are institutionally woven into our society and our psyche.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
29. Hillary Clinton the next president...damn that sounds good and true.
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. the thought of a female president does give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. I disagree.
Look at this story

After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton-

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html?ex=1359435600&en=23a4d96223965ebf&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

The Clintons (and yes you have to talk abut both) are vulnerable on many fronts, all centered around ethics. Meanwhile McCain is Mr. anti-pork, which is very popular this year.

I still think that Obama is the much stronger candidate.
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. He has a lot less baggage
thats for sure...
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
33. I'm voting for Hillary because she'll be one of the best presidents we have ever had (eom)
x
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
37. Anecdotally, I have concerns.
I have run across a couple of habitual Republicans who have admitted they would vote for any of the Democrats over any of the Republicans running. However. I have run across way too many Democrats of my acquaintance who have said they will abstain from voting rather than vote for Clinton. An abstention is a vote for a Republican. I have serious concerns.
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toadzilla Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. but an abstension from a republican is a vote for a Democrat!
win win!
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. I worry about that myself
I know a few republicans and Independents who will never vote for Mrs Clinton but are enamored with Obama.
I don't believe they are all that much different as candidates so i am making my choice on who I believe is the most electable.
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