MoveOn's move will alienate many of their supporters

[Politicub]

And anyone reading this message will clearly see who I'm supporting for the dem nominee. But I was surprised that MoveOn decided to take a straw poll and then endorse one of the dem candidates.

I'm a MoveOn member. I've donated money to them in the past, and generally wholly embrace their campaigns.

After much soul searching, and even with the risk of seeming petty and full of sour grapes, which will invite DU ridicule, I decided to cancel my subscription to the MoveOn.org emails and make that known on DU. I believe MoveOn's endorsement vote is divisive, and I honestly can say that I would feel the same way if Hillary would have been the winner of the unscientific poll.

I was an original contributor to MoveOn, when the goal of the group was to petition congress to censure President Clinton and "Move On" to more important business. For this donation, I received a bumper sticker that I proudly displayed on my car. I supported them through the early years of Bush, and saw them as a beacon of reason in a media landscape that was barren of anything resembling common sense. I donated to have the Betray Us ad published. I sent them money several times for things I don't even remember, even being a monthly contributor for 8 months or so.

I may join up again, but it will take a while for me to do that. And it will probably be driven by them doing something worthwhile that I read about on DU or elsewhere.

But, since MoveOn clearly places a lot of stock in counting things, I thought it was important signal my displeasure with the vote to endorse someone by unsubscribing from their mailing list and leaving the group. It's time for me to move on to groups where I'm welcome.

[David Zephyr]

1. I disagree.

I just sent them money.

[ursi]

46. I just voted in that poll and then I sent them money!

[roguevalley]

57. no matter who they endorsed, someone would be ticked off.

[thunder rising]

2. I'm for Obama and I too thought it was rushed. I'm glad Obama was chosen, but I thought MoveOn

pushed it. Come on back when your ready. I was a Deaniac and was at the "Scream Speech" I know waht betrayal feels like.

[Politicub]

6. Thanks for your post

I have nothing against Obama, and congrats to him for winning, too. In fact, I loved how he and Hillary looked together on stage during the debate last night. That's why I find MoveOn's vote so utterly bizarre.

[Freida5]

3. Absolutely great post. I cannot believe Move On endorsed.

I opted out of mailing list and will not contribute again. Not a big contributor but at least $500 each year.

[Politicub]

8. I didn't really like unsubscribing, but

I hope it sends a message.

[emilyg]

63. I didn't either but did.

[Bluestar]

4. I'm with you--everything you just said

Just finished off a nasty-gram to Eli Pariser. I'm sure he doesn't care and will never read it but it made me feel better.

[no name no slogan]

5. Yes, at least 30% of them.

nt

[Freida5]

10. It is more than 30%. Many of us were not given the opportunity to vote.

[jasmine621]

18. You are right about that. I am a member and I received not e-mail ballot. nt

[robbedvoter]

59. Only 10% of membership got ballots - a "roving sample"

[wndycty]

7. You mean the folks who voted?

This is just BS, they ran an online poll and Obama won. This is just childish.

[Politicub]

15. Maybe- I have no problem with the poll, but I do take issue with an endoresment

[Irishonly]

29. I was emailed

I didn't vote in the poll because I still am an Edwards supporter. I had already voted by absentee when he suspended his run. I will support the nominee in November but I could see no reason to vote. It wasn't based on contributions because I have never sent money to moveon. It seemed to me it was a very small sampling. I am sorry they got into the primary race. In 2004 I had never heard of DU or moveon so I don't know if they did it then or not.

[Jed Dilligan]

9. I'm sure they weighed their decision

and assumed some people would drop out because of this. Apparently they thought it was an important enough thing to do that they were willing to take the loss. Maybe, as reply #1 suggests, they are also hoping to recruit Obama supporters to their cause.

I respect their decision, your decision, and the decision of anyone who now decides to support MoveOn. I never joined because I don't have money to give them. I thought their press release was misleading and I can see how Hillary-supporting members (around 947,000 if you project from their poll at face value) would feel abused by their characterization of the results.

[Politicub]

14. Especially since the group was formed during the Clinton impeachment era

That's when I signed up. It bothers be that they did this. Truly. since I agree with 99% of what they do.

[Jed Dilligan]

24. I didn't know--thought they were an anti-shrub group.

I was politically apathetic/disgusted until 2000.

[Politicub]

28. Ironic, isn't it? The group that was formed to help the first Clinton

disses his spouse.

[Maribelle]

30. 90% of MoveOn's 3.5 million members did not vote for Obama.

MoveOn is in big trouble with this fraud, I would think.

[Jed Dilligan]

33. Fraud? That's pretty harsh.

I know you're hurting, but if misrepresenting survey results was a crime, half the political and most of the corporate world would be in jail.

[Maribelle]

38. Please - over 90%? Those are massive numbers. "Misrepresenting" is too mild, by far.

This goes far beyond any sense of credibility.

MoveOn's character went into free fall today, without a chute.

[Politicub]

40. Sad, isn't it? And I thought they were above this kind of crap.

Seriously.

[Jed Dilligan]

41. Show me one national poll that samples over 10%

and I'll discuss this with you. You realize that, for a national poll, this would mean getting data for more than 14 million people.

Do you have any idea how much survey research costs? If I were a MoveOn member, I would be angrier over how much they spent on this survey than over how they used the results.

People who don't understand survey research and post about it anyway make me want to :puke:

[Politicub]

45. This wasn't a poll, it was a vote. Scientific polls are not self-selecting

Look it up. That's not how you obtain a real sample of opinion. MoveOn's vote was about as good of a barometer of public opinion as a user vote on cnn.com. Useless. And it was disingenuous for MoveOn to say "70% of their members support Obama," because this is patently not true. It would be true to say that 70% of the people who chose to vote support Obama, but this does not equate to the opinion of the whole membership.

Big difference.

[Jed Dilligan]

73. You're twisting things up...

The BEST methodology, though by far not the only one, for finding a population's opinions is random selection. Until someone shows me a good reason why the people who decided to vote were biased toward Obama, I am willing to take the result at face value.

Voting, on the other hand, is always self-selected. If they polled a random sample of Americans rather than a self-selected sample, I imagine the results of any election would differ more than if MoveOn had used random sampling.

You can't have it both ways. MoveOn measured the opinions of their membership, believed in the measure, and acted accordingly. I believe the measure is accurate, because it seems to reflect the opinions of DU, which politically seems to align pretty well with MoveOn.

[Maribelle]

50. The news is reporting that the MoveOn members voted for Obama.

The news is not saying it was a random sample based on scientific properties. And it wasn't. On top of that, no national polling firm would remain in business if the did not apply scientific selection principals to its polling process.

[nonconformist]

51. Maybe you're right, since so many of Obama's supporters aren't progressives...

Or even Democrats. I doubt some of them were members anyway. Maybe they want to get those people on board.

Meanwhile, they lost this long-time, donating, life-long Democrat member. They should have NEVER taken sides in the primary.

[DJ13]

11. Isnt this same kind of attempted censorship we've long criticized the GOP for?

"The NYT? Who reads THAT liberal rag!"

"CNN? Oh I cant watch that, they dont support my Christian conservative ideals! I only watch Fox News!"

[Egnever]

12. You aren't welcome?

I understand you are upset but...

I doubt you aren't welcome. If you don't like what they are doing at the moment don't contribute but I think you are taking this a little too personally.

[Politicub]

20. It's the only way I know to signal that I disagree with MoveOn for

this endorsement vote. I was feeling a tremendous, refreshing sense of dem unity last night following the debate and after reading the Obama/Hillary lovefest emails on DU. And then this endorsement was as if a needle scratched on a record, since MoveOn is a group I've always valued.

And I realize that no one is perfect. No group is perfect. But this was bone headed decision on their part, and I just choose to donate my very hard earned money elsewhere, and to organizations that don't smack its users directly in the face.

For example, the ACLU may take up cases that I disagree with, but they've never tried to divide their members like this. That's what's strange to me about this straw poll and endorsement.

[Uben]

13. Real nice of them, wasn't it

If you support Clinton, they are now using your money to support the opposition. That is not ethically right.

[CyberPieHole]

16. I canceled my membership and wrote them why I was doing so...

I won't support MoveOn.org ever again.

[Maribelle]

17. The biggest problem is that MoveOn pretends majority of its 3.5 million folks wanted Obama

This couldn't be further from the truth. I am ashamed at MoveOn's deceptive practices. I thought they were above this. They had me fooled.

I guess the term MoveOn now merely means a disorder with elimination of waste. Nothing more.

[Politicub]

22. I thought they would be above this too

And how many of my recent contributions are going to support Obama right now? Not that I have anything against Obama, he's a great candidate, it's just I'm backing Hillary for the primary because I'm in deeper agreement with her positions.

[benddem]

19. It was a vote

some places still practice democracy.

[Maribelle]

21. Less than 10 percent voted. Quorum anyone? Let's pretend members wanted Obama.

When in truth a tiny fraction of the organization wanted Obama. Closer to the truth would be that over 90% of the organization did not want to support anyone.

[Freida5]

23. And how did they select voters. If you live in Chicago you can vote, the rest of us can't

[bunnies]

67. bullshit.

I live in NH and I got to vote.

[Politicub]

25. It was a vote - it wasn't a poll so they can't extrapolate that 70%

of their members are behind Obama. It's not true. On their face, internet polls are self selecting, and not a scientific survey. It was unethical of MoveOn to present the vote as a poll in their press release.

[comradebillyboy]

26. yes I terminated my membership with Move On

today because of this endorsement. I may rejoin if the republicans take control of the government again.

[Freida5]

27. Many of us criticized the Republicans for fixing the vote. Did they use Diebolds?

[ihavenobias]

31. Answer *Honestly*: If It Were Hillary, Would You Be So Upset?

The PC answer is to say "yes, of course I would" but really think about it because it's far too easy to give that answer as a reflex. Saying "I don't know" is a fair answer here too.

It's quite possible Obama supporters would be acting the same way if the situation were reveresed but obviously we can't know that. For the record, yes, I do find the MoveOn bashing annoying *but* I am an Obama supporter (now that Edwards is gone).

[Politicub]

35. Truthfully, it would have been nice to see Hillary win, but I would

still have an issue with this endorsement of a primary nominee. I was feeling better about Obama after the debate last night and seeing him and Hillary up on stage that I ever have since the race began. So it was ill timed, too.

[Maribelle]

36. For what it's worth, I would not only be upset, I would be disgusted.

I would hope Hillary would reject the fraudulent claim of MoveOn. I truly believe she is above this.

[ihavenobias]

53. You believe Hillary is "above it"?

Interesting. Is she also above trying to get MI and FL delegates?

[Maribelle]

62. Try learning about uncommitted delegates going to the convention.

States other than MI and FL will be sending them already.

[RFKJrNews]

32. I was totally surprised by the MoveOn endorsement

because neither Clinton nor Obama are "anti-war candidates".

Isn't MoveOn supposed to be an "anti-war organization?"

[Maribelle]

43. Obama said he is not "anti-war"

Over and over.

He is, however, anti-dumb-war, but he never really clearly defines his interpretation of how he "knows" when a war is dumb, he just says he knows.

[mondo joe]

34. Well, I'm done with MoveOn. I'm not upset, but I think it was a poor choice

on their part.

There are plenty of good causes I can pay attention to.

[Politicub]

37. That's how I feel too

There are lots of great causes out there that can use my hard earned money.

[rucky]

39. Do elected officials alienate their consitiuents when they endorse?

If so, why hasn't there been a stink about it?

[Politicub]

42. This isn't an elected official. It's a PAC which people donate money to

Big difference. I expected them to stay neutral, and then work to get the Dem nominee elected.

And I don't think the order in which they solicited funds. Last week, two weeks ago or something they asked for money for their democratic voter drive project to defeat the GOP. And this week they ask for an endorsement vote? Doesn't make sense to me.

[rucky]

44. A neutral PAC?

their supporters vote on which issues to take a stand on. It's more democratic than superdelegates.

[Politicub]

48. A progressive PAC - that I donated money to

which is now working against the candidate I'm supporting. They shouldn't have done this. They will be weakened by it for the general election.

Or maybe not. Maybe the Obama supporters will fall head over heels for MoveOn and fill their coffers with even more fundage. If so, good for them. I hope it helps a dem get elected in November.

[Maribelle]

47. The news is saying that the MoveOn members voted for Obama.

However over 90% of their 3.5 million members did not vote for Obama.

It is a total fraud, which can only speak for itself.

[Melinda]

49. Oh, Bullshit. MoveOn is and has been the primary anti-war movement org. since 9/11

Organizational wise, that is. MoveOn has opposed Senator Clinton's IWR vote sience she cast it, and has not supported her presidential aspirations since.

MoveOn was birthed in response to the rapid Right Wing agenda against former President Clinton, and continues to font against all things hate driven, most especially war.

"Our goal is to make it impossible to ignore the anti-war sentiment in this country." – Eli Pariser of MoveOn.org

Anyone who professes to have been a staunch supporter of MoveOn but who is now suddenly shocked and appalled by MoveOn's failure to endorse Senator Clinton is full of crap.

Real members of MoveOn.org know what MoveOn.org is all about, and war isn't any part of us.

[Clintonite]

52. Fuck move on! They will NEVER get another dollar from me.

Although I am glad they did not endorse Hillary because that would hurt her in the general.

[ErnestoG]

69. Spoken like a true cultist.

Bravo!

[stillcool]

54. Move on...

[newmajority]

55. Why the HELL would MoveOn members be supporting a DLC candidate in the first place

Let alone expect them to endorse one.

[Occam Bandage]

56. Yes. 30%. I think they figured that out.

[robbedvoter]

61. out of 10%

[robbedvoter]

58. Using your money against your candidate - deceptive and fraudulent - I quit too

and you may want to check out this thread to see you're hardly alone
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4336413

[tandem5]

60. I've dropped them - no more money. nt

[femrap]

64. At first MoveOn asked IF they should

endorse.....THAT was the first mistake. I responded NO...it's the Primary, not the General Election.

I, too, unsubscribed.

I think MoveOn is politically very, very NAIVE. And they will regret this decision. Especially if McCain becomes President at the age of 72 with Huckabee as VP.

I am not one of those over-confident Dems. There are a hell of a lot stupid people out there who voted for W TWICE who don't have a pot to piss in.

ETA: Did anyone watch "Now" tonight....stupid asshole people who are being foreclosed on and they are still voting against ABORTION!!!! DAMN, I WISH THERE WERE A LAW AGAINST BEING STUPID!!!

Please, Dems....don't become arrogant.

[robbedvoter]

71. Idiots!

[flyarm]

65. i stopped giving move on money when they refused to do or say anything about our voting machines in

Florida..

they get not a dime from me..

and i won't go to meetings by them either.

And in 2004 i did some speaking at their meetings..

and now ..i have no dog in the race but i refused to vote in their poll..as i can't stand either candidate.

fly

[mia]

66. Their nod to Obama = Bush's touting of Hillary's White House experience

Little kisses of death for both of them in my opinion. I hope the voters forget about it come November.

Either Hillary or Obama will lead our country well. They can do without self-serving endorsements.

[ErnestoG]

68. Oh yes, at least ten on DU!

MoveOn is finished. FINISHED I tell you!

[vanboggie]

70. I ;just unsubscribed

I'm on a mission to do that since John Edwards' bid for the Presidency ended. Any list I'm on that is pushing Hill-o-Bama gets cancelled.

[BenDavid]

72. All right Move-On, can I tell you something?

We're gonna win this thing. We're gonna get the votes we need and we're gonna win this thing. And you know what I'm gonna do after that, I mean that very night, I'm gonna go to Sam & Harry's, I'm gonna order a big steak, and I'm gonna make a list of everybody who tried to fuck us.