Is DU tolerating attacks on MoveOn now? What next? FDR? Robert Kennedy?

[usregimechange]

Christ! Not on the DU I remember! This is not the pro-war DLC corporatist forum.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. MoveOn is a "fringe" 527??

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. "All Fired Up for the 90s"?

Wasn't that awhile ago? And no, MoveOn is not a "fringe" group -- unless you lean Republican. I consider myself to be pretty mainstream. And to me, the DLC is, if not a "fringe" group, an irrelevant bunch of apologists for pro-corporate politics as usual.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

30. This has to be some kind of sockpuppet spoof.

There's no way someone names themselves that in earnest! :rofl:

[The Magistrate]

55. Whatever It Was, Ma'am, It Is No Longer Among Us....

"Kill one, warn one hundred."

[neutron]

67. Don't give Angry MoveOn Members a Voice!

Censor them. Kick them off, like Daily Kos.

[neutron]

69. MoveOn Pulled a Sneaky on its Members

and deserves more than a pounding.
It deserves to go into oblivion.

[neutron]

71. Krugman on Obama's Economic plan

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/07/krugman-attacks-obamas-l_n_75848.html

Both Hillary Clinton and John Edwards seem comfortable with and knowledgeable about economic policy.  It doesn't seem that the same can be said for Barack Obama.  Krugman calls his campaign's response to the latest wave of bad economic news "disreputable."  
Obama's top economic adviser claimed that the long-term tax-cut plan the candidate announced months ago is just what we need to keep the slump from "morphing into a drastic decline in consumer spending." Hmm: claiming that the candidate is all-seeing, and that a tax cut originally proposed for other reasons is also a recession-fighting measure - doesn't that sound familiar?  On Sunday Mr. Obama came out with a real stimulus plan. As was the case with his health care plan, which fell short of universal coverage, his stimulus proposal is similar to those of the other Democratic candidates, but tilted to the right.
Krugman notes that the Obama plan contains none of the alternative energy initiatives that are in both the Edwards and Clinton proposals, and emphasizes across-the-board tax cuts over both aid to the hardest-hit families and help for state and local governments.
I know that Mr. Obama's supporters hate to hear this, but he really is less progressive than his rivals on matters of domestic policy.

[neutron]

72. somebody post the above message as a topic

[thunder rising]

12. Barack welcomed the endorsement and the DLC is Hillary's club ...get a clue

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[thunder rising]

32. Herald Ford is a looser. He tried the DLC line of Bush Lite and went down in flames

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[The Velveteen Ocelot]

34. ....

:puke:

Al From, Harold Ford and John Breaux all deserve a swift kick in the pants.

[tkmorris]

48. Those 3 are PRECISELY what is wrong with our party

Throw Rahm Emmanuel into the mix and you'd create such a black hole of suckage time would stand still.

You cannot be for real.

[stimbox]

57. Obama is the stealth DLC candidate.

We have a choice of the out and proud DLCer Hillary or the on the down low DLCer Obama.
Oh boy. Whomever we vote for the DLC wins!
MoveOn should have waited until after the primary to endorse, imho.

[neutron]

70. How many members has MoveON Lost

after MoveOn dumped on them?

[stimbox]

76. Quite a few i reckon. n/t

[Seen the light]

13. Um.....welcome to DU?

Enjoy your stay.

[AllFiredUpForThe90s]

15. Thanks

nt

[UALRBSofL]

56. Is there not a place under the democratic umbrella

For both centrist and progressive democrats? I'm just asking.

[bvar22]

61. It depends:

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[movonne]

17. Hi , do you like it over here....what a stupid remark..

[The Magistrate]

2. People Are Entitled To Disagree With The Organization, Sir

[usregimechange]

6. That is fine but not what I am talking about, clearly.

[robbedvoter]

18. Especially contributing members whose money are diverted against their own

candidate after a "riving sample" election.

[Spiffarino]

33. Cheese it....it's the MODS!

Seriously, thank you for upholding the First Amendment.

[aquart]

3. Ah. We're not allowed to question the actions of "our side."

Is that the Obama administration's policy? To be just like Bush?

on edit: That son of a bitch RFK let the Eugene McCarthy supporters do all the work, win the delegates, and then strolled in with the expectation of walking away with the election. Not everybody thinks dear Bobby was the Great One we have been waiting for.

[AX10]

5. His supporters make it seem that way.

[usregimechange]

9. "Questioning" is not what I am talking about, clearly.

[Kittycat]

4. Maybe we need a forum like that.

The Pro-War DLC Corporatist forum. That will calm things down in here quite a bit.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[usregimechange]

14. I was conflating ideas that we use to oppose in the hopes than we still would

[thunder rising]

21. The DLC IS CORPORATIST as is Hillary who is a stalwart member

The DLC is the Bush Lite organization that selected Kerry in '04 and then got beat by trying to be just a little softer version of the killers in charge.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Kittycat]

37. I'll take a pass on your endorsement of Ford, and just go with Dean. Thank you.

[thunder rising]

40. EXACTLY!! That's why Queen Hillary must be stopped to protect the party. She will fire Howard Dean

[ErnestoG]

42. How's that for gratitude? Dean won us the Congress back!

He and his 50 state strategy was a success. Hillary Clinton is a disgusting ingrate who would prefer to tell Dean to fuck off.

I have another suggestion for her, but I don't like talking that way to ladies.

[AllFiredUpForThe90s]

46. Hillary and Howard and Judy Dean are very close.

Clinton does not represent the slash-and-burn politics of old. She will be competitive in all 50 states and a windfall to the yellow dogs competing in red areas.

[thunder rising]

47. Yep, everybody that know the DLC and Hillary, knows if she wins Dean is out and the Dem Party will

split. Hence, MoveOn's endorsement of Obama.
Want one sacred cow: Howard Dean, touch him and find out how fringe we are.

[thunder rising]

39. I am FAR LEFT ... BEEN FAR LEFT and I've BEEN HERE

I despise the DLC and Hillary and I'm still trying to figure out if Kerry and Ted had strokes or a "a moment of clarity" when presented with a true democratic nominee, Obama.

[cobalt1999]

11. No group or person is immune from criticism

Not sure what DU you remember where someone or some organization was considered "off limits". Hell, we go after everyone and everything here, and have for a long time.

[usregimechange]

22. I agree but note that I wasn't talking about criticism.

[cobalt1999]

35. You'll have to differentiate "attack" from "criticism"

Since this is just a message board with opinions being shared, there is no physical attack, only criticism. Maybe I don't understand your post, what's the difference?

[jlake]

16. Why is it not okay to criticize a group that may be damaging the Democratic Party?

[usregimechange]

20. I am not talking about "criticism" clearly. Re-read the title, thanks.

[jlake]

26. I haven't seen anything I would call an attack on Moveon.

Do you have a link?

[mondo joe]

43. I didn't see any attacks. Link please?

Thanks.

[movonne]

28. Thank you...

[newmajority]

73. You mean the DLC?

Nobody has damaged the Democratic party more than those assclowns.

[andyrowe]

24. Truman was an idiot! Down with Social Security!

:sarcasm:

[usregimechange]

29. If Truman would have endorsed Obama, we would hear it.

[sjdnb]

38. Truman was an idiot ... he nuked Nagasaki and Hiroshima

One of the WORST, most horrific, actions ever taken by any human being on this planet. 90,000 to 140,000 died from the burns and radiation.

Photographs

[robbedvoter]

25. You want to list the sacred cows we're not allowed to touch? a PATRIOT Act for DU?

Arrogance, and then more arrogance!

[usregimechange]

49. Touching is fine, attacking progressive organizations is not

[sjdnb]

51. Especially when they use Truman as an example ... for Christsake

The only person in the history of the world to use nuclear weapons against a civilian population - and, inaccurately crediting him for Social Security (which was an FDR initiative in 1935). Truman actually 'trimmed' FDR's initial plan.

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. Sure.

We tolerate attacks on the DLC, right?

People are allowed to dissent.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. I totally agree. I'm just surprised that all of a sudden MoveOn is The Enemy of the Party

considering how enthusiastically most DUers have supported the organization for its strong and consistent antiwar stance. I would never support suppressing criticism of them, but I'm amazed at all the hostility.

For my part, I will continue to kick the asses of the DLC.

MoveOn rawks.

[ErnestoG]

45. MoveOn committed the grievous sin of denying the Queen her pie.

Stay tuned, it's going to get alot dumber.

[thunder rising]

50. By Hillary bots that never donate shit in their life. Hillary only exists because of Corporation $$

Her supporters are like Republicans. They talk a lot but will not support their candidate, leaving that to the corporations.

[thunder rising]

44. We tolerate attacks on the DLC, right? the answer is: absolutely! Harold Ford is a Dean wannabee

but without the charisma or following or skill or ...

[Hoof Hearted]

52. Why on earth not?

I've seen Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, a good Democrat who has given most of her adult life and fought for womens rights all over the world, stood toe-to-toe against the right wing machine and been through more shit in her life than you and I will most likely ever have to face called every single derogatory misogynistic epithet imaginable here.

Others I've seen attacked for supporting her?

Maxine Waters
Maya Angelou
RFK Jr.
Wesley Clark
Walter Mondale

These are just a select few that spring to mind.

MoveOn made the decision to meddle in the primaries, and so put themselves up for scrutiny and backlash.

[truedelphi]

59. Also the MoveOn Organization gets a certain amount of backlash because

From the fact that they IGNORED the voting reform movement all the long months of 2004.

And then when Bush walked away with the stolen election, MoveOn was like, "Ohmi gawd! Jeez what happened??"

They thought it mattered to sign up millions of voters.

And it would have, if the electronic voting machinery had not made it possible to switcheroo the vote, erase the vote, and steal the election.

Voting reform activists wanted to explain that possibility to them. However MoveOn is a Top Down organization, and unless you have a lot of power, you can't necessarily get their attention.

They have no national organization phone number, and the emails are from Eli Parrisher to the recipient - but there isn't any way for the recipient to respond.

[sidwill]

53. Didn't you get the Memo?

Th Clintons ARE the DEmocratic party. They are the Alpha and the Omega all other must assimiliate or be crushed.

Or worse yet not voted for if Hil loses the primary's cause "wahhhh my candidate didn't win so I'm taking my vote and goin home wahhhh"

[Thrill]

54. Hillary supporters are out of control

attacking Move-On. Some of these idiots need to be restrained

[robbedvoter]

62. Restrained, huh? What do you propose? tasers? duct tape over mouth? Confiscate computers?

Beatings? Arrests? Waterboarding?

[LVjinx]

58. So...

How are those links coming?

[Warren Stupidity]

60. The dog fight in Gross Disgusting Pwnage

has no rules and no safe haven. Just stay out. Too bad the posts here allowed to the greatest page.

[LiveLiberally]

63. I can understand why Move-On's endorsement is so controversial BUT...

aren't we -- as progressives -- being short-sighted here? I worked with Move-on in 2004 as a precinct leader and I know firsthand we had a real impact in WI going "Blue" for Kerry/Edwards. Move-On has made it clear that irrespective of their endorsement they will support financially and organizationally the democratic nominee. And frankly, Coulter-Rush-Hannity sniping notwithstanding, it is highly unlikely that Republican in-fighting will lead to a November cake-walk. We will need Move-on to win. So while I can understand the indignation and anger -- and the need to vent it now -- I can only hope that once this winter of partisan discontent is over we can join ranks again. As a new member of DU, I know I don't need to remind anyone here of the stakes.

[Evergreen Emerald]

64. I am not a pro-war corporatist. I am a Clinton supporter

And It is my democratic right to stop funding MoveOn if I disagree with them. They blew it by supporting someone ahead of the primary.

[TexasObserver]

65. Lord a mighty, I feel my temperature risin'.

Simma down now.

I completely understand the anger and anguish of those who are pissed about the move dot org endorsement. You do know there's value in letting people blow off their steam, right? Why undermine or devalue that?

I am reminded of Roger Williams, whose criteria for salvation became so high he expelled from its auspices everyone, including his wife, but himself. There's such a thing as trying too hard to impose one's judgments on others.

[krkaufman]

66. It's a Democratic forum ...

... and many Democrats may be upset that MoveOn has taken sides in the primary. I don't know if there's a precedent, but I expected the blowback.

[BringBigDogBack]

68. Kicked and reccomended.

Fuck war supporters, and fuck any candidate who can't admit to a mistake as HUGE as this one.

[depakid]

74. Moveon probably should have stayed out of the primaries...

but even so, it does illustrate a propensity to attack the messenger, no matter how impressive their credentials are. Not an attractive quality, and not one that's likely to garner support for their candidate.

[Perry Logan]

75. Since we regularly call our own leaders cowards and traitors, I guess we can attack MoveOn a little.

[mdmc]

77. wrong!