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Obama ad inaccurate, "Politics of Hope" just more dirty politics

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:47 AM
Original message
Obama ad inaccurate, "Politics of Hope" just more dirty politics
LOS ANGELES – Last night's presidential candidates debate between Sens. Clinton and Obama might have been as cordial as an ice cream social, but it didn't take long for the gloves to come off again.

Sen. Clinton's campaign held a conference call with reporters this morning, blasting a mailer that Obama has sent out, calling its claim that Clinton's healthcare plan forces people to sign up, and penalizes those who don't, disingenuous and a slur straight from the insurance industry playbook. One speaker on the call said it was as "outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Illinois."

"Democrats are looking for Harry Truman and Senator Obama is giving them Harry and Louise," said Dr. Irwin Redlener, Professor of Public Health and Pediatrics at Columbia University and health advisor to the Clinton campaign.

Irwin was referring to an infamous 1993 television commercial, titled "Harry and Louise," which the Health Insurance Association of America ran against First Lady Clinton's universal healthcare proposal before it failed. In that ad, a couple sits at a kitchen table, trying to figure out how to pay for Clinton's plan, as a voiceover declares: "If we let the government chose we lose."

In the Obama mailer, a couple also is seen sitting at a kitchen table, with these words printed on the page: "Hillary's health care plan forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it."

Another person on the call was Peter Harbage, a former health advisor to John Edwards. Harbage said he wasn't speaking for Edwards and that he hasn't joined up with a new campaign, but that he was so angered by the mail piece that he decided to speak out about it.

Any policy that would achieve universal coverage, he said, has to include some kind of mandate.
"It's about making sure everyone participates in the health care system," said Harbage, "and pays in what they can afford."

That ensures not only that everyone has access to health care but also that costs will be lower, he said. Other payers in the system bear the cost when uninsured people end up in the emergency room.

Obama himself conceded that when he called for mandatory coverage for children, Harbage said. He also argues that Obama is wrong when he suggests that affordability is the only barrier to health care.

If that were so, said Harbage, there wouldn't be millions of people currently eligible for public programs who do not take advantage of them nor "millions of people" who" make more than $100,000 without health insurance.

"The most disappointing thing for me about the mailer is that it's misleading about what Sen. Clinton has been talking about and what Sen. Obama has been talking about," he said.

Later in the call, Len Nichols of the New America Foundation threw this line out: "I am personally outraged at the picture used in this mailing," he said.

"It is as outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Illinois," Nichols said. "I just find it disgusting that this kind of imagery is being used to attack the only way to get to universal coverage."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/clinton_camp_obama_ad_inaccura.html
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Does Obama remember this "Harry and Louise" crap...
is what sunk the Democrats in 1994.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Insurance companies played the Harry and Louise card to the masses..
and were responsible for sinking Hillary's Health Care Plan in 93'.. spending $300,000,000..to do it!

Obama is your friend, please vote for him!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. Obama will do any thing to win--YES HE WILL.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Candidates usually try to win, very good. But Hillary gets amnesia about her votes...
and that worries me.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. oh come now--you know Obama said that to clinton, then obamacampers kept
tossing it out like it was a revaltion from on high.

I tossed it back
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think the mailer
was uncalled for but saying "It is as outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Illinois," is a bit drama queenish.

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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The mailer was uncalled for?!
OMG! A Man and a Woman at the Kitchen table. What a BASTARD!

huh?
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Oh, yeah, that was the offensive part.
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
36. yeah, yeah, Obamanation has turned to real dirty politics. the politices of Hope be dammed
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ThatPoetGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. It does sound ridiculous, and it makes me think of Godwin's law.
But then I remember that the Nazis in Illinois weren't the Nazis from the Third Reich. They were just assholes in Nazi costumes, behaving offensively. They didn't kill people.

And yeah, Obama's ad sounds offensive. Hillary's plan would be a godsend to poor people, and Obama's will hurt them. People who can't manage their bills live in fear: fear that they'll get sick or hurt and won't be able to pay for medical help. The poor live on the brink of catastrophe. Hillary's plan will help them. Obama's won't. And he knows it.

Using the image of poor struggling people to trick poor struggling people into voting against their best interests -- that's offensive.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. what's the old adage about the first people who mention nazi's in a debate
are automatically losers.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. Godwins Law. And often, those who call GL on you do so because they are losing.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
8. Ok
The ad was in bad taste based on the history of things. But really, was it that severe? Personal attacks or policy attacks? Hrmmm? Policy attacks, especially um how do i say true ones are an important part of the discourse. He doesn't attack universal health care but attacks the difference between them. Having mandatory coverage for kids when you will pay for coverage when people can't afford it is not such a bad thing.

Not being willing to pay for it, only to subsidise it is :shrug:

I dunno I was much more interested in Kucinich, then Edwards' healthcare plans... and the imagery here was in bad taste but it's not as though he called her an ally of the terrorists heh. He attacked a difference in policy. I do like his plan better than HRCs'.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks Tell...Bookmarking.
Edited on Sat Feb-02-08 01:32 AM by wlucinda
Will be back to read it in a bit. Thanks for the link!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. ...
you're welcome..:hi:
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. A nice pic of Hillary was used. The ad shows the DIFFERENCES
between their plans..... what is the issue?
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Harkpark Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. The issues is
they have not read both plan :rofl:
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. "The issues is"..... uh, yeah
"they have not read both plan"........ are you drunk? If so, it's cool - but you need to go to bed now.
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Harkpark Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Ok
me need go bed whimper whimper

:) but still insists that people read both plans before argueing :P
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. When you awaken my magic wand will help your spelling!
It's all good!
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Harkpark Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Hey
cool then l can let PA go.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Just go to sleep......
uh, really.... just go to sleep.
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Harkpark Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. OK
Zzzzzzz but me like sleep walking and typing and reading DU while sleeping

Zzzzzzzzz :)
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Hint....... turn off your computer.
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Harkpark Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Hmmm
Keep alittlelark away from my computer power supply
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
16. And this is hysterical..
"In the Obama mailer, a couple also is seen sitting at a kitchen table, with these words printed on the page: "Hillary's health care plan forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it."


Obama said last night;

BLITZER: Senator Obama, let me just fine-tune the question, because I know you want to respond.

On this issue of mandates, those who don't, whether it's 10 million or 15 million, those who could afford it but don't wind up buying health insurance for one reason or another, they wind up getting sick, they go to an emergency room, all of us wind up paying for their health care. That's the biggest criticism that's been leveled at your plan.

OBAMA: If people are gaming the system, there are ways we can address that. By, for example, making them pay some of the back premiums for not having gotten it in the first place.



Isn't that forcing someone to pay, even if they can't afford it?
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. No, "gaming the system" doesn't mean "they can't afford it"
It means they can afford it, but are a exploiting the system.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
31. Yes, it is.
And it's ludicrous to think you can address the obvious free rider problems with his plan after the fact, by tracking people down and making them pay.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. The ad fell just short of taken your first born hostage...
until you were able to pay!

The impact of the ad was much greater at the time. No one was out there explaining the program and it wasn't a campaign year. Most of all, we didn't have the internets for info and research.
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. One speaker on the call said it was as "outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Illinois."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a tool
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. I think it is a valid concern he brought up, though
notice he didn't show a poor Mexican family... that would be much more deceptive, as they are going to get subsidies... he showed a picture of the person most likely to have problems with the mandate... middle class families, who normally can afford it, but financially it is not a smart choice for them at that moment, or they have different priorities. Some people WANT to be able to choose what they do.
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Harkpark Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Hey
Obama plan not cover illegal immigrants.

If Mexican family American citizen then they covered.

Reason why not cover.... cannot afford to as need all resources to help citizen.
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LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. John Edwards won't be happy about this
Obama might have just lost this thing.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
26. How much does Hillary pay you to shill?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. we do it free, it comes from believing in a strong candidate
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
28. Obama can see that mandatory child care would have no objections but ...
... enforcing gun toting Republicans to take a plan sounds like a nightmare to me. He is only favouring choice over being authoritarian. They both have the same plan Barack feels his plan is woth having that Americans will sign up of their own free will.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
37. The Clinton Campaign Apologized...
Once Again...Why do they keep doing this?
At the end of the call, Howard Wolfson, Clinton's communication's director, hopped on to say that the 'Nazi' line was not the campaign's position.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Later in the afternoon, Nichols sent an email to reporters apologizing for the Skokie reference.

"Today my passion overwhelmed me," Nichols said in the note. "I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused."
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
38. What does the mailer actually say?
The way Hillary Clinton's health care plan covers everyone is to have the government force uninsured people to buy insurance, even if they can't afford it.
"....forcing those who cannot afford health insurance to buy it through mandates..punishing those who don't fall in line with fines."
-The Daily Iowan December 21, 2007


Punishing families who can't afford health care to begin with just doesn't make sense.

Barack Obama believes that it's not that people don't want health care, it's that they can't afford it. That's why the Obama plan covers every American by reducing costs more than Hillary Clinton's, saving the typical family up to $2,500 per year.
Bill Clinton's own Secretary of Labor, Robert Reich, wrote, "I've compared the two plans in detail...But my view Obama's would insure more people, not fewer, than HRC's."-Robert Reich, December 3, 2007

The Obama Health Care Plan:

-offers health care coverage for all Americans similar to that of members of Congress, and subsidies to help those who cannot afford it.
-Reduces insurance costs more than Hillary's plan, including capping insurance company profits in places where they take advantage of people.
-Saves the typical family up to $2,500 per year.
Read the entire plan at BarackObama.com
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