This feels like 2004 all over again. Hillary = Kerry.

[calmblueocean]

We're going to nominate the "safe" candidate that has low likeability numbers because we think their experience will make them more "electable". And it won't.

[MADem]

1. Obama could just as easily = Kerry. I see more Republicans shilling for his

nomination by the day. It's creepy. Why are they so EAGER for him to have the nom?

[calmblueocean]

15. What? What Republicans shilled for Kerry? If anything your point proves Obama ain't Kerry.

Unlike some folks here, I realize that there really are a lot of disaffected, frustrated Repubicans out there, too, who want a change in tone and direction in this country. If they want to support our candidate, I'm glad to have their votes. We all should be.

[MADem]

28. Did you see Frank Luntz on Maher last night?

He was pushing him like the bargain fish before closing time on Friday.

You seem to forget the DEAN SCREAM, my dear. They pushed that INCESSANTLY, and it helped to stick the knife in Dean for good. Before that, they picked apart his worn shoes and frayed shirts, his frugal habits, and brutally made fun of his wife and suggested she was too "quirky" to be First Lady.

That left Kerry, which suited the GOP just fine.

They wanted him to be the candidate for the same reason they want Obama to be the candidate--they think he is the WEAKER choice, and will LOSE. They have no intention of actually VOTING for him. Disabuse yourself of that notion. It's a game, a joke--and the joke is on you.

The Republicans I interface with LIKE the idea of a McCain presidency, and they don't understand why I and other Democrats are APPALLED by the prospect. They think McCain=Change/Maverick/Populist. They don't SEE him as a warmongering crazy man. So this whole theme of "disaffected" Republicans is overplayed, I suspect--I can't find a disaffected Republican who doesn't see McCain as the solution to their agita.

They see McCain as their very own "change agent," a straight talker, a manly man, a and they BELIEVE, rightly or wrongly, that McCain will pull Democrats and independents in, and he will be able to easily beat Obama.

Now, New England Republicans are the 'liberal' ones--the ones most likely to cross over. If they're pleased about McCain, they're not going to go to Obama. They'd go to Obama if HUCKABEE got the nod, perhaps, but they're CONTENT with McCain. He doesn't upset them, he PLEASES them.

[neutron]

36. We dropped cable before Maher finished his

opening monologue.

No more Tweety, no more Righteous Olbermann, no more
Cafferty, no more watching the media Swiftboating of a decent,
hardworking candidate.

[MADem]

39. Well, YOUTUBE has it up. It's even here on DU somewhere.

Watch it. The GOP is frantically pushing Obama as the "post partisan" candidate. Luntz uses the phrase, and Fucker Carlson used the VERY SAME PHRASE on Tim Russert's idiotic round table show on CNBC (not MTP, the other one) just today.

They are all singing from the same sheet music, and only the blindly partisan can't see it for what it really is.

The GOP are building Obama up, because they believe he is easier to knock down. They may be wrong in their estimate of his fortitude, but that is what they are doing, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

[mrcheerful]

37. The pukes are hoping for 2 things, one america's racist attitude and 2nd

Clinton scandals will pop up big time. It's funny how in this puke city of puking pukes, when discussing the worse of 2 evils 9 out of 10 pukes would rather see a "black" in the white house then the wife of cheating Bill. They fear her socialized health care and then their tax's will go up to pay for Social Security. Now in the pukes minds SS is the new welfare, never mind the fact that the ones who said it were retiree's on SS. Stupid pukes are just a waste of human skin.

[Frances]

2. Any Dem can be swift boated

and will be. It's which candidate can withstand the swiftboating that's important.

That's why I don't want either Hillary or Obama to give the Repubs ammunition.

[bluestateguy]

3. Hillary is the candidate of "groups"

I'm getting tired of the Democrats being seen as the party of "groups", each of which has their own little pet agenda, each of which must be pandered to.

We need a candidate who is the candidate of America, and not the candidate of grabby little "groups".

[rodeodance]

14. yeah yeah==tell me again of Obama targeting the youth group, the Repug lite group

the Jewish vote in Florida and blacks. yup

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. what groups? women? gays? what does grabby little groups even mean?

[MADem]

31. Yeah, those grabby women and gays should just shut up and get

back in front of the sink or behind those coats in the closet!!! How DARE they try to organize and make their views known!!!

[thunder rising]

4. You've made that connection too. But the game ain't over yet.

[rodeodance]

34. ALL FIRED-UP FOR THE LADY~~ YES SHE CAN YES WE CAN~~

[onehandle]

5. Kerry won. This time even cheating won't get them a win.

No matter who we nominate.

[never_get_over_it]

23. and you know this how?

because I think cheating WILL give them a win and I would like you to assure me it won't so I can stop having FRIGGIN nightmares about it

I truly see no matter if it Clinton or Obama this thing being stolen - and I think it would have been harder with Edwards which is why the M$M did EVERYTHING to marginalize him because corporate America was scared crapless of Edwards

[Colobo]

51. Kerry won? Really?

[goldcanyonaz]

6. No, many rather nominate someone who votes Present instead of taking a position.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

17. Ha-got your attention!!

[BlueManDude]

7. 10 months of explaining away her IWR vote - sounds like fun. Same old shit.

[rodeodance]

9. Get into the right mindset: Hillary is a strong intelligent women who knows how

to get things done and kick a**!!

You will feel much better.

[MonkeyFunk]

10. feels more like '96 to me

and McCain is Dole.

[BlueManDude]

18. Popular president riding peace and prosperity? Sorry this ain't 96.

and calling John McCain old isn't going to work.

[MonkeyFunk]

32. He is old

he's also a respected, independent-minded wounded war vet. I see no difference between Dole and McCain.

The Clintons know how to beat someone like that.

[mondo joe]

11. To my thinking, 0bama is more the perceived "safe vote". And, I think, like Kerry he's

not a tough enough fighter to take on the GOP.

[Cameron27]

29. I agree

but he's only safe in the primaries, the RWers will 'vet' him if he makes it to the GE.

[Carolina]

12. Exactly

Snatching defeat from victory... AGAIN!

[blm]

13. BULLSPIT - Kerry EARNED his nomination and he WON that race. The RNC stole that

election for Bush and the DNC sat on their hands for four years after 2000s theft and LET the RNC continue their tactics UNCOUNTERED by the DNC.

[never_get_over_it]

26. Oh SURE

like the M$M didn't destroy Howard Dean with the scream -

[blm]

35. Kerry won Iowa DECISIVELY before the scream happened. Media USED the

scream to hype to cover for their own misleading reporting that had been over-reporting Dean's numbers on the ground in Iowa while UNDER-reporting Kerry's strength on the ground there.

Really - try using a TIMELINE when you do your analysis.

And what does Dean have to do with the fact that Kerry won 2004 and the RNC had to steal it for Bush?

Dean would have had that race stolen, too..... because the DNC was so negligent after 2000's theft.

[never_get_over_it]

40. First of all

I was only commenting on the Kerry nomination portion of your post - I completely agree with you that "they" stole the general from Kerry and would have stolen it from Dean BUT maybe Dean would have actually fought back

and for the record I WAS NOT A DEAN SUPPORTER in 2004 so don't think that - I'm just saying a decisive win in IA does not a nomination make - if you think the constant playing over and over and over again of the Dean scream did not HURT/DESTROY Dean and help Kerry you're living in a fantasy world....

[blm]

49. I know the scream was hyped to hurt, just as many things were against Kerry.

The point being was that the media NEEDED to use that scream to distract from the months of their lying 'analysis' of the race. Kerry always had astrong ground game in Iowa with the Firefighters and the vets and most colleg students. But that is not what the corpmedia would ever mention while they were too busy declaring Kerry's campaign dead in the water and gave the impression that Dean had a majority of support.

And Kerry was ALWAYS expected to win NH by knowledgeable analysts, and much of the Dean support there touted in headlines was based again on the corpmedia focusing mainly on the Dean support for most of 2003.

[MH1]

16. Ahem.

Many of us like Kerry quite a bit, I have no knowledge of the numbers you speak of. I do know Kerry is working hard for Obama now.

I and many of my friends chose Kerry because we thought he was the best candidate, NOT the "safe" candidate.

Please do not dis us by comparing Hillary to Kerry. She doesn't have one tenth of the integrity Kerry has.

[rodeodance]

19. How very Rovian/cheney like--Instilling FEAR!

[calmblueocean]

24. I'm not trying to spread fear. Just disappointed that we don't seem to learn from our mistakes.

I feel like we've got a chance to do things differently this year, and we're going to blow it.

[rodeodance]

33. okm but it come across to me like that.

[blm]

20. I wish you'd EDIT your stupid subject line - Hillary isn't good enough to have her

piece of crap character listed as equal to Kerry in ANY WAY.

There isn't a lawmaker in DC who uncovered more government corruption than John Kerry has.

There isn't a Dem lawmaker in DC who has protected the corruption of the Bushes more than the Clintons have.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[calmblueocean]

22. What would you suggest? I've got a lot of respect for Kerry.

I just think he was a bad choice for 2004.

[blm]

30. BULLSHIT - Kerry WON. DNC let the RNC steal that election . McAuliffe

didn't exactly secure the election process for the four years after 2000s theft, did he?

Some say he was incompetent. Some say he was calculating to keep 2008 free for Hillary.

ANY Dem would have had that election stolen because of DNC's neglect of the election process at every level where the votes are allowed, cast and counted.

Blame Kerry for WINNING?

Blame DNC for letting the RNC steal it.

[politicasista]

43. Hearing crickets chirping n/t

[anamandujano]

48. Blame Kerry for rolling over.

Please, he had it in his hands. Why would he, or anyone in that position, listen to dumb@ss McAuliffe, even if your scenario is true, which I doubt. Everyone was looking to Kerry for direction. He had the voters behind him. He had the funds. We got whiplash when he conceded so quickly.

[Neshanic]

25. No Obama = Carter.

[ruggerson]

27. Here's the difference and it's a big one

Kerry was virtually unknown to the general American public. Hence, he could be defined by the Republicans. And he was. Swiftboating, flip flopping, etc were all successful tactics used by the Republics to define him in the public eye before he could define himself.

Obama is also an unknown. They will be able to take part of his record (Crime stands, decriminilization of pot, Rezko, etc) and blow them up into huge media stories to plant doubts in the minds of voters, just like they did with Kerry.

Hillary is a known quantity. Anything the Republics throw at her has been already well vetted by the American public. Any new demonization tactics they try will be greeted with a big yawn by the average voter, because they've already heard them all a thousand times. Thus, Hillary is in a unique position to make her case to the American people without all the attendant swiftboating dominating the news cycles.

[polpilot]

50. DEMOCRATS won't vote for her...

that's a problem

[patrice]

38. Hillary - Dean. nt

[newmajority]

41. Don't insult the good Doctor like that

He wasn't my choice in 2004, but he's been fantastic as the DNC chair, and I hope President Obama asks him to carry on in that position.

[patrice]

42. I think all of us should have respect for one another.

I'm taking stand against a lack of respect for others in those whom I encounter anywhere anytime.

[VotesForWomen]

44. OMG. obama = Kerry. kerry endorsed him fer christ's sake. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. hillary is nothing like john.

[politicasista]

46. As an Obama supporter, I don't think thread like this one help his cause

by constantly rehashing the past. And Kerry has endorsed Obama, and has been a good surrogate. It is 2008, not 2004. This thread has already brought out the Kerry and Obama bashers, and it doesn't help the lurkers who may be still undecided.

[anamandujano]

47. Kerry doesn't seem to think so.

Besides, Hillary is a great fighter. She can handle the pukes, Kerry couldn't. Yeah, he won but look what happened.

[jlake]

52. I think Obama = Kerry. The establishment is behind him and everyone seems to

think *Obama* has "electablity" .... but come the GE he will tank.