Bill Maher: black people have been waiting a long time for this (Obama) nomination....

[suston96]

Uh, Bill Maher? Guess who got the constitutional right to vote first - African Americans or women? Which came first? The Fifteenth Amendment or the Nineteenth Amendment? Tough math problem, I know.

Let's try it again: who has been "waiting a long time"?

[EffieBlack]

1. What's your point?

And YOU might want to try again before you start lecturing others.

First - there is NO constitutional "right to vote." The Constitution does not grant the right to vote to anyone, the 15th Amendment doesn't grant the right to vote to blacks, the 19th Amendment doesn't grant the right to vote to women.

Second - although the 15th Amendment was passed in 1865 guaranteeing the right to vote could not be denied to anyone based on race, it was virtually useless until the 1960s. African Americans STILL could not vote in many states. They were beaten, intimated, lynched, burned out of their houses, run out of town, subjected to poll taxes, eligibility "tests," etc. It wasn't until the 1965 Voting Rights Act that these actions were finally abated.

On the other hand, once women's right to vote was protected through the 19th Amendment, it was a done deal. Women weren't dragged into the streets, beaten, lynched, or otherwise prevented from voting through color of state law.

So before you try to make your obscure but still evident point by snarking at someone's understanding of the Constitution, you really should bone up on it yourself.

[Skittles]

33. you know your stuff, Effie

I'd like to point out that the presidential election of 2000 made it quite clear that while African-American voting rights have "come a long way" they certainly have not, er, completely arrived, so to speak. The systematic denial of black votes was blatant and certainly helped put GWB in the White House.

As to the original post - it's not just black folk who have waited - a lot of us are sick of the White Men Only American President Club.

[EffieBlack]

36. Thanks

And I can bet you that if a black man is elected president in the next 4 presidential elections, white men would not only think something is TERRIBLY wrong with the system (after all, a system that would elect so many people who are not representative of the voting population MUST have something wrong with it) they'd be demanding diversity in the presidential sweepstakes BIG TIME.

[Skittles]

42. you know it

isn't it odd - I am 50 and have never really heard it seriously questioned during the campaigns why the candidates were overwhelmingly white men - but OMG as soon as a woman and black man became SERIOUS contenders it seems like race/gender is all the pundits talk about. :o

[EffieBlack]

45. Exactly - the contrast is so striking

All they want to focus on in the Democratic primary is the race of the candidates - yet they never once have raised a question about why the Republican field is all white.

It proves once again that they think that "white" is the norm and that anything that deviates from it is not only abnormal, but somehow threatening to the norm.

[neutron]

55. I dropped Cable in the Middle of his Opening Monologue

Last Night.
Chic Media People are all Cattle. Just like Hitchcock says.

[VolcanoJen]

63. Thank you, Effie.

People get a little confused about history around here, don't they?

:hug:

[Unsane]

2. African Americans are STILL being systematically denied the right to vote, smartass.

Jim Crow has prevented AA's from have a real voting right until the late 1960's.

[neutron]

56. That's different from voting for a mediocre

candidate because he's your skin color.
Everybody in America should be able to vote. Voting for less than the best candidate
for political correctness is another matter.

[tokenlib]

3. A lot of us have been waiting a long time for someone like Barack....

And I don't think his skin color is what we waited for...

[demo dutch]

5. I'm sick of men running this country!

[jenmito]

7. Then why do you want Bill Clinton back in the WH?

[demo dutch]

13. I'm voting for Hillary she can hold her own against Bill besides there's

little difference between Obama and Clinton on issues, and sorry I'm going for the woman, this time, because she has more experience. The GOP will kill Obama on that fact alone.

[jenmito]

29. Condolleeza Rice is a woman. There goes your whole case.q

[suston96]

Don't worry, if she wins the election she is going to have Big Dawgl put to sleep...nt.

[jenmito]

31. But the poster is tired of men running the country.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. and I'm sick of sexists like yourself, hiding behind your womanhood

[demo dutch]

19. Fine call it sexist, but if there's little difference on issues, I choose to go with the woman who

has the experience. Race played a role in SC so it's essentially the same thing, it might be the deciding factor if you look at both candidates who are essentially the same on policy.

[SoFlaJet]

22. man Wolsh

you said it all with 11 words-just because someone doesn't like Clinton (I've stopped refering to her as "Hillary" like she's Elvis or something)to some that means we must hate women...how do you defend yourself from idiots like that? well you did it for all of us

[rodeodance]

25. oh good gawd--your ignormatic comments are showing once again

[NJObamaWoman]

14. It has nothing to do with being a man. Your statement is sexist.

You should want the best person to be president and hope that one day a woman or a person of color can be president.

[demo dutch]

23. I do but I also think it's time for a woman, and this one has the experience to do it!

[goldcanyonaz]

4. He also thinks Obama dances better.

He's a moran.

[Seen the light]

6. Right because blacks had a fair shot at the White House from 1870-1920

:eyes:

Eh, this is a pointless thread anyway.

[VotesForWomen]

60. no one said blacks haven't been waiting; it's the dismissal of the fact that women have been waiting

just as long that gets a little annoying. but hey, obama's a rock star, so of course he should go to the front of the line; women should graciously step aside and support him.

[SoFlaJet]

8. Who was the woman on last night?

man was she aggravating and was almost like Chris Matthews with her non-stop talking over everybody else in support for HER candidate-facts be damned

[BenDavid]

15. you gave yourself away knowing she had a candidate, and if

anything I saw last night was how 4 guys sitting around can be so damn sexist in their comments. That is what pissed me off the most.....and bill maher basically saying, we all should vote for obama because he is black.....damn bill! you must not realize that comment is racist and to vote for someone based upon ones skin color is racist and just damn stupid....

[SoFlaJet]

17. That's how you read that?

wow...I guess that you won't be watching Real Time along with Countdown or listening to Rachel Maddow because they are all sexist right?

[rodeodance]

whow. thanks for the info.

[jenmito]

9. You missed the point. They could've voted for Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, too...

but this is the first time there's such an inspirational, unifying candidate who HAPPENS to be Black.

[suston96]

11. I knew Bill Maher's statement was dumb, and now I see why....LMAO!

[NJObamaWoman]

12. Still gotta give it to black people. A CNN person said something

that has brought about a lot of hard feelings in my circle. This was about South Carolina and the black women vote. It seems that White women want Black women to stand up for all women hood. However when Black women want white women to stand up against racism for blacks women because we are all women....there seems to be a huge slight and unwillingness to do so. I felt this comment so be so true that it truly shocked me.


I understand that women have been slighted but white women are treated way better than blacks. I think America is more willing to support a White woman than they are a black person (man or woman). Yes darling Blacks have been waiting for this nomination (no matter if its Obama or not). I know I've been waiting for the day that Americans can accept a black person as president.

[EffieBlack]

16. You make an excellent point - a perfect example: Affirmative Action

White women have been the greatest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action, yet a significant number of white women - often in the majority - not only oppose Affirmative Action, they have actively tried to undercut and eliminate it, apparently because they see it as something that benefits minorites.

For example, in 2006, when Ward Connerly's ballot initiative banning affirmative action in the state passed, it passed with the overwhelming support of white women - 59% of whom voted for it. African Americans fought that initiative vigorously and BEGGED white women to help roll it back. Those entreaties fell on deaf ears.

[NJObamaWoman]

26. And yet as a black woman I keep being told I'm suppose to stand

up for womanhood over my race. Screw that I'm BLACK & a WOMAN. I will do no such thing.

[EffieBlack]

34. I hear you!

I found it both fascinating and maddening when the press consistently asked black women in South Carolina, "Are you voting your race or gender?" as if the only reason a black woman would vote for Barack was that he was black or for Hillary was that she was a woman.

Yet, I never once saw ANY white woman asked such a stupid, insulting question.

[NJObamaWoman]

38. Because there is still a stima placed on us. That we are all dumb and pro black everything.

When I see news shows interviewing Jesse and Al as if they represent us I want to throw up. Mean while white women are suppose to be the most perfect, above it all people...well when it comes to their white male counterparts.

[EffieBlack]

43. Ain't that a blip?

I think the same thing - they stick Rev. Al and Rev. Jesse on television constantly and then attack them for being "media hogs," and then criticize the rest of us for "allowing" them to "represent us." They would NEVER assume that the entire white population thinks that two white men - neither of whom have ever once been elected to anything - are their "leaders."

[UALRBSofL]

20. And I think you are both wrong

I want a gay man in office. But then again we are discriminated against by both white and black people.

[NJObamaWoman]

28. Thats true too. I just that blacks have struggled more in America

than gays and white women. Blacks basically built America and then we were turned loose and not given the same rights as whites. Our women were raped, men castrated etc. I think from my pov gays can go undercover but black people...We can't there is no way we can change our color. This is it we can't fake our color.

Being Black in America is still an evil thing.

[EffieBlack]

37. We may already have had some. :-)

[TriMetFan]

49. Amen to that.

[EffieBlack]

50. And black people are discriminated against by gay and straight people

And women are discriminated against by gay and black and white people . . .

and the beat goes on . . .

[VotesForWomen]

62. and women and gay people and jews are discrimnated against by blacks.

[rodeodance]

24. not true

at least based on the lastest poll I saw--think it was Pew--not sure.


I understand that women have been slighted but white women are treated way better than blacks. I think America is more willing to support a White woman than they are a black person (man or woman).

[NJObamaWoman]

27. Screw a poll. Do you see how Oprah is being attacked by

some women because she dared to endorse a black man over a white woman. A black man that she knows way better than the white woman. When that NOW person spoke out against Kennedy and that he should have endorsed Hilary because she is a woman. I was terribly offended by that message. Support the WHITE woman not the Darky.

[rodeodance]

46. I merely brought up the poll--do with it what you want.

[VotesForWomen]

61. white women have *always* been (racial) civil right advocates; how many black men work for women's r

how many black men work for women's rights? seems like if anything, they're working against them.

[izquierdista]

18. I don't get it

I don't see why Obama is an "African-American". Technically, he has more claim to that title than the people that commonly use it; his father was really an African, and his mother was an American. But the people who usually refer to themselves with that title are generations removed from Africa and really are just a distinct subculture of Americans. And while Obama can easily move within that subculture, he really isn't from that culture as much as Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton are. Due to his background, Obama can easily move out of that subculture too, like other people of mixed ancestry.

Even 45 years later, people are still obsessing about the color of the skin, not the content of his character (which is his best qualification).

[EffieBlack]

30. Maybe this will help

First of all - blacks did not start the racial labeling craze. This was a creation of whites who wanted to ensure that they could keep everyone straight. And, just like Adam was able to demonstrate his dominion over the Garden of Eden by naming everything in it, whites sought to demonstrate their dominion over all other people by naming them according to their race and ethnicity.

So blacks were initially just "Africans," "slaves," "it" "them," "savages," etc. As more of us came here we got new labels, "negroes," "darkies," "black," and, or course, the ever-so-popular "nigger."

After slavery, some of those names were considered less than polite (at least in certain company), so we became known mostly - in public - as "negroes" and "colored."

Now, black folk went along with these labels, because we really didn't have much say about it. We tried mightily to just be called "people" - just like the white folks liked to call themselves - but no matter how hard we tried to be just "people," the white majority continued to classify and label us with their terminology. From our birth certificates to our death certificates and everywhere in between, we were labeled by race by the government to which we paid taxes but for which we could not vote. So while we kept trying to be just "people," we had no choice but to call ourselves what white folks called us, in the meantime.

But as we went through the Renaissance (Harlem, not Italian) and the Civil Rights movement and began to cement and appreciate more and more of our culture, our history and the beauty of who we are, we realized that in order to have some control of our destiny and self-image, it was important that WE have some say in what we were called and what we called ourselves - an essential component of the self-determination of any group of people.

So, among other things, we questioned the term, "colored" - after all, isn't everybody "colored?" And why, we asked, was it considered the highest insult to call us black? What's so bad about black? Sure, our skin is not actually black, but white folks skin is not actually white, either. But why was it that white, the term associated with Caucasians, was generally defined as all good ("white heart" "white hat," etc.) while black was generally given ugly, negative meaning? So, we took OWNERSHIP of black, embraced it and made it our own. BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL we told the world. Because we ARE.

But we also realized that black, while defining a color, doesn't really define an ethnicity. There are Asian-Americans, Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans and, what were we? "American negroes." A commentator once noted that you can tell who owns what by the order in which the terms are used. The first term connotes the owner, the second word the owned. Irish-Americans are part owners of America. But does America own the negro?

No!

So we adopted a term for ourselves that both said something about ourselves and was consistent with the description used for other ethnic groups and nationalities. We began using "African American" interchangeably with "black." Sure, Africa's not a country, but since our ancestors didn't come through Ellis Island with papers showing in which country they were born, "Africa" was the best we could do.

So, yes - it would be wonderful if we could all just be the "people." But the fact that we aren't is not the fault of or decision of African Americans. We have always been and will likely for some time to continue being labeled by our race. We have simply decided to control what that label will be. Plain and simple.

[izquierdista]

47. Good answer!

:thumbsup: :toast:

[BlackVelvet04]

21. LOL....

Maher has demonstrated his misogyny repeatedly.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

32. Are you fucking kidding me?

I don't remember seeing a lot of white women being lynched, or sprayed with fire hoses, or chased with attack dogs. You really thing African Americans have been happily going to the polls and safely casting their votes since the Civil War?

Try to study a little history before embarrassing yourself again.

[EffieBlack]

39. Another point no one mentions . . .

Even when they couldn't vote white women had HUSBANDS who COULD vote and often, though certainly not always, voted their interests as well. In other words, white HOUSEHOLDS did have a vote, even when the women themselves didn't.

On the other hand, black women couldn't vote NOR COULD ANYONE IN THEIR FAMILY.

And even after blacks got "constitutional" protection to vote, black women and black men STILL couldn't vote. When the 19th Amendment was passed, white women immediately began voting and building their political base. Black women STILL couldn't vote. And, sadly, in large part, many white women didn't lift a finger to change that.

This is a very complicated dynamic and we have to be careful not to pit one group against the other, but it is critical to lay all of this out.

[jenmito]

35. How often do women get pulled over for "driving while female"?

Or get followed around a fancy store for being female?

[daleks not included]

53. They dont but.....

Women are called b*thces and aggresive by ALL men and women if they are smart and not passive.

Women are seen as less than as a woman if she doesn't have children or get married

Women are judge on their looks and not on their intelligence.



When you speak of the black race, the hispanic race, you usually speak of men.


Women are race traitors if we don't support non whie males

We are sexually abused and beaten. If we speak out. we are race traitors

We see our men call us all kind of nasty names. If we demand respect We are race traitors.

We are called race traitors if we want to help our girls succeed in life instead of having babies and "suppring the race".

We see men of color go and join the "boys club". We are taught not to complain because we are race traitors if we did.

Men of color complain that discrimination based on race is bad. However sexism is normal.



I have ever seen gay men become "one of the boys" even if he is dislkikd by other men.

[Kittycat]

40. They sky is yellow today.

[WillyT]

41. Man... Is Our Educational System Fucked Up, Or What !!!

:wtf:

:banghead:

[MichiganVote]

44. That man is so tiresome.

[jenmito]

48. Um, he said we owe Black people more than we owe WOMEN, and it's true. Women were

never slaves. And as Chris Rock said, "Back in the day a Black man would get lynched for looking at a white woman." No comparison whatsoever.

[VotesForWomen]

64. no comparison? women get raped and killed by men every day in america. but nevermind. nt

[jenmito]

65. MEN get raped and killed by men every day, too. Give me a break. Rape is a

punishable crime. Slavery was the law.

[ursi]

51. Bill's right!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

52. Which Americans were treated like animals until Jim Crow was abolished?

Which group needed to wait until the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts of the 1960s gave them de facto rights to sit at any lunch counter, stay in any motel, go to any school, and be allowed to cast their vote as they chose? Which Americans had to wait to have the National Guard and also federal troops sent into Southern cities to stop their children from being murdered while trying to go to white schools? And when they gained their right to be treated like human beings and not like animals was not that long ago. It is within the lifetime of many.

And what about the fact that dozens of black men were hanged on the public square in Southern towns often for no reason at all, or with bogus jury trials with white juries, up to the early 20th century and that those photos became trophies in family albums of white people? I've lived in the South and have been aghast when old timers showed me photos of black men hanging from a rope as though it were a beautiful photographic landscape or a monument. The hatred was that intense.

Which people actually had a white organization that wore sheets over their heads and burned crosses and hunted down black people in the night, often killing or injuring them? My uncle had a daughter of mixed blood and had crosses burned on his lawn in Denver, Colorado in the 1960s. Until that's happened to you, you don't know how bad that can be.

Why was there an uproar in the South in the 1960s when Sammy Davis Junior merely kissed a white actress on the cheek on a show on live television? That's all he did; he kissed a white lady on the cheek on the TV and people were up in arms.

I don't like discrimination of any kind, whether gender-based, racially-based, based on national origin, or sexual preference. It's all bad. But Bill Maher was absolutely right. Black people were not just badly treated. They were treated like non-humans. They were treated like animals. The only thing I would add is that I think Native Americans were treated even worse. In the case of Native Americans, there was genocide.

[EffieBlack]

58. Great post - but not dozens - thousands of lynchings of blacks occurred

[Alexander]

54. Who was subjected to Jim Crow for a century?

Quit this whiny "we're more oppressed than you are" routine. It makes you look foolish.

[suston96]

57. Oh, and Bill Maher said Obama is so smart - he knew what a "movie trailer" was.....

....Yeah, a "really intelligent young man," eh? We have heard that before.

[jenmito]

67. He didn't call Obama "smart" for knowing that. He said that showed he could relate to other regular

people. You know-like when GHW Bush didn't know how to scan the grocery item? It showed he was out of touch.

[VotesForWomen]

59. yes, the 'historicity' of obama's run is being much celebrated. women don't count, as usual. nt

[loveangelc]

66. riiiiiight. Hillary constantly talks about how she would be the first woman in the WH

and how that is so historic. Obama can't talk about his race because then he'll be "the black candidate." Its really not fair.

[jenmito]

68. EXACTLY! She says the fact that she's a woman means she represents change. So according to that

logic, Condoleezza Rice would represent change. Hillary represents more of the same-a bridge back to the 20th century as Obama says.