Hillary Supporters weigh in: Did you also bag on MLK when he "had a dream"?

[ErnestoG]

I'm very curious about this, seeing thread after thread hurl poop on Obama supporters or anyone who actually embraces the notion of a dream of a better nation and society. This is very bizarre on a so called "Democratic" forum. It doesn't compute. And then it made me recall MLK's great speeches, the most famous of which is actually referred to as "The I Had A Dream" speech.

So what say you, Hillars? Think carefully before you respond with predictable and nonsensical jabs like "Well Obama is no Dr. King" and other senseless, diversionary claptrap, and try speaking to the issue.

Did you bag on MLK when he also proclaimed to millions of his fellow citizens that he "had a dream"? Or is this simply a case of selective memory, fueled by a cult-based hatred of a candidate whose campaign is based on the power of a dream?

[jlake]

1. MLK told us what his dream was. He didn't say "Dream" "Hope" "Dream"

[ErnestoG]

2. So did Obama, if you bother listening to him.

[jlake]

3. No, Obama hasn't said anything different than the other Dem candidates did.

[ErnestoG]

4. BS, of course.

All you have to do is listen to the man, but it's clear your mind was made up when you saw "Hillary Clinton's opponent".

[jlake]

5. Stop blaming me. What is the change he will offer that *Hillary* won't.

And what makes you think he will be able to get it done?
He has a pretty spotty track record.

[MagsDem]

12. I listen to him, and he is not saying anything any other dem

is saying, except that he will pander to rethugs. Naive in the extreme, or just a panderer.

[ErnestoG]

21. Then you are not listening. But, Her Majesty's minions usually dont.

[MagsDem]

33. I listen, and I judge him lacking

Look at his healthcare plan as one example. He wants to pander to the right, so he leaves off universal coverage. He takes Democratic ideals and tones them down for consumption by the right, who aren't going to work with him anyway. Coward with a LACK of vision.

When you speak about vision and Obama you conveniently leave off that his "vision" is short of the dem agenda, and seems to be primarily centered on kow towing to the rethugs.

[ErnestoG]

69. Calling him a "coward" is another example of Hillary bot talk.

[MagsDem]

76. What do you call ducking controversial votes?

I call it being a coward.

[ErnestoG]

79. Like ducking prewar intel? Is that cowardly too, Ms. Clinton?

She refused to even read the NIE.

[SammyWinstonJack]

104. Do you listen to yourself?

:crazy:

[ErnestoG]

110. When I can overcome the din of the Obama haters, yes.

[neutron]

129. If MLK were running for President, he'd

better have more than a dream.

[Bluerthanblue]

13. ErnestoG- you

ask a very important question.

There were many "good" people who spat on MLK's vision-

Many of those got on board long after the fact.

It's as sad reality- but that hasn't stopped the dream- It has only proven that MLK's dream is bigger than any person- and won't die even when people are willing to kill to silence it.

I hear Obama- as you do.

And I believe there are many of us who do- and many others who will join along-

peace~

[ErnestoG]

22. Thank you!

[Evergreen Emerald]

128. Obama is no MLK

MLK had a dream and fought like hell to make it happen. Obama has a dream: to be President. He has no fight. It is all fluff and smoke and mirrors.

[wyldwolf]

27. Really? Got a link?

[ErnestoG]

30. Sure...

http://www.barackobama.com/

[wyldwolf]

51. there's nothing there defining his "dream" beyond what most other Dems "dream."

[ErnestoG]

65. Which means you didn't read the link. Again, not surprised.

[wyldwolf]

71. well, since you know that link so well, provide some specifics

[ErnestoG]

81. That onus is upon you, my friend. That's why I gave you the link.

And you still havent answered the thread question.

[wyldwolf]

85. Which means you don't have specifics. Again, not surprised.

[ErnestoG]

87. I dont blame you. I wouldnt want to read his site either if I were a committed Clinton cultist.

[wyldwolf]

98. some classic Obamanation projection.

[ErnestoG]

101. Says the bot who refuses to actually read Obama's words.

Beep....beep.....danger, Will Robinson....DANGERRRRRR!!!

[wyldwolf]

106. says the bot who can't even quote any of Obama's words

Beep....beep.....danger, Will Robinson....DANGERRRRRR!!!

[ErnestoG]

111. says the bot who won't even read Obama's site.

back atcha, bob.

[wyldwolf]

115. but I have and you're pretending things are there that are not.

[ErnestoG]

118. No, you have not. You've refused.

[wyldwolf]

120. yes I have. You can't cite specifics because there are none.

[ErnestoG]

122. No you didnt and still refuse. But thats ok, none of your cohorts will either.

[wyldwolf]

124. countless times. None of your cohorts can quote specifics.

[papau]

46. Well said - OP seems to want to pretend we who marched w/ MLK want to pretend LBJ

was not important to getting the laws passed.

The Obama smear that the Hillary MLK comment was a race card is actually the same way Obama won his 04 Senate primary via the Daley Chicago machine and Obama playing the race card to get a solid black vote for himself.

[ErnestoG]

61. Would MLK have voted for Hillary Clinton?

I'll bet if you ever read his speeches on aggressive war and militaristic beligerence, you'd get an eye opener.

[wyldwolf]

92. yep, but he would not have supported Che Guevara

[ErnestoG]

93. He doesnt have to. That's called freedom of choice.

Heard of it?

[wyldwolf]

100. interesting your use of the present tense.

[ErnestoG]

102. That's because MLK's dream is still alive. Didnt you know that?

regardless of how your establishment candidate is trying to kill it.

[wyldwolf]

107. so you think the ghost of MLK would rise today and vote for the ghost of Che?

[ErnestoG]

112. Ideologically they had much in common. But that's another thread, let's stay focused.

And I notice you still havent answered the question I posed in the OP.

[wyldwolf]

117. sure. One was peaceful, one was a brutal murderer.

[ErnestoG]

119. your nonsense aside, are you going to stay focused on the thread?

[wyldwolf]

123. what's nonsence about it? Che was a thug. Everything MLK was not

[papau]

126. Listen to the tapes of conversations between LBJ and MLK - "an eye opener"

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. Not me. I always accept that an ability to uplift and inspire

is an important element of leadership. A vision is important. And so is a road map to get between here and there and a vehicle capable of making the journey.

[ErnestoG]

7. Agree with you on that one. And that's where we play a part.

Too often people think their civic duty stops at the voting booth. It doesnt. We have to stay involved, riding the arses of those we elect to make sure they do they right thing. ALWAYS.

[MagsDem]

8. He needs more experience, and to get some courage

It's all well and good to have dreams, although his seem to be primarily about him. But he doesn't have experience, or political capital. He is naive in the extreme with his pandering to right and claiming he will work with republicans. How's the working out on the FISA bill today? Lastly, he needs to get a bit of courage. I have never seen such a calculating voter -- ducks difficult votes constantly. He is the last Dem I want leading the party right now.

[ErnestoG]

11. Like maybe enable a Repuke president to start a war or two?

Oh thats right, Hillary did that. Never mind.

[MagsDem]

19. Get over it, will you?

Dems weren't in the majority. The AUMF would have passed with or without them. Wouldn't have changed a god damn thing. At least she didn't vote "present" like a goddamned coward.

[ErnestoG]

28. Get over a criminal war? I think not. And I'll bet thousands of families out there agree.

[MagsDem]

36. Get over blaming Dems for it

It's ridiculous at this point. You pretend it wouldn't have happened if no dems had voted for it, and that's just bullshit.

[ErnestoG]

63. I blame Dem enablers for their part. And Hillary is among them.

[MagsDem]

74. You're a Hillary hater

So you can't face the fact that it would have happened if not a single dem voted in favor of it. And that is also why you don't mind that Obama has voted Bush's way on the war in every single instance since he took office. Grow up.

[ErnestoG]

78. Nope. Just a "Hillary Is Not The Person For The Job" - er.

[msongs]

9. people who don't vote for obama are in a hatred cult. that's your opinion only nt

[ErnestoG]

103. Yes, based on hundreds of threads of evidence here.

[Tom Strong]

10. Quit dishonoring your candidate, E. You're doing more harm than a Hillbot EVER could. n/t

[ErnestoG]

15. Is this the 12 year old "PWNED" guy again?

Get back to your homework or NO PS2 tonight!

[Tom Strong]

20. You're flailing, man. Trust me: BO doesn't WANT this kind of support. n/t

[ErnestoG]

24. You know what Obama wants and needs now? I'll call him immediately!

[agdlp]

14. Having a ultra left mass murderer on your icon tells it all..Fuck off !

[ErnestoG]

16. Shows how little you know of him...and of your candidate. That figures.

[LandOLincoln]

17. You mean the way Obama bagged on MLK (and JFK, RFK

JJ et al) when he sniffed that he "wasn't invested in the struggles of the 60s and 70s?"

Like that, you mean?

[ErnestoG]

18. Cite please...with FULL quote and context.

[MagsDem]

26. Exactly - What I get from Obama is.....

Arrogance coupled with cowardice. I have never seen anyone that plays to the right to much, and thinks of his own political ambitions so much when it comes to how he will vote.

[ErnestoG]

32. Then somebody cheated you on your lasik surgery.

[Pathwalker]

23. No. He is my hero.

Do you think you help your candidate's cause?

[ErnestoG]

25. Apparently, because no Hillar has yet given me a nonsnarky, intelligent answer.

So the point is being made.

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. Huh??? n/t

[ErnestoG]

31. That's what I say, when I see them non stop bash O for his "dream" talk

[Pathwalker]

43. Show me where I have ever bashed Barack Obama - EVER!

You can't.

[MagsDem]

48. His dream is pandering to the right, dude

And I ain't buying it. Partisanship is GOOD when the other party is the rethugs. Get it?

[ErnestoG]

55. Oh, like Hillary did with her war vote and her proximity to PNAC.

[Tom Rinaldo]

53. I think my reply was positive and thoughful

I now suspect you are discounting some replies that don't go far enough in whatever direction you want to see people go replying to your question.

[MagsDem]

35. I gave you a very serious answer... you just didn't like it

[KennedyGuy]

39. typical from this poster...

some people are programmed only to talk..and not to listen..
This guys a classic.

[ErnestoG]

42. spoken like a cultist. Thanks for not failing me!

No substance, just flack. Excellent!

[Pathwalker]

40. All you do is insult and MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS, ERNESTOG!!

Your childish, HATEFUL name-calling is immature, childish, boorish, and beneath contempt. I answered you honestly - Dr. King is my HERO - and you call THAT an unintelligent, snarky response?
I have long given up the idea that ANY Obama supporter will ever ask an over the top beyond disgusting poster like you to stop, because you do your candidate NO FAVORS either, but you can't even acknowledge or recognize simple honesty when you see it.

The ONLY point you are making is that you are a blind, hateful, person. Period.
And you are not doing Barack Obama any favors, whatsoever. At least his mind is nowhere close to being as small as yours.

[ErnestoG]

44. ...and cooks lousy waffles too?

Hey you can't please everyone. But thanks for the Hillar answer I expected. So far, this thread is proving my suspicions exactly right.

[KennedyGuy]

Lets get a mob and start an attack thread..

where are all those self righteous folks from yesterday..where did they all go?
To quote Bill.."give me a break"

[ErnestoG]

49. Like you havent already? 100 times over?

pfffft.

[KennedyGuy]

54. come on Ernie..where are all your pals?

bring on the mean girls...
such faux outrage...
sad..and typical.

[ErnestoG]

56. You having another bad day, cupcake?

[KennedyGuy]

I'm having a great day ernie...

just fantastic..always did like a good comedy...

[ErnestoG]

68. Yes, I can *cough* tell.

[styersc]

34. You're right. Before the child-man Obama, no other progerssive..

had ever had a dream or worked for change, except for MLK. Despite my decades of political activism and struggle, I am so very glad that you are here to show us the way.

Thank you in advance.

[ErnestoG]

50. Thank you for dodging the question. As expected.

[styersc]

59. Hey, I'm agreeing with you.

All of the fighting, protest and activivism that I and others have been involved in for decades was for nothing. Obama is here to lead us and we never made any contribution whatsoever. Thank heavens you are finally here to lead us. All that Civil Rights, Vietnam, Women's Rights, anti-nuclear proliferation, ending apartheid in South Africa, stopping the appointment of Judge Bork to the Supreme Court, etc. etc. We were all just flailing around until you showed up to give us direction.

Thank you Barak and all of your supporters.

[ErnestoG]

66. oh Shit, my apologies then. Sorry, I'm deflecting arrows in all directions HAHAHAHA

it gets a little crazy.

[VolcanoJen]

57. That child-man sits at Paul Wellstone's desk in the US Senate.

I suppose Paul Wellstone is now a "child-man" to Clinton supporters, too.

I guess if you live long enough, you'll see everything. Even DU united against the Kennedy Family and MLK's Dream!

[styersc]

67. But you haven't kept up with the news according to the Obamites.

All of the activism that the likes of Wellstone and supporters like myself have been engaged in for decades is all nothing. We are the enemy for Obama alone is the true and only agent of change. We have been waiting for this young messiah from the streets (by way of Columbia and Harvard)to lead us because we don't know what change and sacrifice is.

[VolcanoJen]

80. Well, I support Obama.

And I'm an activist. And I stand on the side of Wellstone. And Ted Kennedy.

I doubt you and I are as different as you may think.

[ErnestoG]

83. Glad to hear it. So let me ask....

What do you make of the fact that almost no one who has responded to this thread so far, has actually answered the question I posed in the OP?

[VolcanoJen]

88. Because it's an impossible question to answer.

To answer the question would be to betray one of the Clinton campaign's central memes.

It's unanswerable. Everyone knows they believed in MLK's dream, right along with him. Everyone knows they wouldn't dare call it just a "dream." Everyone knows they wouldn't dare condescend those who followed MLK, either.

Do expect a lot of "Obama is no MLK!" responses, though. Seems to be the standard answer.

[ErnestoG]

90. BINGO.

And the thread is so far bearing us out.

[ErnestoG]

96. That's very imaginative. Got any proof for that, or is it just more Hate-Obama fiction?

[ErnestoG]

77. See, more condescension. That's going to win your candidate a ton of support

[VolcanoJen]

84. Dude, I think I'm on your side.

Why are you baggin' on me??? :-)

[ErnestoG]

89. Did I misread your "manchild" comment? If so, my bad. Sometimes sarcasm doesnt translate well here

:(

[VolcanoJen]

91. Yeh. I was writing that in response....

... to a poster above who said, "before the man-child Obama came" or something to that effect. It offends me that anyone could refer to a 46 year-old United Staes Senator as a "child-man."

Sorry. It's getting confusing around here. :-)

[ErnestoG]

94. Ah Ok then. Thanks for setting me straight.

[maddiejoan]

99. According to Obama

Paul Wellstone was just a gadfly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3880206&mesg_id=3880206

[ErnestoG]

105. Hmm...cherrypicked single words, lacking context. Well done!

sheeesh

[maddiejoan]

108. Why not?

That's Obama's entire campaign method.

[ErnestoG]

113. Facile equivocation? Come on, you can do better than that.

[jillan]

37. Obama is no MLK.

[ErnestoG]

60. Diversionary irrelevence example #1. Thanks.

[Straight Shooter]

38. Barack doesn't know who he's running against ...

... and his supporters don't know if he's JFK or Martin Luther King. Seems to be a serious identity crisis going on with your candidate.

Martin Luther King, by the way, paid his dues over many years and much persecution. How you can even compare them in the same breath just because they use similar words like "hope" and "dream," simply staggers the imagination.

Why don't you rag on Barack for cribbing from Martin Luther King?

[ErnestoG]

52. Oh certainly he knows. He just has a better grip on the future than your establishment candidate.

[Straight Shooter]

64. Your so-called anti-establishment candidate has some hefty establishment endorsements.

Stop embarrassing yourself with your selective non sequiturs.

[ErnestoG]

73. As anyone who wants a serious shot at the WH must have. Did you expect him to

get there standing on the corner with a tin cup full of pencils?

[Straight Shooter]

82. Now you're engaging in rationalization.

Good for the goose but not good for the gander, eh, Ernie?

[ErnestoG]

86. Glad to see you agree that they all need funds to compete.

Now, why won't you answer the question in the OP?

[Straight Shooter]

116. I did answer it.

Just not the way you wanted me to. I see you have that problem with a lot of responders on your attention thread.

[ErnestoG]

121. That was a very "Hillarylike" answer. (non answer)

Sort of like what led her to vote for the war. I feel your pain, really.

[DesEtoiles]

41. MLK took money from Tony Rezko! AND Rony Tezko! AND Zony Terko!

[ErnestoG]

47. HAHAAHA! Damn him!!!

[LoZoccolo]

95. Zony Terko, lol. n/t

[ErnestoG]

97. Have you noticed them quite mute about him once it was discovered that...

Rezko also had ties to a Clinton campaign worker.

Oh me oh my.

[LandOLincoln]

131. Yeah, right. So because Villaraigosa got

a Rezko contribution in 2001? wasn't it?--that means Hillary Clinton is just as close to Rezko as Obama?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Oh baby, have you got a lot to learn....

[BootinUp]

45. Has Obama earned

the same reverence as a man who marched in the streets, was beaten, arrested and ultimately killed, in the battle for civil rights? No, but he has earned my respect.

I will question Obama's use of rhetoric when I think it unneccessarily yields ground to the opposition in a year that we are strong enough to win on our merits and our party platform.

I hope you also understand that I think your post is inviting divisiveness and is really unnecessary. I would happily vote for Obama if he becomes the nominee.

[ErnestoG]

58. My question was honest and up front. So far, its been answered predictably...

which means by vitriol, irrelevence, and personal attack. JUST what I thought would happen.

[BootinUp]

62. Its not an easy issue to discuss

without that happening I am afraid.

[ErnestoG]

70. You're right. That was the rhetorical bent to my thread, which is being proven out.

[TheDonkey]

72. it took a PRESIDENT to triangulate that dream

:(

[ErnestoG]

75. Aye.

Now I hope that Obama gets a chance to set it right.

[robbedvoter]

109. Obama: "I am not that invested in the fights of the 60's and the 70's"

Most of us still are. Nor do we call them excesses.
Thet have been fights - with lives lost. Activism. Courage. Not empty rhetoric.

[ErnestoG]

114. Actual quote, cite and context please.

[robbedvoter]

125. It is an actual quote. From the video interview. video & comment here:

This video insulted me as someone who grew up in the 60s and 70s and who never attended a "love in." How can he say he is not invested in the 60s and 70s when they shaped so much of what we are? And, "excesses?"
http://current.com/items/88818500_barack_obama_praises_reagan_disses_progressives

[BlackVelvet04]

127. MLK died for his dream....

Obama can't even vote to support his. He has more NV's than you can shake a stick at.

Obama is NO MLK.

[Neshanic]

130. I do not remember Hillary on stage with a homophobe. Was that a dream I had about Obama?

[FrenchieCat]

132. No, you just remember her sleeping with the man that signed DOMA.....

:eyes: