Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

It's Clear to Me that the Clinton Supporters Do NOT Want Change and are HOPELESS

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:37 PM
Original message
It's Clear to Me that the Clinton Supporters Do NOT Want Change and are HOPELESS
It's easy to see why. SHE HAS NO PLAN. Why? Because she wants everything to be the same.

For example:

Obama's plan to restore and secure Civil Liberties (NSA, Rendition, Gitmo, Habeus Corpus, etc): http://www.barackobama.com/issues/civilrights/

Hillary has none.

Obama's plan to combat poverty: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/poverty/

Hillary has none.

Obama's foreign policy plan: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/

Hillary has none. She only says she will end the war in Iraq, yet is still unapologetic about her part in it has already shown her position by voting for the Kyl-Lieberman resolution against Iran. Wars would continue under her. There would be no peace.

If you want to keep things the same, then go ahead, put another Bush or Clinton in the White House for another 4 years. But if you are ready for a change America, then it's time to give someone who has a REAL PLAN a chance to set America back in the right direction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Barack Obama speaks to voters at a rally in St. Louis, MO.
ON CSPAN tonight at 9:30 ET.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
godai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks for this info n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. We want to change back to the boom years of Clintonomics
The peace and prosperity the only 2 term Dem president since Roosevelt hammered out for the middleclass. The first time poor peoples incomes went up in decades. Proven success vs risky unknown gamble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Funny how when anyone mentions something bad about Bill Clinton, Hillary's supporters say she's her
own person with her own plan. In that case she's just as risky as Obama. Whenever anyone says she represents the status quo, they turn back to Bill Clinton's presidency. Funny thing that is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. That's One Hell Of A Great Point... Hillary Stands On Her Own, Because We Want To Go Back To Bill
:wtf:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. Thanks. They're an inconsistent cool-aide driven bunch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. there isn't going to be a dot com boom again like in th e90's n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. if this is what you are really hoping for by voting for Hillary- then
I hope you will think twice- and three times- and again and again.

There is no going back to the '90's- NONE.

And in some ways that is not a bad thing.

Bill Clinton was a good president-
But by voting for Hillary, you aren't voting him back in- or turning back the clock.

peace~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. the "Boom" years were the Dot-Com Bubble. When it burst, the Housing Bubble. What fucked up bubble
will Hillary leave us cleaning up after?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. You can't go back, ever
That's not how history works.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, I want a change alright,
just not something that has no substance to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think a lot of Hillary supporters clutch their cynicism so tightly because it makes them
Edited on Sat Feb-02-08 08:44 PM by cryingshame
feel superior without realizing they diminish themselves first and the cause of Justice second.

Perhaps it's a lack of imagination and being too used to the narrative where things just can't change.

Or if they can change, it comes on such an incremental level, we can't ever see it happen in our lifetime.

It isn't going to be Hillary OR Obama who throw out the warmongers and race-baiters. It'll be THE PEOPLE.

Obama gets it.

Hillary and her supporters don't. They prefer largely to just elect someone they think fits into the dysfunctional mold they're too afraid to break apart.

Because, it doesn't matter how many times you tell Hillary supporters about Obama's actual policy positions they are unable to hear such basic facts.

They hear his rhetoric and run away from the possibility of success.

So maybe that's it, Hillary supporters are afraid of succeeding in a big way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. candidates on the down ticket are worried about a potential Hillary nom
local candidates in my state (nc) are seriously worried about having Hillary
on the ticket will hurt them.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. You are so wrong about our wanting change
Of course we want change! Bush was a change, but a bad one. Not all changes are equal. I've been listing to Hillary Clinton and reading what she has to say. No where do I get the impression that she wants things to stay the same. SHE wants change as well as Obama does.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. We want change - we just want someone with a proven track record -
someone that has substance and not just pom-poms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. You prove my post above. O. has substance and policies. One can debate those policies but YOU
Edited on Sat Feb-02-08 08:50 PM by cryingshame
are too afraid to actually do that.

There are policy differences. Health care, for example. I have can see strength and weakness in BOTH candidates' plan. An honest person would just admit that both are valid and that both deserve to be debated.

But you and almost all Hillary supporters on DU are unable to have that debate.

You have a problem.

IMO, you're afraid to really imagine things being different. You might SAY you want social justice and progress.

But you can't actually visualize it let alone embrace the force that would lead to real transformation.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Thank you
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Exactly.....
at least with Hillary, we know what to expect. Obama, not so much...maybe it's just more....comfortable, and a secure feeling with Hillary...and besides....she actually WOULD be the CHANGE.

Obama isn't really a change at all. He's still a man. Ultimate change would be Hillary. But, I just happen to trust her more than I do Obama, so that's the main reason if she gets the nomination, I will vote for her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. But I thought Hillary was her own person. Now you are running her on Bill's reputation.
Which is it? See post #6 above to realize your own delusions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Where did I even mention Bill.....
I didn't. I happen to; TRUST HILLARY MORE. That's what I said. If I would have meant Bill, I would have said; I just happen to trust Bill more. If I would have meant them as a couple, I would have said; I just happen to trust Hillary and Bill more.

Sheesh, the lack of comprehension on this board is mind boggling...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. I think you've hit on a great point.
For those that did well in the 90s (and I was one of them), returning to that formula doesn't seem all that bad. In fact it seems like a good thing. I want to go back to federal surpluses, I want a strong dollar, I appreciated the HOPE tax credits, FMLA saved my job when my child had a major illness... these were all things that benefited me. So I understand why people would vote for Hillary. She has said numerous times that she will return to the Clinton tax rates and seems to align herself with the policies of Bill Clinton's presidency.

However, if you didn't do so well in the 90s (and many people didn't; many people who lost their needed TANF benefits, people who lost their jobs and fringe benefits due to NAFTA), you might not be thrilled with going back to the same old, same old. Also, if you believe that we can't go back to the policies of the 90s even if we wanted to because so much has changed. Bush has altered and destroyed so much of the federal government (FEMA, creation of the bureaucratic Homeland Security, so many executive orders and signing statements undermining legislation). One might believe that we need something radical and transformative -that we need to change the mindset of the American public that makes the era of Bush/Cheney so abhorrent that we will never vote such people or their policies into office again, then maybe Obama looks better.

Hillary doesn't really talk about transparency in government with the confidence and assurance that Obama does. She doesn't talk about reaching out to traditionally non-Democratic citizens in order to change their mindsets and get them to understand the devastation right-wing thinking has on this nation and the world. Obama, in my opinion, gets that if we don't transform the way people think about government and policy, we are doomed to repeat the Bush years, maybe after another 8 years of Democratic-fueled prosperity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reciprocity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Right his change is to suck up to the republicans and give them a seat in his administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. I Want CHANGE. I Want OBAMA to STOP Voting for $25 BILLION in Subsidies for BIG OIL !!!!
Or is he in bed with Big Oil?

Kennedy: NO

Kerry: NO

Edwards: NO

Clinton: NO

Obama: YES


I pay enough at the gas pump. Maybe Obama's family can afford it, but my family can't!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. So... have you read that bill?
Just curious.

Also:

Tom Harkin: YES

Dick Durbin: YES


Buncha Bush Limbaugh clones, those guys.

It was about ethanol. And you know that, but you'll go on your smear spree anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. Not a Clinton supporter yet. But what a load of crap!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
18. hopeless? no change? huh??
Please go look at Hillary Clinton's website. In fact, we should all be looking at every candidate's websites for ourselves, especially if we believe fervently in our own candidate. Don't accept what you've heard, or even what you've read. Go to the source, and make sure to check out factcheck.org and mediamatters.org which are nonpartisan and nonbiased.

It's silly to say Clinton has no plans on these issues. She's organized her information on her website differently than Obama has. All the information is, in fact, there, however. My goodness. All the candidates have plans. Otherwise, they wouldn't have made it this far through the grueling political process.

Insulting Clinton supporters does not sound supportive of Obama's ideas about unity or political change. I am an extremely optimistic psychologist and university lecturer. I want to elect someone who has demonstrated competence and leadership so that they will enact change I am interested in. It's easy to project our own ideas of "change" onto a blank screen. Obama has to be that screen in order to stay in the race. He can't appeal to people with contradictory ideas about what change consists of if he comes down hard one way or the other. But that doesn't mean his idea of change is the same as yours. Take a close look at what changes each candidate has actually pursued through their behavior, and what changes they have actually enacted in the physical world. If there's one thing Bush has taught us, it's that anybody can say anything--it's all about the actions, not the words.

Obama is exciting and inspiring. But I want a president who is competent to lead the COUNTRY more than I want someone who excites ME. That may not be everyone's choice, and if it's not yours, so be it. That's democracy!

Hillary 2008/ Obama 2016
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe the same as when Bill was President and we had a
gov't surplus or have you forgotten?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. See my post #6 above about that very point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
andyrowe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bam.
K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. Hillary: Security and Opportunity for the Twenty-first Century
Edited on Sat Feb-02-08 09:02 PM by Jim4Wes
If you want ot know more about her views on foreign plicy this is an excellent source. I have snipped the portion where she discusses reparing the damage the Bush admin has caused via Guantanamo, Abu Graib, and Human Rights.




http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20071101faessay86601-p60/hillary-rodham-clinton/security-and-opportunity-for-the-twenty-first-century.html


Summary: The next U.S. president will have a moment of opportunity to reintroduce America to the world and restore our leadership. To build a world that is safe, prosperous, and just, we must get out of Iraq, rediscover the value of statesmanship, and live up to the democratic values that are the deepest source of our strength.

Hillary Rodham Clinton, a U.S. Senator from New York, is a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination.




Topics:
U.S. Policy and politics
Foreign Policy
The Americas



continued...

BUILDING THE WORLD WE WANT

To build the world we want, we must begin by speaking honestly about the problems we face. We will have to talk about the consequences of our invasion of Iraq for the Iraqi people and others in the region. We will have to talk about Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib. We will also have to take concrete steps to enhance security and spread opportunity throughout the world.

Education is the foundation of economic opportunity and should lie at the heart of America's foreign assistance efforts. More than 100 million children in the developing world are not in school. Another 150 million drop out before they finish grade school. By failing these children, we sow the seeds of lost generations. As president, I will press for quick passage of the Education for All Act, which would provide $10 billion over a five-year period to train teachers and build schools in the developing world. This program would channel funds to those countries that provide the best plans for how to use them and rigorously measure performance to ensure that our dollars deliver results for children.

The fight against HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria, and other dreaded diseases is both a moral imperative and a practical necessity. These diseases have created a generation of orphans and set back economic and political progress by decades in many countries.

These problems often seem overwhelming, but we can solve them with the combined resources of governments, the private sector, nongovernmental organizations, and charities such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. We can set specific targets in areas such as expanding access to primary education, providing clean water, reducing child and maternal mortality, and reversing the spread of HIV/AIDS and other diseases. We can strengthen the International Labor Organization in order to enforce labor standards, just as we strengthened the World Trade Organization to enforce trade agreements. Such policies demonstrate that by doing good we can do well. This sort of investment and diplomacy will yield results for the United States, building goodwill even in places where our standing has suffered.

We must also take threats and turn them into opportunities. The seemingly overwhelming challenge of climate change is a prime example. Far from being a drag on global growth, climate control represents a powerful economic opportunity that can be a driver of growth, jobs, and competitive advantage in the twenty-first century. As president, I will make the fight against global warming a priority. We cannot solve the climate crisis alone, and the rest of the world cannot solve it without us. The United States must reengage in international climate change negotiations and provide the leadership needed to reach a binding global climate agreement. But we must first restore our own credibility on the issue. Rapidly emerging countries, such as China, will not curb their own carbon emissions until the United States has demonstrated a serious commitment to reducing its own through a market-based cap-and-trade approach.

We must also help developing nations build efficient and environmentally sustainable domestic energy infrastructures. Two-thirds of the growth in energy demand over the next 25 years will come from countries with little existing infrastructure. Many opportunities exist here as well: Mali is electrifying rural communities with solar power, Malawi is developing a biomass energy strategy, and all of Africa can provide carbon credits to the West.

Finally, we must create formal links between the International Energy Agency and China and India and create an "E-8" international forum modeled on the G-8. This group would be comprised of the world's major carbon-emitting nations and hold an annual summit devoted to international ecological and resource issues.

The world we want is also a world where human rights are respected. By surrendering our values in the name of our safety, the Bush administration has left Americans wondering whether its rhetoric about freedom around the world still applies back home. We have undercut international support for fighting terrorism by suggesting that the job cannot be done without humiliation, infringements on basic rights to privacy and free speech, and even torture. We must once again make human rights a centerpiece of U.S. foreign policy and a core element of our conception of democracy.

Human rights will never truly be realized as long as a majority of the world's population is still treated as second-class citizens. Twelve years ago, the UN convened a historic conference on women in Beijing, where I was proud to represent our country and to proclaim that women's rights are human rights. Since then, women have been elected heads of state in countries on nearly every continent. Thanks to the United States, many, but not yet all, Afghan women have been liberated from one of the most tyrannical and repressive regimes of our day and are now in schools, in the work force, and in parliament.

Yet progress in key areas has lagged, as evidenced by the continuing spread of trafficking in women, the ongoing use of rape as an instrument of war, the political marginalization of women, and persistent gender gaps in employment and economic opportunity. U.S. leadership, including a commitment to incorporate the promotion of women's rights in our bilateral relationships and international aid programs, is essential not just to improving the lives of women but to strengthening the families, communities, and societies in which they live.


REVIVING THE AMERICAN IDEA

Seasoned, clear-eyed leadership can take us far. We must draw on all the dimensions of American power and reject false choices driven by ideology rather than facts. An America that rebuilds its strength and recovers its principles will be an America that can spread the blessings of security and opportunity around the world.

In 1825, 50 years after the Battle of Bunker Hill, the great secretary of state Daniel Webster laid the cornerstone of the Bunker Hill Monument that stands today in Boston. He exulted in the simple fact that America had survived and flourished, and he celebrated "the benefit which the example of our country has produced, and is likely to produce, on human freedom and human happiness." He gloried not in American power but rather in the power of the American idea, the idea that "with wisdom and knowledge men may govern themselves." And he urged his audience, and all Americans, to maintain this example and "take care that nothing may weaken its authority with the world."

Two centuries later, our economic power and military might have grown beyond anything that our forefathers could have imagined. But that power and might can only be sustained and renewed if we can regain our authority with the world, the authority not simply of a large and wealthy nation but of the American idea. If we can live up to that idea, if we can exercise our power wisely and well, we can make America great again.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yeah
Hillary has no plan? You haven't happened to notice that EVERY analyst and pundit with a shred of reputability says that Clinton is more substantiative than Obama, while he is more stylish and harder to pin down?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Your trusting the MSM now? Wow. How about read their plans for yourself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Er
Ok, point me to one neutral source that claims Obamas plans are more substantial than Clintons?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Why don't you read them for yourself. I'd rather you make your own decision than trust the MSM
to give you your decision.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. There ya go: "pundit"
The op gave links to substance. Do your "pundits" ever get down to brass tacks?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. change? what change?
97% of Obama's votes in the Senate have been with the Democratic Party--that is, he has voted with the old guard, the old folks, the elites, the ones who don't want change...and 95% of the time his votes are the same as Hillary Clinton's! Obama has not introduced any groundbreaking legislation into the Senate. Although he's been in the Senate for 3 years, he sure hasn't shown much leadership. The same thing held true in Illinois, where he voted "present" and refused to commit himself in order to send indirect messages about how he'd support part of a bill, but not the whole thing. How does this voting record demonstrate "Change"? Or "Leadership"? Or "Unity"? I don't get it. It is extremely hard for most of us to understand this. Now he has old guard Democrats stumping for him. How is this change? His #1 contributors are Wall Street banks. How is this change? He smokes cigarettes and is all for preventative healthcare. How is this wisdom?

It's fine to be for Obama, but not for his "change" or "leadership" abilities--this man has not walked his talk. Find another reason to support him if you must. These contradictions are what confuse many of us.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Wow, the trolls are out enforce tonight. Of course. He's a DEMOCRAT.
He's going to vote with the party >95% of the time. What we need is a leader who has a PLAN based on CHANGE. Hillary is not that. She does not have a plan. And all her supporters here selectively choose to use Bill's reputation to refer to her record, but then turn around out the other side of their face and say she's her own person. WHICH IS IT?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Troll??
I assure you, I am not a troll... as I said, I teach at a major California university, and I'm a licensed psychologist who has voted for Hillary Clinton.

You wrote, "He's going to vote with the party >95% of the time. What we need is a leader who has a PLAN based on CHANGE."

Yet, Hillary's and Obama's stated positions on issues are nearly identical.

How is this change?

If he is trying to focus on change, I would think he would have demonstrated his desire to change things over the past 3 years in the Senate--not by voting with the same party he says he is desperately trying to change (by doing...what?).

So are saying that Obama is trying to change the government we've inherited from the Bush administration? If so, of course all the Democrats are trying to do that, and have a plan to do that. Read their websites.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
37. Hillary on the Economy
Hillarys solutions for poverty are encompassed in her many different economic proposals. Here is a speech that outlines her economic plans. More details not in the speech are at the link below. As you recall, poverty rates dropped in the 1990s with Bill Clintons economic policies and she draws from that experience to build her plan in many areas.


http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/speech/view/?id=4284

ECONOMY: Policy Address on America's Economic Challenges

Jackie, thank you. That was absolutely wonderful. And those of you from Knoxville know Jackie Duffy as the choir teacher, the inspiration for the choral performances at the high school. And I asked her how long she'd been teaching, and she said, "Twenty years." And let's give her a round of applause for her dedication to education.

Thank you, Jackie.



I also want to thank Dr. Randy Flack, Knoxville community school superintendent, for being here. Thank you so much, Dr. Flack.

And Tim McGee, Lucas County assessor and one of my precinct captains, I thank him for coming.

I also want to thank and recognize Marcia Nichols, who is the political director of AFSCME Council 61.

And there is someone else I want to introduce. That is Sari Bourne, the field organizer for Marion, Lucas and Wayne Counties. Where is Sari? If she can wave or -- there she is back there. Thank you so much.

And someone else who is very, very dear to me, who has served Iowa for many years and has been such a great champion of education and libraries, and that is Christie Vilsack. Thank you so much, Christie.

Now, I'll be all over the state today and tomorrow, and then I think we're all going to give you a break for Thanksgiving. Don't you think that's a good idea? So everybody can gather with friends and family. That's what I'll be doing; going back home and working with my daughter to create Thanksgiving dinner, something that we like to do every year. Then we'll be back over the weekend, traveling the state, meeting as many Iowans as I possibly can.

But today I wanted to come to Knoxville to really sound the alarm about our economy. I think it's important that we take a few minutes to soberly look at what's happening in the American economy, because the next president will inherit, unfortunately, a lot of problems.

Now, this is kind of a familiar situation for me, because when my husband became president he inherited a lot of economic problems. As someone said the other day, there seems to be a pattern here: It takes a Clinton to clean up after a Bush. And so...



And so I want to spend some time telling you how I see this problem and talking about some of the things that I want to do to address it, because I believe that the next president will not have a minute to waste.

You know, we've got an economy that is increasingly interconnected with the global economy. It is shaped each day, not just by the billions of decisions that 300 million Americans make, but by billions more that are made around the world. And something that now happens far away from Iowa can have a ripple effect that impacts the quality of life and the standard of living for Americans.

Our economy in recent months has been the subject of increasing worry. We've got rising oil prices; we've got a deepening housing crisis; we have a falling dollar, in terms of its value; we have a ballooning national debt; and we have weakening consumer confidence.

Just 13 percent of Americans say that economic conditions in our country are positive. That is the lowest reading since the Gallup polling organization started asking the question back in 1991. And in 1991, it was the lowest that it had been in 40 years.

So we understand that we've got real problems, but we see nothing happening under this president to address those problems. Unfortunately, the president either doesn't see them or refuses to deal with them. And the net effect of it all is that the economy is not working for middle-class families.

Now, we all hope that the economy will remain resilient, and we know that, if we make the right choices, the American economy can, once again, create millions of jobs and lift up the middle class. But instead of positive policies aimed at making that happen, we've had the opposite: reckless fiscal policies and a president with a tragic habit of ignoring problems until they become crises.

The next president will be a steward of our economy at a time when the bills from eight years of neglect and mismanagement will be coming due. The next president will have to turn around our nation and our economy.

More than ever before, workers will need good job training for the jobs of this new century, but there is one job we can't afford on- the-job training for: That is the job of our next president. That could be the costliest job training in history.

Every day spent learning the ropes is another day of rising costs, mounting deficits, and growing anxiety for our families. And they cannot afford to keep waiting.

We need a president who understands the magnitude and complexity of the challenges we face and has the strength and experience to address them from day one, a president who has faith that the American people and the American economy are up to the task. And if you give me that chance, I will be that president for all of you.



In recent months, we've seen a number of troubling developments. First, we have a growing crisis in our housing market that is threatening our families and unsettling the capital markets. Over the past seven years, as incomes fell, wages stagnated, many families were lured into risky mortgages to finance their homes, with rates that would jump beyond what they could afford. And regulators did little to crack down on fly-by-night brokers peddling loans to unqualified buyers.

The result is 1.6 million foreclosures so far this year, nearly 1,500 in Iowa alone this past three months. That is almost double the figure from last year. And home prices across America are dropping. And unfortunately, a lot of experts predict they will drop even further.

That's serious no matter how you look at it, because 60 percent of the total wealth of middle-class families is in their home equity. And home equity withdrawals accounted for more than 8 percent of a family's disposal income in the last couple of years. So as housing prices decline, people have less money to draw on for everything from medical bills to college tuition.

To make matters worse, all of these mortgage woes have unsettled the capital markets. Banks have suffered enormous losses on securities linked to mortgages. They've written down more than $30 billion in their holdings. Investors are increasingly risk-adverse, companies are struggling to raise the capital they need to expand, and banks are increasingly unwilling to provide mortgages and other loans to families.

Second, skyrocketing energy prices are squeezing middle-class families already struggling with falling income and rising costs. You know, after September 11th, we had a historic opportunity to call Americans, to call all of us to energy independence. Instead, we outsourced our energy policy to Dick Cheney and the oil companies. And today we are even more dependent on foreign oil than we were on September the 11th.

Oil prices have increased more than 70 percent since the beginning of this year. Prices are moving up. It's now nearly $100 a barrel. Gas hit $3.11 per gallon nationwide, the highest price ever for this time of year. As a result, average families are spending roughly $2,000 more a year on energy costs, for electricity, home heating, and gas.

That's a huge increase. It's like a $2,000 energy tax in just the last seven years, more than three times what the typical American family received from the Bush tax cuts.

I talk to a lot of people who are worried they're not going to be able to get through the holidays and the winter months. We've been blessed; the weather has not yet gotten cold. So a lot of people have been holding their breath. But if we do have a cold spell, you know what will happen: So many folks will find it difficult to pay the price.

Third, while corporate profits are reaching new heights, our labor market is just not working for middle-class families. The Bush administration bragged about the fact that the unemployment rate is 4.7 percent. But do you know one of the reasons it's 4.7 percent? It's because millions of unemployed people have stopped looking for work.

We've had millions of Americans just drop out of the labor force. If you compare where we are today with where we were when President Bush took office, if you had the same number of people actually working and actively looking for jobs, the unemployment rate would be closer to 6.7 percent.

Corporate profits, however, are at a 40-year high. So here we contrast very high corporate profits, and the average American family has lost $1,000 in income in the last seven years.

And over the 12-month period that just ended in July, the slow growth in wages actually accounted for more than two-thirds of the increase in corporate profits. What does that mean? Well, the profits go up, but unlike every other time in our history, the CEOs and the boards of these companies are not sharing the wealth. So companies are actually profiting off of keeping workers' wages stagnant.

And American workers? We're working harder than ever. We're the hardest working people in the world. So even though American workers are increasing their productivity, their wages have remained flat. And the gap between the rich and everybody else has only gotten broader.

In 2005, the last year I could find the numbers for, all income gains went to the top 10 percent of households, while the bottom 90 percent saw their incomes decline. That is not the America that I grew up in; that is not the country that I believe is holding out the promise of prosperity for people willing to work hard and take responsibility.

The wealthiest 1 percent of Americans held 22 percent of America's income. That's an astonishing figure, and it is the highest level of income inequality since the beginning of the Great Depression in 1929.

Fourth, seven years of fiscal recklessness has driven up our debt, eroded confidence in our economy, and left us vulnerable to foreign creditors. Since President Bush took office, we've seen the most dramatic deterioration in our nation's financial health in history.

Reckless tax cuts for the wealthy, bloated spending that wasn't paid for have pushed up our national debt to $9.1 trillion. Think about that. When President Bush became president, he inherited a balanced budget and a surplus, a projected surplus of $5.6 trillion. Now we're back into deficits, and we have a $9 trillion debt. That forces us every day to borrow money from foreign countries like China.

So when people across Iowa ask me why it's so hard for the Bush administration to get tough on China and other trading partners, I tell them because these countries are now our bankers. We're their debtor. How can we truly enforce trade laws against a country like China when we have to borrow money to feed the massive debt that George Bush has driven up?

America's economic standing in the world has deteriorated. The value of the dollar has been dropping. It is now less valued than other currencies, something else that causes a lot of anxiety, if you look out and see what that might mean in years to come.

Finally, we face new threats that neither the president nor federal regulators have adequately acknowledged or addressed. Take the risk of so-called derivatives and other new financial products that Wall Street is selling.

These products offer new opportunities for investors to diversify portfolios and protect themselves against certain risks. For example, a farmer here in Iowa who's worried about the price of corn could buy a derivative that increases in value when the price of corn falls, so regardless of what happens with his crop, he has a chance to break even.

But derivatives also create new risks. They can swing wildly in value. It isn't always clear who owns them or how much they are really worth. Owners don't always understand the risks, which is why even the investment banks that created them are losing billions of dollars on these derivatives. And the ripples are being felt from Wall Street to Main Street.

I believe in our markets, but markets work best when there is information flow. And a lot of these new financial products are not transparent. The market doesn't have enough information about them, and certainly buyers don't. Today, we need a sensible middle ground between heavy-handed regulation and a hands-off approach to a risk that can hurt the innocent, as well as the sophisticated buyer.

Another new challenge on the horizon is the growth of sovereign wealth funds. Now, what are these? These are investment funds owned by foreign governments. They're not businesses. A government of a big oil-producing country creates a fund of money, puts a name on it, calling it an investment fund, and runs the investments out of this fund. They're using these funds to buy up billions of dollars worth of American stocks, real estate, and corporations.

Now, where exactly are countries getting the money for these funds? They're getting it from us. Our dependence on foreign oil means we send billions of dollars to countries like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. Our trade deficit and our ballooning debts mean we send billions of dollars in payments to countries like China. These countries then turn around and use our dollars to buy chunks of our economy.

Today, sovereign wealth funds hold an estimated $2.5 trillion. Within a decade, it's predicted they'll hold five times that much. We have never seen anything like this, and you don't hear a peep out of the Bush administration.

Now, why exactly are these sovereign wealth funds cause for concern? Well, let me ask you this: How would you feel if a foreign government used its sovereign wealth fund to buy an American car company and moved it overseas? Right now, that government might be our banker, but what if they became our boss, as well?

And how would you feel if countries used their investments in America to influence our foreign policy? What if a country set out to buy companies that compete with their national industries and shut them down?

I don't think we'd be comfortable with our own government speculating in real estate or buying up companies, and we should be doubly uncomfortable with the idea of a foreign government doing these things in our country. In short, these sovereign wealth funds represent a potential threat to our economic sovereignty if we don't act now to assess their impact on our economy.

So today we face an array of serious and growing economic challenges that call for a president willing to make responsible economic stewardship a key priority, willing to confront complex problems and devise comprehensive responses, a president who always puts the middle class first.

But for seven years, we've had just the opposite. In fact, we've had a president who's guided the economy with just one simple principle in mind: Take care of those at the top and let middle- class families fend for themselves. He calls it the ownership society, but it's really nothing more than "you're on your own."

And what do we get from President Bush when the fact is that middle-class families' income has dropped $1,000? A call to cut taxes again for America's largest corporations. As our trade deficit has doubled and we've lost an estimated 1.8 million jobs to China, what was President Bush's response? He threatened to veto trade adjustment assistance for displaced workers.

When foreclosures doubled last year, what was President Bush's response? Nothing. When families and community groups reported that crooked buyers and lenders were preying on homebuyers, nothing.

But when the housing crisis started to threaten large Wall Street investment banks, the Bush administration sprang into action. It convened meetings and conference calls with the heads of major Wall Street firms, eager to help however they could.

What was President Bush's answer to seniors who can't afford to retire? Privatize Social Security. What about rising oil prices? Veto funding to help low-income families pay their energy bills. Nine million children without health care? Veto health care for needy children.

His answer to middle-class families who feel like they're standing on a trap door, just one pink slip or one medical diagnosis or one missed mortgage payment away from falling through and losing everything? Tax cut after tax cut for the wealthiest of Americans.

Now, it's no surprise that the president continues to stand by his failed economic policies. This is, after all, a man who believes that stubbornness is a virtue.

What is truly amazing, however, is that the Republican candidates for president are determined to continue these failed policies. In fact, we can describe their approach to the economy in four simple words: more of the same.

They see $9 trillion in debt and say, "Why not trillions more?" They see tax cuts for wealthy Americans and big corporations and say, "Why not more?" They see one attempt to privatize Social Security and say, "Why not one more?" In short, they see eight years of Bush economics and say, "Why not eight more?"

Well, here's my response to that: You've got until January 20, 2009. And not one day more will we put up with these failed policies.



I can't wait to get on a stage to debate the Republican nominee as we make the case for change and they argue for the status quo. To them, it's "leave no Bush economic policy behind." But today, America is ready for change, but change is just a word without the strength and experience to make it happen.

It's easy to give a speech about restoring the middle class, but it is hard to actually do it. It's easy to make up a program that addresses every economic problem, but it's hard to figure out how to pay for it. We've been here before with a president who leaves the economic cupboard bear on Election Day.

This time, however, we won't just have to clean up the economic mess he made. We'll also have to end the war he started and address the health care crisis he left behind.



So we don't need more Republican scare tactics about a Social Security crisis. And we don't need a trillion-dollar tax increase that will hit families already facing higher energy, health care and college costs.

What we need is to focus on the real crises of health care and Medicare and on expanding opportunities for poor, working and middle- class families who are struggling now. If the gathering economic challenges strike all at once in a perfect storm, these families, America's families, will be the hardest hit.

So, in short, President Bush has abandoned the middle class, tilted the playing field against them, and said, "You're on your own." Republicans running to replace him say, "It's time for more of the same." And I say we need a new direction.

We had an economic strategy that worked in the 1990s. We believed that fiscal responsibility could spur economic growth, so we balanced the federal budget. We saw record surpluses, 22 million new jobs, the longest economic expansion in American history.

We believe that investments in our people were investments in our economy, so we expanded the earned income tax credit, provided health insurance to six million needy children, invested in Head Start and student loans. We saw historic declines in child poverty, family incomes up on average more than $8,000, and many Americans joining and staying in the middle class.

So today we face 21st-century challenges, some of which we could have never imagined back in the 1990s. But I believe the principles that guided us then are still relevant today. These are the principles that are truly at the start of my plan to help restore our economy.

I believe in an optimistic, progressive, modern approach to the economy. There's no limits to what we can do if we set our minds to it. And I believe that we can begin on day one to turn the economy around.

I have four components: creating new jobs, good jobs, essential to broad-based prosperity; restoring fairness to our economy; renewing the basic bargain that if you work hard you can get head; and putting our fiscal house in order again.

We're going to ask everybody to participate, but I am not going to ask the middle class to do more than it has already done. Staying afloat during the Bush administration has been a major accomplishment.



So we're going to take away the tax subsidies from the oil companies, and we're going to put those to work on behalf of clean, renewable, alternative energy.



We're going to force the pharmaceutical companies to compete. We're going to make them have to negotiate with Medicare to get those drug prices down.



We're going to tell the health insurance companies who have denied so many people coverage that they will no longer be able to discriminate against the sick, and we're going to insure every single American for quality, affordable health care.

We're going to fight any ill-advised effort to privatize Social Security. We're going to keep Social Security rock solid for generations. And we're going to help families save for retirement with new retirement accounts.



And when it comes to trade, we're going to have real, enforceable standards and protections for our workers and our environment. And unlike the current president, I will make trade enforcement a top priority again.



We're going to have a manufacturing policy, because I don't believe we can remain a great country with a strong economy if we don't make things in America. And I'm going to focus on making sure that we continue to do so.



We're going to pass laws that help people be able to join unions and bargain collectively for good wages and fair benefits again. We're going to focus on family farms, instead of corporate farms, and we're going to give family farms the support and the tools that they need to be successful.

And we are going to finally close the tax loopholes and stop giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas. Enough with outsourcing American jobs using taxpayer dollars.



But I'm going to go further than that: I will provide tax relief for the middle class, because you heard me say that, given the increase in energy prices since 2000, on average $2,000, that is far more than any middle-class family got out of these Bush tax cuts.

We're not going to be fooled. We're going to get back to real tax relief for middle-class families. I'll extend the middle-class tax cuts, give generous tax breaks to help families afford health care, offer up to $1,000 in matching tax cuts to help families save for retirement.

I'll expand the earned income tax credit, increase tax credits for child care, and provide a new $3,500 tax credit to help middle-class families send their children to college.



And I will tie the minimum wage to congressional salaries so that Congress can't get a raise until working men and women get a raise in the minimum wage.



That's what I will do as president, but there are things we should do right now, immediate action to face the economic challenges. That starts with steps to prevent as many housing foreclosures as possible.

I've already announced a series of policies to do just that, including a $1 billion fund to help states work with at-risk homeowners to prevent foreclosure.

Today, I call on the president to convene a crisis conference, bringing together all the stakeholders in the housing crisis, from lenders to homeowners to community groups, to figure out a solution to the housing crisis.

The time for hand-wringing and blame-placing is over. We need urgent action. And instead of just trying to help the big banks, how about helping America, Mr. President, to deal with this foreclosure challenge that we're facing?



Second, we need to immediately address the impending home heating crisis that could affect so many families this year. Now, the only long-term solution to high energy prices is reducing our dependence on foreign oil and lowering the carbon intensity of our economy.

I've outlined a comprehensive plan to do that that I talked about outside of Cedar Rapids, at Newton, and other places throughout Iowa, and I have set goals to be able to move toward achieving that. But it's not going to happen until we see the end of the Bush administration.

And I believe, if we do it, we can create five million new jobs. You know about blue-collar jobs and white-collar jobs. How about green-collar jobs for people who are going to put solar panels on rooftops, do the work on bio-fuels and everything else?

But with oil approaching $100 a barrel, it's going to cost families 20 percent to 25 percent more to heat their homes this winter. Too many families can't afford that.

So I was outraged last week when President Bush vetoed emergency energy assistance funding for families. Because of his veto, state agencies right here in Iowa and across America have been forced to turn away needy families. If President Bush gets his way, one million families will be cut off from heating assistance this winter. That is unconscionable.

I've lived in the White House. They keep it warm in the White House. And maybe the President should get out of the White House and come to Iowa and meet some of those families who are going to get cut off of energy assistance because of his veto.

I call on the President to put partisan politics aside and commit emergency funds today, not months down the road, when millions of seniors and low-income families have literally been left out in the cold. Let's ensure that no eligible family gets turned away and that assistance keeps pace with the rising energy prices.

In addition, we should commit $1 billion to an emergency home conservation program to lower costs for families in cold-weather states. This program will allow states to make weatherization kits available to three million families. These kits would include easy-to-install items, like a wrap, an insulating wrap for your water heater, caulking for doors and windows. We know from experience this can reduce a family's heating bill by up to 20 percent.

Third, we need to work with governments around the world to set guidelines to make these sovereign wealth funds more transparent. You know, here in America, we would never fear people from other nations who have confidence in the American economy and want to invest and create jobs here. But when the investor is a foreign government, we need to be vigilant about ensuring that the investments don't threaten our economic sovereignty.

Currently, these sovereign wealth funds don't have to disclose their holdings, their investment objectives, their investment returns, or their management structures, so it's hard to assess whether they're introducing unnecessary risks into our markets, hard to know whether they're buying or selling assets to make a profit or make a point.

So today I call on the Bush administration, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund to begin immediately crafting transparency guidelines for these sovereign wealth funds. Strict disclosure requirements are critical to help us understand how these funds are operating.

And, finally, we need to start addressing the risks posed by derivatives and other complex financial products. You can't let Wall Street send the bill to your street with the bright ideas that just don't work out.

Derivatives and products like them are posing real risks to families, as Wall Street writes down tens of billions of dollars in investments. Companies are taking the loss of a billion here and a billion there simply because the securities they own are worth less than they thought.

So as president, I will move to establish the 21st-century oversight we need in a 21st-century global marketplace. I will call for an immediate review of these new investment products and for plans to make them more transparent.

But I would hope that the Bush administration would do it before I'm sworn in. I don't want to see another 14 months of potential risks being injected into our economy with all of the other factors at work.

You know, President Franklin Roosevelt, who said a lot of really smart things, said economic laws are not made by nature. They're made by human beings.

Never before has America been at such an important economic crossroads. The threats to our success are many; they've been aided by misguided government policies and failed economic leadership and an effort to turn our government into a government of the few, by the few, and for the few.

But, you know, America's strengths are legendary, and I think we're ready to come together again and do what it takes to succeed. We just need a president ready to change our policies and lead our people.

I believe I can provide the economic leadership we need to make the changes that are so desperately required, and I ask for your support and your counsel and your help as we make this journey together.

Thank you all very, very much.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. She got a 'C' on that plan. Obama got an 'A' on his. Good try.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Oh! That grade was from the Wash Post right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Sorry but Obama's is less progressive
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/opinion/14krugman.html

Last week Hillary Clinton offered a broadly similar but somewhat larger proposal. (It also includes aid to families having trouble paying heating bills, which seems like a clever way to put cash in the hands of people likely to spend it.) The Edwards and Clinton proposals both contain provisions for bigger stimulus if the economy worsens.

And you have to say that Mrs. Clinton seems comfortable with and knowledgeable about economic policy. I’m sure the Hillary-haters will find some reason that’s a bad thing, but there’s something to be said for presidents who know what they’re talking about.

The Obama campaign’s initial response to the latest wave of bad economic news was, I’m sorry to say, disreputable: Mr. Obama’s top economic adviser claimed that the long-term tax-cut plan the candidate announced months ago is just what we need to keep the slump from “morphing into a drastic decline in consumer spending.” Hmm: claiming that the candidate is all-seeing, and that a tax cut originally proposed for other reasons is also a recession-fighting measure — doesn’t that sound familiar?

Anyway, on Sunday Mr. Obama came out with a real stimulus plan. As was the case with his health care plan, which fell short of universal coverage, his stimulus proposal is similar to those of the other Democratic candidates, but tilted to the right.

For example, the Obama plan appears to contain none of the alternative energy initiatives that are in both the Edwards and Clinton proposals, and emphasizes across-the-board tax cuts over both aid to the hardest-hit families and help for state and local governments. I know that Mr. Obama’s supporters hate to hear this, but he really is less progressive than his rivals on matters of domestic policy.

In short, the stimulus debate offers a pretty good portrait of the men and woman who would be president. And I haven’t said a word about their hairstyles.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
40. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
41. Hillary's foreign policy plan
Edited on Sat Feb-02-08 09:22 PM by LadyVT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
42. Hillary's poverty reduction plan (worldwide)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
45. The Clintonistas believe that having HRC means it will be just like having Bill in charge again
It won't of course but they insist that it will be. No wonder they are confused. Bill seems to be harboring the delusion that he's running for president himself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
47. For original poster
You originally wrote, "It's easy to see why. SHE HAS NO PLAN."
We have now posted the details of her plans on these issues.

It is great to be interested in the process, enough to post on these kinds of forums, anyway. It's great you've found someone you can support after the past eight years. A bit of unsolicited advice: If you want to support a candidate, people are more likely to carefully listen to you if you don't yell at them (caps), if you don't insult them, and if you have done your research first instead of making baseless allegations--which is so "old politics"!

Otherwise, everyone slings mud like gorillas in the zoo, and no one listens--therefore, nothing changes. ;)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC