Something I heard on NPR bothers me about Obama and the party in general

[sjdnb]

On NPR, there was a news report indicating Obama was traveling to churches in Idaho to 'dispel' the rumor that he was a Muslim. This isn't the first time I've heard how he (and, other politicians) were being referenced as if being a Muslim is some sort of 'smear'.

Now, I'm all for fighting against real smear campaigns, but, if I were a Muslim I'd be offended - and, as an American I am, that in America, a country that supposedly respects and upholds the Constitution - BTW, the only reference the Constitution direcly makes to religion is in article 6 where it states that there shall be no religious test for political office - that instead of fighting this type of religious bigotry, we are responding to it (some might say pandering).

I expect the religious wrong (aka right) to promote this whole 'it takes a Christian to lead this country' BS, but I would like to see the Dems - all of them - just say it just isn't relevant OR Constitutional.

[Yurovsky]

1. Sadly "Muslim" is a perjorative with too many Americans ...

and the CLINTONS of all people have been fostering a fair share of this hatred, referring to him by his full name (Barak Hussein Obama). That's no accident - they are playing to the prejudices of Americans, and for that I can never forgive them.

The Clintons are, IMHO, nothing more than 2-bit racists. Their behavior during this campaign has been repugnant.

[KittyWampus]

14. Obama SAYS the rumor is insulting to Muslims. OP'er either didn't even read what O said or

DID read what O said in Idaho and deliberately left it out to make the flamebait.

[sjdnb]

25. Here is what I've read so far about the appearance

From the AP:

The presidential candidate warned people about hoax e-mails they may get saying he's secretly a Muslim who might want to destroy the United States.

"I've been going to the same church for 20 years, praising Jesus," the Illinois senator told more than 10,000 people packed into Boise State's basketball arena. He is a member of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.

Obama's crowd and his mention of God was notable in Idaho, one of the smaller prizes among the 22 states holding Democratic presidential campaign contests on Super Tuesday. Idaho's caucuses offer 18 Democratic delegates to the national convention.

Obama urged those at the rally not to believe everything they hear about him.

"We've heard the usual sort of smear campaigns. I don't know if they've trickled up to Iowa," Obama said to laughter from the crowed, then quickly corrected himself. "Idaho. I know they were in Iowa.

"They send out these e-mails saying, `You know Obama, he's a Muslim and he doesn't pledge allegiance to the flag,'" he said. "Don't try to just insult not just me but people of the Islamic faith by playing on people's fears. I know who I am." (And, he might as well have added 'And, I'm not a Muslim') Especially, given the follow up:

"And then there are people who say, `Well, he doesn't believe in the Second Amendment,' even though I come from a state — we've got a lot of hunters in downstate Illinois. And I have no intention of taking away folks' guns."

Sorry, I'm still disappointed - and, I've already posted what I'd rather he'd have done and said.

[benEzra]

31. The question he needs to address on the gun issue...

"And then there are people who say, `Well, he doesn't believe in the Second Amendment,' even though I come from a state — we've got a lot of hunters in downstate Illinois. And I have no intention of taking away folks' guns."

The area he needs to address on the gun issue is how he feels about the guns owned by the 4 out of 5 gun owners who don't hunt. Particularly handguns and target rifles/defensive carbines, aka "assault weapons."

It was the DLC's "assault weapon" bait-and-switch in the early '90s that led to the "Dems'll-take-yer-guns" meme, not imaginary attacks on 19th-century-style deer rifles. Addressing that should be a priority of the candidates BEFORE the nomination, IMHO. Otherwise we could end up with a repeat of 1994.

The 2006 elections showed how to defuse the gun issue, namely drop all support for new bans on legal guns and let the election be decided on the issues people say are more important.


----------------------
Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)

The Conservative Roots of U.S. Gun Control

[Zueda]

2. You wouldn't want a muslim to vote for him thinking he was muslim...

only to find out afterwards that he really wasn't would you? That would be wrong. Obama haves to set the record straight.

[sjdnb]

5. Then, why not travel to mosques to do so?

Just Christian churches? Doesn't pass the smell test for me. And, it's not just him - I'm sure he feels pressured to do it, it's a bigger problem for the country - and, not just the Muslim population.

In the 40's it was the Japanese, for centuries the African Americans, it just isn't right to buy into it and not stand up for whatever group is being targeted by such bigotry.

[ellacott]

11. It's not just churches

He says this frequently at his campaign speeches.

[sjdnb]

12. But, you indicated it was to let Muslims know ....

wouldn't it follow he would go somewhere he'd know Muslims would be?

[ellacott]

17. I didn't say it was to let Muslims know

He's just trying to refute a false email.

[thunder rising]

3. Valid point, let's get him elected and we can have that conversation. till then

the deadliest people in WORLD (The American Christian) will crucify anybody that's not one of their kind of Christians. (You know the kind that invites themselves into the first half of "that book" that does not have shit to do with them.

[BeyondGeography]

4. You're right, Obama should just let those e-mails speak for themselves

:thumbsup:

[napi21]

9. Absolutely NOT! Have you forgotten Kerry and the Swift Boaters?

I don't LIKE IT, but I believe the statement "Any lie left unanswered for more than 48 hours becomes the truth!"

Many of us have nothing against Muslims, but this is similar to the feelings against the Germans when we were at war with them, and the Japanese when were were at war with them! Shrub has made matters worse this time by lumping the "Entire Middle East" into the enemy catagory. My Dad bought a Volkswagen in 1957 and many of the people he worked with wouldn't speak to him for almost a year (because he bought a GERMAN CAR!)

[BeyondGeography]

15. You're one of those folks who needs the Sarcasm sign, I guess

We agree.

[napi21]

26. Sorry. I usually don't, but there have been so many silly things being

posted on DU lately, I guess I lost my link to reality.

[BeyondGeography]

28. We agree again

Silly season is raging.

[TexasObserver]

6. You need to address your concerns to Hillary

Tell her to stop her supporters from sending the same wretched email about Obama they've been sending around the country the past year. They're not fooling anyone. Everyone knows the Clintons are behind it.

The leopard can't change his spots and the skunks can't change their stripes.

[sjdnb]

8. Show me verifiable proof and I will ... just saying it is

just another smear tactic.

And, your response does not address the way it is being responded to by Obama and the Dems at large. Which, IMO, is reinforcing bigotry.

Gosh, I wish JE was still in this race.

[stahbrett]

7. In an ideal world...

In an ideal world where one's religious beliefs/non-beliefs are all considered equivalent/irrelevant, you'd be on to something. But when being "caught" being a secret Muslim would damage his chances considerably, it makes all of the sense in the world to publicly and repeatedly correct the false allegations.

[patrice]

10. I suppose it's too much to hope that such correction would include something

such as "Americans should address their religious bigotries. Why should Muslim Americans have less respect than anyone else?"

I know all of the reasons candidates can't say things, but I reject them, because I think it's time for all people to speak honestly, as our lives depend upon it.

Welcome to DU stahbret! :hi: Enjoy!

[KittyWampus]

13. Obama SAYS the rumor is insulting to Muslims. You didn't even read O's quote and start a thread?a

How pathetic is that?

Actually, I think you did read O's entire quote but decided to start this thread as flamebait.

[sjdnb]

18. I read the quote, still question his response ...

especially, when he targets Christians and says things like "Praise Jesus" (in the context of addressing the so-called 'smear'). Our Constitution FORBIDS a religious litmus test, but, more importantly, I'd be impressed if he had gone to a mosque and said something like:

'You know, lot's of folks in this country are using religion to divide us' (he IS the uniter, right?). They ignore the Constitution, when it suits their purpose. Try to infer that the country was founded as a Christian country - and, that unless you're a Christian, you cannot and should not be allowed to hold a significant political office. I happen to be a Christian, but, it should not matter. Anyone who uses any religion, as a litmus test, or, tries to besmirch another American's faith for political gain, is neither a good American or a good Christian.'

[Perky]

16. He addresed the smear in Boise today

by saying that both Christians and Moslems ought to be offended by it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. Thanks for your concern. nt

[styersc]

20. According to AP, he is also ensuring folks of his 2nd amendment

credentials. Perhaps in Georgia he will try convince voters he loves dog fighting.

[cali]

Really, you've heard of other politicians smeared as being

Muslim Manchurian candidates who want to sell the country out to the "Radical Islamic Terrorists"? Because make no mistake, that's exactly what the Obama/Muslim stuff is about. Please name those politicians that YOU claim have been smeared in a like manner.

[TexasObserver]

22. Yeah, that's the one! Everyone gets that, right!!

I'm thinking there's an appropriate response to that. Oh yes, here it is.

To those who say you can't prove it's the Clintons behind it: "Don't piss down our backs and tell us it's raining!"

Don't you love the Rovian defense: If you can't prove it, the Clintons aren't behind it.

Who benefits?

The thing that makes me angry about this dirty trick by the Clintons is the way I have never allowed anyone to ply Juanita Brodderick or Vince Foster stories in my presence, and never will. You don't see those stories floating around in emails the past year because Team Obama hasn't done that, Team Edwards didn't do that, and the other Democrats didn't do it. Those are rightwing tactics, and we as a party abhor them.

Good and proper Democrats should be saying STFU to anyone anywhere who tries to sell the Obama Muslim theme. Of all people, the Clinton supporters should be standing up and knocking the story down, but many do not. They want it out there. Disgusting.

[sjdnb]

24. I am an aethist and the LAST person to want any religion affecting

the politics or policies of our country - however, as of now, while the most Constitutional position, clearly not the predominant, culturally. So, given I respect the fact that others are entitled to believe as they wish, I have to accept it and rely on the Constitution and those sworn to uphold it, to insure that at a minimum, no religion is promoted or prohibited.

[TexasObserver]

30. Well, I respect your atheism as much as any religion

I don't think religion is better than atheism. They're different point of views. As Tommy Jefferson said, it matters not to me whether you've got one God or twenty, or in your case NONE.

I don't defend religions, but churches are about much more than religion, per se, particularly among black Americans.

[cali]

21. Really, you've heard of other politicians smeared as being

Muslim Manchurian candidates who want to sell the country out to the "Radical Islamic Terrorists"? Because make no mistake, that's exactly what the Obama/Muslim stuff is about. Please name those politicians that YOU claim have been smeared in a like manner.

[sjdnb]

23. Keith Ellison

Glenn Beck (on what he wanted to say): 'Sir, prove to me that you are not working with our enemies.' " Beck added: "I'm not accusing you of being an enemy, but that's the way I feel, and I think a lot of Americans will feel that way."

American Family Association: "Keith Ellison, D-Minn., the first Muslim elected to the United States Congress, has announced that he will not take his oath of office on the Bible, but on the bible of Islam, the Koran.

He should not be allowed to do so -- not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American civilization."

"First, it is an act of hubris that perfectly exemplifies multiculturalist activism -- my culture trumps America's culture. What Ellison and his Muslim and leftist supporters are saying is that it is of no consequence what America holds as its holiest book; all that matters is what any individual holds to be his holiest book."

I have more, if you'd like more. But, you can just Google it and find a plenty.

[cali]

27. Yes, of course. And the fact that Ellison is

a Muslim doesn't make it any better. But you used politicians in the plural. And why not discuss my main point which is that Obama is being smeared as a Muslim Manchurian Candidate on the side of "Islamic terrorists"? What should he do about? Would it make you happy if he just did nothing?

[sjdnb]

29. No, I wanted him to do more ... have you bothered to read the thread?

Or, did you just automatically defend Obama - it wasn't only about Obama, but Dem cowardice at confronting the bigotry, in general. I thought I made that clear in my original post, but maybe I need to post it in CAPS.

BTW - just what did you mean by the 'fact that Ellison is a Muslim didn't make it any better'? I'm sure that was just unfortunate wording on your part, but please clarify.

Further, I think, Ellison, as a Muslim, having the courage to request his oath be taken using the Koran, reinforcing Constitutional principles, was one of the bravest, most patriotic, and pro-Constitutional acts I've witnessed in a long time.