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Was a vote for Kerry/Edwards a pro-Iraq War vote?

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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:48 PM
Original message
Was a vote for Kerry/Edwards a pro-Iraq War vote?
Edited on Sat Feb-02-08 09:49 PM by Skip Intro
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. You mean against Bush? No.
But in terms of the 2004 primary, I understand that Deaniacs thought so, and it is hard to argue that. I supported Kerry then and Obama now. With Kerry, I dealt with the vote because I felt that everything else about him was so particularly compelling I was willing to overlook it and because he admitted he made a mistake.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. This Deaniac says yes, and back then it was true.
Today is a different matter for two reasons:

John Edward has apologized for his vote and wants to change our foreign policy.

Kerry has been "regretful" of his IWR (that comes close to an apology depending on who you ask) and sees the need to change our foreign policy as well.

It's either that or go along with PNAC Hillary, which is the most distasteful option of all.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Hillary has also expressed regret over the vote. Is her sig on PNAC?
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. She's known as a fan of PNAC, and her war votes/Iran beligerence sustains that
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Links?
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. back that up, pls
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Mr President Do Not Rush To War"
When Kerry saw that Bush was not letting the inspections work, he spoke out strongly. When Bush launched the war, he expressed his deep distress that it had come to that. When he found out about the DSM, he attempted to get an investigation. In 2004, he wasn't saying "stay the course", he was calling for withdrawal beginning in 2005. He was one of the first to call for a timeline in 2005.

Hillary Clinton is not fit to lick the feet of John Kerry.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. She said in her statement on the vote that it was not a vote for pre-emptive war.
that's just a fact you seem to want to ignore
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I don't give a fuck about her vote
I care about the four years after her vote when she supported the damn war.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Like Obama?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. No, like this
There is a very easy way to prevent anyone from being put into harm’s way, that is for Saddam Hussein to disarm. And I have absolutely no belief that he will. I have to say that this is something I’ve followed for more than a decade. If he were serious about disarming, he would have been much more forthcoming. . . . I ended up voting for the resolution after carefully reviewing the information, intelligence that I had available, talking with people whose opinions I trusted, trying to discount the political or other factors that I didn’t believe should be in any way part of this decision.
Hillary addresses Code Pink, March 7, 2003.

Tonight, the President gave Saddam Hussein one last chance to avoid war, and the world hopes that Saddam Hussein will finally hear this ultimatum, understand the severity of those words, and act accordingly. While we wish there were more international support for the effort to disarm Saddam Hussein, at this critical juncture it is important for all of us to come together in support of our troops and pray that, if war does occur, this mission is accomplished swiftly and decisively with minimum loss of life and civilian casualties.
March 17 2003 (Invasion)
We are in a two-front war. We are offense in Iraq and we have to finish the job
March 19 2003

“We must stay the course” in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and asked for more troops to finish the job.
“We have to exert all of our efforts militarily”
November 29, 2003 Hilary visits the troops In Iraq and Afghanistan

I am both a little optimistic and a little pessimistic, but what I'm trying to do is be realistic about where we are and what we need to be successful. We have no option but to stay involved and committed.
Dec 15, 2003 Speech to CFR

"The consensus was the same, from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration," she said. "It was the same intelligence belief that our allies and friends around the world shared.
"But I think that in the case of the administration, they really believed it. They really thought they were right, but they didn't let enough sunlight into their thinking process to really have the kind of debate that needs to take place when a serious decision occurs like that." (They believed it, but her people didn't??)
April 2004 Larry King

It's regrettable that the security needs have increased so much. On the other hand, I think you can look at the country as a whole and see that there are many parts of Iraq that are functioning quite well," Clinton said.
It is time for the President to stop serving up platitudes and present us with a plan for finishing this war with success and honor – not a rigid timetable that terrorists can exploit, but a public plan for winning and concluding the war.
Nov 2005 Letter To Constituents

nor do I think it is smart strategy to set a date certain.
June 2006 TBA

"Now it's time to say the redeployment should start in 90 days or the Congress will revoke authorization for this war,"
Feb 2007


FACTS Are Your
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Double standard from you.
Obamas till votes to fund the war and you don't want to hold that against him.
Hillary said that her vote was not for pre-emptive war.
Kerry said the same thing. But you won't admit that you know that because you want to assault Hillary at every turn.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Eeeeeyahhhhh, and I have some nice swampland available if you want to buy it...
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. "Hillary Clinton is not fit to lick the feet of John Kerry" - man -
you are really sick.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. No
You and Saracat and your irrational hatred of Obama are what's sick. The Clinton campaign engaged in the same racial "southern strategy" of Nixon and Reagan. They've attempted to disenfranchise voters in 3 elections. They're playing games with MI & FL, pretending they're real when everyone knows they're not. Right now, Bill is out there attacking Teddy for NCLB when he knows full well Hillary voted for the damn thing too. They lie day in and day out. They're disgusting human beings and it's a pity some people's obsession with other candidates is blinding them to what we've all known about the Clintons for years.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I don't hate Obama. And I am not in the habit of calling other people
disgusting.

If Obama wins, I would be thrilled. I just like Hillary better.

This primary season has really brought out the worst in alot of people.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. a war supporter
Right. You like the centrist DLC war supporter, you betcha. Again, I don't know where the irrational hatred comes from, but I know you and Saracat better than that and you don't like Hillary Clinton's politics.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Obama is a war supporter - how can you be so blind?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4354003&mesg_id=4354003

He wants to go into Pakistan and Afghanistan.

I am not saying anything against that. As someone who follows foreign affairs, I know how important this is.

Just don't fool yourself into thinking that Obama wants to bring the troops home - he wants to redeploy them to where they need to be.

Question - if Kerry would have endorsed Clinton, what would you have done? I find it really interesting how all of the Kerrycrats support Obama....like sheep....except for Kerrygoddess, and I heard she got alot of shit for going against Kerry.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. You ought to be ASHAMED telling that lie
He wants to get Afghanistan done right, and go after bin laden in Pakistan which is what should have been done all along. He is not going to put troops in Pakistan, that is a flat lie and I don't know what has come over you to tell it.

Pete is working for Hillary. Follow the money.

I was supporting Obama from the beginning. I only looked at Biden because it wasn't looking like Obama was going to take off. Most of the Kerry people were as well. His endorsement had little to do with people's positions except to be glad he, once again, showed the courage to lead.

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Tom Strong Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Total pwnage! n/t
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. I didn't support either Edwards or Kerry...
in the primaries. I supported Dean, who was against the war. And for precisely the same reason that I support Obama now. The war was stupid, to vote for the IWR (or co-sponsor it like Edwards) showed a lack of judgment and leadership. Not to mention that I thought (rightly) that the Republicans would use it against Kerry. (remember all those flip flops and "I was for the war before I was against it" crap they would pull out?)

Kerry looked weak and inconsistent.

Hillary hasn't made the "mistake" of saying that her vote for the IWR was flat out wrong... but then, that works against her as well.

One of the things people don't like about Democrats is that we often appear to lack fortitude in our decisions, that we "waffle" on a lot of things. (Impeach Bush and Cheney for 935 lies about Iraq? Well, yes, no, maybe).

People would rather see a clear set of principles and leadership, even if they disagree with them.

It hurt Kerry, it will definitely hurt Hillary.

Despite that, Kerry almost won (and maybe did except it was close enough to steal). Hillary won't keep it even close.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Let's put it this way: it wasn't a totally anti-Iraq War vote
but it was MORE anti-Iraq War than four more years of Bush/Cheney
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pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kerry/Edwards voted the same as Hillary and no one here attacked them
Very hypocritical.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Kerry, unlike Hillary, spoke out against Bush several times before Bush invaded,
including this speech at Georgetown University on Thursday, January 23, 2003:

As our government conducts one war and prepares for another, I come here today to make clear that we can do a better job of making our country safer and stronger. We need a new approach to national security - a bold, progressive internationalism that stands in stark contrast to the too often belligerent and myopic unilateralism of the Bush Administration. I offer this new course at a critical moment for the country that we love, and the world in which we live and lead. Thanks to the work and sacrifice of generations who opposed aggression and defended freedom, for others as well as ourselves, America now stands as the world's foremost power. We should be proud: Not since the age of the Romans have one people achieved such preeminence. But we are not Romans; we do not seek an empire. We are Americans, trustees of a vision and a heritage that commit us to the values of democracy and the universal cause of human rights. So while we can be proud, we must be purposeful and mindful of our principles: And we must be patient - aware that there is no such thing as the end of history. With great power, comes grave responsibility.

<...>
Second, without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. He miscalculated an eight-year war with Iran. He miscalculated the invasion of Kuwait. He miscalculated America's response to that act of naked aggression. He miscalculated the result of setting oil rigs on fire. He miscalculated the impact of sending scuds into Israel and trying to assassinate an American President. He miscalculated his own military strength. He miscalculated the Arab world's response to his misconduct. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm.

So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War. Regrettably the current Administration failed to take the opportunity to bring this issue to the United Nations two years ago or immediately after September 11th, when we had such unity of spirit with our allies. When it finally did speak, it was with hasty war talk instead of a coherent call for Iraqi disarmament. And that made it possible for other Arab regimes to shift their focus to the perils of war for themselves rather than keeping the focus on the perils posed by Saddam's deadly arsenal. Indeed, for a time, the Administration's unilateralism, in effect, elevated Saddam in the eyes of his neighbors to a level he never would have achieved on his own, undermining America's standing with most of the coalition partners which had joined us in repelling the invasion of Kuwait a decade ago.

In U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the United Nations has now affirmed that Saddam Hussein must disarm or face the most serious consequences. Let me make it clear that the burden is resoundingly on Saddam Hussein to live up to the ceasefire agreement he signed and make clear to the world how he disposed of weapons he previously admitted to possessing. But the burden is also clearly on the Bush Administration to do the hard work of building a broad coalition at the U.N. and the necessary work of educating America about the rationale for war. As I have said frequently and repeat here today, the United States should never go to war because it wants to, the United States should go to war because we have to. And we don't have to until we have exhausted the remedies available, built legitimacy and earned the consent of the American people, absent, of course, an imminent threat requiring urgent action.

The Administration must pass this test. I believe they must take the time to do the hard work of diplomacy. They must do a better job of making their case to the American people and to the world.

I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.


Kerry has never wavered in calling out Bush on his immoral war, and he led the effort to set a deadline for withdrawal.

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pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Hillary has also spoken out many times against Bush's invasion
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gasoline highway Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. stop trying to grab attention...
There was already a thread about this and as an Obama supporter you are making a very valid point. It is not a pro-Iraq war vote to vote for her now, but it is a vote for bad judgment and concern over her own legacy/future electability.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. well thanks for the advice, and happy first day on DU!
at least she didn't say she pressed the wrong button, eh?
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. You have all of 14 replies and you are going to come in here and
tell another DUer not to post something? What arrogance.

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gasoline highway Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. its not arrogance
its a criticism of the site on the whole. it focuses too much on "SENSATIONALIZED TOPIC" REPLY saying "YEAH" or "FUCK YOU" then start another thread when you come up with something. I'm not telling anyone to do anything merely pointing something out.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Then leave.
Or learn something....you don't walk into someone else's home and immediately start criticizing it and expect to be welcome.

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gasoline highway Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. You're only attacking me because you're a Hillary supporter...
The idea that you're better then someone because you've been on here longer, or that this is your "home" is ridiculous. This is an open forum that tyranny should not be imposed on. Instead of responding to my criticisms you make personal attacks on me, how grown up, first thing they teach you not to do in debating courses. GREAT, GREAT, GREAT.
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