William Winter is the most popular past Democratic governor of Mississippi who's still living.
I live in Mississippi. I know these things.
Want to know what kind of man Ray Mabus is? Read this:
CHUNG: This one has it all: sex, adultery, deceit, religion, shattered trust, and a legal case that may not only impact on all priest abuse cases, but could potentially reshape the very relationship between religion and American law. Despite its scope, the story began the way so many good stories begin, boy meets girl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a wonderful wife.
CHUNG (voice-over): These were some of the happier times for then Governor Ray Mabus and his wife, Julie Mabus. They married in 1987. Almost a year later, Ray Mabus was elected governor of Mississippi. Six years later, he became the U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia. They had two daughters together, but the public life they led was taking its toll on the marriage.
Julie Mabus had an affair with an old college friend. Ray Mabus suspected she was being unfaithful, but wanted proof in case he filed for divorce. So the former governor called a meeting with his wife and her priest, Jerry McBride (ph), to confront her with the affair. The former governor and Reverend McBride secretly agreed to tape the conversation. Ray Mabus later went on to use the tape in their divorce proceedings.
Julie was outraged and felt betrayed by her now ex-husband and her priest. She's filed a lawsuit against St. James Church in Jackson, Mississippi, the Episcopal diocese of Mississippi and her former priest, Jerry McBride.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): Today, Julie Mabus is Julie Hines. And she is telling her story. Her former husband and the defendants in this case declined to appear. Julie, thank you so much for being with us.
JULIE HINES, EX-WIFE OF RAY MABUS: Thank you for being interested in the story.
CHUNG: All right. Tell me, how would you describe your relationship with your priest?
HINES: He had been a friend of my family's for nearly 25 years. He was the priest at the church my mother and father started 50 years ago. He buried my mother. He married my husband -- my ex-husband and me. He baptized our children. He was a close friend.
CHUNG: Did you trust him implicitly? HINES: Without a shadow of a doubt. He had my trust completely.
CHUNG: All right. So, we'll move forward to the time when you were in the middle of your potential divorce, right? You had asked your husband for a divorce?
HINES: Yes.
CHUNG: And you're asked to come to a meeting with you -- it would be you, your husband and your priest. Did you think anything was unusual about that?
HINES: My ex-husband told me a day before that he had been emotionally dishonest with me and that he wanted to meet with me and he wanted Jerry there as support for both of us. And I didn't know what it was about, but I was certainly willing to be there.
CHUNG: So, this is the meeting that was taped?
HINES: Yes.
CHUNG: Did you have any idea that the meeting would be taped?
HINES: I had no idea what the meeting was about, much less that it would be taped.
CHUNG: Did you think it was going to be confidential between the three of you?
HINES: Absolutely.
CHUNG: Well, then, your husband leaves the room and you're having a conversation with your priest.
HINES: Yes.
CHUNG: And the tape is still rolling, but you don't know that.
HINES: It was one of three tapes was still rolling.
CHUNG: One of three?
HINES: Three.
CHUNG: Oh, my heavens. All right. So, this is a -- from the transcript of the taped conversation, Jerry McBride says "I just want to talk to you. This is not an ambush on my part. I'm here because I love you."
HINES: Yes.
CHUNG: Did you believe him at that time?
HINES: Once the meeting got started and they -- Ray, my ex- husband, began to say the things to me, almost instantly, the whole picture became clear to me. CHUNG: What was that?
HINES: That they had been talking, they had been planning, they had planned the whole event. And all of the sudden, my trust was shattered. And I was...
CHUNG: You felt like you were being set up?
HINES: Yes. Once they presented -- Ray presented me with what he had to say, and Jerry had gone through his own personal problems and I had stood by his side, and so it dawned on me that they must have gotten together and planned this. And I was frightened. I was outraged. I was devastated.
CHUNG: All right. So, eventually, it really did have a profound effect on your case, on your divorce case, because your husband was able to charge you with adultery -- I mean, use adultery because you admitted to the affair in the tape.
HINES: Yes.
CHUNG: And for that, you were unable to get full custody of your children, that is correct?
HINES: Also, because I was so angry and so upset and said things that I shouldn't have said and reacted in ways that I should not have reacted, my ex-husband hired a psychiatrist as an expert witness. And he testified that without ever having one meeting with me that I was unfit and that Ray should get custody of the children. And he got full, legal custody of the children.
CHUNG: How old are your daughters?
HINES: Ten and 12.
CHUNG: Do you see them?
HINES: Well, we split physical custody, but he has the -- the judge gave him full decisionmaking powers and I'm treated as a man off the street, if you will.
CHUNG: That must hurt.
HINES: It's extraordinarily painful.
CHUNG: So, what do you want to accomplish with this lawsuit?
HINES: I was abandoned and betrayed by my...
CHUNG: I'm sorry. Forgive me, I interrupted you. Go ahead.
HINES: I'm so sorry -- by my priest and by my church and the diocese. And what I want is for my priest to be accountable. And I want the church to be accountable for their employee. And I want to make sure that this never, ever happens to anybody else again. CHUNG: All right. But you did have an affair. You did admit to it. The church and your priest actually didn't do anything legally wrong because in your state, you can record someone without one person's permission. In other words, with just one person's permission, you can. So, something morally might be wrong, you could make a case for that, but nothing legally.
HINES: I made a mistake. I am very sorry and I have apologized to Lloyd (ph).
CHUNG: What mistake?
HINES: By having the affair, by reaching out to an old friend and by having an affair. It was wrong. But this case is not about that. It's about a priest's responsibility to his parishioner. And it's about the church's responsibility to protect, take care of one and overseeing one of its employees. So, they have a different and a higher level of standard than someone who is not in the priesthood.
CHUNG: This is a statement. We asked for a response from Jerry McBride and his attorney said, "as the parish priest for Mr. and Mrs. Mabus, Jerry McBride accepted an invitation from Ray Mabus to come to the Mabus residence along with Ms. Mabus' sister, but she couldn't make it, "for the sole purpose of providing support for a family in deep crisis. His mission was not one of ill will, but rather one of good will."
And we were unable to get a response from the attorney for the diocese nor the attorney for the St. James Church.
Basically, what you're saying is that you don't approve of the behavior of the behavior of the church and of the priest, correct? But -- don't you think that's a tough case to push? I mean, are you going to win? Will you win?
HINES: You know, I don't know. One thing I wanted to make sure was that this was raised to national awareness, so it wouldn't happen again. I have my trust in a jury and a judge. I want them to be held accountable and whatever the decision is, I will live with it.
CHUNG: All right. Very quickly, five seconds, what has this done to your faith?
HINES: It has rocked my faith, my trust in my church. I still have a profound belief, but it has destroyed so much. I'm trying to rebuild it now with my church.
CHUNG: Julie Hines, thank you so much for being with us.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0207/05/cct.00.html
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