A history lesson

[LandOLincoln]

It has been suggested that "Yes we can!" (the English translation of "Si se puede!") is original to the Obama campaign. Nothing could be further from the truth.

"Si se puede" is the slogan of the United Farm Workers. http://www.ufw.org/

The United Farm Workers have endorsed HILLARY CLINTON for president, and UFW icon Dolores Huerta is traveling with Hillary Clinton and introducing her at every campaign event.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolores_Huerta

Mil gracias.

[FrenchieCat]

1. No, no one said that, that I know of.

It was alway understood how that came about; naturally after New Hampshire's loss...and going into Nevada.

But he was given permission to use it, and so he has.

He was first to use in this campaign.....that, I will say.

[sandnsea]

2. Someone asked about it

and the tendency of Hillary's campaign to co-opt the slogans and themes of the Obama campaign. The origination of the UFW connection was explained, but apparently this poster reacted before reading the entire thread.

[LandOLincoln]

4. More merde. I read the thread, and the UFW

connection was buried 3/4 of the way down, with no replies--and no mention that THE UFW HAS ENDORSED HILLARY.

[sandnsea]

5. Well I posted that info myself

so go read it again.

[LandOLincoln]

7. Uh huh. And that contradicts what I just said, how? n/t

[sandnsea]

9. *sigh* I can't believe this is an issue

You said, "no mention that the UFW had endorsed Hillary"

Well yes I did.

"Obama got the culinary endorsement in NV and started using it there, with permission. Hillary got the actual UFW in CA, so her use is legitimate there."

[LandOLincoln]

14. Lo siento--yes you did.

But somehow it got lost in the rest of the bull puckey that went with it:

"Yes We Can is United Farm Workers. Obama got the culinary endorsement in NV and started using it there, with permission. Hillary got the actual UFW in CA, so her use is legitimate there.

Fired UP! Ready to Go!

Totally Obama. "Change Agent", totally trying to play off Obama. And since they can't figure out what to do with "hope", they ridicule it.

It's the most pathetic campaign I've seen in years and the only hope they would have is running against the even more pathetic McCain or Romney.

I do not know why we are doing this to ourselves."

****

Neither can I--but I can offer some educated guesses, if you're interested.

[LandOLincoln]

3. Merde, Frenchie. Sorry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4363129

and "He was given permission???" Are you insinuating that "Si se puede" is copyrighted? By whom, pray? The UFW ?

The UFW has endorsed Hillary.

[sandnsea]

6. Chavez Family

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/01/obamas_si_se_puede.html

[LandOLincoln]

10. Yeah, so? Interesting that you didn't include this

in your response to that pathetically ignorant thread in the first place.

[sandnsea]

11. Well, again, yes I did

"Nobody "owns" it, except the Cesar Chavez family actually, iirc."

Why don't you let it go dude.

[LandOLincoln]

17. First, I'm not a "dude."

Second, I was born and grew up in Illinois, and came of age there politically in the 1960s.

DO NOT EVEN THINK of presuming to tell me about Illinois politics, or of Senator Obama's background therein.

[FrenchieCat]

8. So what is the question again?

It doesn't matter....the point is who is using something in their campaign that gets echoed by the other campaigns.

Yes we can or Sise puede wasn't first used by the Hillary campaign. Hillary just used it as a reactive to Obama. Which only makes her look less original, so I don't really mind that she coops good ideas. Just that it is being noticed.

I just read a Tom Tommorow comic that basically stated the same in reference to Change....that all of the Republicans were now using it, to the extent that the White House calls and asks "what's this change thing I keep hearing about?"

Get my point?

[LandOLincoln]

12. Frenchie, I'm losing all respect for you. You can't seem to deal with

the simple fact that 'Si se puede!" is famous as the UFW's slogan--and that the UFW has endorsed Hillary Clinton.

Your claim that "Hillary just used it as a reactive to Obama" is beyond pathetic. What's happened to you?

[MH1]

15. If I may jump in, I think you are seeing this through a distorted lens.

Yes, the slogan first gained popular movement use with Cesar Chavez and the UFW.

I don't know about copyright or trademark or whatever legal construct might apply - I didn't see the other thread and won't go look for it, and it seems to me it would be an odd capitulation of a supposedly progressive movement to the corporate system, if they did try to take "ownership" of a common three word phrase - I mean give me a f---in' break already, but if they did, then that's an important fact.

Either way, is it not true that the first use of "Yes we can" and "Si se puede" in the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign was by the Obama campaign?

If that is not true, then please provide a link to the Hillary campaign's use of it prior to the Obama campaign.

If it is true, then are you saying that it is "irrelevant" to whether the Hillary campaign uses it now?

In that case you have a point, but some people think a tendency to copycat rather than lead is interesting and maybe relevant, and that the facts listed above indicate such a tendency.

For myself, I have absolutely no problem with a leader who is quick to recognize a good idea and use it to achieve their own organization's goals. I think it is an essential quality of leadership to be able to do so. However they also have to have the grace to credit the originator of the idea, and they also need to demonstrate the ability to generate good original ideas themselves.

Just my .02. Please don't fall into the DU trap of getting all twisted up over stupid meaningless b.s. Which comes from both sides on this forum.

[LandOLincoln]

16. Excuse me? So you think it's "stupid meaningless b.s." that

one campaign--by and large supported by and pandering to the very young and uninformed--has co-opted the slogan of an organization that in fact supports and has endorsed the opposing candidate?

And you want to dismiss it as "stupid meaningless b.s" when those of us who were there, who know the origin of the slogan, presume to correct the ignorance of one of the demographics Senator Obama has so very cynically and divisively courted in the course of a campaign that is--quite frankly and of course IMO--the polar opposite of everything it's claimed to be?

Oh please...

[MH1]

18. Here is what Paul Chavez said about that:

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/01/obamas_si_se_puede.html

“The foundation itself is comfortable with him using the slogan “Si Se Puede” and so is the UFW to a certain extent,” said Paul Chavez, who works with the foundation. “Being that the UFW is very strongly for organized labor and they have a very strong commitment to the Clinton camp there was some conflict internally. The way that it played out was that as long as any individual, whether it’s Hillary, whether it’s Obama, maintains and supports the standards of what the slogan is than we’re comfortable with it because we really feel that it shouldn’t be limited to just one camp. It’s a battle cry, a call to action whether it’s to voting or getting out and participating in the political process.”

So I don't think it's worth getting hung up on which campaign is using it, if the perceived "owners" of that slogan have said they have no problem with it.

Anyway I have a HUGE problem with the notion that a simple expression - "Yes we can!" somehow "belongs" to one organization and no one else can use it as a motivational slogan ever again. If Hillary was so supportive of the farm workers, it should have occurred to her to use the slogan sooner. However, in any case the slogan fits much better with Obama's message of inclusion and participatory government, than with Hillary's behind-closed-doors approach to governing.

All that said, it is nice for Hillary that she is endorsed by the UFW - presumably that means she has a stronger legislative position on their issues - that is what should be touted. The fact that she missed the boat on the first use of an obviously powerful slogan, well I'm sorry it bothers you, but I just don't see what the big deal is.

[LandOLincoln]

19. You "just don't see what the big deal is?"

Neither do I.

So perhaps you could address this issue with your fellow Obama supporters?

Thank you.

[MH1]

20. The person who started that thread is a TROLL - PLEASE alert.

I have alerted at least twice and even started a thread to point it out. It is OBVIOUS and if the mods don't tombstone him soon, I am going to be pretty pissed. Believe me, it does not help convince people to support Obama, with people like that pretending to be supporters.

So, I would appreciate if you would also alert on this troll.

Here is the evidence:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4346457

Notice all the one liners, and the similarity to two other posters on that thread who have been tombstoned - HonestyIsAVirtue and yessir. Now also look at 1corona4u's thread on the "Yes we can" topic and notice ugdude's response and what he is linking to. Clear enough?

[Political Heretic]

13. Yeah... Obama pointed that out, in several speeches.