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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 08:54 AM
Original message
Challenge to all DUers #1
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 09:33 AM by radfringe
without bashing, flaming, mashing, slamming, squashing, demolishing, blowing up, hitting, slugging, slashing, burning, or otherwise drawing comparisons with the opposing candidate tell me why:

1. Clinton would be a good President

----or----

2. Obama would be a good President

----or----

3. _______ would be a good President

and I'm betting we can't get through this thread without bashing, flaming, mashing, slamming, squashing, demolishing, blowing up, hitting, slugging, slashing, burning, or otherwise drawing comparisons with the opposing candidate

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libertee Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Very good suggestion..will try
;-)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. OK
1. Clinton would be a good President...

...because she's pretty much the smartest person in any room she enters, because she has mountains of Executive-branch experience, solid Legislative branch experience, a lifetime of policy-making experience, and won't appoint any batshit-crazy wingnut psychopaths to any of the three looming vacant seats on SCOTUS...especially if we widen our margin in the Senate in November.

2. Obama would be a good President...

...because he is equally as intelligent as Senator Clinton, has the President-Clinton-esqe ability to frame serious, important and complex issues in straightforward (and often rhetorically melodic) terms, and very much seems to have (forgive me) Reagan's gift/talent/knack for hitting all the high notes of political theatricality at the most important moments...he can inspire people when he has his fastball, and inspiration is something this nation desperately needs and can do great things with.

...and before you scream, I despise Reagan...but the man could perform when the chips were down...and political theater/rhetorical thunder is an awesome tool in the hands of masterful performers.

Both need to pick the right people for the right positions, and very much need to immediately start working towards the '10 Senate midterms, because a 61-67 seat majority will cure a lot of headaches.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. thank -you n/t
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. sounds like you're supporting Obama
i know you said you were undecided, but I'm reading betweent the lines here. :)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Dunno
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Were they debating or doing the 5 o'clock news?
???
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. sad - challenge has been up for 15 minutes
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 09:18 AM by radfringe
31 or so views -- and only 2 replies?

I think an experiment is called for
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. no one has anything GOOD to say about their candidate?
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Well, I did
after I had my first cup of coffee.

But it doesn't seem to interest anyone.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. easier to bash and trash I guess.. :)
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Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is my assessment
Here's where I think Clinton excels-

Foreign policy

Fiscal discipline

Healthcare reform

Team building

Experience


I think Obama excels in-

Public speaking

Appeal to young people

Appeal to African Americans

Charisma


It's obvious by my assessment, I think Clinton is the candidate of substance and Obama is the candidate of hope. I like both of our candidates, but I really just don't know much about Obama other than he has been a senator whose record hasn't been overly impressive. Clinton's record is well known. She has a rather extensive resume in politics, but she is a career politican. Obama is too, but has much less experience, which may or not be a good thing.

To me, this election is not about going to war in Iraq, it's about getting out of Iraq. It's about returning to fiscal discipline and reforming the tax code to put more of a burden on the wealthy. It's about getting a grasp on the healthcare industry so people won't be going bankrupt when they get ill. It's about creating jobs that allow Americans to at least buy a home and pay their utilities without having to live on a margin all the time. It's about making education affordable so people don't have to mortgage their future to attend college.

Politicians, by nature, promise us everything, and deliver little. I think Clinton offers us a better chance to get some of these things done. We've seen her passion regarding healthcare and kids. I have seen what the Clintons did for America in the nineties, and I liked what I saw. Obama, for me, would be a gamble. I do think electing him would give America a lift in the eyes of the world, but that doesn't solve our problems here at home, and that, to me, is the primary hurdle we have to overcome.

I am a blue-collar male who took advantage of opportunity, and was able to achieve the American dream. I want todays kids to have the opportunity I had as a youth. Hard work and perseverance should pay off in the end.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. thank-you /nt
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. mmmm... interesting
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
9. kick
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. Obama will be a great president because
he is strongly supportive of the ideal of democracy in making government more transparent, accessible, and responsive to everyday citizens.

Lawrence Lessig wrote a compelling endorsement of Obama and links to Obama's plan for using technology to improve our democracy.

http://lessig.org/blog/2007/11/4barack.html

There is also a good discussion here, with links to other supporting evidence of Obama's excellent position and record in this area:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4314431&mesg_id=4314431

In the areas of foreign policy, I think Obama will do well, because he will listen to experienced advisors, and because he genuinely believes in diplomacy first yet understands the importance of maintaining the military in good working order in case diplomacy fails.

In domestic policy, I know that he understands the racism inherent in many of our laws and how those laws harm society, and I believe he will do as much as possible to reform drug sentencing laws and other laws that cost society so much in $ while doing so much harm in human terms.

Obama will appoint to the Supreme Court, justices who understand the Constitution and will not make a mockery of the federalist principle by selective application. (See: medical marijuana, for example.)

Clinton has the potential also to be a competent President, but...well I'll reserve that for the other thread, or just not bother. :)
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. And let me add Bill McKibben's endorsement
because he explains it better than I can.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/3/9431/41821/720/448788

Excerpt:

Here’s my guess, then, on what Obama’s talk about unity means: not that he’s a patsy who’s going to split the difference with the opposition on every issue. Instead, that he’s going to try and figure out how to run the political rapids differently, so that he avoids the obvious rocks in the water and instead find some new line through the white water. And there’s really one way to do that—try to engage far more Americans in taking part so you dilute the power of the special interests. For instance: if you’ve got to fight for dramatic shifts in order to deal with medical insurance, you do it less by replaying the precise same battles we’ve fought for the last two decades only harder, and more by figuring out a new way in. Why do we pay twice as much for drugs as Europeans? Why do we pay half again as much for medical care without getting any healthier? These are conversations that only experts have had so far, and that kind of elite dialogue will never build the support we need for real change.

The first key is getting Americans to ask about anything. The pervasive feeling of powerlessness, born of understandable cynicism, needs to be somehow overturned. That’s one reason it’s so hopeful to see high turnout by young people in the primaries. But voting alone is insufficient. Obama spent his formative years as a community organizer, which means he knows more than most of us about how to get people feeling as if they matter. Organizing is tough work—having helped organize 2,000 demonstrations about global warming in the last year, I have some sense of just how hard. Because Americans, by long training, have become cynical about their chance of making a difference.

But organizing always works the same way. You start by making people part of the process. It’s almost the exact opposite of the me-generation personality politics so on display by the Clintons in recent weeks: the idea that they and they alone have the experience and the expertise to solve whatever problems are at hand. This is boomer egoism at its most naked, and those of us who are about Obama’s age or younger are suddenly feeling the possibility of something different for the first time in our political lives. And liking it.

No one can know how any of these people will actually govern. But I hope for a change less in tone than in form. A presidency where, great orator though he is, Obama doesn’t depend on the State of the Union talk to rally people, but instead figures out ways to use the technology of our time. Maybe for virtual hearings or informal referenda; maybe to constantly solicit ideas. And I imagine that he’d be a president in nearly constant motion, covering the country not to hold fundraisers or to meet with other pols, but to...organize. Not to say ‘here’s what I’m doing—back me up,’ but to say ‘how are we going to do this?’


The Lessig endorsement I linked above shows that McKibben is onto something here and it isn't all "hope" and "vision" - the nuts and bolts is in the technology plan that Lessig lauds.

There is substance here, folks, and it's good stuff.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
14. kick
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. kicking for crickets
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick
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