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Living with 'Mandated' Universal Health Care is not the bogeyman

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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:17 AM
Original message
Living with 'Mandated' Universal Health Care is not the bogeyman
...that many seem to think it is. I live with it and it does work.

What is so scary about paying into a health care system where the premium tier is based on ability to pay?

Socialized medicine was never 'free' ......it's paid by the citizens of every country on earth who have it.

I cannot believe the demonizing I have seen regarding this issue and requiring every citizen to buy into it.......with much breast beating and gnashing of teeth that your civil liberties will disappear. Hogwash. The UK, Canada, and Europe have had it for years and yes it does have some drawbacks but no one is in the poorhouse because of it and EVERYONE can see a Doctor and get treatment when they need it.

Obama wants a 'voluntary' plan? It would never work. First of all because what incentive is there to participate before they needed to?
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ugdude Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. Mandatory healthcare doesnt work
Im in the health industry. Mandatory healthcare will bleed the middle class dry since Hillary wants to garnish our wages to pay for it.

Unbelievable. She has no idea on how healthcare works.


Obamas plan is smarter because it lowers costs without imposing on civil liberties. HRC supporters should read the constitution.
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intheozone Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. How does Obama's plan lower costs enough so everyone
can afford. I listened in the debate but couldn't hear how he does this. This is a serious question and if you have the answer, I would appreciate your sharing with us here.
Thanks,
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. This is a little more serious than that
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 12:26 PM by neutron
Take a look at a couple of things.

First, the NYT today: He took hundreds of thousands of dollars from Nuclear interests then
worked AGAINST the interest of his contituents.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon....

This was a bill to protect the public by forcing Nuclear Power Plants to report leaks.
The first bill wasn't bad. But he re-wrote it so that it was toothless, and protected only
the industry, not the public.

He bragged in Iowa that he had passed legislation that never went through.

For this alone, this guy is a jerk and a fraud.

Oh, and here is what Paul Krugman thinks about his economy plan:

Responding to Recession
by Paul Krugman

<snip>
Since this is an election year, the debate over how to stimulate the economy is inevitably tied up with politics. And here’s a modest suggestion for political reporters. Instead of trying to divine the candidates’ characters by scrutinizing their tone of voice and facial expressions, why not pay attention to what they say about economic policy?
In fact, recent statements by the candidates and their surrogates about the economy are quite revealing.
<snip>
On the Democratic side, John Edwards, although never the front-runner, has been driving his party’s policy agenda. He’s done it again on economic stimulus: last month, before the economic consensus turned as negative as it now has, he proposed a stimulus package including aid to unemployed workers, aid to cash-strapped state and local governments, public investment in alternative energy, and other measures.
Last week Hillary Clinton offered a broadly similar but somewhat larger proposal. (It also includes aid to families having trouble paying heating bills, which seems like a clever way to put cash in the hands of people likely to spend it.) The Edwards and Clinton proposals both contain provisions for bigger stimulus if the economy worsens.
And you have to say that Mrs. Clinton seems comfortable with and knowledgeable about economic policy. I’m sure the Hillary-haters will find some reason that’s a bad thing, but there’s something to be said for presidents who know what they’re talking about.
The Obama campaign’s initial response to the latest wave of bad economic news was, I’m sorry to say, disreputable: Mr. Obama’s top economic adviser claimed that the long-term tax-cut plan the candidate announced months ago is just what we need to keep the slump from “morphing into a drastic decline in consumer spending.” Hmm: claiming that the candidate is all-seeing, and that a tax cut originally proposed for other reasons is also a recession-fighting measure — doesn’t that sound familiar?
Anyway, on Sunday Mr. Obama came out with a real stimulus plan. As was the case with his health care plan, which fell short of universal coverage, his stimulus proposal is similar to those of the other Democratic candidates, but tilted to the right.
For example, the Obama plan appears to contain none of the alternative energy initiatives that are in both the Edwards and Clinton proposals, and emphasizes across-the-board tax cuts over both aid to the hardest-hit families and help for state and local governments. I know that Mr. Obama’s supporters hate to hear this, but he really is less progressive than his rivals on matters of domestic policy.
In short, the stimulus debate offers a pretty good portrait of the men and woman who would be president. And I haven’t said a word about their hairstyles.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. he very clearly admitted that he would not roll back the tax cuts for
top earners- and if I'm not mistaken, he said that it would effect people in the 250,000 and up catagory- acknowledging that he, himself would be effected, but that that was part of being in a society.

If you look back through the transcript, you should be able to find it. I was pleased with how candid he was- There were other things which also made it more affordable, in the same debate, but I don't remember them well enough to post the specifics.

peace~
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. I don't want to be forced into buying health care coverage. I want to have
the choice to buy it.
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intheozone Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. If you are a wage earner or pay self-employment taxes, you already are
paying for coverage thru payroll deduction. It's the medicare portion of your FICA taxes. Unfortunately, that coverage doesn't become available until you turn 65!
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. The countries you are referring to have tax-financed single-payer. That is completely different
than mandated purchase of private insurance. Such a mandate would be unenforceable.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Being from the UK, you obviously don't understand our nightmare
of a health insurance system. In your system, taxes are assessed in one way or another to pay for your health care. You present a card, get your treatment and go on your merry way. Under the proposed "universal health care" schemes offered by either candidate, the insurance companies are left in the mix. Why does that matter? Because if they were taken out, the profit motive would be removed and the lowered cost of health care would make it possible for every American to get a health access card such as you have and not worry about having to cough up $700+ a month for the privilege of not being excluded from the health insurance system. The plans proposed by both Clinton and Obama are similar to the Massachusetts plan. Before that plan hit day one, the premiums had already doubled and people migrated to adjoining states to avoid being penalized for not being able to afford the plan. We need single payer, universal health care in this country, not a jerry rigged insurance plan. In addition, it would be the Congress that votes for or against any plan, so Clinton and Obama can desire the exact same thing and it might not matter one iota.
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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I'm not from the UK originally
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 12:26 PM by BooScout
I live in the UK but I am an American. Born and bred. And I understand 'your system' very well considering I worked for one of the largest insurers worldwide for 23 years.

Obama's plan is voluntary. Hillary's is not. To work, NO Universal Healthcare can be voluntary.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Once again, their plans are universal health INSURANCE.
Since you've worked in the insurance industry, you must understand the impact of PROFIT. Do you honestly believe people who cannot afford a premium that supports the insurance industry should be penalized? That is, quite literally, taking food from the mouths of babes.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Mandating private health insurance will screw people over
Unless there is a government plan open to everybody and not just people under some arbitrary income line.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. thank you. nt
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. People don't like the idea of a mandated goal of feeding $$$ to insurance companies.
Sure, tax us all fairly and give us single payer care. That's reasonable.

But the hodge podge of what's going to be a giveway to the insurance and drugs companies that will become Clinton's plan sounds a little less palatable when it is "mandated".

Clinton is in bed hot and heavy with a lot of special interests, and won't denounce her pork barrel and lobbyist ties.

She screwed it up once, she will again.
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