Do people think that Healthcare is supposed to be Free?

[jlake]

Come on. Someone has to pick up the tab.
If the government offers Single payer universal healthcare it is *STILL NOT FREE* you have to pay for it through your taxes.
I am not sure why there is a problem with moving towards this model? Everyone of means needs to chip in (the needy will be covered under Hillary's plan)

Obama has forced his supporters to defend some pretty right wing positions.

1. Defend Homophobia as a legitimate point of view.
2. Defend Ronald Reagan
3. Defend the Republican Party as "the party of ideas"
4. Defend Rude, immature behavior at the SOTU.
5. Defend a Slumlord who abused taxpayer money, tenants and possibly funded terrorists.
6. Decry Universal Healthcare

Ruh Roh......

Hill Yes! Hillary can clean up this mess!

[LibraLiz1973]

1. Yes. people are that stupid

Oh my god!! Someone has to PAY for it?? Fuck that, I'm voting against her!

:banghead:

[baldguy]

2. And misrepresenting Obama's views won't get you any converts.

Karl Rove would be proud.

[jlake]

3. What are my mis-representations?

[boston bean]

5. Who is misrepresenting his views, he say hillary will garnish peoples wages

fine them, it's a tactic and some people here defend it.

[stray cat]

4. Hucklebee got health care for children in AR - is he a democrat?

[jlake]

6. No, but apparently he's to the left of Obama.

[Occam Bandage]

10. How so? Obama also ensures health care for all children.

[dsc]

7. Only because of a law passed by a Democrat named Clinton

[John Q. Citizen]

8. All 3 plans are a free ride for insurance companies. They all suck.

[BootinUp]

23. Why, you will choose private over the gov plan

and give them a free ride?

[John Q. Citizen]

24. The gov plan pools the money and buys private insurence. All the money ends up in the hands

of private corporations.

[harun]

25. Yep, they all suck and are made to give private insurers more profits (n/t)

[Occam Bandage]

9. No. Nobody is claiming that healthcare ought to be free, nor that universal healthcare is bad.

I believe that coverage needs to be universal--not because people are uncovered oh noes in Obama's plan, but to ensure that the entire risk pool is paying into the system. However, I don't believe that Hillary's mandates are actually enforceable. Three problems:

1. Detection of noncompliance. Many uncovered are also self-employed, are contractors working for cash under the table, or are small-business employees. I haven't seen a proposed detection mechanism that catches these people *before* they show up at hospitals. Adding it as a line to tax returns, perhaps--but actually verifying the extent and validity of coverage for every return in America would be unfeasible, I think.

2. Retribution of noncompliance. Frankly, there has to be a punitive aspect; otherwise, there's no incentive not to remain uncovered. The problem is that this is going to lead to horror stories in which impoverished people are hit with crippling fines as the breadwinner is taken out of the workforce. It seems that there's no middle ground between "toothless" and "draconian" fines--and, in fact, I'd guess those two categories overlap in reality.

3. Forcible compliance. This is where the Republicans make their stand in Congress. As the great "garnish" flamewar shows, even Democrats are iffy on the idea of the government taking your wages to give to companies. Republicans? Eesh. Plus, this requires additional bureaucracy to keep tabs on each noncompliant worker--and when we get to the self-employed, and those paid in cash, we have similar issues. It's like child-support enforcement, only with far more people to be concerned about, and without a strong public moral pressure to enforce noncompliance.

I think mandates are a looming disaster, and threaten to torpedo the entire plan, half due to actual problems, and half due to perceptual problems.

[DesertFlower]

11. i would rather pay higher taxes

and have everyone covered.

i figure with my premiums, co-pays and deductibles which go up every year, paying a higher tax might just be a "wash".

[jlake]

13. Yep, and Hillary's plan is a step in that direction, while Obama's is not.

[Bluerthanblue]

16. not unless she makes it SINGLE PAYER- othewise this is nothing

more than forcing people to by insurance from CORPORATIONS.

Neither plan is the right plan-

But Obama's doesn't force feed the insurance companies.

Hillary's does.


peace~

[DesertFlower]

21. let's face it folks. the only one

who had it right was kucinich.

[Bluerthanblue]

22. You are absolutely right- but sadly

America isn't ready for his wisdom.

As much as we need it.

peace~

[harun]

26. I agree completely, in the end it would be cheaper (n/t)

[Timmy5835]

12. Think about it

The United States is the ONLY industrialized country without publicly financed universal health care.

[jlake]

14. Yep. I put 2 and 2 together. Obama doesn't want universal healthcare and he thinks the Republicans

are the party of ideas... that must mean he likes the system we have.

[Bluerthanblue]

17. you aren't being honest- or accurate.

:shrug:

truth is becoming very scarce on DU these days.

peace~

[H2O Man]

15. Yes.

Free Huey Newton.

Free groceries.

Free love.

And free health care.

[Bread and Circus]

18. Bullshit, your post is just so full of deception and spin it doesn't

even merit a serious response.

[Bluerthanblue]

19. Hillary's plan only adds to the mess- neither health care plan is

adequate.

Dennis Kuchinich had a plan- John Kerry had a plan- but Obama's and Hillary's plans both lack.

Hillary's plan FORCES people to purchase CORPORATE insurance.

Regardless of whether they would prefer to pay out of their pocket- (I can't imagine being able to afford that, but there are people who can- and do).

Healthcare is MORE important than National Security IMO- We willingly throw money on plans and programs to destroy humans- and bitch and moan about spending money on securing peoples HEALTH. Pretty screwed up- if you ask me.


peace~

Judge the moth by the beauty of the flame it circles-

[Sybbis]

20. Yes, it's supposed to be paid for everyone with taxes...

But that's what sensible countries do, here we'll have to think of something else.

Go Hillary. (But Obama doesn't suck so let's not go there.)

[HeraldSquare212]

27. But if you're going to be forced to buy it, shouldn't you know the cost before you vote?

What does affordable mean to Clinton? How can anyone agree that being forced to buy it is fair if they don't have that information?