Who is really to blame for Bush's Iraq War?

[MethuenProgressive]

[newmajority]

1. Both

Along with every other tool who voted for it.

[MercutioATC]

2. Yes

Both (and all of the other Congresspersons who voted for the IWR)

[gasoline highway]

3. Everyone in Congress who voted for it, GWB and his cronies

It's not as simple as saying it was GWB or Hillary, or taking the blame off either.

[MethuenProgressive]

10. You do know Bush planned a war with Iraq before 9/11, don't you?

[newmajority]

41. I know that PNAC was planning the war in 1998

They sent a letter to Hillary's husband, trying to drag him into it.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Are you going to tell me the "co-president" with "35 years of experience" didn't know about this?

[SOS]

44. They actually succeeded

Operation Desert Fox.
It's odd how this massive bombing of Iraq in 1998-1999 is forgotten today.

[MethuenProgressive]

48. So, according to you, Bill & Hillary Clinton started Bush's War in Iraq in 1998?

With a candlestick, in the parlor?

[nolabels]

54. They helped keep it in mothball so it could be used later by both parties

Bill Clinton could have normalized with Iraq but chose not to for political reasons. The shell of a country known as Iraq had even been dependent on US to protecting its borders from being overrun by Iran(and still is). People are so convinced things have changed when they really haven't. The leopard hasn't changed it's spots and it and everything around it looks quite same and consistent to me.

edit: syntax

[liberalnurse]

12. Eveyone in America is completly responsible .

Yes, that includes you, me and eveyone on DU who only point their finger and cry after the fact.

[gasoline highway]

16. I pointed my finger before the fact and entrusted my senator Hillary clinton to make the right choic

I'm from NY I entrusted Hillary to use proper judgment

[liberalnurse]

25. Like I said;

you didn't do anything to stop the War. Obama didn't do anything either to stop the War. Not one protest march, hunger strike, no media blitz, no letter or request to the President to dispute WMD's, no book deal..Nothing at all, No action employed to stop the war.

[gasoline highway]

26. Obama spoke out against the war...I protested the war in NYC

So don't tell me I didn't do anything...

[MethuenProgressive]

36. Yeah. One talk at a local rally.

Big. Whoop.

[SOS]

42. On February 15, 2003

There were half a million in the streets of NYC protesting the coming fiasco.

Where was Clinton? Where was Schumer? Where was Edwards? Where was Richardson? Where was Dodd? Where was Biden? Where was Bloomberg?

One talk at a local rally would of meant everything to those of us standing in the cold.

Big. Whoop. Indeed.

[maddiejoan]

43. Where --BTW

He never denounced the IWR.

[MethuenProgressive]

45. Obama's speech was in Chicago, where he said Saddam had WMDs.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech

Now let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.

He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

[maddiejoan]

49. Exactly

and it's also virtually the same as Hillary's October 10, 2002 speech before the IWR vote.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4350789&mesg_id=4350789

Obama's speech on October 26th never mentions the IWR vote at all --and cannot logically be used to say he would have voted "No" on it.

Even Obama has stated he doesn't know what he would have done had he been in the Senate.

[SOS]

51. Virtually the same?

Can you direct us to a Clinton speech, "virtually the same" as this?:

"I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda."

[maddiejoan]

53. yeah I can

I even linked to it --in comparitive form.

[SOS]

57. "Virtually the same"

" Saddam Hussein poses (a real threat) to his people, to the region, including Israel, to the United States, to the world."
-Clinton

"Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States"
-Obama

Yeah, it's hard to even tell the difference.

[maddiejoan]

59. That all you got?

Because Obama kind of has it both ways in HIS speech.

[SOS]

61. The entire premise of this catastrophic war

was that Iraq posed a threat to the security of the United States.

That was false.

Obama recognized that, Clinton didn't.

So yes, that's all I got, cause that's all there is.

[maddiejoan]

62. So tell me

where in Obama's speech does he call out that voting for IWR is wrong?

[SOS]

52. The quote doesn't end there

Here are the very next sentences which you forgot to include:

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama/'s_Iraq_Speech

[indepat]

14. Every freakin' enabler each step along the way

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. Who is responsible for the Iraq invasion? The US citizens and politicians who allowed him to do it.

And who continue to allow him to do it.

[Blue-Jay]

5. Bush and his PNAC buddies are ultimately responsible.

Certainly though, a portion of the blame resides in the laps of each congress member who voted "Yeehaw" on IWR.

[Nimrod2005]

6. People in Congress who voted for it....Easy.

[MethuenProgressive]

19. "...use these powers wisely AND as a LAST RESORT." Blaming Clinton for Bush's War is lazy logic.

Obama, of course, would've voted Present if he could.

[Nimrod2005]

22. Congress shall declare war!!! She is an enabler...nt

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

28. Bush said he went in as a last resort - stating that there even is a "resort" is war approval

Here's a copy of Bush's letter to Congress stating that he had exhausted all diplomatic remedies under the IWR. Whether he truly did not not, the IWR gave him that discretion to decide when that "last resort" had been reached. That blank check should never have been written.


March 18, 2003

Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:)

Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic and other peaceful means alone will neither (A) adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq nor (B) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

Sincerely,

GEORGE W. BUSH

[SOS]

33. "...use these powers wisely AND as a LAST RESORT."

Said Mom to her drunken 18 year-old son as she handed him the car keys.

[TheDonkey]

7. #1 Bush #2 Media #3 Congress #4 Ignorant Sheep like Americans

[Radical Activist]

15. Right. Don't forget the media.

I have a hard time blaming the average person. If the media had ever presented the public with all the facts I think a majority of Americans would have come to a different conclusion. The war fever is hard to fight though.

[1corona4u]

8. Oh, give me a break....

what about the other 76 senators who voted for it.....

[William769]

9. Stupid is as Stupid does.

Your poll proves that MethuenProgressive.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. you should be ashamed of yourself

[MethuenProgressive]

21. For pointing out the Obamas main selling point is completely false?

No. The Shames is not with me.

[gravity]

35. Obama isn't blaming Hillary for the war

You are setting up a straw man. He is just pointing out the her mentality towards Iraq is part of the problem in the first place, to contrast his "fresh" approach to the problem.

Supporters on both sides are just twisting the issue to support their own agenda.

[gravity]

13. We wouldn't have been in Iraq if it wasn't for Bush

I am an Obama supporter but it is absurd to put the blame on Clinton.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

17. George Bush - but the enablers made it easier

I really think the IWR was all about Bush's re-election. He could have made a quick strike on Iraq within the 60 days allowed under the War Powers Act. But he would have had serious problems in his re-election campaign if he was perceived to have acted without any support in the Congress. I think he needed that approval and support (which is all the IWR did, express support for the President - in its own words) for his re-election.

[patrice]

18. All of "us". With key functions falling to those who were in a position to either

take them or not and some super-key functions going to Cheney, PNAC et al

[ErnestoG]

20. Bush is. And Hillary helped him. Obama didn't.

That is all.

Over...

[MethuenProgressive]

23. Once Obama actually was in a position to vote, he voted Yes! on every Iraq War vote.

Except the one he hid in the cloakroom on.

[SOS]

27. Voting

to authorize Bush to use military force against Iraq is not the same as voting to supply equipment to US troops already in combat.
Can you name one instance in US history where Congress defunded the military while they were engaged in combat?

[MethuenProgressive]

39. How did Obama's bill demanding an end to the Iraq War work out? Did he vote present?

[ErnestoG]

30. Deceptive. He voted to fund keeping the soldiers eating, not the war in principle.

You guys keep trying that bullshit slant, I'll keep smacking it down.

[MethuenProgressive]

38. Did he introduce a bill to end the war in Iraq on principle? Vote for withdrawl? Ever?

His "anti-war" record is a fairy tale.

[SOS]

63. You mean this one?

Obama Bill Sets Date For Troop Withdrawal
Candidate Goes Further Than Rivals

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/30/AR2007013001586.html

[MethuenProgressive]

67. So, that bill passed, and the troops are almost all home?

[emilyg]

34. Exactly.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

50. EXACTLY!

[Middle finga]

24. I blame Bush and Congress equally. I think it was conventional thinking

Every member in congress was well aware of the PNAC plan, surely Ms. Clinton was aware of it and they were aware that Bush had surrounded himself with the PNAC losers. So you didn't need to be a psychic to figure out what was about to go down with the IWR.

[butterfly77]

29. Obama

[ClassWarrior]

31. He** wouldn't have had his BCII without her.

NGU.

[HughMoran]

32. OMG!!

This poll shows something really dark here - I'm sickened to the core :puke:

[ErnestoG]

37. Get used to it, Hillars. The IWR is around your candidate's neck FOR GOOD.

And it will sink her in the GE if she gets that far.

[MethuenProgressive]

40. Nice pic of a mass murderer as your avatar. No wonder you hate Clinton.

[Occam Bandage]

46. Can't I pick both? As well as every other idiot who voted to invade?

[IndianaGreen]

47. Bad poll! There are lots of bipartisan fingerprints on this war and on Kyl-Lieberman

which opened the door to the next war.

[MethuenProgressive]

56. Please don't annoy the DU meme "Hillary Started the Iarq War!" with your facts.

It really disturbs them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Without that vote in Congress, do you really believe he could have gone to war

for FIVE YEARS??

[MethuenProgressive]

58. Without her vote? Yeah, I do. Only the haters try to blame the Iraq War on Hillary.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Not just her vote, all the votes

Do you think he would have gone to war if Congress had voted no?

[MethuenProgressive]

60. Bush 73%, Clinton 37%. DU's not as dumb as the ObamaBots Hope.

:applause:

[chieftain]

66. Your rhetoric is as flawed as your math . Next time you want

to knock down a straw man bring a calculator.

[LordJFT]

65. Bush first, then everyone who voted for it

[workinclasszero]

68. Yup...BOTH!

Ummm...no category for both so...

King George couldn't have started his war of aggression without the help of Senator Hillary Clinton, for one.

And now she refuses to set a timetable of withdrawal....

Hmm....

Wonder why????

[MethuenProgressive]

69. Cherry?

.

[Didereaux]

70. Dick Cheney and the NEO-CONS you dumb asses have you no memory at all?