"apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it," Clinton's words.

[MethuenProgressive]

Odd that all the hair-on-fire hand waving hysterics by SwiftSpammers for Obama leave that part out of their "outraged" posts.

[busymom]

1. why bother with the truth

when it is so much more fun to toss about BS.

[rodeodance]

30. i want a face to face with some of these snarky obamacrybabies.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. How is it possible to be both snarky and a crybaby?

Those two things would seem to be contradictory. :shrug:

[rodeodance]

36. snarky is annoying, snappish, --ect ect. No contradiction whatsoever to me.

[Alexander]

2. I don't want Hillary deciding whether or not I can "afford" health coverage.

[busymom]

4. Then please agree not to use our hospitals or clinics

if you aren't able to pay in full upfront. If you don't contribute to the healthcare pool, you can not be entitled to any care or to opt in because you suddenly find yourself in need.

[annie1]

31. then be sure to come up with the thousands if anything ever happens to you....

b/c i don't feel like paying for you. thanks.

[rodeodance]

38. silly silly--Congress will be in on this --Of course you knew that didn't you!!

[Oregone]

3. Universal Health Insurance via Mandate is a terrible idea...

Universal Health Insurance, period, is somewhat lame. But with that said, Id love to see Universal Health Care implemented.

[busymom]

5. Not making it a mandate is not universal health insurance

If everyone isn't insured, it is NOT universal health insurance. The risk is not spread out across the population, people aren't covered who then may end up having an emergency and needing it...and they will still have to use the hospitals.

Every country with universal coverage has MANDATORY coverage and it is paid for by taxes and/or monthly premiums that are mandated by the govt.

[Oregone]

8. What you are not getting is this....

Universal Health Insurance, mandated or not (its all sematics), is useless in practice because it doesn't universally guarentee everyone the right to Health Care. Private Insurance companies do not equate coverage to care, and are motivated, via profit, to deny claims by default.

[nancyharris]

11. This is true but

Medicare is driven by costs and they deny claims for services just as private insurance companies do.

[Oregone]

17. So you throw out the baby with the bathwater?

If there is a problem with a single single payer system like Medicare, at least you have a single institution to deal with and reform. How can a fault with a fixable issue (fixable being that its public) overrule the massive faults amongst all the private insurers we can do little about?

[nancyharris]

19. There are more faults than just denying claims

Medicare cost much more per person than private insurance and Medicare does not invest any money in new equipment or hospital/HMO/clinics or buildings.

[Oregone]

23. Multi-Tiered systems underfund, undermine, and underpower the public system

We definately do not even have a context in this country to be drawing conclusions from (regarding the efficiency of single payer systems). That is why we can only look elsewhere to be honest.

Medicare costs more per person? Does it cover people more statistically at risk to have medical problems and incur costs? Maybe, eh? And it it covered everyone, don't you think that would change dramatically?

[Schema Thing]

6. such a freakishly small group of people that it isn't worth mentioning...unless

your idea of "afford" is something many people would not consider "affordable".

[adapa]

16. In the SCHIP program the income qualifications are very reasonable

[Solon]

7. Wait, what?

As far as I can tell, both Hillary's and Obama's Health Care plans are going to leave holes in coverage, because, let's be honest, they both suck ass. Now we are having flamewars about this shit?

[tammywammy]

9. Yes, apparently so

:eyes:

[Solon]

21. The silly thing is that neither plan is going to pass Congress intact...

regardless of how big a Democratic majority we get. They are already complicated enough, but imagine them with a dozen or more amendments and riders attached to them. Its going to be a fucking mess and nightmare.

[tammywammy]

24. Agreed

But some are very focused in one candidate vs the other that they don't realize that neither plan is perfect. Oh well.

[Solon]

26. Not Perfect, hell, they look like disasters in the making...

Gods, looking at the financing for either one would give anyone a headache. I'm still puzzled as to how they would "reduce costs", hell, it looks like they will end up costing us, in both premiums and taxes, more money than a single payer system or our current system.

[loveangelc]

10. It's still stupid. I do not want to be forced to do anything.

[MethuenProgressive]

12. Stop paying your taxes. See how that works out for you.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nancyharris]

14. Be sure to say that to the Paramedics

as you are rushed to a hospital (without insurance).

[rodeodance]

40. Of course not--You would rather be Irresponsible and have others cover

your costs if bad accident/ cancer .

[adapa]

13. They'd rather spend their money on ipods & wine then health insurance

[DUyellow]

18. i do not own an ipod or drink wine, what are you talking about?

[adapa]

28. I"m thinking of all the people who can aford heathcare but think they don't need it so go uninsured

then break a leg or head or get cancer-

[rodeodance]

35. sure seems to be a lot of them on this board today. It has surprized me.

[DUyellow]

49. I do not like hand outs.

[adapa]

50. No scarcasum here- what if the healthcare people didn't take care of the uninsured sick?

I mean seriously, Go with Obama's plan even tho he doesn't say how he'd cut heath insurance cost. Let those who chose not to buy into a health insurance not get heath care unless they pay up front. Let 'um rot.
Cover the kids & old people of course

[Whisp]

20. and she is the one who decides whether it's a refusal or

whether you have other financial obligations that your pay stubb just may not describe?

who will decide? who will check out backgrounds - will there be forms to fill to opt out because your financial burden is already up to the max and you are Unable to contibute, even tho Hillary says your income says you can?

what a bunch of malarkey.

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. They're in a trance...

don't interrupt with facts.:crazy:

[rodeodance]

25. Most of the subject line were flaim bait by Obamababies.

[MethuenProgressive]

27. It's tradition.

A news story comes out, they get their emails, and they start posting.

[ErnestoG]

29. garNISH.. garNISH.. garNISH... the crowd goes wild!

gag

[annie1]

32. I guess reality doesn't really thrill people. It's good obama fans don't live in it.

[rodeodance]

33. LINK FOR OP:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp

[MethuenProgressive]

37. from that link:

Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. Under her plan, she said, health care "will be affordable for everyone" because she would limit premium payments "to a low percent of your income."

[Radical Activist]

39. "I'm not against anybody," Clinton said.

Grow a fucking spine already. This is what people are sick of and what won't work in November.

[rodeodance]

41. and Throwing out isolated quotes with nasties in the text is typical of obamababies.

[Radical Activist]

43. Sorry. Heaven knows we never see that from Clinton supporters. Ever.

hah :)

[rodeodance]

47. hail to the one-liners!!

[MethuenProgressive]

42. How much spine did Che show when executing all those Cubans?

Did he give them a gun, so at least they could back at his firing squads?

[Radical Activist]

44. Well, I can see now why Hillary is a good candidate because Che executed some people.

That's the kind of perfect logic I expect from right wing talk radio. Just like the people who think talking about Al Gore's house is a good response to global warming debates. You have a real hang up about that don't you?

[MethuenProgressive]

45. You hate Hillary because Bill opposed Castro.

Get over it. Che got what he deserved.

[Radical Activist]

46. lol It just an avatar.

You're a lot more worked up about it than I am. This is at least the third time you've made a random attack on Che that had nothing to do with the conversation. Is it some kind of game you're playing or something?

You're living up to your reputation. Its amazing how many times I read a comment and think "that's really unnecessarily nasty" and then see your name next to it.

[Maribelle]

48. I believe Che would have loved Hillary, and would have been extremely proud of her

as his heart reached out for the sick and the poor in South America in the early 1950s.

It was this huge frustration over how South America was treating her sick and poor that led to his revolutionary spirit, and the fight for an United America.

But then he turned into a killer. Sad, really.

[Jed Dilligan]

51. And who decides what people can "afford"

to cough up? On what criteria? A Congress full of GOPigs and "moderate" Democrats is the only answer I've heard.

[adapa]

52. I found this to be usefull information, Please read the link

"It is simply false that Senator Clinton's plan would "force everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it." In fact, Senator Clinton's plan not only includes nearly twice the resources for health care tax credits as the Obama campaign but would cap premiums at a low share of a family's income, to ensure that everyone could afford to be in the system. And according to the Commonwealth Fund, the best way to maximize cost reductions in health care is to make it truly universal, with an individual requirement as part of the shared responsibility needed to make the whole system work."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irwin-redlener-md/obama-hires-harry-and-lo_b_84716.html

to answer your question, I don't know who or what commity would be set the formula for the premiums but I can say the NH SCHIP program is fair. Depending on income, your premium/month are per kid, $0, 25, $45 or $125(I think you need to be making over $50Kfor the $125 rate). I'm real sketchy on the income details.

[Jed Dilligan]

53. So you don't pay if you don't have kids?

[adapa]

56. correct, there is no income tax in NH

[Sanctified]

54. How do you define "afford"?

Aren't income taxes only applied to people who can afford it? If that is the case many of us cannot afford the extra burden of being forced to give insurance companies a blank check.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

55. sounds liKE THAT'S FAIR

[MethuenProgressive]

57. "apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it," Clinton's words.

Better than just Hoping things will Change.