Hillary's Garnish Talk: Has She Finally Cooked Her Own Goose?

[ErnestoG]

Hang around US politics long enough, and you swear you see everything. Right here on this very forum as of late, I have seen Hillary Clinton's supporters, now driven into a losing momentum frenzy by the closeness of the race, devolve to spewing hate at MoveOn.org, DailyKos, Ted Kennedy, Oprah, and hundreds of others who had the audacity to support her opponent. I've even seen racist commentary when Stevie Wonder stepped up as an Obama fan. But, you rarely see a candidate put their foot in their mouth so theatrically, and right before a Super Tuesday, like Senator Clinton has in regards of her intention to garnish peoples' wages if they don't buy into her health plan.

Now to be fair, this wasn't just her idea. John Edwards had a similar plan. But Mr. Edwards is no longer running, and I highly doubt he would have stepped into the hornets' nest that Senator Clinton now has with this issue that has put the skids on her campaign, and possibly cooked her goose in the election.

Kevin Drum of WASHINGTON MONTHLY has a few comments about this, which bear thinking about: Not the least of which was the specter of the IRS getting involved in health care enforcement -

"First, do we really want the IRS enforcing healthcare mandates? That's not what the IRS is for, and Americans are (rightly) suspicious of using the IRS as a quasi-police agency to enforce whatever federal law the current administration feels like using it for. This is probably not a constructive road to go down.

Second, a Rube Goldberg enforcement program like does nothing except highlight the absurdity of individual mandate healthcare plans in the first place. If you're really this serious about getting every man, woman, and child in the country enrolled, why go through all this? Why not just do it like Medicare, where the funding mechanism is the existing tax system and everyone is enrolled automatically? It amounts to the same thing and it's cheaper, easier, and less intrusive.

Third, this is a political loser. Do we really want to treat people who don't sign up for healthcare like deadbeat dads and Chapter 11 refugees by garnishing their wages? Unless I'm way off base, this is just not going to go over well. Republicans will have a field day with it.

Sometimes you can offer too much detail in a campaign, and this is one of those times. No healthcare plan will survive the election in anything close to its campaign form, so why bother offering up a detailed enforcement mechanism that's never going to see the light of day anyway? Politically it's an albatross and substantively it's meaningless. It's just a mistake all around."

source

Yep, now I think I've seen it all. As if her IWR vote is not bad enough, she just plunked boulders into her knapsack while preparing to run uphill to the White House.

Senator Clinton, I think you just garnished your cooked goose.

[msongs]

1. support somebody else = hate. Che just murdered his opponents nt

[ErnestoG]

2. How about addressing the thread, instead of Che?

[ErnestoG]

3. (Che was a doctor, by the way)

[neutron]

22. Obama just RADIATES . . . literally

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?em&ex=1202101200&en=f2853a7f59384438&ei=5087%0A

[ErnestoG]

25. Clearly. He has been drawing record crowds

[stevietheman]

4. Answer: Yes.

Hope and change require audacity, and Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton just does not sound like change, does it?

Say NO to garnishing wages to send to private insurance companies.

Vote Barack Obama!

[ErnestoG]

5. Aye.

[creeksneakers2]

11. Nobody is going to garnish wages to send to private insurance

companies. There is a government alternative.

By the way, when cornered on the details, Obama's people admit they'd have mandates too.

[ErnestoG]

12. Wrong. Obama never said he'd garnish your wages.

But Clinton did. To her undoing.

[creeksneakers2]

15. Obama's people admitted they'd have a mandate

And Obama got on Hillary's back in the debates many times because she wouldn't specify how she'd enforce her mandates. How is Obama going to enforce them?

[fenriswolf]

18. good then you can link right?

[creeksneakers2]

26. Link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4367966


There are a couple of concerns about that approach. One is
the problem of "adverse selection." Sicker people - or people with a greater likelihood of becoming sick - will enroll. That will drive plan costs up, making it prohibitively expensive.

"Let's look at the level of coverage you can get without a mandate. Our estimates, based on studies in the literature, is that we can get 98% or 99% coverage without a mandate for adults. There may be some small pockets of people who choose not to buy it."

What about those people?

"If there are free riders, Obama is open to mandates.But what he is saying is 'Look, mandates seem like a panacea, but that's not where the hard work needs to be done.' Auto insurance is a mandate, too, and not everyone has that. You've got to prove to the public that you're willing to do the hard work.'"

[ErnestoG]

19. Where did Obama say he would sic the IRS on those who didnt pay?

oooh thats right, he didn't. But your candidate suuuuure said she'd be for garnishing peoples wages. Do you have any idea how that will go over with Americans in the initial shudders of a recession?

Good luck with that!

[creeksneakers2]

28. How is Obama going to enforce his mandates?

He demanded Hillary answer the same question dozens of times.

[ErnestoG]

34. Hillary did answer it. She said she'd twist the arm of the worker through garnishments

[Abacus]

6. Exactly!

" If you're really this serious about getting every man, woman, and child in the country enrolled, why go through all this? Why not just do it like Medicare, where the funding mechanism is the existing tax system and everyone is enrolled automatically? It amounts to the same thing and it's cheaper, easier, and less intrusive."

I don't understand the point either.

[ErnestoG]

7. Thanks for posting the graph again

This needs to be a constant grpahic reminder to them

[ErnestoG]

8. By the way this is not an attack on Edwards supporters. I like him still.

and hope he becomes VP or AG.

[Stephanie]

9. Nanny Clinton

She's just reinforced everything people detest about her. There's no way she'll win a general, even against Walnuts McCain. She just has a way of alienating people with statements like this. She's lost the left on the war and now the middle on health care. Soon she'll be left with nothing but her base, women of a certain age.

[ErnestoG]

10. Yeah thats about her reach. Which is going to be poison in the GE.

Obama can forge alliances across many spectrums. THAT is our strength.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. This woman of a certain age isn't a part of her base

nor are my women friends of a certain age. We're for Kucinich.

[Darth_Kitten]

27. Rather a Nanny than an Empty Suit with his cue cards..........

Pardon me, people DETEST her? Gee, maybe get an opinion from people who haven't passed out drunk at a frat party within the last 5 years......

I feel rather sorry for the little idealistic kiddies......

Women of a certain age? LOL Time to grow up, kid.

[creeksneakers2]

13. Cooked her own goose?

If there is one thing I've read a million times on DU its the theory that progressive ideas would sell to the electorate if politicians only had the guts to fight for them and explain them. In fact, whenever an insider politician decides he can't get elected running on a progressive idea, that politician is called a corporatist and a thief and everything else in the book.

Now when Hillary takes a stand to run on progressive ideas she's politically foolish?

[ErnestoG]

14. It's progressive to use the IRS as a collection agency for her flawed plan?

Wow, Progressivism has REALLY changed since I started with it!

[jasmine621]

16. It really wasn't her talk. I saw the interview. The interviewer pushed the question until

he got her to say garnishment was one of the methods. She also said there were many ways to enforce the rules of her plan but the universal coverage was democrat must.

[ErnestoG]

17. ...she answered it?

Good on the interviewer. They should push the truth out of people.

[creeksneakers2]

30. Yeah. Progressives use the IRS all the time

How else would they pay for the programs they want?

[ErnestoG]

33. Progressives aren't for IRS excesses in collection, last I heard.

[annie1]

20. People don't want real change. She should bullshit her way through everything like Barack.

[ErnestoG]

21. Thank you for posting no facts or substance.

[Jed Dilligan]

24. How is taking more of our money and giving it to corporations

change, exactly?

[NYCGirl]

29. Yes, but it's delicious and so beautifully garnished!

:evilgrin:

[ErnestoG]

31. HA! Better than eating crow, I guess...

which is what her supporters are going to be dining on should our man win this thing.

[Yael]

32. And this is why we will never see true UHC. The IRS? Might as well

tell people their health care is going to be run by the DMV.

[ErnestoG]

35. Pretty much my take on it. I have wrangled with the IRS myself.