Don't people get it? We need to END republicanism, not partner with them

[bigtree]

Democratic principles need to dominate the political arena, not sidle up beside republicans looking for some reciprocal grope. Republicanism is not just an opposition party, it is a dangerous and destructive philosophy. Put into practice, it is naked corporatism, unquenchable militarism, unashamed discrimination, and anti-democratic tyranny. This republican class who is in power right now is the worst in my lifetime, since Reagan. I'm pledged to their DEFEAT, and to the defeat of every instigation of their corrupt agenda. I'll give no quarter to their supporters and boosters, either. Go Democrats.

[TwilightGardener]

1. You think we're going to end Republicanism? I'd be happy just

to get them out of the White House for a while.

[bigtree]

Our lives, and the life of the planet, may depend on it.

[Armstead]

2. Tell that to the Clintons

[mtnsnake]

7. The Clintons aren't the ones campaigning on the premise of "reaching out to Republicans"

Obama is, though.

[Armstead]

11. No they just spent eight years doing it in fact

[blm]

14. Era of Big Government is Over, WAS Clinton ACCEPTING Reagan's governing philosophy

in the most public way it is possible for a Democratic president to make that declaration.

But you are welcome to continue pretending it never happened. Someone has to reside on the gullible wing of the Democratic party that enables the fascist agenda. It may as well be you.

[mtnsnake]

19. Bill was 1 of the greatest Dem presidents but your just jealous Kerry coudn't cut it

Bill Clinton = top 5 best Democratic president, maybe top 3. You should learn to appreciate how lucky you are to have experienced such a great 8 years.

Just tellin it like it is :smoke:

[blm]

21. You're jealous Kerry uncovered more govt, corruption of BushInc than any other lawmaker

in DC while YOUR guy PROTECTED BushInc's government corruption more than any other Dem lawmaker in DC and HISTORY will eventually CATCH UP to those facts.

Shit, Bill Clinton protected BushInc even more than Lee Hamilton.



http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

And all we got for it was a turnover of Congress while BushInc spent the 90s growing stronger and planning their return to the WH in 2000 thanks to Bill's constant protection.

And we got 9-11, and this Iraq war, and soon to be war with Iran.

That's all.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

23. It wasn't Clinton who SAID RAYGUN was a great president it WAS OBAMA!!!

[Armstead]

36. Obama was right....and he didn't say "great" president

Obama made a very cogent point. Ronald REagan had a vision for the country and he successfully pushed (transformed) the country according to his vision.

You don;t like Reagan's vision. I don't like Reagan's vision, Obama doesn't like it. But to deny that Reagan succeeded in moving the country to the right is denying reality.

And frankly, when you look at the nuts and bolts, Clinton was closer to Reagan's agenda of shrinking the role of government and placing us at the mercy of "free markets" then many Democrats care to admit.

[blm]

40. It was Clinton ACCEPTING That Reagan was right. Reagan TRANSFORMED Clinton

into accepting his philosophy and Obama only made the ACADEMIC OBSERVATION that Reagan was transformational as a figure because even Democratic president who FOLLOWED Reagan ACCEPTED that transformation PUBLICLY in his SOTU address.

Surely you must have watched it when it happened, eh?

[Nitrogenica]

3. Great post.

[calimary]

33. Agreed!

That's the one thing that made me uncomfortable about John Edwards - wanting to include republi-CONS in his administration.

NO!

NO!

NO!

NO!

NO!

They've HAD their chance. And LOOK WHERE WE ARE!!!

Isn't it time we showed them to the back of the room, and told them to sit down and shut-the-hell up? I don't want them involved in ANY way except to sit there and behave themselves and say "yes, sir" or "yes, ma'am." When ANY of them has had a crack at power, it's been bad news for the rest of us. They are ANATHEMA. And we have heard MORE than enough from them. We should be attempting to dismantle, overturn, or nullify EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING they managed to set up. Because by their very nature, they're sworn to uphold the rights and interests of a very select few of elites at the top of the corporate ziggurat. Their ideas are just simply WRONG, and generally speaking bad for most everyone else in this country. The last seven-and-some years should be proof enough of that.

[mwb970]

4. Is it possible to cooperate with individual Republicans

while rejecting the party as a whole? I think it may be hopeless, as you say.

The Republican Party needs to be marginalized. Not silenced, mind you. They should have the status of the American Nazi Party, say, or the American Communist Party. They're there, but nobody really cares and they don't influence policy.

[featherman]

5. More precisely we need to end THAT kind of Republicanism

and marginalize it. The best we can reasonably hope for is a 60-40 working majority in Congress and in approval ratings... then we can get something done
That's just political realism

[blm]

6. Reagan's governing philosophy was ACCEPTED PUBLICLY - Era of Big Government is Over

was a Democratic president PUBLICLY ACCEPTING Reagan's governing philosophy in front of every American citizen watching his State of the Union speech.


We wouldn't BE in such danger if the many criminal operations of the Reagan and Bush administrations hadn't been deep-sixed by a Democratic president throughout the 90s.

How do you THINK BushInc could grow stronger throughout the 90s when they should've been in jail by the end of 1994, not planning their return in 2000.


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

Wake up Democrats and smell the fascist game and ALL its players.

[bigtree]

20. I tend to believe those who give Hillary more credit for recognizing the line than Bill

such as Bernstein's account:

Carl Bernstein: Hillary Clinton and NAFTA

Bernstein: "Hillary Clinton’s economics, the ones she preached to her husband in the White House are much closer to John Edwards then you would think. She argued with Bill Clinton when she was First Lady, her husband, she said ‘Bill, you are doing Republican economics when you are doing NAFTA.’ She was against NAFTA. And if she would somehow come out and tell the real story of what she fought for in the White House and failed in a big argument with her husband she would end up moving much closer to those Edwards followers."

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/31/carl-bernstein-says-hillary-clinton-fought-against-nafta-when-bill-implemented-it

[newmajority]

8. The best way to end Republicanism is to expel them from OUR party.

[salinen]

9. Republicanism

is legalized theft, lies, and murder.

[bigtree]

26. they're killing us, robbing us blind

killing the planet

[Jed Dilligan]

10. The only way to end Republican rule

is to bring Republicans to our side.

[Bluerthanblue]

12. well, to quote a famous "Republican"-

"Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"-

A.Lincoln

peace~

[Flabbergasted]

13. By and large people at DU do get it. Our two favored candidates for most of the year were ED and K.

[robinlynne]

15. Well the one chance we had was Edwards. convince him to return to the fray. pls.

[pleah]

16. My philosophy is, if you lay down with dogs, you get fleas! If anyone

thinks they are going to make these thugs see the light, they ARE living in a dream. They have learned nothing from the past 7 years.

[mathewsleep]

17. are you suggesting a holocaust?

i don't know about that. i have some republican friends.

[bigtree]

24. their party needs to be reduced to nothing more than an anachronism

[Bonobo]

18. Don't you get it? We need to draw from them to defeat them.

We need to get back some of the "Reagan Dems" and Clinton sure as hell isn't getting them.

[bigtree]

22. give me a good example of a credible republican originated proposal

that we should meet them halfway on. I'm not sure there isn't one, but I'd be interested to hear of it.

[Bonobo]

25. I NEVER said meet them halfway. If that is the only way you can see gaining voters, I am sorry.

There are mnay, many "Republicans" who vote against their self-interests economically.

Get them back. Get back the south we lost.

None would require adopting Republican policies, but rather convincing them that they are Democratic values.

Wake up. Hillary's would be a divided presidency with a divided nation. 50/50. More of the same.

[bigtree]

27. that appeal is still going to have to involve an outright rejection of republicanism

if it's going to amount to anything with any lasting integrity.

[Bonobo]

29. Not so, not so.

Give more wages to blue-collar workers, supporting unions is a democratic value and one that will appeal to the Johnny Lunchbucket Republicans just as one example. There are many.

[bigtree]

32. great, but before these lunkheads get in the door, they need to check their hedonism at the curb

[OHdem10]

28. The Limo Liberals are always an hour late or a dollar short.

The GOP have their thinkers working to the bone coming up with
changes and reforms and Obama is out there bending over backwards

[Omega3]

30. bottom line is W has run this country like he was elected with a 98% majority

we need to spend time taking this country back to the left just to mittigate the horrible effects of his Reich. Now is not the tmie to talk cute and fuzzy.

[Cha]

31. Ya got your knickers all in twit over

nothing when hilary's pushin' her lies and is the biggest dlc(read dino) in sheep's clothing out there.

[Colobo]

34. End Republicanism? LOL!

[bigtree]

35. I know you'll do your part

[Indenturedebtor]

39. You're playing by their rules

They will always win the Hate-War because they aren't bound by truth or ethics.

The people out there are sick of the oldschool politics. They want their leaders to stop fighting and work together to fix our problems.

I want to see the Pukes out of government as well as you do... but we can't win the hate war. We need a leader who inspires to make people embrace the better way. And we most of all need someone who isn't in bed with the corporations. Sleeping with them is what has brought us to where we are:

Iraq
Environmental Deregulation
Healthcare
Workers Rights
Union Busting
Free Trade
Education
ETC>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It's not the pukes, it's the corporations that control them that are the problem. And among people that the corporations control you can count the DLC. HRC has said that she is in bed with Lobbyists.. that she welcomes them into her administration. I'll trust a puke over a walmart lobbyist any day. Wouldn't you?

[bigtree]

41. one point, I'm not playing anything

I'm just one man with an opinion. I seriously doubt either of the present candidates would take my attitude and form their campaign around it. But I have heard Hillary Clinton unload on republicans enough to look forward to more of the same.

[femrap]

37. I got it...we need someone who is

willing to FIGHT!

[bigtree]

38. "We need a president willing to engage in a fistfight

to safeguard and restore our national virtues."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4347557

[rucky]

42. This is step one:

Until we bring-in their base, who's been voting against their best interest all these years. Obama has their ear. It's the first step, and our best shot, at accomplishing what you want to do.

Show me what Democratic principles he's compromising. He's not. It's the rhetoric you're responding to.

Democratic principles involve peacefully engaging with the enemy, helping all Americans regardless of ideology, and restoring community. It's about leading by example - not destroying your opposition.

[bigtree]

43. This opposition is just a front for their corporate masters

They are putting our nation at risk and threatening the health of the earth itself. This shouldn't be just a battle to just sit a couple of rungs above them. They need to be disenfranchised from successfully promoting and furthering their agenda.

"Peaceful engagement" will be regarded by these thugs as acceptance and acquiescence. They need to be taken down, and their supporters need to understand we're not willing to subject the nation, any more, to the consequences of the republican party's elaborate con job masquerading as policy.

[rucky]

48. I think we're talking about two different things.

Obama's talking about bringing-over their voters - which is what gives the power structure its legitimacy.

He's nowhere close to suggesting we make nice with the power-brokers.

This is another Hillary/Obama distinction where the truth is that they have the same end in-mind - just different means.

[Cosmocat]

45. I agree ...

My personal rage against the right wing has probabaly taken years off of the back end of my life ...

I have the same level of hatred for them that a lot of the folks in this thread do ...

But, you can't "kill" them ... They won't go away, they will just lurk and continue to probe and find ways to generate outrage and division ... You just can't beat a cheat, a bully or whatever at their game ...

Obama's process work to mitigate their BS ...

[bigtree]

47. . . . only if he's just giving lip service to bipartisanship

and not planning to bring their bullshit to the table as some credible alternative.

[rucky]

49. I see his message as anti-partisan, not bipartisan.

big difference.

[PeaceNikki]

44. Your post made me think of a GREAT post a few months ago:

Seems like a good place to re-post it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2255470&mesg_id=2255615

Richardo (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-10-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message

26. Those that preach the wisdom of the middle way...

...want more Democrats in power.

Since you don't say what it is YOU want, I'll guess it's some kind of ideological purity that you and the rest of the dogmatically-cleansed "underground" can chant to one another late at night. You don't want politics, you want a catechism. You don't want to do what it takes to win, you'd rather lose and have the smug satisfaction that you are pure and unsullied in your heart.

More power to you. No wait, LESS power to you, because that approach will alienate the moderates, the Blue Dogs, the Independents, and especially the life-long Republicans who are finally maybe, just maybe ready to make the switch -- that is, everyone to the right of you and your chosen choir.

My thesis: The Democratic Party is a coalition. Always has been. It's our strength and our weakness. It's why Will Rogers' famous quote can be appreciated even today as both funny and insightful.

If you want out of the coalition, fine, good luck with your third- fourth- or fifth-party status. See if you ever get one electoral vote.

The rest of us? We have a majority to grow, an agenda to enact, a country's moral standing to rebuild, a Constitution to restore.

It's going to take all of us.

[bigtree]

46. no. this is not about ideology, because the republicans' is a lie which shifts and bends

to the wishes of their corporate masters.

Don't pretend that there aren't specific issues which form the dividing line. Most of these, on the Democratic side, are long standing efforts to provide basic needs and to uphold or establish basic rights which the republicans obstruct with whatever position or strategy suits the moment, often completely running over their previous philosophy, like their former objections to 'nation-building', or conservatives' former support of privacy rights.

These 'lifelong republicans' need to be CHALLENGED and discredited when they try and push their obstructionist, industry enabling agenda, not mollycoddled.