Gary Hart SLAMS Hillary

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

And I do mean, SLAMS!

All issues are equal, but some issues are more equal than others. Those more equal give an insight into decision making, leadership style, and even character. Anyone who has served in office is familiar with the question, "Why did he/she do that?," meaning why did that politician do what they did? It is a question impossible to answer, that is without having some divine access to the inner recesses of an individual's mind or even soul.

Great decisions, however, can reveal how future great decisions might be made. No decision since the so-called Gulf of Tonkin resolution in Vietnam is more important than the vote on the 2002 war resolution on Iraq. Unlike health care, economic stimulus, immigration, and a host of other concerns, on that question there is clear difference between the Democratic finalists.

For those in the process of deciding between them for super Tuesday and beyond, they should be urged to consider this question very seriously. Those who decided to grant George W. Bush virtually unilateral authority to invade Iraq now must accept responsibility for its consequences. Votes have consequences. The consequences in Iraq are well over 30,000 American casualties , possibly one million Iraqi deaths, and at least a trillion American tax dollars spent on restructuring (much wasteful and corrupted) and not spent on U.S. schools, hospitals, and infrastructure.

Read the whole thing:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-hart/iraq-as-metaphor_b_84668.html

[goldcanyonaz]

1. Who?

[rufus dog]

68. sounds like a repuke response

you should be so proud of yourself.

[jlake]

2. You mean that guy with the bimbo? Yawn.

[JI7]

3. no, not Bill Clinton

[billbuckhead]

5. He's just mad he never got Hillary on the loveboat

[rodeodance]

46. she would've shown him who's boss!!

[goldcanyonaz]

7. Bill Clinton became President. Gary Hart became... umm....

[Straight Shooter]

The answer is: He became tabloid fodder. n/t

[emilyg]

61. That's it.

[Hart2008]

108. Gary Hart became the Chairman of the Hart-Rudman Commission which predicted the 9-11 attacks.

He also advised Senate Democrats not to give Bush carte blanche authority to invade Iraq.

[AntiFascist]

112. ... in other words, he was too smart for the status quo. n/t

[Hart2008]

123. Hart has always been ahead of his time. n/t

[truebrit71]

114. In other words a real moron right?

:sarcasm:

Some people around here REALLY don't know WHAT the fuck they are saying half the time...

And yet they IDOLIZE someone like Clinton (Bill, that is)

:eyes:

[krkaufman]

122. I don't have the time or inclination, but I expect it would be hilarious to compare ...

... those disparaging Gary Hart with those protesting the disparagement of Joe Wilson, today, in regards to his December commentary on Hillary and Obama.

[jlake]

8. I don't think Bill Clinton was derailed from the presidency because of his bimbos though.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

16. Monica, hmmm. Why does that name sound familiar? jlake? Any ideas?

[jlake]

20. Hmmm. Yet it happened in the oval office, so I guess it didn't cost Clinton his presidency.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

26. Spin away...

[chascarrillo]

38. But it cost Gore his presidency.

And look where that got us.

[jlake]

40. Oh Dear. Gore lost because he *distanced* himself from Clinton.

Clinton had 60-70% approval ratings when he left office.

[chascarrillo]

50. And why did Gore feel the need to distance himself from Clinton?

Any ideas?

[jlake]

52. Listening to Barack's Mentor's advice.

Joe Lieberman talked him into it.
Al Gore didn't have the courage to stand by Clinton and it cost him (and us)
Sad sad sad.

[chascarrillo]

56. Keep hate alive!

[jlake]

59. I'm not a hater. Just pointing out inconvenient facts.

[chascarrillo]

63. Nothing hateful about your numerous invective-laden posts at all.

Not even a whisper!

[jlake]

64. Okay. Don't blame Gore's loss on Bill - that shows irrational hate.

[chascarrillo]

67. Bill? You mean that guy with the bimbo? Yawn.

[donheld]

74. They're not haters, they're just insane. n/t

[rpannier]

53. Because he listened to Schrum nt

[rpannier]

45. We're still spinning that BS I see

Gore has no one but his own campaign to blame for his loss.

This is a man who lost the state of Tennessee and West Virginia (a state the Dems did quite well in in 2000 as I recall). West Virginians did NOT turn against Gore because of Clinton, they did over 'Gun control.'

Gore tried to run a centrist campaign and alienated the base of support.
In doing so, he was forced to funnel money into states and regions that should have been his to begin with.

He refused to use Clinton in states like Arkansas and Michigan early on for fear of alienating those 'independents' we keep hearing so much about.
It was only after his campaign was in trouble that he did what he should have done early on and had Clinton go to areas where Bill is popular.
Where Bill campaigned Gore did well.

Gore has Gore to blame for his campaigns missteps. His decision to use Schrum as his campaign director speaks volumes about his tin-ear for national politics at the time. Schrum had failed in almost every national campaign he was ever involved in because he plays nice.

Stop blaming Bill and place the blame where it belongs -- Gore

[chascarrillo]

55. Nice analysis, and Gore certainly made mistakes...

... but Clinton's actions did have an effect on the 2000 race. This shouldn't even be debatable. Even though I drink more than my share, I remember that election.

[rpannier]

66. As do I

But Gore is to blame for the MANY failures of his campaign

The "It's all Bill's fault mantra is just BS"

[chascarrillo]

69. Absolutely

I absolutely agree. I just rankled at the previous poster's implication that if it didn't harm Bill, then that's all that mattered.

On edit: I should also add that I don't blame Bill at all for the 2000 election. You're absolutely right that all the missteps were Gore's responsibility.

[psychopomp]

84. I think it did...

...figuratively speaking. Now, when Americans remember the Clinton "legacy" they think of cigars and "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky..." I believe this is just as unfortunate as anybody else would.

I think there are many Americans who are a bit squeamish about the idea of Bill Clinton back in the White House.

[truebrit71]

115. Riiight...and those impeachment hearings and the national disgrace was what, a vivid nightmare?

..gimme a break...you're gonna have to work harder to spin your way out of THAT pile of horseshit...

[RaleighNCDUer]

54. Not for lack of trying. nt

[Guaranteed]

28. Zing! nt

[rodeodance]

44. nah-the other guy who messes around!!

[anyothername]

71. heyohhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[Kahuna]

75. Oh. No. You. Didin't!

Low five!

[blm]

11. You mean the guy who authored Hart-Rudman Report on Global Terror that Bush YAWNED and

ignored?

Gee - if Bush and more Dems in the senate would have listened to Gary Hart there wouldn't have BEEN a 9-11 event in the first place.

But you go ahead and PLAY your game of pretend that real patriots have no credibility while the manipulative fascists who reside on the coverup wing of the DEmocratic party gain your support.

[jlake]

14. Too bad Gary never became president himself - he could have done something.

I am tired of being on the losing side of elections.
We need to win.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

24. Oh Noes! Not again...

I suggest familiarizing yourself with the big O. That won't let you down. :evilgrin:

[blm]

88. So you've called for Terry McAuliffe's ouster from the party for neglecting election fraud

for the four years after 2000s theft?

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. "Monkey Business" Hotcha!

Hart, go fuck yourself.

[scheming daemons]

6. Cue the Clintonistas throwing Hart under the bus in 4....3....2....1...

nm

[ErnestoG]

10. I'm beginning to think its in their DNA

[annie1]

13. i'll go first. He's jealous he had to drop out of the race and bill didn't have to?

[UALRBSofL]

18. Well, he can't help himself

It's his jealous rage.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

17. Oh oh, too slow.

:raspberry:

[BootinUp]

27. No I wont do that, but

I will just say for the millionth time that Democrats constantly misinterpret the IWR and blame the wrong people. I will also repeat what Wes Clark said in 2004, The IWR should not be a litmus test.

[Hart2008]

87. By most accounts that happened 20 years ago when Bill flunked his interview to be Hart's VP,

Carville is the leading candidate for spreading rumors that Hart was a "womanizer" in '88.

Does the quote, purportedly from former adviser in Newsweek, that Hart could have a problem in the campaign "if he can't keep his pants on," sound like Carville?


Carville had been laid off from Hart's '84 campaign, a protege of Hart media consultant and advisor, Ray Strothers, and working for Clinton.

Clinton had wanted to be Hart's V.P. in '88, but flunked the interview. Clinton hired Strothers after his successful work for Hart's '84 campaign. Strothers was now working for two men who wanted to be President. Strothers pushed Hart to interview Clinton to be his V.P. After the interview, Hart told Strothers that Clinton had "no core" and didn't "believe in anything". (Strothers wrote about this in his book, Falling Up.) Carville would repeat these lines, almost verbatim, but attribute them to Kenneth Starr.

Twenty years later, there still isn't a single woman who has come forward by name to allege she had a sexual relationship with Hart. (Donna Rice always denied her relationship with Hart was sexual, and never made a dime for herself from the notoriety.)

But twenty years later, a mystery still remains: Who was the self described "liberal Democrat" woman who kept calling the Miami Herald to goad them into following Donna Rice to D.C.?

Why hasn't that woman written a book?

Cui bono?

[Metric System]

9. Obama's surrogates seem to be attacking Hillary way more than Hillary's surrogates attack Obama. I

don't see what all this does for party unity.

[ErnestoG]

12. "Seem" is the operative word here.

[yardwork]

15. Gary Hart is lecturing me on leadership and character? Pfft.

[ErnestoG]

19. Would you rather that Bill Clinton did it?

[Cha]

34. Yeah, gimme some of bill clinton wagging

his moral authority finger.

[Straight Shooter]

39. Why are Barack's supporters so obsessed with Bill's wagging finger?

I would think the Clenis would have been enough to satisfy all of you by now.

[ErnestoG]

47. To give Clintonistas a lesson or two in consistency?

[Jamastiene]

70. Well, you know crotch sniffers never can get enough.

:P

[Laura PourMeADrink]

21. Why does he say 30,000 American casualities? Does he mean 3,000

or is he talking wounded.

Excellent statement. Gary Hart has grown to be a wise, elder statesmen with no residual bitterness.

[ErnestoG]

25. I'm sure he's including the wounded. Nobody seems to want to talk about them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. And it is an underestimate, at that. More like 40,000. nt

[OzarkDem]

22. She's not his type, he prefers dumb blonde bimbos

Hart is threatened by strong women. What's new?

[ErnestoG]

30. Instead of bitchy blondes.

[kurth]

31. Figures. His bimbo later became a RW tool

In 1999, Donna Rice Hughes was appointed by Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-Miss.) to a congressional panel...

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. And you are sure she was NOT a RW tool to begin with, set up

to take him out of the race?

Just because he snapped at the bait, it doesn't mean it wasn't a set up.

[Hart2008]

90. He was set up. Rupert Murdoch was involved.

Rice may have been the bait, but for 20 years she has denied that her relationship with Hart was sexual. The real tool was the British woman who "borrowed" Rice's pictures and then sold them to the National Inquirer. She is believed to be the same woman involved in a similar scandal in the UK that was published in one of Murdoch's newspapers.

Twenty years later, there still isn't a single woman who has come forward by name to allege she had a sexual relationship with Hart. (Donna Rice always denied her relationship with Hart was sexual, and never made a dime for herself from the notoriety.)

But twenty years later, a mystery still remains: Who was the self described "liberal Democrat" woman who kept calling the Miami Herald to goad them into following Donna Rice to D.C.?

Why hasn't that woman written a book?

Cui bono?

[goldcanyonaz]

32. Excellent point. Bravo!

:hi:

[Hart2008]

85. Strange, Hart has been married to a very strong minded woman for 50 years now.

By most accounts, the problem in their marriage was a conflict of wills, not the "womanizing" smear the MSM promoted.

The black communities in D.C. or Colorado never claimed that Gary Hart consorted with prostitutes or has a mulatto love child.

No one has posted pictures of the Hart's children on the Internet alongside of pics of Web Hubbell for people to compare.

Oh, yes, Donna Rice Hughes, who for 20 years has denied that her relationship with Hart was sexual and never made a dime from the notoriety, was a Phi Beta Kappa who now runs an organization to protect children from porn on the Internet:

http://www.enough.org/

People like you gave us Bush I and II.

[depakid]

23. I neither trust nor expect that Obama would have voted "no"

if he'd had the chance in the Senate.

His brief tenure in the Senate has shown that as often as not, he's been willing to "go along to get along," and has seemed more interested in ingratiating himself with the beltway crowd than in standing up for -much less using his high powered rhetoric to champion progressive positions.

Wellstone he ain't -that's for sure.

[candice]

29. too bad bama wasn't in the senate then to make a vote, or that when he was

...he voted for funding every time. It is a kind of fairy tale, is it not?

I wonder if he had been Senator from New York, the one whose constituents were at Ground Zero, Obama would have voted against allowing inspectors into Iraq, allowing a President to be commander-in-chief. There was mass hysteria at the time. Congress voted for it because their constituents wanted to have some control over what was happening in the Middle East.

Who'd thunk that a president would lie to Congress and the American people to start an optional war.

And why is he not in jail?

[Cha]

42. You can wonder away candace..

it is what is and Obama spoke out about the bombing of Iraq in 2002 and said it was a bad idea and laid out exactly why..

"Remarks of Illinois State Sen. Barack Obama Against Going to War with Iraq
| October 02, 2002
October 2, 2002

Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don't oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain. I don't oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again. I don't oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism.

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the President today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?"


http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php

Protecting the lying clintons must be exhaustive work.

[Carolina]

48. touche

excellent post as was Obabma's spot-on speech.

HRC can run, hide, twist and spin, but Hart is right: VOTES have CONSEQUENCES!

[polpilot]

80. YES WE CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great Post Zidzi.

[Cha]

33. I see the hilarys are trashing the messenger cause

the message is true..

"Consider these two questions when deciding how to vote on Tuesday and beyond: Why did Senator Clinton give George W. Bush the authority to invade Iraq; and why can she not bring herself to admit she was wrong? Regarding the first, she now says that she was only authorizing war as a last resort. Others who voted as she did and now admit error, including Senators Biden, Dodd, and Edwards, do not make that argument. They admit they were wrong. As to the second question, the plausible excuses are few: she still thinks it was right; she thinks the operation was mismanaged; she clings to the hope that this vote and continued support for it will serve her well with conservatives in a general election; she believes it is a symbol of "strength."

hilary has blood on her hands and the Karma's gotta get her.

[ZinZen]

43. Yes Zidzi you are correct

When someone like Hart makes an accurate assessment. The Clintons'supporters start circling around like desparate sharks in the water.

[Tarc]

94. You mean like Gary Hart's "go get some proof" response

when confronted on the campaign trail? :rofl:

I find it amusing that as the "hope and change" meme gets shriller, the more creaking relics from ages past hop on board the bandwagon.

[Hart2008]

99. To what question exactly did Hart respond with your alleged quote?

First find the right quote, and then put it in context with the question that preceded it.

Ask E.J. Dionne exactly what question he asked Hart to elicit that response.

Twenty years later, we still don't know.

[Tarc]

100. I believe the exact quote was...

Follow me around. I don't care. I'm serious. If anybody wants to put a tail on me, go ahead. They'll be very bored.

And when they took him up on his offer...



Whoops!

[Hart2008]

103. To what question exactly did Hart respond with your alleged quote?

Still waiting....

What did Dionne ask him to elicit that response?

Was he asked if he visited whore houses?

YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!


And no, the Miami Herald never followed Hart anywhere, and had already begun following Rice and bought tickets to D.C. before reading E.J. Dionne's story from which that quote came.


The picture is the copyright of Donna Rice Huges and was published without her permission.

It doesn't prove the relationship was sexual, which Rice has now denied for 20 years.

[Tarc]

104. It doesnt matter, he still got caught cheating and his campaign tanked

He challenged them to find dirt, they dug, and he got hosed. No one likes sanctimonious pricks who brag about how good they are and how no one can find anything bad on them. Obama's just like that now, that squeaky-clean "hope and change" veneer gets sheared off pretty quick when you pry even the first layer off.


Its been 20 years now, and your namesake (what a dumb thing that is in itself...who's joining the DU tomorrow; "Dukakis2008" ? "Muskie2008" ? :rofl: ) and his screeds are still just as irrelevant now as they were back then.

[Hart2008]

107. People who think as you do are the reason the party continues to lose Presidential elections.

I am still waiting for you to provide the question to which Hart responded such that it may be seen in it's proper context.

A married man who is tempted to leave his wife for a younger woman but doesn't, isn't really dirt, especially when all involved deny the relationship was sexual. He and his wife have now been married for 50 years, and that should speak for itself.

The reality is that spent 12 years as a Senator and ran two presidential campaigns without taking a dime from a PAC. In fact he mortgaged his house and auctioned off a car to pay for his '84 campaign debts. That is the kind of candidate I want running for President, not some political whore who is bought and paid for by every corporation and PAC waving money in front of his/her nose.

Gary Hart predicted the terrorist attacks before 9-11 as the Co-Chair of the Hart-Rudman Commission. He is the foremost authority in the party on homeland security and terrorism. He is also an expert on foreign policy and is a possible candidate for Secretary of State in an Obama cabinet.

He is also a prime candidate to be Obama's V.P.

No one likes sanctimonious pricks who repeats 20 year old smears against prominent Dem's here on DU.

:puke:

[sandnsea]

35. Discounting a man's character because of his bimbos??

What a thread. What a hypocritical disconnect. Shows the bizarre nature of the anti-Obama contingent.

[ErnestoG]

49. Sounds familiar doesn't it. What a disconnect some of these Hillarites have.

[Inuca]

78. The disconnect is indeed

mind-blowing. It's as if they cannot think beyond the next half-step. Hart -> monkey business -> bimbo -> SLAM!!! Clinton -> Oval Office -> bimbo -> national emabarassment -> OOPS!!! Would be funny if it weren's so pathetic, and almost scary in the its narrow mindedness and just plain stupidity.

[Hart2008]

111. There isn't a single woman to come forward by name to accuse Hart of anything improper.

With Bill Clinton, the bimbos kept coming, along with women who claimed sexual harassment, groping and even rape.

The difference was that the MSM was trying to "out" women they suspected of being sexually involved with Hart. These women denied the rumors, but where harassed any way by the MSM.

Whatever her involvement with Hart, Donna Rice Hughes is no bimbo.

She was a Phi Beta Kappa who now runs an organization to protect children from Internet pornography:

http://www.enough.org/

Like Hart she has a commitment to public service, which is admirable.

[calmblueocean]

36. Holy smokes, Bullwinkle! That's a slam all right.

Hillary could've at least partially neutralized this issue long ago by following the same course set by John Edwards. She didn't, and the shadow of the vote has grown larger and larger every day, until now it covers her whole campaign.

[rpannier]

37. Supported Hart in 84 and 88

He threw away his Presidency for a little "Monkey Business."

As a former Hart for Prez supporter and an Edwards supporter, "I don't find this post particularly convincing."

[StevieM]

41. I'm saddened to hear that...I always liked him

I was going to support him in 2004 if he ran. I guess we disagree on this one.

I'm sure he'll be pleasantly surprised when she becomes president.

Steve

[Hart2008]

89. There is no love between Gary Hart and the Clintons, and hasn't been any for 20 years.

Gary Hart introduced Bill Clinton to national politics.

Hart was McGovern's campaing manager in '72. He hired Bill Clinton as regional director of the campaign for Texas and Arkansas. Yet, in his book, Bill Clinton makes no mention of this. He only mentions Hart with regard to sex scandals, which is obsurd in comparison to the numerous and many complaints by differnt women against Bill Clinton, rape, sexual harassment, etc.

Clinton had wanted to be Hart's V.P. in '88, but flunked the interview. Clinton hired Ray Strothers, Hart's media advisor, after his successful work for Hart's '84 campaign. Strothers was now working for two men who wanted to be President. Strothers pushed Hart to interview Clinton to be his V.P. After the interview, Hart told Strothers that Clinton had "no core" and didn't "believe in anything". (Strothers wrote about this in his book, Falling Up.) Carville would repeat these lines, almost verbatim, but attribute them to Kenneth Starr.

Twenty years later, there still isn't a single woman who has come forward by name to allege she had a sexual relationship with Hart. (Donna Rice always denied her relationship with Hart was sexual, and never made a dime for herself from the notoriety.)

But twenty years later, a mystery still remains: Who was the self described "liberal Democrat" woman who kept calling the Miami Herald to goad them into following Donna Rice to D.C.?

Why hasn't that woman written a book?

Cui bono?

[madfloridian]

51. I love this paragraph...total truth.

""Triangulation" and "centrism" may have led to eight years of a Democratic presidency in the 1990s.. But it also blurred the principles of the Democratic party. It led young politicians to believe that the safest course was in some vague middle ground. And, tragically, it led too many Democrats to believe they had to prove their national security credentials by voting for any military misadventure right wing hawks could think up."

[paulk]

57. I have the greatest respect for Gary Hart

afterall, he was my Senator and I voted for him.

But I find his reasoning here shallow -

"Consider these two questions when deciding how to vote on Tuesday and beyond: Why did Senator Clinton give George W. Bush the authority to invade Iraq; and why can she not bring herself to admit she was wrong? Regarding the first, she now says that she was only authorizing war as a last resort. Others who voted as she did and now admit error, including Senators Biden, Dodd, and Edwards, do not make that argument. They admit they were wrong. As to the second question, the plausible excuses are few: she still thinks it was right; she thinks the operation was mismanaged; she clings to the hope that this vote and continued support for it will serve her well with conservatives in a general election; she believes it is a symbol of "strength.""

------------

I truly don't understand this need that so many have that Hillary needs to admit she was "wrong" on the IWR. All that seems to do, from my POV anyway, is to absolve Bush from the blame of lying to Congress and misusing the authority given him.

And as far as election strategizing goes - not admitting she was wrong willhelp her in the general election. There are millions of Americans who supported the IWR for the same reasons as HRC, and they won't appreciate the finger wagging employed by Hart. Perhaps Sen. Hart's failed in his quest for the Presidency for a reason?

------------

To go from there to supporting Obama is also something of a logical leap, since Obama was not in a position to vote on the IWR and, in fact, admitted that he was not privy to the information the Senate was and was not sure how he would have voted had he been in that position.

I didn't accept that argument from Dean or Clark in 2004 - that of attacking Kerry for his "yes" vote when they were not in a position to actually cast a vote, and I'm not going to accept it this time around.

[stillrockin]

58. Guess Hil should have calculated her vote differently . . .

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

65. Another one o' them thar evil doers

Like evil-doers Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Keith Olberman, Rachel Maddow, Caroline Kennedy, Tom Daschle, Patrick Leahy and a host of others.

[CyberPieHole]

72. The moron who brought us "Monkey Business"...LOL...

:rofl:

[Inuca]

77. That "moron" is one of the best

foreign (and not only) policy minds out there. And if you need a reminder of more recent indiscretions closer to your political home, just read upthread.

[CyberPieHole]

113. If I want to look at political indiscretion I just look at Obama's pot smoking and cocaine snorting.

That sets a really good example.:eyes:

[Hart2008]

124. Right, like Roger Clinton on tape w undercover cops , "My brother has a nose like a vacuum cleaner".

Should we take Roger's word about Bill on that?

He must know him very well, right?

It's nothing to sneeze at!

:hi:

[Hart2008]

86. No, you need to ask Carville about that dirty trick.

Carville is the leading candidate for spreading rumors that Hart was a "womanizer" in '88.

Does the quote, purportedly from former adviser in Newsweek, that Hart could have a problem in the campaign "if he can't keep his pants on," sound like Carville?


Carville had been laid off from Hart's '84 campaign, a protege of Hart media consultant and advisor, Ray Strothers, and working for Clinton.

Clinton had wanted to be Hart's V.P. in '88, but flunked the interview. Clinton hired Strothers after his successful work for Hart's '84 campaign. Strothers was now working for two men who wanted to be President. Strothers pushed Hart to interview Clinton to be his V.P. After the interview, Hart told Strothers that Clinton had "no core" and didn't "believe in anything". (Strothers wrote about this in his book, Falling Up.) Carville would repeat these lines, almost verbatim, but attribute them to Kenneth Starr.

Twenty years later, there still isn't a single woman who has come forward by name to allege she had a sexual relationship with Hart. (Donna Rice always denied her relationship with Hart was sexual, and never made a dime for herself from the notoriety.)

But twenty years later, a mystery still remains: Who was the self described "liberal Democrat" woman who kept calling the Miami Herald to goad them into following Donna Rice to D.C.?

Why hasn't that woman written a book?

Cui bono?

[VotesForWomen]

73. false premise: that Obama did vote/would have voted against IWR. who knows how he would have voted.

[Nimrod2005]

76. Well said and well deserved!

[Didereaux]

79. GAry Hart - Over the hill, peabrained, gigalo send him back to Sun City!

[Hart2008]

81. Repeating 20 year old RW smears on DU are you?

Twenty years after Hart left the '88 race, there isn't a single woman, other than his wife, who has come forward to claim that she had sex with Gary Hart, or that Hart was ever anything less than a gentleman around women.

This individual is posting a right wing smear against the top Democrat in the country on the issues of homeland security, and terrorism.

Hart is also an expert in foreign policy, and is a leading candidate to become Secretary of State.


SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

:grr:

[Didereaux]

91. can we say Donna Mills(?) pic and Garys' taunt to the press to 'catch him'

hardly something the RW did...the stupid bastard when confronted with the rumor of an affair instead of just denying it, invited the press to 'get some proof'. So they did. A picture of him on a yacht with Donna on his lap. He then went away. Stupid!

[Hart2008]

97. Hart never taunted anyone. The bigger issue was the double standard: Poppy and Jennifer Fitzgerald

I have a similar photo with my cousin.

Does that prove incest?

Twenty years later we still don't know exactly what E. J. Dionne said to Hart to provoke that response. We do know that it wasn't published until after the Miami Herald had invested in plane tickets to D.C. So that is crap.

The fact is that Rice had never met Hart when he gave the interview with Dionne.

The Miami Herald never followed Hart anywhere, never saw how Donna Rice entered the property, and therefore, never saw how she left. They never should have done what they did, nor wrote what they wrote. Rice didn't spend that night at Hart's D.C. townhouse, and has denied for 20 years that the relationship was sexual, and never made a dime form the notoriety. That should be enough for a reasonable person.

But why let the facts get in the way of your opinion, right?

A married man tempted to divorce his wife by younger women but doesn't isn't much of a scandal.

Hart has been married to the same woman for 50 years.

Like he said, he is boring.

But the bigger question is this:
Why was Hart hounded with allegations of "womanizing" (not having an affair as you allege) but Bush, Sr., wasn't, when Nancy Reagan herself was dishing dirt about the Bushes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Fitzgerald

If Newsweek and Miami Herald were writing crap about Hart based on anonymous sources of dubious credibility, why wouldn't they write the same things about Bush when the source was Nancy Reagan?

Bush was never even asked the questions like those which the MSM hounded Hart!

Why is that we have a sitting V.P. whose name appears repeatedly on the D.C. madam's call list and the MSM won't report it?

You missed something here.

The fact remains that 20 years later, not a single woman has come forward by name to allege that she had sex with Hart, and that includes Donna Rice.

[burythehatchet]

117. Wonderful actress, that Donna Mills. Ever see "YOU DON'T KNOW DICK"?

[Inuca]

83. It's spelled "gigolo"

and I don't think you know what it means.

[blm]

92. Hart didn't bend over FOR Jackson Stephens - Bill Clinton did and deep-sixed BCCI report

for Poppy Bush and Stephens.

So YOU think Donna Rice caused 9-11? I KNOW the deep-sixing of BCCI report did. But THAT is OK with you, eh?

[burythehatchet]

116. Ever see that Daily Show segment "YOU DON'T KNOW DICK"?

just askin'

[cgrindley]

82. Gary Hart is a fucking tool

Why should anyone give a shit what that idiot says?

[blm]

93. YOU should. The HartRudman Report on Global Terror would've PREVENTED 9-11. Bush agreed with you

though and didn't give a shit what Hart said.

I'm sure the 9-11 families are happy with Bush's and YOUR analysis.

[cgrindley]

95. If the dumb son of a bitch had kept his gonads under control

we wouldn't have had Bush the Father. I will forever hate Gary Hart for being a dick.

[blm]

96. And if Bill Clinton hadn't deep-sixed BCCI report BushInc would've been jailed by 1994

instead of planning their return to White House in 2000.

[Hart2008]

98. Sorry where was the sex? Where's the semen stained dress and the mulatto love child?

By comparison to Clinton, Hart is very dull indeed!

This from someone from the Dukakis camp, I take it.

If you voted for Dukakis in the primaries, don't blame anyone else for Bush.

Just go look in the mirror.

[cgrindley]

105. Dukakis was the worst possible candidate to run

Clinton, in comparison to Gary Hart, didn't let any concrete evidence of his marital infidelity get out until AFTER he was elected president. Even the infamous interview wasn't quite the same as having a god damn photograph spread all over the world. Hart was an idiot.

[Hart2008]

106. The photograph was published without permission and doesn't prove sex.

For 20 years Rice has denied that the relationship was sexual.

Thus, no marital infidelity.

What is pathetic is that credible news media rebroadcast a story from the National Inquirer and shadowy anonymous phone calls to the Miami Herald. When 64% of the American public told Gallup that the media coverage of Hart's personal life, the MSM started the meme that Hart asked for it.

Had the Internet existed as it does today, the truth could have gotten out.

Contrary to the media myth, the Miami Herald and the National Inquirer were not the reason Hart suspended his campaign in May of '87. The story that he had a sexual relationship with Donna Rice wasn't true. It was only so much gossip.

Hart's problem, the reason he suspended the campaign when he did, was the Washington Post. The timing of events led people to believe it was because of Donna Rice, and that is not correct. The Washington Post told Hart if he didn't leave the race, they would report that he had an ongoing affair with the wife of another Democratic Senator. She denied it, but that didn't stop the Post from threatening to publish more gossip. Faced with the media circus and distraction to the serious, but boring, issues he was trying to discuss, and the damage that was going to be inflicted upon a defenseless women, and the party itself, Hart suspended his campaign until he could get the WaPo to kill the story. He succeeded, and eventually resumed the campaign. He was leading in the polls in Iowa until a false story was published right before the caucuses claiming there were illegal contributions to his campaign. The timing of another smear right before Iowa, caused his support there to disappear. He went from first to last in about a week.

You also miss the fact that what happened to Hart was unprecedented. He had no reason to expect that his personal life would become a campaign issue. Even Richard Nixon said what the media did to Hart was wrong. Nixon even wrote a letter to Hart, who had been McGovern's campaign manager, to express that opinion.

Four years later the media had decided that the problem wasn't that Hart had had marital problems, but that he refused to talk about them with the media. So Clinton went on 60 Minutes and confessed to causing "pain in my marriage", and the MSM stopped reporting about Clinton's bimbo's and other women making more serious claims. (They also ignored Jerry Brown when he confronted Clinton with what would become the Whitewater scandals involving Web Hubbell and Hillary's law firm doing work for the State, the McDougal's, etc.)

There is a more damning photograph of Bill Clinton on a plane with his hand on the inner thigh of a flight attendant. (She later got a very good government job in exchange for her silence.) It was published in a RW source that I won't cite here, but you are right that Hart didn't try to cover things up like the Clinton's. There are no allegations of women who had an affair with Hart being threatened, their pets getting killed, etc.

In fact, there aren't any women who have come forward to claim that they had a sexual relationship with Gary Hart EVER.

The photograph was spread all over the world due to Rupert Murdoch and a British woman who "borrowed" the photo from Donna Rice. The photograph doesn't prove anything.

I have a similar photo with my cousin.

Does it prove incest?

[cgrindley]

109. Would you like to buy this bridge I have?

low low price.

[Hart2008]

110. Do you like people prying into your personal life and hiding in your bushes?

Donna Rice is the former girlfriend of the Eagles Don Henley, a prominent Hart supporter.

He wrote the song Dirty Laundry about the whole incident.

She has denied the relationship was sexual for 20 years and never made a dime from the notoriety.

Compare her to Clinton's bimbos.

The comparison is very favorable.

A Phi Beta Kappa, she now runs an organization to protect children from Internet pornography,

Like Hart, she has a commitment to public service.

Go sell your bridge somewhere else.

[GardeningGal]

126. Thank you for the information you've posted in this thread.

It certainly explains a lot to me. Did not know the Murdoch connection and it makes me understand so much more. I worked for the Hart campaign and this really hits home for me. I didn't realize Murdoch was involved back then. I have a whole new appreciation for this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uu8ga3IDsM

[Hart2008]

127. Yes a Murdoch operative was involved with the "borrowed" picture.

CSN&Y wrote a song too:

Crosby Stills Nash & Young - American Dream Lyrics

I used to see you on every T.V.
Your smiling face looked back at me.
Then they caught you with the girl next door,
People's money piled on the floor,
Accusations that you try to deny,
Revelations and rumors begin to fly.
,,,
Reporters crowd around your house.
Going through your garbage like a pack of hounds,
Speculating what they may find out,

[burythehatchet]

119. but then where would you live?

:shrug:

[burythehatchet]

118. Your idiocy never ceases to amaze. n/t

[helderheid]

101. I have a crush on that man. My sister got to meet him recently.

[bushisachimp]

102. she voted for the war. what great judgement she has... NOT

[suston96]

120. Gary Hart? The married US Senator photographed in the back of a boat with another woman.....?

...and who had to drop out of the presidential campaign because of the scandal? That Gary Hart? Oh, yeah. He is definitely qualified to support Obama and "slam Hillary".

[AX10]

121. I am not interested in hearing about Character from...

Hart of all people. Hillary has more character than he ever did.

[Hart2008]

125. Is that why her negatives are near 50% for the GE? n/t