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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 01:32 AM
Original message
Bill Moyers illuminating interview about Obama
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 02:02 AM by LadyVT
No matter who you support, another great interview from independent journalist Bill Moyers' Journal, http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01112008/transcript3.html (which is on Friday evenings on PBS). He's had many interviews about the upcoming election, and you can find them there in the transcripts.

BILL MOYERS: But you go on to say why he can't win. Now, that would seem to suggest you don't think he can become President.

SHELBY STEELE: My gut feeling is that he's going to have a difficulty-- a difficult time doing that. The reason I think that we don't yet know him. We don't yet quite know. What his deep abiding convictions are. And he seems to have, you know, almost in a sense kept them concealed. And a part of the I think infatuation with Obama is because he's something of an invisible man. He's a kind of a projection screen. And you sort of see more your — the better side of yourself when you look at Obama than you see actually Barack Obama.

SHELBY STEELE: He finally in the last few years has one of the iron clad rules for bargainers is they can never tell you what they actually think and feel. They can never reveal their deep abiding convictions. Because the minute they do that, they're no longer an empty projection screen. They become an individual. And whites begin to say, well, I didn't know you felt that way. I didn't know you believed that. And the aura dissipates. If Barack Obama starts to say, you know, I really think there's a value to racial preferences even though it conflicts with equality under the law, people are, you know, that that's a little too-- that's a little too revealing of who he might really be.... He's all over television. But if you listen to his -- speeches 'change,' 'hope.' I mean, it's a kind of-- it's an empty mantra. I mean a surprising degree of emptiness, of lack of specificity. What change? Change from what to what? What direction do you want to take the country? What do you mean by hope? There's never any specificity there because specificity is dangerous to a bargainer...In Obama's case, there's more ambiguity. We have a pretty good idea. I mean, Hillary Clinton does the same thing, uses ambiguity. But we still have a pretty good idea of who she really is and what she wants to do with the country and so forth. John Edwards has probably got the straightest, most concrete message of any of them. We really know who he is. But Obama is still more invisible. We don't quite-- we don't know what he would do....Sometimes, Barack Obama is John F. Kennedy. Sometimes, he's Martin Luther King. Sometimes, he's Stokely Carmichael in 1968. He has these different masks that are tailored to the audience that he's in front of. And he does it with such facility that you, one, can not help but wonder who's the real-- what's his voice? What's his inflection?

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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Oprah Winfrey is the classic bargainer who never challenges white America"
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 01:52 AM by kurth
"If Barack Obama starts to say, you know, I really think there's a value to racial preferences even though it conflicts with equality under the law, people are, you know, that that's a little too-- that's a little too revealing of who he might really be... And so his answer, this is the answer of all bargainers in a sense is to remain invisible as much as possible.

Edwards has probably got the straightest, most concrete message of any of them. We really know who he is. But Obama is still more invisible. We don't quite-- we don't know what he would do."
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. of the Heritage Foundation, right wing think tank. Which is mentioned...
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 01:58 AM by mahina
nowhere. I caught this interview.

First off, you are violating the copyright rules and should edit this down to 4 paragraphs right away.
I know you think it's important enough, but actually, it isn't. If you aren't familiar with the rules, I suggest you go find them and read them.

I found Steele's analysis very interesting, but was struck that Moyers would accept this without offering the other side. I am a fan of Bill Moyers, in fact just subsribed to his podcast, and only today reccomended his program to a woman here looking for good political information.

Part of being a good media consumer is discerning the bias in what you read and hear, and the bias is not hard to find in Mr. Steele's writings, nor is it difficult to locate in this interview.


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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thanks for the tip.
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Hmmm
I thought it was a very interesting interview. I'm a big fan of Moyers - he's probably the absolute best journalist out there today.

I actually was ready for some real bias to show up in this interview because of who Steele is. There was a lot less than I expected.

I always find Moyer's interviews to be thought provoking, whether or not I'm coming from the same place as his interviewee.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Tried to send you this message, but you don't recieve messages.
Since you are new here as of Feb. 2, you may want to read this:http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html
5. Copyrights: Do not copy-and-paste entire articles onto this discussion forum. When referencing copyrighted work, post a short excerpt (not exceeding 4 paragraphs) with a link back to the original.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks for the tip.
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Why are you
Posting the same thing twice? And you aren't being very nice about it either.

I also tried to PM the OP to gently tell her she might want to read the rules about posting articles. No snark needed.

I swear, Obama people really need to work on some of that "niceness" that he projects.

Me, I'm still voting for Edwards and I'm still trying to get people to talk about issues and not personalities.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks
I just joined this forum over the weekend, having gotten very hopeful and interested in this campaign after being hopeless for the past eight years. I confess I don't remember reading the 4-paragraph rule, but it sure makes sense. I feel I've read a lot of longer stuff on here, but maybe they weren't quotes.

Thanks for the info; it's helpful. ;)

Now if I can just figure out how to accept PMs...
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. No worries.
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 02:25 AM by mahina
Thanks for editing it down.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. I gave her more information,
including a link and the text. No snark. Vote for John Edwards or John McCain, it's none of my business anyway. Nor is your opinion of my 'niceness'.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you for posting Bill Moyers' little right winger friend.
Got anything better?
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Better?
I am far from being a right-winger, myself, but I find that it is sometimes the case that people whose ideological views don't match mine still have some thought-provoking things to say. It's not like they are insane demons, right?

Who was it who said, "know your enemies, lest you become them?" Can't remember.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Really good point!
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. So now Moyers
is a right winger? He is one of the best journalists out there today. Of course, now he's going to get attacked by Obama fans. He consistantly provides quality journalism when it is sorely lacking in the press.

Unbelievable that he is now going to be pilloried. If you're smart enough to watch Moyers, you're smart enough to figure out if you think Steele is full of shit or not.

Oh, I forgot - gotta censor what you don't like to hear.

Steele has a specific POV, agree with him or not (I am not touching that one -- but for the record, I don't agree with him on almost anything) Moyers has a right to interview the man without being called a toady for the right wing.

It's Bill Moyers, for pete's sake - you don't get much left of that!
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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Obama is a cipher, but you gotta hope there is some change there.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Have to say you are totally wrong about that.
It's one thing to disagree with someone, and another to totally mischaracterize them.

I'm no Hillary fan, but I haven't said anything negative about her. She's a competent able person. Calling Obama a cipher just shows you haven't been paying any attention, haven't chosen to inform yourself, or have swallowed propaganda whole.

His work is readily available. Start with the law he drafted and passed that requires confessions be videotaped, since so many confessors were mysteriously beaten up.

You did know he was an Illinois state senator for eight years, right?

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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. You have a reading problem?
I never said Bill was a right winger.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Obama people have been regaling us with the views of Frank Luntz and
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 02:49 AM by anamandujano
others of that persuasion.

I totally agree with Steele's comments that were posted here.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Two wrongs = what?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. Shelby Steele is
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. Strange how this interview with Shelby Steele keeps coming up.
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 02:56 AM by FrenchieCat
A Black Neocon in sheeps clothing out to sell books.

Hoover Institute think tank Justice Thomas protege filled with self hate who has no idea of what he's talking about, beyond the mask he himself wears.
http://www.hoover.org/bios/steele.html

A man itent to sell, for the price of a book, a portrait of Obama as a typical Black man. However, Obama was not even raised in the conventional sense of the Black man in America (by way of a White Mother and White Grandparents raised in Indonesia and Hawaii before coming back to the mainland after graduating from High School).

He doesn't know Obama, nor can he analyze Obama, because Obama doesn't represent the person that Shelby would like to have you believe. The man with the mask is Shelby Steele; the description that Steel provides you with is of himself.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. However,
the description we all provide of anyone we don't know is always ourselves.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
23. who he might be? and if he gets nominated, will he be mincemeat?

Irish Independent

October 30, 2007 Tuesday

LIFTED THE NATION? OR ACTUALLY DISGRACED IT?


There are certain times when it seems that this country is grimly intent on backsliding to the bad old days when the Irish simply refused to believe the evidence in front of their faces.
One example is the way Bertie Ahern can be exposed as either corrupt or a beggar in the wake of his marriage break-up and see his ratings rise.
But perhaps the most baffling instance of people refusing to take a rational look at life comes with the attempted rehabilitation of Michelle de Bruin, the most disgraced athlete in our history and a woman who brought shame to the country -- and was voted second favourite on the execrable RTE circle-jerk of mediocrity, Celebrities Gone Wild.

While you probably can't expect any better from a woman who's so hard-faced she makes even Heather Mills look like a timorous damsel, it seems being a banned drug cheat doesn'tmatter to some people -- including RTE who didn't even mention her ignominy on their website. Instead they referred to her as "Ireland's most successful Olympian".But who cares about the facts when you can feel the simple-minded platitudes.And few people do simple-minded platitudes quite like eventual winner, Dolly Healy Rae. As he said afterward about de Bruin: "She lifted this country before and she lifted it again in the last week."So kiddies, the next time someone starts to lecture you on the dangers of drugs -- just point out that they didn't do Michelle de Bruin any harm and, arrah shoor didn't she lift the kuntery.

BARAK LOSES HIS WAY

As Barak Obama's presidential campaign continues to implode with all the understated subtlety of the Hindenburg disaster, he seems even more intent on making things harder forhimself.
After his well-meaning but ill-judged decision not to wear an American lapel during a debate -- a decision the ever-reliable Fox Network claimed was as bad as the Lewinsky scandal -- he has now taken to hanging around with notorious anti-gay gospel singer Donnie McLurkin.

McLurkin, who describes himself as an "ex-gay" is renowned for rabble rousing gospel sessions and Obama will be touring South Carolinawith him.He has been condemned in Democratic circles -- it should be interesting to see what response he gets when he goes fund raising in Hollywood -- but maybe it's all part of a master plan by Obama's team.After all, what can Fox say about his decision?
"Today Barak Obama, non-patriot and terrorist sympathiser further ruined his reputation when he went on tour with a brave anti-gay campaigner...oh wait, we don't like gays either. Damn you Obama, stop confusing us!"



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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
24. Shelby Steele?
Pathetic. How like a Hilly supporter to take a wingnut as gospel. Oh well, Vermont does have a few right wing type dems.
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