Stop the spin about healthcare!!! Both sides, please. The truth is that

[Mass]

both plans are highly superior to any Republican plans and both plans are also not going to be implemented as it. The House and the Senate will not pass them as is (Hillary said as much yesterday on This Week). Enacting anything will require a lot of negotiation and conviction force! Things will be dropped of the agenda so that something can happen! Either that or we will get nothing!

So the reality is to know which between Obama and Clinton has this persistence, sense of negotiation without compromise, ... that will help us get somewhere!

So, stop these inept spins (She will garnish her wages, he does not want universal healthcare, ...) and come back to earth. We need to get something! Who can get something enacted!

[ellacott]

1. Thank you for being a voice of reason n/t

[joshcryer]

2. Yes, if Obama gets elected Hillary and Edwards can push for their similar health care plan.

It's not all lost. But Obama did do a diservice to the overall concept of universial health care, especially by employeeing GOP tactics to do it. It's unfortunate, but it's not all lost.

[Selatius]

3. Post deleted.

[Mass]

4. I have been posting my opinion on that for months, long before it became a

primary issue. (See my sigline).

But what I see on DU is not thoughtful argument by people. It is regurgitation of campaign talking points, and it will help nobody.

[joshcryer]

6. You clearly have not seen my posts.

Take care! :)

[Selatius]

7. I hate to say it, but this is primary season in a primary forum. There's a lot of politicking now.

It's going to be like that for a while, likely even after Super Tuesday. I get what you're saying, but even if politics weren't clouding the issue, the other element of ignorance does. The debate seems to become narrowly limited whenever the Repubs throw out the "socialist" label in a derogatory manner at anything resembling Canadian or French-style single-payer options, and many people ignorantly equate socialism with Stalinist communism.

[BootinUp]

11. Since the plan includes a government insurance option

I guess I can ignore your non point.

[Selatius]

12. I know Edwards' plan does, and he's out. Does Hillary offer the same mechanism?

If she does, I would gladly erase my previous post.

[BootinUp]

13. yes

this is from the summary of her plan:

The American Health Choices Plan gives Americans the choice to preserve their existing coverage, while offering new choices to those with insurance, to the 47 million people in the United States without insurance, and the tens of millions more at risk of losing coverage.


The Same Choice of Health Plan Options that Members of Congress Receive: Americans can keep their existing coverage or access the same menu of quality private insurance options that their Members of Congress receive through a new Health Choices Menu, established without any new bureaucracy as part of the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program (FEHBP). In addition to the broad array of private options that Americans can choose from, they will be offered the choice of a public plan option similar to Medicare.


This is the main reason i am strongly advocating her approach over Obamas. If enough people opt for a not for profit plan it will start to revolutionize the system.

[Selatius]

16. Fair enough. I only hope people come to realize that quickly enough.

If the mandate passes, I'm buying into the Medicare-equivalent simply because the entity won't tack on a profit mark-up in premiums. If too many people are propagandized into believing it will be of poorer quality than private for-profit health insurance, change will not come quickly enough for a lot of people.

[Little Star]

19. Hope that all are concerned ,about ALL US citizens, will read your

post,Jim4Wes. The young will face this issue in their future. I just hope they understand, they are not invincible from health problems, sooner or later. As well as their children and Grandchildren. (sigh)

[Mass]

14. Here are their plans... Not sure if there is a difference.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/summary.aspx

The Same Choice of Health Plan Options that Members of Congress Receive: Americans can keep their existing coverage or access the same menu of quality private insurance options that their Members of Congress receive through a new Health Choices Menu, established without any new bureaucracy as part of the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program (FEHBP). In addition to the broad array of private options that Americans can choose from, they will be offered the choice of a public plan option similar to Medicare.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

Comprehensive benefits. The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.

...
Easy enrollment. The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage.

[Submariner]

17. In the Donut Hole

Romney's crap plan here in Mass wants to clip me for $4000/yr with a $4000/yr deductible. It is mandated by imposing a fine on the annual tax form. The Clinton dynasty, who are eyeball deep in insurance company bribes/campaign contributions, wants to garnish wages. Great republican model health care scams.

My solution in Mass. is to stop filing state income tax returns. So now the state not only doesn't get the health care scam fine, now they don't get all the taxes. The gawd damned govt is putting me in a position of having to break the tax laws to avoid taking my money in fines. I can apply that fine money to a couple of blood tests and office visits per year.

Screw the Romney/Hillary plan.

[Selatius]

18. I heard California came closest to passing non-profit single-payer health insurance.

The only roadblock to it passing was that Arnold vetoed the plan to protect health insurance companies that would've been driven out of California completely.

[IronLionZion]

22. That's why it's important to have Democrats in office

especially the white house. When our legislators pass something good, we need someone who will sign it into law. Damn, I wish California would have gotten single-payer. Once the biggest and most diverse state proves it can work, then the rest of the country will follow more easily.

We need to build up that popular support.

[OzarkDem]

5. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater

Its completely unacceptable for Obama to destroy health care reform (including his own plan) by using GOP talking points to criticize. Using Harry & Louise talking points not only hurts Clinton's plan, it hurts Obama's own. The only plans that win with these tactics are the GOP ones. Apparently those are the ones Obama prefers.

[BootinUp]

8. Why dont you pass that on to Obama, ask him to cut the

right wing attacks on the future of Universal Healthcare.

How can anyone say that there is not a huge difference between requiring everyone to participate and not requiring it.

One forces the shared responsiblity to make the system work, the other is a crap shoot.

[flpoljunkie]

9. Read what Senator Ted Kennedy has to say on the matter. "Elect Obama and we will get there."

"It's the passion of my life, universal comprehensive health care, and I wouldn't support Barack Obama unless I was absolutely convinced that he was for universal comprehensive health care as well," Kennedy said in a television interview. "I've tried for 38 years to get the universal comprehensive health care. I've supported 12 different proposals to try to get there. Elect Barack Obama and we will get there."

[Mass]

10. Not because the plan is superior. Because he can negotiate better.

My point exactly.

Time to cutting the spin on issues and start focusing on good governance. Who better than Kennedy knows what it takes to get a coalition to pass something useful.

[cooolandrew]

15. Well done. Tremendous post. k&R!!

[LWolf]

20. The truth is that neither plan is true universal health care,

and that both sides trying to spin their plans that way are dishonest.

True universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care is on the table: HR 676.

Any candidate who wants to win on the health care issue should be endorsing it, instead of pushing their own corporate-insurance-friendly, Orwellian excuse for health "care."

[midnight]

21. We need to ask ourselves one question. Why we are subsidizing the

millionairs in congress with cheney care, if they will not extend to the American population equal medical treatment.