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I just saw an ad where Obama claims republicans will 'join him' on healthcare

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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:59 AM
Original message
I just saw an ad where Obama claims republicans will 'join him' on healthcare
How many times will Democrats fall for this line of crap? Why is Obama running on this line of obvious BS?

Apparently this is how he lures the younger crowd who don't remember much before Bush?

Pelosi fell for this 'reach across the aisle' line, how is that working out by the way? How many filibusters have the republicans done in the last year?

Republicans don't do unity, they never have and they never will, and pushing this false hope on younger voters is deceitful.

They say the definition of insanity is endlessly repeating the same mistake, over and over, always expecting a different result.

If Obama gets the nod, his supporters will be in for a huge shock because he will be swift boated like no man before him and it will be all about race and religion. They will stand silent and shell shocked with their half full glass of kool-aid in their hand.

I do believe that the Democrats will win, regardless of who is the nominee, but this is intentionally misleading.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. There's a generation that doesn't remember the Hunting of the Prez
And thinks we brought it on ourselves. Sad, but it's natural.
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LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Yep ... read this article and weep...
Here's a link to an interesting article in today's Post. It's jam-packed with info on the younger voters, and what it says -- if accurate -- illustrates just how far from reality these folks are (though the author sees what'd I'd call failings as positives because it looks like the ideal is one big Facebook community). Here's an excerpt:

Millennials' political style is also similar to the GI generation's. They aren't confrontational or combative, the way boomers (whose generational mantra was "Don't trust anyone over 30") have been. Nor does the millennials' rhetoric reflect the cynicism and alienation of Generation X, whose philosophy is, "Life sucks, and then you die." Instead, their political style reflects their generation's constant interaction with hundreds, if not thousands, of "friends" on MySpace or Facebook, about any and all subjects, increasingly including politics. Since they started watching "Barney" as toddlers, the millennials have learned to be concerned for the welfare of everyone in the group and to try to find consensus, "win-win" solutions to any problem. The result is a collegial approach that attracts millennials to candidates who seek to unify the country and heal the nation's divisions.

Unlike the young baby boomers, millennials want to strengthen the political system, not tear it down. According to a study last year by the Pew Research Center, most millennials (64 percent) disagree that the federal government is wasteful and inefficient, while most older Americans (58 percent) think it is. A 2006 survey by Frank N. Magid Associates indicated that millennials are more likely than older generations to believe that politicians care what people think and are more concerned with the good of the country than of their political party.

It also showed that millennials, more than their elders, believe that U.S. political institutions will deal effectively with concerns the nation will face in the future.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/01/AR2008020102826.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. "The Pollyanna Generation" (n/t)
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. "You kids get off my yard"
Times are changing; lead, follow, or get out of the way.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
68. Lead, follow, or get out of the way, but dont mislead
and dont march people off the cliff of reality
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. I'm an X'er and that kind of thing encourages me
I mean, let's face it, the older generation has completely screwed up everything, and I mean everything.

Frankly I don't care what sage advice any of you feel like offering us near and under 30 because you haven't managed to get much right yet. These younger people seem to have found a new way to deal with one another and frankly it's a lot better than what you guys spent the last 30 years doing once you took over.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Do tell. What is your better way to take care of things?
You young folks are short on those details.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. Pass the pipe around please. n/t
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LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
52. Here's the problem, X'er...
The House and Senate is made up of folks from anything but your generation. A president waltzing in, wanting to make nice with them, is going to get him (or her) well-acquainted with a brick wall.

Your comment is history repeating itself. It's where I was in the '60s, so I can appreciate the sentiment.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. *shrug* fair enough
Here's hoping our endgame works out better than y'all's did.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #56
69. I doubt it will. You guys are a flash in pan.
Here today. Gone tomorrow. Your generation never gets involved in any issues. This election is like Super Bowl Sunday. When it is over so will you.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. isn't that the truth
last week, out here in the real world, I had an Obama supporter tell me - "I'm sick and tired of the fucking Clintons. All those scandals and shit."

sigh....
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. How is Hillary anything other than doing the same thing over
and over again-?

And is this not insane?


Think about this- really think, don't just react. What does Hillary offer us, except more of the same?


peace~
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Hillary isnt running on a delusion of unity
For all of her faults, at least she is realistic where republicans are concerned.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. unity is no 'delusion'- if you really believe it is, then you are
never going to know anything better than what we have now.

And THAT isn't ok- not for me, or for the future of America.

The Democratic party is not the party of "them-vs-us" it IS the party of "we".



Democratic Party Platform of 1964

One Nation, One People
America is One Nation, One People. The welfare, progress, security and survival of each of us reside in the common good—the sharing of responsibilities as well as benefits by all our people.

Democracy in America rests on the confidence that people can be trusted with freedom. It comes from the connection that we will find in freedom a unity of purpose stronger than all our differences.

We have drawn upon that unity when the forces of ignorance, hate, and fear fired an assassin's bullet at the nation's heart, incited violence in our land, and attacked the outposts of freedom around the world.

Because of this unity, those who traffic in fear, hate, falsehood, and violence have failed to undermine our people's deep love of truth and quiet faith in freedom.

Our program for the future is to make the national purpose—the human purpose of us all—fulfill our individual needs.

Accordingly, we offer this platform as a covenant of unity.

We invite all to join us who believe that narrow partisanship takes too small account of the size of our task, the penalties for failure and the boundless rewards to all our people for success.

We offer as the goal of this covenant peace for all nations and freedom for all peoples.

Peace

Peace should be the first concern of all governments as it is the prayer of all men.

At the start of the third decade of the nuclear age, the preservation of peace requires the strength to wage war and the wisdom to avoid it. The search for peace requires the utmost intelligence, the clearest vision, and a strong sense of reality.

Because for four years our nation has patiently demonstrated these qualities and persistently used them, the world is closer to peace today than it was in 1960.

In 1960, freedom was on the defensive. The Communists—doubting both our strength and our will to use it—pressed forward in Southeast Asia, Latin America, Central Africa and Berlin.

President Kennedy and Vice President Johnson set out to remove any question of our power or our will. In the Cuban crisis of 1962 the Communist offensive shattered on the rock of President Kennedy's determination—and our ability—to defend the peace.

Two years later, President Johnson responded to another Communist challenge, this time in the Gulf of Tonkin. Once again power exercised with restraint repulsed Communist aggression and strengthened the cause of freedom.

Responsible leadership, unafraid but refusing to take needless risk, has turned the tide in freedom's favor. No nation, old or new, has joined the Communist bloc since Cuba during the preceding Republican Administration. Battered by economic failures, challenged by recent American achievements in space, torn by the Chinese-Russian rift, and faced with American strength and courage—international Communism has lost its unity and momentum.

National Defense

By the end of 1960, military strategy was being shaped by the dictates of arbitrary budget ceilings instead of the real needs of national security. There were, for example, too few ground and air forces to fight limited war, although such wars were a means to continued Communist expansion.

Since then, and at the lowest possible cost, we have created a balanced, versatile, powerful defense establishment, capable of countering aggression across the entire spectrum of conflict, from nuclear confrontation to guerrilla subversion.

We have increased our intercontinental ballistic missiles and Polaris missiles from fewer than 100 to more than 1,000, more than four times the force of the Soviet Union. We have increased the number of combat ready divisions from 11 to 16.

Until such time as there can be an enforceable treaty providing for inspected and verified disarmament, we must, and we will, maintain our military strength, as the sword and shield of freedom and the guarantor of peace.

Specifically, we must and we will:

Continue the overwhelming supremacy of our Strategic Nuclear Forces.

Strengthen further our forces for discouraging limited wars and fighting subversion.

Maintain the world's largest research and development effort, which has initiated more than 200 new programs since 1961, to ensure continued American leadership in weapons systems and equipment.

Continue the nationwide Civil Defense program as an important part of our national security.

Pursue our examination of the Selective Service program to make certain that it is continued only as long as it is necessary and that we meet our military manpower needs without social or economic injustice.

Attract to the military services the highest caliber of career men and women and make certain they are adequately paid and adequately housed.

Maintain our Cost Reduction Program, to ensure a dollar's worth of defense for every dollar spent, and minimize the disruptive effects of changes in defense spending.

Building the Peace

As citizens of the United States, we are determined that it be the most powerful nation on earth.

As citizens of the world, we insist that this power be exercised with the utmost responsibility.

Control of the use of nuclear weapons must remain solely with the highest elected official in the country—the President of the United States.

Through our policy of never negotiating from fear but never fearing to negotiate, we are slowly but surely approaching the point where effective international agreements providing for inspection and control can begin to lift the crushing burden of armaments off the backs of the people of the world.

In the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, signed now by over 100 nations, we have written our commitment to limitations on the arms race, consistent with our security. Reduced production of nuclear materials for weapons purposes has been announced and nuclear weapons have been barred from outer space.

Already the air we and our children breathe is freer of nuclear contamination.

We are determined to continue all-out efforts through fully-enforceable measures to halt and reverse the arms race and bring to an end the era of nuclear terror.

We will maintain our solemn commitment to the United Nations, with its constituent agencies, working to strengthen it as a more effective instrument for peace, for preventing or resolving international disputes, and for building free nations through economic, technical, and cultural development. We continue to oppose the admission of Red China to the United Nations.

We believe in increased partnership with our friends and associates in the community which spans the North Atlantic. In every possible way we will work to strengthen our ties and increase our cooperation, building always more firmly on the sure foundation of the NATO treaty.

We pledge unflagging devotion to our commitments to freedom from Berlin to South Vietnam. We will:

Help the people of developing nations in Asia, Africa and Latin America raise their standards of living and create conditions in which freedom and independence can flourish.

Place increased priority on private enterprise and development loans as we continue to improve our mutual assistance programs.

Work for the attainment of peace in the Near East as an urgent goal, using our best efforts to prevent a military unbalance, to encourage arms reductions and the use of national resources for internal development and to encourage the re-settlement of Arab refugees in lands where there is room and opportunity. The problems of political adjustment between Israel and the Arab countries can and must be peacefully resolved and the territorial integrity of every nation respected.

Support the partnership of free American Republics in the Alliance for Progress.

Move actively to carry out the Resolution of the Organization of American States to further isolate Castroism and speed the restoration of freedom and responsibility in Cuba.

Support our friends in and around the rim of the Pacific, and encourage a growing understanding among peoples, expansion of cultural exchanges, and strengthening of ties.

Oppose aggression and the use of force or the threat of force against any nation.

Encourage by all peaceful means the growing independence of the captive peoples living under Communism and hasten the day that Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Estonia, Hungary, Latavia, Lithuania, Poland, Rumania and the other captive nations will achieve full freedom and self-determination. We deplore Communist oppression of Jews and other minorities.

Encourage expansion of our economic ties with other nations of the world and eliminate unjustifiable tariff and non-tariff barriers, under authority of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962. Expand the Peace Corps.

Use even more of our Food for Peace.

The Conquest of Space

In four vigorous years we have moved to the forefront of space exploration. The United States must never again settle for second place in the race for tomorrow's frontiers.

We will continue the rapid development of space technology for peaceful uses.

We will encourage private industry to increase its efforts in space research.

We will continue to ensure that any race in space is won for freedom and for peace.

The Leadership We Offer

The complications and dangers in our restless, constantly changing world require of us consummate understanding and experience. One rash act, one thoughtless decision, one unchecked reaction—and cities could become smoldering ruins and farms parched wasteland.

The leadership we offer has already been tested in the crucible of crisis and challenge. To this Nation and to all the world we reaffirm President Johnson's resolve to "... use every resource at the command of the Government. . . and the people . . . to find the road to peace."

We offer this platform as a guide for that journey.

Freedom and Well Being

There can be full freedom only when all of our people have opportunity for education to the full extent of their ability to learn, followed by the opportunity to employ their learning in the creation of something of value to themselves and to the nation.

The Individual

Our task is to make the national purpose serve the human purpose: that every person shall have the opportunity to become all that he or she is capable of becoming.

We believe that knowledge is essential to individual freedom and to the conduct of a free society. We believe that education is the surest and most profitable investment a nation can make.

Regardless of family financial status, therefore, education should be open to every boy or girl in America up to the highest level which he or she is able to master.

In an economy which will offer fewer and fewer places for the unskilled, there must be a wide variety of educational opportunities so that every young American, on leaving school, will have acquired the training to take a useful and rewarding place in our society.

It is increasingly clear that more of our educational resources must be directed to pre-school training as well as to junior college, college and post-graduate study.

The demands on the already inadequate sources of state and local revenues place a serious limitation on education. New methods of financial aid must be explored, including the channeling of federally collected revenues to all levels of education, and, to the extent permitted by the Constitution, to all schools. Only in this way can our educational programs achieve excellence throughout the nation, a goal that must be achieved without interfering with local control and direction of education.

In order to insure that all students who can meet the requirements for college entrance can continue their education, we propose an expanded program of public scholarships, guaranteed loans, and work-study grants.

We shall develop the potential of the Armed Forces for training young men who might otherwise be rejected for military service because their work skills are underdeveloped.

The health of the people is important to the strength and purpose of our country and is a proper part of our common concern.

In a nation that lacks neither compassion nor resources, the needless suffering of people who cannot afford adequate medical care is intolerable:

We will continue to fight until we have succeeded in including hospital care for older Americans in the Social Security program, and have insured adequate assistance to those elderly people suffering from mental illness and mental retardation.

We will go forward with research into the causes and cures of disease, accidents, mental illness and mental retardation.

We will further expand our health facilities, especially medical schools, hospitals, and research laboratories.

America's veterans who served their Nation so well must, in turn, be served fairly by a grateful Nation. First-rate hospitals and medical care must be provided veterans with service-connected injuries and disabilities, and their compensation rates must insure an adequate standard of living. The National Service Life Insurance program should be reopened for those who have lost their insurance coverage, and an equitable and just pension system must help meet the need of those disabled veterans and their survivors who require financial assistance.

Democracy of Opportunity

The variety of our people is the source of our strength and ought not to be a cause of disunity or discord. The rights of all our citizens must be protected and all the laws of our land obeyed if America is to he safe for democracy.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 deserves and requires full observance by every American and fair, effective enforcement if there is any default.

Resting upon a national consensus expressed by the overwhelming support of both parties, this new law impairs the rights of no American; it affirms the rights of all Americans. Its purpose is not to divide, but to end division; not to curtail the opportunities of any, but to increase opportunities for all; not to punish, but to promote further our commitment to freedom, the pursuit of justice, and a deeper respect for human dignity.

We reaffirm our belief that lawless disregard for the rights of others is wrong—whether used to deny equal rights or to obtain equal rights.

We cannot and will not tolerate lawlessness. We can and will seek to eliminate its economic and social causes.

True democracy of opportunity will not be served by establishing quotas based on the same false distinctions we seek to erase, nor can the effects of prejudice be neutralized by the expedient of preferential practices.

The immigration laws must be revised to permit families to be reunited, to welcome the persecuted and oppressed, and to eliminate the discriminatory provisions which base admission upon national origins.

We will support legislation to carry forward the progress already made toward full equality of opportunity for women as well as men.

We will strive to eliminate discrimination against older Americans, especially in their employment.

Ending discrimination based on race, age, sex, or national origin demands not only equal opportunity but the opportunity to be equal. We are concerned not only with people's right to be free, but also with their ability to use their freedom. We will:

Carry the War on Poverty forward as a total war against the causes of human want.

Move forward with programs to restore those areas, such as Appalachia, which the Nation's progress has by-passed.

Help the physically handicapped and mentally disadvantaged develop to the full limit of their capabilities.

Enhance the security of older Americans by encouraging private retirement and welfare programs, offering opportunities like those provided for the young under the Economic Opportunities Act of 1964, and expanding decent housing which older citizens can afford.

Assist our Indian people to improve their standard of living and attain self-sufficiency, the privileges of equal citizenship, and full participation in American life.

The Social Security program, initiated and developed under the National leadership of the Democratic Party and in the face of ceaseless partisan opposition, contributes greatly to the strength of the Nation. We must insure that those who have contributed to the system shall share in the steady increase in our standard of living by adjusting benefit levels.

We hold firmly to the conviction, long embraced by Democratic Administrations, that the advancing years of life should bring not fear and loneliness, but security, meaning, and satisfaction.

We will encourage further support for the arts, giving people a better chance to use increased leisure and recognizing that the achievements of art are an index of the greatness of a civilization.

We will encourage the advance of science and technology—for its material rewards, and for its contribution to an understanding of the universe and ourselves.

The Economy

The American free enterprise system is one of the great achievements of the human mind and spirit. It has developed by a combination of the energetic efforts of working men and women, bold private initiative, the profit motive and wise public policy, until it is now the productive marvel of mankind.

In spite of this, at the outset of 1961, America was in the depths of the fourth postwar recession.

Since then, in 42 months of uninterrupted expansion under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson, we have achieved the longest and strongest peace-time prosperity in modern history:

Almost four million jobs have been added to the economy—almost 1 1/2 million since last December.

Workers' earnings and corporate profits are at the highest level in history.

Prices have been more stable than in any other industrial nation in the free world.

This did not just happen. It has come about because we have wisely and prudently used our increasing understanding of how the economy works.

It is the national purpose, and our commitment, to continue this expansion of the American economy toward its potential, without a recession, with continued stability, and with an extension of the benefits of this growth and prosperity to those who have not fully shared in them.

This will require continuation of flexible and innovative fiscal, monetary, and debt management policies, recognizing the importance of low interest rates.

We will seek further tax reduction—and in the process we need to remove inequities in our present tax laws. In particular we should carefully review all our excise taxes and eliminate those that are obsolete. Consideration should be given to the development of fiscal policies which would provide revenue sources to hard-pressed state and local governments to assist them with their responsibilities.

Every penny of Federal spending must be accounted for in terms of the strictest economy, efficiency and integrity. We pledge to continue a frugal government, getting a dollar's value for a dollar spent, and a government worthy of the citizen's confidence.

Our goal is a balanced budget in a balanced economy.

Our enviable record of price stability must be maintained—through sound fiscal and monetary policies and the encouragement of responsible private wage and price policies. Stability is essential to protect our citizens—particularly the retired and handicapped—from the ravages of inflation. It is also essential to maintain confidence in the American dollar; this confidence has been restored in the past four years through sound policies.

Radical changes in technology and automation contribute to increased productivity and a higher standard of living. They must not penalize the few while benefiting the many. We maintain that any man or woman displaced by a machine or by technological change should have the opportunity, without penalty, to another job. Our common responsibility is to see that this right is fulfilled.

Full employment is an end in itself and must be insisted upon as a priority objective.

It is the national purpose, and our commitment, that every man or woman who is willing and able to work is entitled to a job and to a fair wage for doing it.

The coverage of the Fair Labor Standards Act must be extended to all workers employed in industries affecting interstate commerce, and the minimum wage level and coverage increased to assure those at the bottom of the economic scale a fairer share in the benefits of an ever-rising standard of American living.

Overtime payment requirements must be increased to assure maximum employment consistent with business efficiency. The matter of the length of work periods should be given continuing consideration.

The unemployment insurance program must be basically revised to meet the needs of the unemployed and of the economy, and to assure that this program meets the standards the nation's experience dictates.

Agricultural and migratory workers must be given legal protection and economic encouragement.

We must develop fully our most precious resource—our manpower. Training and retraining programs must be expanded. A broad-gauge manpower program must be developed which will not only satisfy the needs of the economy but will also give work its maximum meaning in the pattern of human life.

We will stimulate as well as protect small business, the seedbed of free enterprise and a major source of employment in our economy.

The antitrust laws must be vigorously enforced. Our population, which is growing rapidly and becoming increasingly mobile, and our expanding economy are placing greater demands upon our transportation system than ever before. We must have fast, safe, and economic modes of transportation. Each mode should be encouraged to develop in accordance with its maximum utility, available at the lowest cost under the principles of fair competition. A strong and efficient American Flag merchant marine is essential to peace-time commerce and defense emergencies.

The industrial democracy of free, private collective bargaining and the security of American trade unions must be strengthened by repealing Section 14(b) of the Taft-Hartley Act. The present inequitable restrictions on the right to organize and to strike and picket peaceably must also be eliminated.

In order to protect the hard earned dollars of American consumers, as well as promote their basic consumer rights, we will make full use of existing authority, and continue to promote efforts on behalf of consumers by industry, voluntary organizations, and state and local governments. Where protection is essential, we will enact legislation to protect the safety of consumers and to provide them with essential information. We will continue to insist that our drugs and medicines are safe and effective, that our food and cosmetics are free from harm, that merchandise is labeled and packaged honestly and that the true cost of credit is disclosed.

It is the national purpose, and our commitment to increase the freedom and effectiveness of the essential private forces and processes in the economy.

.....................................................................................>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>contd.




Unity and the ability to work together is NOT a partisan or foolish goal- It is an essential ability. An essential part of any real platform.

Educate yourself-

peace~
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MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. hey let me know how many repukes
you get to sign off on that statement. I bet they are just waiting in line to back those principles.

:crazy:
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. what principals do you say "we"- Democrats sign off on?
the "if yer not with us yer with the terrarists" bullshit?

See how far that mentality has gotten us.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result????-

time to rethink your concepts?

:eyes:


peace~
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MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Nope. In my 40 some years
the other side has NEVER been honest or willing to work together. Even though they always say they will "reach across the aisle" So back in your face. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results, like repukes will actually EVER work in a non-partisan way. Now that is insanity.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. in my 50 some years I've come to see
that people are usually their own worst enemies.

Your kind of thinking leaves mankind extinct. If you aren't willing to take chances- you aren't going to make progress. There has NOT been a movement like the one that is happening around Obama since RFK- I remember the hopelessness that Bobby's murder blanketed us all in. No candidate since, has mobilized the electorate like this. Maybe hope is just too frightening for you- it is not easy for me either. But the 'status-quo' is not something we can live with any longer.

If you can't embrace hope- I understand- But don't expect the country to stay in the rut with you. Our party has the chance to help really change America in a positive way- for all of us.


Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.


peace~
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MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. Embrace hope?
What the hell? I have hope that one day we can put repukes in re-education camps. Until then i guess it is my job to protect the naive from destroying themselves.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. you've fallen into the abyss.
But I believe you will have an opportunity to climb out- soon.

take care-

peace~
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. Yikes
I have hope that one day we can put repukes in re-education camps.

Frankly, you're part of the problem, then.
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MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. Frankly, Stop calling me Frank. n/t
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Tell me how many republcans were racing across the aisle to make SCHIP happen.
You kids are not very smart. imo
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. who is steering the ship right now?
"yer either with them or yer with the terrarists"-

We are well schooled in the leadership of division.

Time for a change.


Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.


peace~
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
60. and not to mention--getting out of Iraq has failed--the 'reaching' did not and will not work
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. I have educated myself
by following what the republicans have done for the last 30 years.

The definition of insanity is continually repeating the same mistake, always expecting a different result.

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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
44. Get a pulpit. n/t
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
48. I hate that 'unity' crap...
as if black and white, Jewish and Arab and Christian, rich and poor, right and left...could ever possibly seek a common denominator!! Delusional ideals that should be avoided at all cost!!

"What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists, is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents."-- Robert F. Kennedy


"What we need in the United States is not division. What we need in the United States is not hatred. What we need in the United States is not violence or lawlessness, but love and wisdom and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country whether they be white or they be black."
Robert F. Kennedy, 1925-1968


"Whoever seeks to set one nationality against another, seeks to degrade all nationalities...Whoever seeks to set one religion against another, seeks to destroy all religion...Whoever seeks to set one race against another seeks to enslave all races....We are a nation of many nationalities, many races, many religions, bound together by a single unity..
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1882-1945

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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. hey thanks- You may say that we're dreamers- but we're not
the only ones-

I hope some day they'll join us-


.........


I gotta get out of this place-

it is not healthy.

Thanks for the great quotes.

peace~
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #51
66. I think of it as practice...
I think if 'we', are to accomplish anything the first thing that has to go is stertypical characterizations that are foisted upon our society. If political will comes from the bottom up, this is as good of a place as any to start
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Obama offers more of the same. Just re-packaged all fancy like. Peal away the fresh coating and
you'll be in for a shock.
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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
49. If he believes rep.will help in with health care....Then he has a rude awakening
Who in the heck does he thinks has helped us with health care, remember WW11 I do. President Truman wanted a national health program, like Germany and France was going to start, (yes way back then dem. were fighting for health care) and let me inform you young Obama fans that there has never ben a darn republican that wouldn't stomp health care in the bud if Obama pushed it....WAKE UP YOU YOUNG PEOPLE and read the history book on the republican party and it part in stopping it in it tracks, Who in the hell do you think stopped Hillary's program ,Republican party and corporations like ins,and other health related corporations. For many years the American Medical Association fought any national health program brought about. However the American Medical Association is now in favor.
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. The only times that Republicans have "Reached across the Aisle" is....
..to slap us Democrats upside the face.
I like Obama...but he should know better
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magatte Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. He is not say the Congress Republicans will join him, but that republicans on the streets will...
He says that he will appeal to the ordinary citizen who has been 'tagged' republican, and get him on board to solving this issues. This will in turn force the hand on the Republicans in Congress.
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LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. The millions on the street protesting the war saw how effective they can be.
The power is in Congress, as we've all seen. Obama needs to get real.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. Republicans on the streets will join him?
OMGG this is so irrational and deluded....driiiink the kool-aid....its goooood for yoou!
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LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
53. Exactly. That's my point.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. He's not talking about current Congressmen
How many times do people have to have that pointed out to them? He's not talking about the Republican political leaders right now, he's talking about Republican voters.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R because you deal in reality, even though some won't like to hear it. n/t
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magatte Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. Once again, he is not talking about compromise across tha aisle, but of building a NEW majority.
Using republican VOTERS to push those Republicans in congress our way.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
45. To you actually belive that clap trap? n/t
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
64. There is no basis for it
It is pure fantasy land, you are drunk on slogans
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. They have to blame the Clintons for the divisiveness of the nineties
for their argument to work. It's sad and pathetic because that premise is utterly false.

It will be quite a shock indeed when they wake up from this infatuation. They have NO idea the attacks that are waiting in the wings should Obama get the nomination.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. Puke - whatever. The only healthcare option the GOP will
go along with is taking away the laws that require ER docs to treat anyone regardless of need.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
13. Republicans like the ...
...go f*ck yourself and die healthcare plan. (they call that "pro-life")

As for Obama's plan, that applies to at least 15 million people in his plan right off the bat.

I'm not surprised Republicans might like it.

It's the NON-healthcare plan healthcare plan. Just the way they like it.
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Republicans joining in on Universal (or mostly Universal) coverage?? LMAO I almost fell off the chair reading this. Like that will ever happen. Very bad to mislead our younger voters, very very bad. Cause that optimism will sour to cynicism very quickly :(
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Huh?
When polled, something like 85% of Americans want some kind of universal access to health care.

85% will include a lot of the country's Republicans.
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Don't act so surprised and don't trust that %....This will be a HUGE battle
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 11:41 AM by jzodda
and when push comes to shove don't think for a minute the conservative movement is going to take this sitting down. That 85% will drop once the millions and millions of dollars in scary ads start pouring in just like before. Harry and Lousise will be on TV every 10 minutes.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Which is why, as keeps being pointed out over and over...
...Obama is not talking about forging a consensus with the current Republican members of Congress, he's talking about forging a consensus with disaffected Republican voters. Some Congresscritters will follow; others will be replaced.

It's like what Reagan did: he didn't reach out to Democratic Congressmen who then pulled their voters with them; he made a connection with Democratic voters, who pulled their Congressmen to the right.
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. We shall see, hope your right
It will be a dirty nasty fight.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
23. Forget remembering the past, how about grasping the present? Busco?
remember those people and their cronies?
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
28. The same posters who have
demonized Pelosi and Reid for reaching across the aisle with no results, now applaud Obama's pitch to do the same thing.
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Yep, kinda of strange if you ask me...n/t
:shrug:
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
58. If you don't see the difference I'm not sure I can explain it to you
Pelosi and Reid are trying to "reach across" from the top; to compromise with Republican leaders without first making a connection to Republican voters. It's not so much that I'm against it as a bad idea, it's just pointless.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
33. I saw a Clinton ad where some guy is jumping out of a plane
While Her Inevitableness intones about how we can't take chances on this crucial election.

It's really dumb. She should fire her entire campaign if she squeaks out a primary win.
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kelligesq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
34. Yeah sure. They'll care enough to screw the HMO's n give Americans good
health care.

I'd say Obama is living in dreamland, but he isn't...this isn't republican light
even -it's Joe Lieberman's mole.

He's telling straight out that he's going to bring republicans into his administration... The dems already vote with the republicans...do you see them
impeaching boooooosh and darth vader? Noooo.

United States of Corporations
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. OMG...
I hadn't even thought about the Lieberman/Mentor/Obama connection! Holy crap. A Lieberman Mole. I need to think about this! It really never occurred to me that that is what could be going on here! Anyone willing to let repukes be a part of their administration, IS NOT playing with a full deck, after what they have done to our country.

Thanks for the food for thought.:)
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
36. I disagree. I think there's more chance that they will go along with him
than anything she puts forward. Remember, in order to pressure Congress to pass
any of your agenda, you have to have the public behind you. I don't think Hillary can get the kind of support that
Obama can.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. This isnt an Obama vs Hillary issue
This is an Obama vs reality issue
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Well, I think the public is clamoring for health care and the Repubs
don't want to look like the bad guys. I'm hoping they'll be a smaller minority
after November anyway.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
61. Yep
I agree. The old ways aren't working. FDR, JFK, etc galvanized the people. It's the only hope of really getting anything done. Public opinion is where this war is fought. Your oponents know it... you should too.

And if his transparency reforms go through that would go a long way towards making change happen.

Don't play their game by their rules.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. His transparency reforms are crucial to me
His ethics reform legislation was outstanding (though he's the first to admit it needs to be made stronger). And his transparency and openness in contracting proposals will, I think, have a really positive effect in reducing waste and fraud.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
38. Barack is one senator who has had bi-partisan success.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
46. They will join Obama alright - TO SHRED IT!
He is such a joke.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
55. Harry and Louise, anyone?
fuck the republicans. God, why does he think they will be willing to work on this issue. GRRRRRRRRR!

I want to support him but his crap is ridiculous.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
59. Must read quote from Washington Monthly
Which I cite here: http://www.correntewire.com/the_sorry_news_sorry_about_bipartisanship

In an essential 2004 Washington Monthly column, Paul Glastris described how Bill Kristol and the Contract-on-America GOP Congress ensured that millions of Americans — among other things — would be denied access to health care:

“Kristol,” he wrote, “urged in a series of influential memos that the GOP oppose the Clinton plan ‘sight unseen,’ and commit to sinking whatever plan was devised—on the grounds that successful passage of any plan would keep the Democratic Party in power.”
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
65. Many Dems fell for the first Harry and Louse ad--and now DU has many Obamacampers
shouting its glory.


How many times will Democrats fall for this line of crap? Why is Obama running on this line of obvious BS?
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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
67. the democratic party is the party of idealists
we have so much hope for goodness in people we want to believe it is true, especially the young...

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