My petty gripe with Obama - turns out more than me see it, but no one wants to talk about it ......

[Stinky The Clown]

..... and that's his imitation black preacher speaking cadence.

This came up in a wide ranging series of political conversations yesterday with a mixed political crowd before the Stupor Bowl. Someone else mentioned it first. I had to agree that I was bnthered by it too, but had never voiced that until now.

When one hears Obama speaking one on one with a talking head, he sounds like he sounds. Perfectly normal, with no affectation.

When he gives speeches, however, he often uses an obviously affected style and cadence. Gs get dropped, and a sort of 'accent' get pressed into service. "Kennedy", just by way of example, has become "Kennedeh". Its that false 'lazy speak' thing. An attempt at being colloquial and less 'professiorial'? I dunno, but for me, I like the pure unplugged Obama best.

There's nothing inherently wrong with this whole thing he does. But it rings flat. And subconsciously, it causes one to question his overall sincerity. Obama is a gifted orator. He does himself a disservice with the affectations.

Before you jump down my throat, I said the same damned thing abut Clinton (except for the 'gifted orator' part) when she did the very same "black preacher" thing some months ago. It was phony and pandering on her and it is just phony on him.

And yeah ..... I know Obama is a black man. And yeah ...... I know this is a petty issue. But elections can turn on less.

[scheming daemons]

1. H2S hates black preachers....

...just kidding, dude.

[goldcanyonaz]

2. He's a great speaker, but a very poor debater.

[scheming daemons]

5. But he won or tied the debate on Thursday in just about every poll....

...so what's that say about Hillary?

The only "poll" that Hillary won after the debate was the 60-40 split among the 30 people that CNN polled. EVERYWHERE else, it was an Obama win or tie.

[Indenturedebtor]

8. What are you kidding me?

Remember HRC's Carolina Bump? :rolleyes:

Yeah the preachy thing bugs me as well... but it works :shrug:

Giving a speech inherently involves putting on a speech face. Maybe that method of speaking has had the most impact on him emotionally so he naturally falls into that.

You know what bugs me about HRC's speeches? She talks about Universal Healthcare out of one side of her mouth and kisses Ins companies out of the other. Follow the money.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. Your post would be much better without the ........

...... first and last paragraphs. They undermine your otherwise spot on and valuable point.

[supernova]

3. Faux Southern

is what I call it.

Drives me nuts. Just be yourself. I'd appreciate it a lot more, from both Hillary and Barack.

[DURHAM D]

7. I call it "Faux Pulpit" eom

[stillcool]

4. Very disturbing ...

My speech is always the same. Whether I'm speaking on the phone, to a group, or to my husband. I believe your onto something.

[Indenturedebtor]

10. Mine isn't

And unless I'm talking to my boss I always say what I think hehe. My laugh will also change when I hang out with someone for awhile... When I put on a suit I speak differently than when I'm wearing flip flops and a dirty t-shirt.

According to Psychology people naturally act differently in different situations, and form habits based on expectations. Sometimes it's intentional but often times it's not. All candidates have done this to an extent.

[stillcool]

12. I lived in Boston...

for five years and my accent changed. I lived in Florida for five years and my accent changed. Whenever I get around Southerner's my accent is affected...and the same thing happens when I hang out with Bostonians. Crazy...I must be a total fake.

[Dogmudgeon]

6. But Hillary cried!

--p!

[Bread and Circus]

11. have you ever heard of Kentucky Fried Hillary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxTnHx5qVQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu9TQq0C3Ac

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Yes. And I cited that and criticized her for it in the OP

Anything else?

[Bread and Circus]

48. I agree Obama doesn't need to do this, he's inspiring enough even

without the "Southern Preacher" affectation. It's a minor style thing imo so I don't get too worked up for it.

[Stinky The Clown]

63. Yes, he could be seen as inspiring with or without it

I am just as sure that to some listeners, this is a total non-issue - or maybe even endearing. And that's fine.

My point was that little things like this can turn elections. Not that it will. Just that it could. I had never mentioned it before Instead, I questioned my own standards and maybe prejudices in being sensitive to it. Maybe it was just me and I had a problem with him. But when I heard a surpizing number of others agree about it when someone brought it up, it occurred to me that it wasn't just me.

Again, I'm not saying this is a major issue. Its not. Or at least it shouldn't be.

[faithfulcitizen]

23. oh my, that's awful. nt

[helderheid]

52. oh my EARS....

[Big Blue Marble]

13. I love his cadence.

Many are inspired by his speeches, hearten by his words, and moved by his dream for our country.

Did MLK's speaking style bother you too?

[jkshaw]

17. I love his cadence, too, Big Blue

I've been listening to him for a couple of years now and I think it's natural.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. No. MLK's speeches were musical

He spoke the way he spoke and never much changed.

Obama speaks noticeably different in different situations.

[KittyWampus]

30. So do you. You're just not self aware enough to recognize it or honest enough to admit it.

[Stinky The Clown]

35. Dr Frist? Is that you?

Wow. What sage words of wisdom.

Do I call you Dr Frist or Obi Won?

[Big Blue Marble]

36. And that is bad, why?

I speak much differently in different situations as well. Don't you?

[Stinky The Clown]

37. Where did I say MLK's speech patterns wer bad?

You're kidding, right?

[frazzled]

14. I distrust him because he's left-handed

Just joking, but I have noticed (from seeing him take notes during debates) that he is indeed left-handed, which is kind of rare probably for a president. Have there been others?

Your problem with his speaking style is okay. These are the kinds of things that can sway us, and I understand it. It doesn't bother me, because I know many people who have different registers of speaking for different situations. I find it less a southern affectation than black affectation; and to tell the truth, it's hard to hang in the south side of Chicago and not adopt some inflections of black speech in certain situations, even if you are a U of C student or professor! But I understand if this grates on you: John Edwards's southern twang was like nails on a chalkboard to me, and he didn't have any other register. It's unfair, I acknowledge, but these things do influence.

[tularetom]

15. For seven years we've had a Yale grad trying to sound like a hick

in the white house. It's sort of insulting that politicians think we're so dumb we will only listen to them if they sound dumb too.

But actually there's something to it. People seem to resent those who talk like they have a brain in their head. So the politicians dumb down their speech to avoid being labelled pointy headed intellectuals.

Hillary's a lot worse than Obama at this condescending tactic, IMO.

[lurky]

25. I've always guessed * talked like Maj. Winchester from MASH

while in private. I mean, he was born in Greenwich, CT, spent his youth at Phillips Andover, then went to Yale and Harvard. His Texas accent just sounds phony and fake, like what a Yalie would imagine a Texan to sound like.

[FrenchieCat]

16. That's how many Black folks talk when giving speeches...from sea to shining sea......

just like many White people don't....no matter where they are from.

Obama is after all a Black person....and so it goes.

It is a gift that Black folks are more prone to having; a natural ear for lyrical rythm (not to say that no White Folks have it, cause there are many who do).

I am mixed as is OBama, and I am also a dynamic Public speaker (if I have to say so myself).

If we end up with a Black President, that will be one of the quirks.

Too bad you don't like it. More people do than don't.

Personally, I prefer Obama's speaking style to Hillary's....by like, a thousand miles!

[Jed Dilligan]

22. Good post

[Stinky The Clown]

26. I agree with you ...... mostly

I prefer listening to Obama (in any of his styles) to listening to HRC. Her voice just grates on me. My petty (emphais on the word 'petty') gripe with him is that his vocal affectation changes and the change is jarring.

And as I said in the OP, yeah ..... I know he's a black man. I grew up in a **very** racially diverse area in the northeast. I grew up with black people and heard 'black speech' all my life. I am also aware of some blacks who speak one way with whites or a mixed crowd and another way with blacks or a mixed crowd. I understand all that perhaps better than you might allow me.

What Obama is doing, in my mind, is different. At least to me, it comes off as more calculated.

All that having been said, to me, this really is a petty issue.

[lurky]

19. BC did the white preacher thing.

He would do the cadences and intonations of a minister doing the homily. I remember being a little grossed out by it when I first heard it, but it worked for him.

I think part of what you are saying is that Obama sounds a bit more "Ebonic" when he's speaking to a black audience. I think that's true, but I think that's politics. I'm guessing when Ted Kennedy is meeting with his constituents in South Boston, he turns up the "New England" in his voice.

[calmblueocean]

21. I'm sorry, but F off with your crypto-ebonics talking points.

"I don't like the way he speaks."

Grow up. You don't orate in the same tone you have a conversation in. Make your judgments on the issues and not on superficial meaningless crap like this.

[Stinky The Clown]

27. Thanks for keeping the tone civil ......

..... asshole.

[calmblueocean]

42. I did preface my remarks by apologizing :-)

Seriously, though, you acknowledge your complaint is petty yourself. And that sort of thing does strike me as a gauzy way of calling him out for essentially "talking black" when you think he really should be "talking white". I was too gruff in my response -- it's tense around here lately! -- but it does bother me when I see stuff like this on DU, a place I usually expect to get away from that sort of thing.

I just expect that people here are going to be the ones saying to their friends, "I know he has a little different style than we're used to, but that doesn't bother me" rather than spending several paragraphs castigating him for "dropping his g's" and basically calling him a phony. Can you see what that would make me angry?

Anyway, I snapped. I still don't approve of your post, but I'm sorry for the tone of my own response. Hope this is better.

[Adelante]

24. I asked a friend about this who grew up in Ohio

This friend is supporting Hillary, fwiw. Anyway, I had wondered about the Southern sound I heard coming from Obama at times. I asked this person because I had noticed a Southern softening on and off of his own speech over the years I've known him - he's lived in NYC since the 1980s and sounds like anybody else there except on occasion. My friend claims that Illinois, like Ohio, has a huge Southern influence, not only among blacks but among whites, too. My friend's mother was born in Kentucky and her family migrated to Ohio and he says it's a common pathway in both states. I have no way of judging how correct this assessment is since I've never spent time in the Midwest. Obama, of course, was born and mostly raised in Hawaii, but he has spent his adult life in Illinois, so could be affected in speech patterns. I will also say that I've watched videotapes of John Edwards when he was in the Senate and he sounded nothing like he sounded on the campaign trail in terms of his Southern accent - he sounded relatively accentless, which we might say is an affectation the other way. This is a long way of saying, so what, I guess. For all we know, when he's sitting around his living room Obama sounds more like a preacher man than a media pundit.

[rox63]

28. Isn't Michelle Obama originally from the South?

Perhaps he picked up a bit of her accent over the years? I thought I recalled her saying she was brought up in one of the Carolinas.

[Barack_America]

46. That's a very valid point. African-American speech in general often has a southern...

sound to it, particularly in the vowels. That is just a linguistic fact.

And this is true in northern cities as well.

[TexasObserver]

29. more hyperventilation over nothing

call the waaaaaaaaaaaaambulance

[Stinky The Clown]

31. Where was the hyperventilation?

Breathe into a bag and you'll feel better.

[robbedvoter]

33. You are so in the wrong forum with reasoned comparisons...

This place is way past that point. It's now strictly "rah-rah-rah - screw you if you don't like it!"

[TexasObserver]

39. whatever sparkling water

I'm not wasting any more time reading your posts

[Stinky The Clown]

50. .

Put me on ignore. I'll feel better knowing I don't have to entertain you.

[denem]

32. JFK - Listen to his inteview style

and his soaring speeches. Very different. He went out to inspire, he did.

[CTyankee]

34. Well, it worked for Bush! He put on that phony balony Texas accent

and that work shirt and belt with the big buckle and he was in business with the American public! Everybody (but us) loved it! Nobody said sh*t about it, but us. And now he's president, damnit to hell!

[DemGa]

38. A lot of people are picking up on this apparent act of Obama's

Good to get it out there more.

[Mags]

40. My Husband has said the same thing, that turned his vote.

[calmblueocean]

44. Your husband is that superficial?

I'm sorry, but that's really surprising to me.

[Mags]

58. Heavens No, He thinks Obama is an empty suit, a fake.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

55. Deleted sub-thread

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[Barack_America]

43. How did Obama learn how to give speeches?

Probably through his preachers and civil rights leaders such as MLK.

I don't fault him for picking up their styles.

When I sing (alone, in the shower, lol) I often sing in the style of my favorite singers. Not even intentionally.

I also happen to be one of those people with an ear for accents and will find myself unconsciously changing the way I speak to better match those I'm speaking to. I feel like an ass when I realize I'm doing it. If Obama happens to be another one of those people, I feel his pain.

[cooolandrew]

45. He's being modern how do people think he got the youth vote. New younger voters are important.

[IndieLeft]

47. Yes, you are being petty.

Now I've heard it all. But I didn't expect to hear it here.

[LadyVT]

49. He adopts the speech of those who are listening to him...

It disturbs me, also, because he also adopts the values of his immediate audience (which change depending upon where and to whom he is campaigning)--hence, his huge (for the moment) appeal. Everyone feels represented by him, even if he's representing contradictory things at the same time. There's no THERE there.

[Neecy]

51. I think they both do it

I was listening to a Hillary speech over the weekend (yes, I do watch her events as well, because if she's the nominee I want to be educated on her positions) and she has a habit of dropping the g from her language, like she's down-home regular folk. This annoys me because while I'm certainly regular folk I don't walk around sayin' that I'm goin' to the polls and votin'. She doesn't do this in her Senate speeches, and I find it patronizing.

That said, Obama also changes his cadence and drops his g as well. I don't like that either, but I'm supporting him based on policy and that's it.

[tishaLA]

53. It's called code-switching

and almost all of us do it to one extent or another. When I write on DU, for example, I don't write as I do in my academic life; if I did, people would respond to my posts even less than they do. Similarly, when I am teaching, or talking to my dissertation director, I speak in a different way than I do when I am interacting with people in a bar. People also do this because different kinds of speech (whether speech acts or idioms or whatever) are more effective in different settings.

I don't read code switching as insincere--he did, after all, grow up mostly in Kansas, where dropping the /g/ is hardly uncommon--but that sincerity can have more than one voice, even from one speaker.

[Alexander]

56. At least Obama doesn't put on a fake Southern accent.

Unlike Hillary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIn_z1-Th_M

[LadyVT]

57. Actually, he did.

[BlackVelvet04]

59. Hillary's was an obvious put on and was supposed to be.....

personally I've had all the preaching in the last 7 years that I care to have.

[katty]

60. good,speaker, likes an audience, not a great debater, often

appears to be somewhat insecure.

[Stinky The Clown]

61. I don't get the insecure vibe from him.

I hear things from time to time that may sound a bit naive, but I can't recall feeling he was insecure. I always get a vibe of confidence when he speaks.

[NC_Nurse]

62. It bugged me too. They all tend to get "Southern" and preachy when they

come down here. Shit, I sound less southern than a lot of the candidates do.
I think they like adopt the preachy cadence too. I've heard many of them do it.
Maybe it's a way to mesmerize people. Who knows?
I still like him the best and think he can do great things if we get behind him.
And believe me, I am NOT a fan of religion or religious pandering in any form.
I just let it go this time.