I'm going to come clean: I don't hate Republicans

[Recursion]

I don't even hate all Republican politicians (particularly some local ones).

I think, in general, on political issues, they're wrong about more things than they are right about.

I think their Congressional delegations have, of late, been exceedingly corrupt and mean-spirited.

Obviously, their control of the white house has been a nearly constant fiasco. Guess what? It seems like a large number of Republicans agree with that.

I don't think it's impossible to work with them on issues we agree on. I certainly don't think it's a bad idea to try. And I'm disappointed that for so long nobody in either party has even bothered looking for the places we do agree.

I think there's a broad consensus in America that things are going the wrong way. The economic "growth" of late simply hasn't benefited working people. There's too much corporate influence in government. The situation of the environment is perilous. Small farms and small businesses are having trouble managing in a cutthroat "globalized" economy.

On that last point, we're so convinced we just naturally deserve to be the party of the Working People that we're ignoring the fact that lots of them blame us for NAFTA and frankly they have a point.

I'm sick of seeing my party dismiss Republicans as a lost cause, or refuse to work with them on Issue X because we dislike their stance on Issue Y. I'm sick of the assumption, which I'm seeing explicitly stated here, that politics is a zero-sum game where there's only a victor if there's also a loser. I'm sick, for that matter, of the notion that politics is a "game", something that politicians and pundits do while the rest of us (for the most part) watch.

I don't just want us to "win" a national debate; I want the way national debates happen to change. I want Republicans also to feel like they have a stake in the next administration, should we win the White House. I want them to feel like we understand where they're coming from, and we're willing to work with them on the things we agree with them about, like helping out the middle class, keeping our environment at least liveable, and working in an economy that is something more than the value of our labor going into stock portfolios, and making it possible for ordinary people to get health care.

I don't want to "stomp" anyone. I want the American people to be engaged in a more-or-less concerted effort to turn us around from the incredible mess we're in. I want us to be honest with each other about what we disagree about, and willing to work together on things we do agree about.

I'm wary of arguments about "experience" because frankly I'm not impressed with anybody's experience out there -- governing badly is not a sign of qualification for governing well (I find McCain's claim to be a "maverick" or "outsider" ludicrous...).

Finally, I don't put all of the blame for the bitter, partisan rancor of the past 2 decades solely on the Republicans. Democrats hired Dick Morris (yes, Republicans have too). Carville is to a large extent responsible for the government-as-a-perpetual-campaign system we seem to be stuck in now. Our answer to right wing attacks has been, until very recently, a tit-for-tat counterattack strategy that sheds a lot more heat than light on the situation (why the hell did it take so long to start developing our own, positive media voices like Air America and KO?).

In short, I'm simply not falling for the claim that we can't work with these people. They are our neighbors, they are our friends, they are our families, they are our coworkers. We owe them and us better than writing them off as rubes and rednecks who can't be trusted with their own future.

[Yael]

1. This should be fun

:popcorn:

[Beaverhausen]

2. YES! I got in before all the good seats were taken

:popcorn:

[IndieLeft]

6. They're gonna eat dmesg alive

[Recursion]

11. Indie, I've survived flame wars from the 1980's...

...these kids today don't even know how to flame war.

[IndieLeft]

58. LOL

should be interesting

[old guy]

This could get ugly!

[JustDavid]

20. dmesg is an everyday dem like me, a FDR dem.

dmesg represents 99.999% of the rest of the American population that does not post here.

[Sapphocrat]

3. Well, they hate you. n/t

[Recursion]

41. Really? The ones I know hide their hatred well

Or by "hate" do you mean "they advocate policies that I think are bad ideas"?

[reggie the dog]

62. bullshit

My best friend from high school votes Republican, so does his brother, father, mother etc. They are still happy as hell to see me when I come back to Chicago. They cook steaks on the barbq for us all to eat, and they roll a nice fat one of some good green and pass it to me. My buddie also comes to visit me here in France and we have already done 2 Amsterdam vacations together. We argue politics for a few minutes each time we see each other, then drop it and talk about our families and our lives. I do not hate him although I think he votes against his own interests. He does not hate me although he thinks I vote against my own interests. Neither of us wants to ruin our country and both of us are critical of W., as we were for Clinton. Most Republicans, like most Democrats, are perfectly capable of having friends that vote differently than they do.

[boston bean]

4. find me in about 5 years, if politics is something you follow closely.

obviously you do not have one clue, what the republican machine can do.

You might learn quicker than you think tho, if barack gets the nod.

[IndieLeft]

5. Do you know what you just did?

[Recursion]

15. Tried to start a conversation we probably need to have as a party?

Or, trolled for newbies. One of the two.

[Tellurian]

7. They are all alike. There is something reptilian about them.

[bunnies]

8. Heathen!

Traitor! Repuke!

Just kidding. :hug: Im with you. :hide:

[Enrique]

9. then you're not a real progressive

Real progressives hate republicans.

Ask Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, etc. They are constantly talking about how important it is to hate your political enemies. :sarcasm:

[reggie the dog]

63. right

W. may have said that you are with us or against us BS, but most people that vote Republican did not disown their friends or family members who voted differently.

[FiveGoodMen]

72. Well, it's awfully important to OPPOSE your political enemies

And that will be taken as hate if you do it right.

[cboy4]

10. Yea, I'm sure they want to work with you

:spray:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

101. Thank you!

WTF????

I have watched the reich wing destroy this country from the inside out - I am 51 and I saw it begin with Reagan. Sure, I KNOW some Republicans, what I know is they are still going to vote for that moron McCain or Romney and they all hate those ragheads and want to "Bomb, bomb, bomb... Bomb, bomb Iran"

I am so happy that the OP is so damned thrilled to glad hand with these criminals or the people who support the criminals. It's like saying Hitler wasn't such a bad guy... I like Volkswagon's.

What a crock of shit.

[nels25]

115. I bet I get myself in trouble for this but

I agree with the original post.

What would you have us do??

Put anyone not sufficiently progressive or who ever voted for a GOP candidate in a re-education camp??

Or perhaps up against the wall is the answer??

Come on folks we have got to get beyond this BS, their is enough guilt on both parties to go around for the last 30 years.

Remember the Democrats treated the GOP like total crap in th 70's and 80's, why do you think Newt was so hell bent on getting even??

Do you want to set up those kind of dynamics again, so that the GOP regains control after 8 or 12 years? Think about it it could happen just that way.

Better to forge a better path like Obama wants to and leave the past to the past, can not be changed any way, and pure hate takes way to much out of a person.

Think about it.:think:

[kikiek]

12. I really don't hate anybody. I might not like what they do. Ruin our economy, the middle class, the

country's unity, the country's reputation, the country's Constitution, etc etc etc. Bush didn't get it all done without the help of DeLay, Frist, Cunningham, the list could go on. The other Republicans didn't stand up to any of them. Maybe I do hate them.

[redqueen]

13. You have neighbors, friends and family in the legislature in DC?

There's a big difference between the repub electorate and the repukes in DC.

You do know that, right?

[Recursion]

18. There are some incredibly bad apples in the GOP in DC

Though there are some Republicans in Congress I admire and respect, even though I disagree with them.

[redqueen]

21. They have rubber stamped every bad (and illegal) action their leader has taken.

Sorry, I won't play nice about it. It is the truth and it needs to be said.

Reaching out to the electorate, fine... that's understandable.

Trying to fool ourselves or ANYONE else about how those assholes play the game, though... that's just frickin stupid.

[Recursion]

23. So have a whole lot of Democrats

But that's where we are. I want ways to move forward

[redqueen]

Whole lot is way different than just about every single one...

wouldn't you say?

Sorry... but there's a lot more difference than you seem to want to believe.

[Recursion]

39. The only Senate nay on the PATRIOT act was Feingold

There were 29 ayes from Democrats in the Senate on the IWR and only 21 nays.

Sure, better, than the Republicans, somewhat, but not anything to write home about. And I'm still willing to work with these people.

[redqueen]

42. Whatever.

Good luck to you and Obama and anyone else who thinks it's possible to work with that corrupt fucking slime.

[reggie the dog]

67. thanks

Do not forget that Republican VOTERS are usually just regular folks like us. They are no more slimy than people who vote Democrat.

[redqueen]

69. Yes, I pointed that out above.

Guess you missed that part.

:hi:

[PassingFair]

88. ...and Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee fell on his sword to vote NO...

http://www.projo.com/news/content/LInc_Chafee_01-27-08_PD8NPTK_v103.279fc7c.html

snip>
“I find it surprising now, in 2008, how many Democrats are running for president after shirking their constitutional duty to check and balance this president,” writes Chafee. “Being wrong about sending Americans to kill and be killed, maim and be maimed, is not like making a punctuation mistake in a highway bill.

“They argue that the president duped them into war, but getting duped does not exactly recommend their leadership. Helping a rogue president start an unnecessary war should be a career-ending lapse of judgment.”


He had more honor than 29 or our Senators, IMO; he
cared more about innocent Iraqis and our troops than
he did about his own political career.

I would vote for him if he ran as an independent in my state.
He has proven himself.

[TwilightGardener]

102. Well, I'd hesitate to call Chafee a Republican even before he jumped ship--

he was a confused Democrat. My Senator Ben Nelson is more conservative than Chafee.

[PassingFair]

103. I agree, proving the OP's point.....n/t

[reggie the dog]

66. I can name at least one

Republican congressman who voted against the Iraq war, against the war in Afganistan, and against the Patriot act parts one and two. Ron Paul. He has not rubberstamped anything for W.

[redqueen]

68. The exception which proves the rule.

Thank you.

Also, he's massively ignorant about economics & also a racist. But hey...

[reggie the dog]

78. As if

there are no racists or people that do not understand economics that vote Democrat.

People that would vote for Ron Paul have a hell of a lot of common points with the progressive movement, anti war, anti patriot act etc. Why not concentrate on the similarities instead of the differences? Why not try to reason with them and convince them that racism is BS? By saying you hate all Republican voters you send the message that it is ok to hate certain groups of people.

[redqueen]

80. "By saying you hate all Republican voters "

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!

Try reading my posts again. You've still got it all wrong.

[reggie the dog]

82. what do I have wrong?

You are posting on a thread dealing with the fact that someone does not hate people that vote Republican and you are saying you cannot work with them. What would you do in a country with proportional representation and coalition governments, throw your hands over your ears and yell I can't hear you???

[redqueen]

84. The OP was ambiguous... he didn't specify "voters" or "politicians".

SO take that up with him.

I thought this was fairly clear, myself:

"There's a big difference between the repub electorate and the repukes in DC." This I said in my first response to this thread.

Was that ambiguous to you?

[helderheid]

14. I have google ads blocked but for some reason they show on this thread. Weird!

I don't hate them either.

[redqueen]

16. They're testing stuff...

there was a thread about it... I should find it and kick it again... if it's not archived already.

[redqueen]

22. Can't kick it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4291347

Shouldn't show up if we're logged in, though, based on that that post... hmmm...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. That strategy has been tried before......

Reid and Pelosi “reached out” to Republicans by taking impeachment off the table.

Reid and Pelosi “reached out” to Republicans by not using the power of the purse either to end the war or to curb executive power.

Read and Pelosi “reached out” to Republicans through FISA “reform” by trying to give Bush more power than even the Republicans tried to give him, when they were in the majority.

In fact, Reid and Pelosi “reached out” to Republicans by caving and capitulating to them on just about any issue you can name.

And what did we get? We got nothing. We didn’t get the legislation, because the Republicans filibustered everything in sight. And we didn’t get any oversight, because Reid and Pelosi were so busy “reaching out” that they didn’t have time to enforce the subpeonas and ended up writing Sternly Worded Letters instead.

So, when Obama reaches out, how would that be any different from the reaching out that Reid and Pelosi already did? What the Obama fan base says is that, since we won’t get to a filibuster-proof supermajority, a strategy of conciliation makes sense; they plan to pick off Republicans in onesies and twosies to pass needed legislation. Unfortunately, as we’ve seen, that’s what Reid and Pelosi already tried, so why would we try it again? But, say the fans, Obama has a track record: Look at the Transparency in Government Act, where Obama teamed up with Republican Tom Coburn to pass legislation that put government spending programs on a searchable website for public access. No question that this is a good bill, but as proof of concept for a “reach out” strategy, it’s weak (but, apparently, the best example available). For one thing, the bill is an obvious descendant of the work Gingrich (even a stopped clock) did with Thomas, which gave the public web access to legislation, so politically the bill was low-hanging fruit that could be sold in the classic Republican small government, anti-spending mode. No truly progressive policies will meet those conditions. More importantly, Obama’s Transparency achievement, though real, is trivial—both in terms of policy outcomes and potential for conflict—seen relative to what’s going to be needed to achieve universal health care (let alone clawing back income distribution to some sane, non-Gilded Age level). But wait, say the fans, you don’t really understand; what Obama wants to do is bring “Republican and independent voters outside of Washington” into the fold, and that will give us the leverage we need for real change. And if this were true, I would have expected to see enough calls from these Republican and independent voters to prevent children from dying because Bush vetoed S-CHIP, to take but one example of many. Ditto FISA (See Appendix II). Didn’t happen. Na ga happen.

Here’s another idea:

When you’ve got them by the balls, the heart and head soon follow. How about we try real oversight and a return to the rule of law in the form of criminal investigations, indictments, and jail time, instead of singing kumbaya? Combine that with a strong institutional presence in the form of a party you can actually mobilize, and you might get the Conservative Movement back in line. With a Democratic president, there’ll be no pardons for them. Some operatives should do time, pour encourager les autres. That’s the kind of politics we need.

Obama presents himself as unifying, but accountability is what’s needed. Let’s repeat that “reach out” paragraph:

I’ve learned in my life that you can stand firm in your principles while still reaching out to those who might not always agree with you.

Fine words butter no parsnips. What principles are we talking about, here? Off the top of my head:

1. The principle that everyone is equal before the law.

2. The principle that this nation does not torture.

3. The principle that there are three co-equal branches of government.

4. The principle that high government officials should not break the law with impunity.

5. The principle that elections are not stolen

6. The principle that war is not made on fake evidence



Check that list, and start crossing off the Republicans whose actions show that they don’t share those principles, and whose principles differ from all progressives, most Democrats, and most Americans, and by the time you’re done, you’ll have about as many Republicans as would fit in an elevator. A very small, dumbwaiter-sized elevator. In fact, when the elevator door opens, you might just end up “reaching out” to empty space.

This isn’t just a matter of a “food fight,” or “disagreements.” These are not abstract agree-to-disagree issues. Violating these principles ought to entail criminal prosecution (destroyed CIA tapes, election theft), impeachment (signing statements), or whatever the remedy is for just plain evil (torture).

So at best, Obama is feeding us highflown, but vacuous rhetoric. At worst, he’ll let the Conservative Movement operatives who drive the Bush administration get away clean, after committing criminal and impeachable offenses with impunity and no accountability of any kind. That’s not the kind of politics we need to achieve a permanent progressive majority.

[Recursion]

19. I could care less about "reaching out" to Republican congressional leaders

I want Republican voters not to feel like they're out in the wilderness if we beat them soundly.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

30. hahaha I'm sorry for laughing, but ....

I just couldn't stop it

I suffered through 7 years of abuse and hell at their hands....sorry I can't muster up a smidgen of compassion for them nor the desire to extend my hand in their direction.

that's just the way it is

[Recursion]

33. And I went through a horrible and illegal war

I can still manage to have compassion for the legislators, Democratic and Republican, who voted for it. Why? Because I have to move on.

[redqueen]

43. Were you actually IN the war?

Cause if not, you may want to re-word that.

[Recursion]

45. Yes

My avatar used to be the USMC logo but I changed it to the OpenBSD pufferfish.

[redqueen]

49. Well thanks for your service, then.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

47. you're young and haven't seen this happen before...too many times it has to been the Dems that...

have extended their hands and madenice and righted again and again all the Rethuglican wrongs....I have seen it happen again and again ....since the 50's....I say NO MORE!

sorry but this ol'lady is tired and out of tears and does not want to see it happen anymore.

[reggie the dog]

73. Do you

always have such an additude when talking to Republicans??? perhaps that is why they give you so much shit. When my Republican buddies were getting on my nerves talking about W. they shifted to baseball and hockey when I let them know it was annoying me. Our cue to stop talking politics ususally is somthing like "how about them blackhawks, was the fishing good last time you were in WI? or the ever popular how is the family?

[Beaverhausen]

46. well who the hell do you think Obama is going to have to work with?

The american people don't vote on bills and supreme court appointees, the congress does.

[Recursion]

54. Probably a pretty different group from the Congress today

There are quite a few vulnerable seats in 2008.

[Beaverhausen]

74. Newsflash- there is a democratic majority now and we still can't get much done

Republicans march in lockstep- yes even those more modeate ones such as Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe and Richard Lugar. When push comes to shove they will vote with their party and we can't get anything done.

If we do finally get a bigger majority we could get things done, but I don't want it to be because we give into them. We have far too many problems to continue to give in.

[nels25]

119. We only have a 1 seat majority

and the rules of the senate are the rules of the senate most legislation of any meaning need 60 votes to pass and those votes are just not there, to say nothing of being able to override a veto.

We need more democratic senators in order to accomplish things.

If I had to guess I would think that the number of Democratic senators after this falls election would be somewhere between 54 and 57. That should be enough to get things done.

Especially since there will either be a president Obama or Clinton.:hi:

[Recursion]

61. More to the point: there are 6 open R seats in the Senate, and 17 R incumbants

Some of whom are fairly vulnerable, and the resignations have included some key members of the toxic GOP leadership.

We have 12 incumbants, none terribly vulnerable, and no open seats that were previously D's.

Changing the Senate and House are a very important part of changing the political climate.

[nels25]

116. Supremely well stated

and I could not agree more.

It is not so much what passes for current representation of the GOP at the DC level it is that there are Joe and Jane citizens who in every community have in the past and may in the future vote GOP.

Dehumanizing them accomplishes nothing, most people if called a jerk (even in a de facto way) for the way they vote will take offense, I mean human nature will out.

I made the mistake of voting for GOP candidates in the past, but you will never see me make that mistake again. I was wrong and learned, do you not think others who once voted republican can not also??

Might be a better option to find out, don't you think?:dem:

[Raine1967]

117. Amen.

As has been stated in this thread, a lot of regular people who vote republican are just that, they are our neighbors and our family...

I HATE and despise the party's policies, and the Karl Rove tactics and even WHAT the platform is... but no, I don't hate my fellow citizens for being republicans.

[reggie the dog]

70. There is reaching out and reaching out

Reaching out the the politicians in DC is a hell of a lot different than reaching out to the voters who feel that they were grifted by W.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. why do you have an advirsement for toyota in the top of your post?

[Recursion]

25. It's the site, not me

I think they're messing around with the ads system.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

31. ahhhh

[parasim]

26. I agree with everything you just said.

However, it appears that our current political landscape is completely entrenched in the classic dialectic of "us vs. them", "you're either with us or against us", divide-and-conquer mentality.

I have plenty of friends and family who are of the Republican persuasion and I don't hate any of them. I disagree with them and argue with them. But i don't hate them.

[onenote]

27. well put. kicked and rec'd

[NoBorders]

28. I agree

[Proud2BAmurkin]

29. They hate you.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

36. define "they" - eom

[reggie the dog]

75. no, they do not

stop trying to convince us that our friends and family members secretly hate us because of how we vote.

[Mojorabbit]

32. Neither do I

My dad was a lifelong republican. He was not a neocon. He voted for Kerry in the last election before he died and had my mother do the same. He knew crazy when he saw it.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

34. I agree with you 100% - eom

[Hugabear]

35. Rethugs are slimy creatures who will stab you in the back

Their policies are sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, and fascist. What's not to hate about them?

[Recursion]

40. What's not to hate about them?

The fact that they're humans, that they're Americans, that they love their children as much as we love ours, and that they want things to stop going so badly just as much as we do.

[redqueen]

44. "they want things to stop going so badly just as much as we do"

Wow... I don't even know what to say to that.

Oh no, I do:

- treating climate change like a myth
- treating evolution like a myth
- treating myths like science
- treating the government & the public like a rented mule

Shall I go on?

[Recursion]

53. OK

- treating climate change like a myth
- treating evolution like a myth
- treating myths like science
- treating the government & the public like a rented mule

On the last one, the funny thing is the conservatives I know are just as sick of corporate influence of government as I am.

On the first one, I don't know many global warming deniers, but even those don't like having polluted air and water.

On the middle two, I'm not very religious but I accept that they are. So, I would fight them on public school science curricula, for instance. But I'm not going to mock them for being religious. I don't even particularly feel better than them or smarter than them just because they're conservative Christians.

[redqueen]

55. I never said to mock them.

But they are taking over the schools here. So... oh well! Guess I'll just have to move somewhere they don't outnumber those that don't reject science out of hand by 10:1.

The conservatives you know aren't all fired up to end welfare, medicare, and public education? Where do you live? Not in a red area, I bet. Every gotdamn one of them down here has the sicko-right 'shrink it & drown it' mantra down by heart.

As for polluted air and water... that's nowhere NEAR the climate change issue... so... I don't see how it applies at all. And besides, they don't seem to care much about pollution, either, where I live... as our republican legislature relaxed pollution laws. And guess what the repub electorate said about that? That's right: nothing. Yeah, they care so much! You do know they think environmentalists are like a step away from terrorists, right? Environmentalists impinge on corporations profits! And corporations are like a gift from baby Jesus! They gives us jobs!

[Hugabear]

48. I'm sure you could find nice things to say about Adolf Hitler also

Doesn't change my feelings about him.

[Recursion]

50. Seriously? Godwin's law already?

If I wanted to talk about Hitler I would have. I'm talking about American conservatives.

[Hugabear]

52. No, I'm just making a point

You can find something nice to say about everyone if you really try hard enough.

The fact that some rethugs are "decent" people doesn't change the fact that their policies and viewpoints are racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.

[cbayer]

56. How is hatred towards a person because of their political affiliation any different

than hatred towards a person because of their sex, race, sexual orientation, country of origin, religious beliefs, etc., etc.?
Bigotry is bigotry and I agree with the OP.

[redqueen]

60. Choice.

And I will damn sure show hatred for a person whose "religious beliefs" tell them to trash the planet, let gay people die cause it's "god's will", or any other of the batshit insane crap that wrongwingers believe & spew.

[reggie the dog]

76. why hate people

because they belive the BS their preacher tells them? I do not hate my grandparents and their views on gay marriage are the inverse of my own.

[redqueen]

79. IF it's about gay marriage, that's one thing... it's bad enough, but it's not life or death.

If they believe reagan was right to let aids run rampant cause it was "god's punishment" then yeah, I'd think you should hold them in pretty low esteem.

Hate is a very strong and loaded term. I won't jump on the demagoguery bandwagon with it.

[reggie the dog]

83. I can honestly say

that I have never physically met anyone who votes Republican that tried to argue that aids was Gods will. I read about it, but no one in my circle of friends has said that ever, nor has anyone in my family. But even if my grandparents did I would not hate them, I would just think they were old, foolish and set in their ways.

[cbayer]

89. And if you choose to hate an individual, that's not the same thing

as hating a whole group of people who have extremely diverse and often contradictory beliefs. That's prejudice, intolerance and bigotry. Not very democratic.

[redqueen]

91. Hate is a loaded word. As I said before I won't join in the demagoguery.

How about we at least stop trying to be perfect long enough to recognize when an entire group of people (mostly politicians, but some of the electorate as well) has gone completley batshit, murderously insane?

This nicey-nice stuff is great and all... but let's not fool ourselves.

[Recursion]

104. Yeah. "Hate" was probably a needlessly provocative word choice on my part

Sorry about that.

[slipslidingaway]

37. Agree and in order to move forward we need to move past the

idea that every Republican is our enemy...well stated.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

51. remember all the "get over it's" and the "move on's " and "whiners" from the Rethugs?

[slipslidingaway]

85. Not every Republican feels that way, half of my family and

several friends are registered Republicans. Most of them did not vote for Bush in 2004 and some voted for the Democratic nominee for Senate in 2006 because they see the need for this administration to be held accountable.

To perpetuate the idea that all Republicans are evil and all Democrats are virtuous does not help in my opinion, it only allows the little people to be controlled by the big people.

[jlake]

38. Well, I do. And I know that they do not want to work with us.

But thanks for being asleep for the past 20 years.....Obama counts on it.

[Recursion]

65. Sigh...

thanks for being asleep for the past 20 years

Well, the time I haven't been on active duty in the military I've been doing a lot of organizing on environmental issues and campaigning for city council candidates -- the environmental stuff was in some very, very "red" areas, and I found a lot of common ground with people, I think because I didn't come off as a smug know-it-all who was trying to uplift these barbaric hordes from their ignorant ways.

Could I have been doing more and paying more attention? Sure; who is that not true for? But I don't think it's being asleep to have cold-knocked on people's houses and talked to them about preserving local green space and keeping rivers clean, especially when it made me realize that conservatives worry about a lot of the same things the rest of us do.

Politicians of both parties are for the most part another breed of animal entirely because they're pretty disconnected from the kind of lives most people have to lead; I accept and expect that.

[Qutzupalotl]

57. Also note this distinction between R voters and their elected officials:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4391392&mesg_id=4391392

[gravity]

59. I hate the 'us vs them' attitude in politics

I have some republican friends, and they are nice people. If exclude some wedge issues, and stop worrying about which side is correct, most Americans want the same thing for this country.

[NC_Nurse]

64. You are a brave, brave soul.

I salute you. :patriot:

I too am not a knee jerk Repub hater, since I'd have to hate my dad, most of my coworkers, and the majority of people in
this state. SOME of them actually make sense on some issues....I even prefer respectful discourse to poo-flinging. But I don't think
I would be willing to start a thread about it these days. I hope your flameproof suit serves you well. :pals:

[TheDoorbellRang]

71. One of the ways to mend fences is campaign finance reform

and that's not as much of a non sequitur as it seems. In the "olden" days, legislators spent a lot more time in D.C. and consequently a lot more time with each other. Now when they're not in session they're out on the campaign trail somewhere and spend litle or no time with their opposite numbers in Congress. Much easier to demonize the other side when you don't really know them. Add poisonous wormtongues like Limbaugh and Coulter, and pretty soon the acrimony stops just shy of violence. It was both parties working together that deposed Nixon and McCarthy, not just Dems. We need campaign reform not just to get better reps into Congress, but to allow them to spend more time with each other to appreciate our common humanity.

BTW, my husband is a Republican (old school), and if he and I can be civil to each other thru these past years of the B*sh nightmare, then other adults can be civil, too. "Hatfields and McCoys" is not the way to go.

[qwlauren35]

77. Funny...

I don't actually know a lot of Republicans that I get along with beyond work. Might be because I'm African-American. I can actually only think of one in the family... and one who married into the family and knows enough to keep his mouth shut or get annihilated.

We're a pretty opinionated bunch, and we're pretty darned liberal.

However, with that said, I have coffee with Republicans over the watering can, and I have respect for many of them.

Even if I don't agree with all Republicans on all things, I often can find common ground.

However, you do have to realize that there are people here in DU who cannot find that common ground. With few exceptions, everything they believe in runs counter to the Republican platform.

Hopefully, you and they can agree to disagree.

Good luck...

[Shine]

81. Nice post. Hate won't get us anywhere. n/t

[tnlefty]

86. "They are our families", yeah, but not by choice.

And no I do not respect them nor the "values" they put forth. From my experience they are racists, hate anything liberal, can't hold an original thought in their heads, are meaner than a striped snake, hate anything that benefits society as a whole even if benefited them at some point.

But you keep thinking that you can go along to get along with them.

[redqueen]

87. You described the ones down here to a t. Spot frickin on.

Anyone around here not matching that description switched to "Independent" long, long ago.

[tnlefty]

96. I don't know where "down here" is for you,

but it's a fact of life for me. That's why I don't trust 'independent' voters either. In my neck of the woods they're mixed between disaffected democrats but most are repubs who just don't like the way things are going with the repukes right now.

[cbayer]

90. Wow, bad trip. Did you meet them all at a KKK rally? I hope you ran away fast.

[redqueen]

92. It's painfully obvious you don't deal with too many republicans.

People in blue states have no idea...

[tnlefty]

95. I'm not trying to be rude, but did you miss the part about

families? They are my relatives, and my kids have a hard time relating to their grandparents, uncles and aunts. Kinda hard to just run away, but my kids are old enough now to get their barbs in here and there.

Please, I've been called a "damned liberal bitch", "n-word lover and a queer lover" for advocating equal treatment and protection under the law.

[cbayer]

97. Look, I despise the republican platform. And despise people like your family members

who spread their hatred and bigotry and use it to hurt others. But not everyone is like that. It's like calling every Christian right wing or fundamentalist. I know lots of republicans who are deeply ashamed of their party right now and feel that they were lied to and abused by the people they voted for. But they have no voice at this point because anyone running in that party has to support the current platform. All I am saying is that we might not want to paint all of them with the same brush.
And I know some right wing fundamentalist Christians who are more environmentally active than most of the democrats I know.
I regret my previous comment about the KKK. Hard not to get dragged into it sometimes.

[Blarch]

93. Repubs are shredding our constitution

I hate them for it ...and will never forgive them.

Why the fuck would you treat these traitors as equals ?

[Recursion]

98. Plenty of Dems are too

There's blame enough to go around, and we all managed to get us where we are now, and we all need to pull us out of it.

[reggie the dog]

112. as if

the democrats did something to stp that from happening. they voted for the damned patriot acts 1 and 2.

[RL3AO]

94. I hate far right leaning people

I hate far left leaning people. Both of those can screw up a country quicker than any moderate republicans can.

[robbedvoter]

99. They lovingly steal elections and torture people. Other than that, they're just like you

and me....Do we owe this new spirit to Obama?
Just so as I know tomorrow in the booth when I explain my to kid how sometimes a vote can be both FOR someone AND against someone else

[Zorra]

100. Drivel. Republicans just totally destroyed our country, and you are trying to

convince us that we should trust the child killing war mongering planet rapers that stole an election in order to seat a horrible fascist in the WH.

You really gotta be kidding me.

On edit: And furthermore, name one good thing that republicans have done for this country in the past 7 years.

[Jed Dilligan]

106. Driven trucks, delivered babies, taught classes...

The OP is talking about Republican PEOPLE, not politicians. I will take a Republican human being over a Democratic politician in most cases.

[Recursion]

107. There are certainly Republicans I despise

There are Democrats I despise. There are Republican politicians I admire. Even ones I bitterly disagree with.

[Jed Dilligan]

108. I have a particular hatred of politicians, lawyers, etc.

There's never been one I supported without reservation.

[Zorra]

113. So they support child killers and planet rapers, and get them to do their

dirty work for them. That makes it all OK?

What's the difference?

Do they say, "I didn't know"?

[Jed Dilligan]

118. Yes, their politics are totally wrong and have evil effects

I wouldn't say any one of them has nearly as much blood on his hands as, say, a Democratic senator who voted for the IWR.

What do you want to do? Exterminate them? I think that a lot of them are coming around to reason, because they are not bad people--they have been systematically disinformed and misinformed by both political parties.

[eridani]

105. I hate Rethug officeholders, but not my Republican neighbors

They just aren't well informed, which does not deserve hate.

[Bluerthanblue]

109. DMESG- you

are the brightest spot on DU today-

kudos- to you and your courageous voice.


thank you!!

peace~
blu

[patrick t. cakes]

110. republican politicians i can easily hate

they have destroyed this country.
but my friends and neighbors who vote republican
i simply pity.

[in_cog_ni_to]

111. I do and they hate me. n/t

[leftofthedial]

114. I hope you have lots of vaseline