The contrast between these two events could not be any more stark.

[Stephanie]

It's like the dawn against the dark. Hers was staged and phony and insincere, a Rovian Potemkin infomercial. Obama's is out in the open with a huge, fired up, rowdy crowd, and Kerry and Kennedy. Obama is leading a movement.








No photos yet available of the Obama rally but it's HUGE.

[DemGa]

1. Reads like a cult to me

The Obama Party.

[russian33]

5. bingo

that gathering here at Hartford, reminded me of something from a revival...with one of those "preachers" and the whole crowd screaming and shouting...did anyone get healed?

[neutron]

14. I cannot believe you are distorting her show - it was brilliant

The Obamaniacs have been sliming her like this for MONTHS.
If you want to see what liars they are, go to her website and watch.
It's playing again.

[rodeodance]

25. IP was sliming the Townhall threads with this vile. Obamababies at their best.

[russian33]

48. um, distoring whose show?

i was referring to the Obama-rally here at Hartford

i enjoyed the town hall meeting with Hillary very much...thought it was a great idea, much better way to reach people

[xmas74]

22. I had never thought of it that way before.

I've heard students talking about hearing him speak and how they were mesmerized, women fainted, etc.

I was raised with tent-revivals but couldn't put it together until you just said it. The description's the same, minus the laying of the hands and maybe a snake.

I left that way of life behind me as soon as I could make a choice. No way I'd ever go back.

[arewenotdemo]

51. I'd like to add something to this point.

My girlfriend (who is going to vote for Barack) just mentioned the same thing. She hates and refuses to be led emotionally and says that it has to do with her Baptist upbringing. She told me that before she can get passionate about any subject there has to be an intellectual connection. I'm an ex-Cathoholic so I apparently don't have the antennae to pick this sort of thing up and be properly repelled.

She's also a scientist and has always been a data slut and doesn't even believe in intuition. I've just always assumed that she was hopelessly left-brained, but maybe her experience with religion has had a heavy influence.

So maybe there is that aspect to some of the attraction for Obama, but I'd just ask undecided voters here to try to get past that and make their own objective analyses of the candidate. He hasn't presented his political rise as a fishes and loaves case, ala Huckabee, and I really do not think he's trying to hypmotize the brainless masses.

The dude is charismatic. Not Anti-Christ evil. M'kay?

[xmas74]

67. I've never said that he's Anti-Christ evil.

You said that.

I said that I refuse to be led into a tent-revival atmosphere. There is a huge difference.

[arewenotdemo]

68. I know that you didn't say that.

And I do appreciate your point.

I was just adding my two cents.

[xmas74]

73. And I'll support him if he wins the nomination.

I did the same with Kerry in 2004. Though I didn't support him in the primaries I worked my butt off for him in the general election.

What I did say was that I was not enamored with his style. Hearing him speak makes me think of hard church pews, a cramped overheated building and people flailing themselves about while speaking in tongues. There is no appeal whatsoever for me.

[russian33]

52. he is a passionate speaker, but i don't hear substance

and the setup is not something i'm comfortable with
it's great he can pack an arena, but this isn't american idol finals..we're picking a president, who has to do a LOT of work to fix a LOT of things...

[xmas74]

69. Exactly.

Speakers of that caliber are fantastic to watch in action but I can't blindly follow them.

Like I mentioned before-I grew up seeing that at revivals. I grew up hearing it at Sunday morning service. (I was raised a Pentecostal.) While some might be captivated I'm not.

[helderheid]

10. hardly. It's a bunch of people who have been starved of hope for so long who are sick of dynasties.

[Straight Shooter]

62. Like that Kennedy Dynasty. How many years have they been political powerhouses, anyway?

But I do love that RFK, Jr., fighting for the environment instead of center stage. :)

[helderheid]

79. I really don't think you can compare the two for obvious reasons.

[paulk]

90. and yet you compare the Clintons and Bushes?

[Cameron27]

11. The Obamacans

[Proud2BAmurkin]

34. BAAH

:rofl:

[ErnestoG]

12. The Cult of the Hillarzombies? I agree.

[neutron]

17. No TV personalities and aging political stars

in Hillary's televised meeting - intelligent, thoughtful, enjoyable.

[rodeodance]

35. guess they lilked the RAH RAH--glitter approach.

[rodeodance]

31. Blind faith does it--its the nature of a cult

[Proud2BAmurkin]

36. And turning against your homies, like Krugman, Pres Clinton and Joe Wilson

[rodeodance]

I was actually taken aback by the vile spounted out by the Obamababies--I was.

[DURHAM D]

64. This is going to sound bad but -

I have actually wondered if Obama has some advisors that are Scientologists. Also, the abusive over exuberance of some of his supporters has raised a question in my mind. You know - the "attack, attack, attack" the non-believers technique.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

32. My EXACT thoughts. Swooning cult of personality.

[Cronus Protagonist]

39. That's only one of the things that bothers me about Obama

I want to know why his shit smells like chocolate and why his mouth is black inside.

:sarcasm:

[russian33]

2. leading like Moses?

oh get bent..i'm so tired of people accusing her of being phony!
this was a great thing she did...reached all across the country...are you calling people in 21 states phony, for gathering? asking questions?

[AX10]

3. Obama's events...

look more like a cult following.

[msongs]

8. you calling harvest crusade a cult? nt

[Whisp]

91. call it a cult if you like.

what I see is people actually feeling there is a hope of change to the system - change they have a personal hand in instead of relying on the regular fakery that has strangled the country. You will never convince me there will be significant change that is needed if another Clinton or Bush is behind the helm.

I think it's great that Obama has attracted so many to possibility of change and feeling involved.
you seem to forget it is about We the People, not We the Corporatists.

and even if all this excitement turns to ashes, even if the well oiled machine finds a way to win again, like they always do, whether it be by dirty politics or by election fraud....

This moment is ours.

[PeaceNikki]

4. It's all in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

:shrug:

[rurallib]

6. what about mccain - are his events at all eventful?

[ErnestoG]

7. Amen and thanks for the post.

[journalist3072]

9. You'd rather be entertained than educated. That's your problem. You're full of it, if you think

that Sen. Clinton's event was "stage and phony and insincere."

She was discussing the ISSUES in a clear, forthright way. She gave lots of specifics, which is probably why you don't like her.

If a voter doesn't want to be educated, why are they voting?

I'm sick of the folks who just want to be entertained.

[UALRBSofL]

18. That was the thing, she answered the questions people are most concerned with

I like the Q&A session. You can get informed about the issues.

[rodeodance]

27. It was a delight to listen to her--articulate, knowledgeable and sincere.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

43. That's my take. Obama is entertainment for bored rich people

[blm]

82. Try the National Security Archives if you want REAL education - It has facts you'll never

from the lips of a Clinton.

Too much in it that proves Poppy bush and his cronies like Jackson Stephens were protected throughout the 90s.

They should've been in jail by the end of 1994 but for the generosity of one man.

[jlake]

13. Why don't you quit trashing a great Democrat and enjoy Obama.

[JohnnyLib2]

15. Competence and depth will count for a great deal in the White House.

She spent the time demonstrating that she has both. :shrug:

[BlackVelvet04]

16. Only children need to be fired up all the time......

the reason you guys can't counter any questions or accusations is because you don't listen to anything of substance.

Chanting, cheering and goosebumps make for great pep rallys but not so much for a presidential election.

[Beausoir]

84. Bam!

But...they were promised free ponies if they voted for BO.

[ErnestoG]

19. Wow! Hillary got a handpicked audience of what...50?

[Control-Z]

77. That's ok.

Obama doesn't do Q&A as well as Hillary. Everyone knows that. So he sticks to his strength of doing well written, well rehearsed speeches. And Hillary, I believe, did a great job of showcasing one of her great strengths.

Edited: to clarify my sincerity.

[Stephanie]

92. I like the part where she acted surprised when Bill appeared onscreen.

It was like that old show, This Is Your Life! Oh Bill! I didn't know YOU were going to be here!

[maddiejoan]

20. You are absolutely right

Hillary's was all about the issues.

Obama's was all about Obama.

[blogslut]

23. was?

It's just starting, baby!

[maddiejoan]

33. Well enjoy your Variety Show

[KennedyGuy]

21. well there's an impartial description

Hillarys despair filled event VS Obamas surging HOPE!
Gee..I thought I was watching MSOBAMA for a minute there...

[Hoof Hearted]

24. I would be happy to watch an in-depth town hall by Obama and I wouldn't be an ass about it

I would listen to what he had to say and appreciate the chance to hear more detailed explanations from him in his own words.

It would be a good thing for him to do.

I place more value in reasoned explanations than I do pep rallies. Pep rallies are fun, but I would never make a voting decision based on a pep rally.

[Stephanie]

26. Then you are not watching this.

It's outstanding!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

37. It's creepy

[Hoof Hearted]

45. Are you suggesting that I should place more value on a pep rally than reasoned explanation?

That's just bizzare to me.

[rodeodance]

60. me thinks they are a tad bit jealous.

[Didereaux]

29. So would I. But it won't happen, he hasn't the in depth grasp of issues to sustain an hour

of questions. And Praising Hope, change and the Lord for that period of time wouldn't sell well anywhere outside of South Carolina!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. Love ya but BOOO!

[LVjinx]

30. Hillary interacted with people herself, didn't have celebs do it for her

This animosity towards her is pointless. She would (and I hope will) be a great president.

[City Lights]

38. Those two upper photos remind me of a certain someone's staged events.

:thumbsdown:

[Stephanie]

42. Precisely!

[mtnsnake]

40. The Goddess of Peace is a ROCK STAR. No need to be jealous of her

because she's so incredibly popular and brilliant, as well as beautiful. Her fans are universal. There's a reason for it...she's 100% sincere and down to earth. yeah

Dam she's pretty :smoke:

[BootinUp]

41. Is this necessary for you to get moved?

it reminds me of elementary school games.

[Marie26]

44. Does Obama take questions at his events? nt

[nonconformist]

54. Are you kidding? All they do is chant. nt

[Marie26]

61. For real?

That wasn't a slam, it was a sincere question. If Obama doesn't take any questions at his rallies, that really makes me wonder about his grasp of the issues. And it also seems... almost undemocratic. People can cry & faint at a rock concert; presidential campaigns should be about having a real discussion with voters. IMO.

[nonconformist]

75. Yep. Sad but true. nt

[Lisa0825]

46. I am HARDLY a cultist!

I was an Edwards supporter who took my time considering options as it became increasingly clear he wasn't getting traction. I chose Obama, but certainly did not get "born again."

I did watch Hillary Clinton's town hall. I also thought it looked more like an infomercial. I am sure that is not what was intended, but as someone who was NOT a sworm believer in her, I can say it did not move me, and the goal should have been to sway voters... I doubt it did.

As someone who likes Obama, but has not drunk any proverbial Kool-Aid, I just have to say that the live, not studio-produced look of his rally just looks more genuine to me than the Town Hall did.

I know there is a lot of animosity between Clinton supporters and Obama supporters. I call it out on both sides when I see it. I have to say that the naysayers in this thread are just sour grapes.... don't blame Obama for the less than spectacular result of the Town Hall.

GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE!!! And I mean ALL of you!!! Can we PLEASE try to be civilized about this???

I remember it being bad 4 years ago but this is fucking ridiculous!

[Hoof Hearted]

55. I think the intention was to inform voters, in depth about her positions

I thought it accomplished that well and it was a smart buy. I would like to see Obama do the same thing, I would definitely tune in to see it.

[ginnyinWI]

86. in this thread people are comparing apples to oranges.

A rally is one thing; a town hall meeting is quite another. The first one is not the place to take questions, and the second one is all about questions.

That should be obvious, but people seem confused.

When Obama speaks at a campaign rally he uses common speech and the people dig it. He can do the Senatorial thing on the Senate floor where it belongs. He can go in depth when doing an interview, or writing a book.

I keep hearing pundits say, over and over, that people don't decide who to vote for based on policies and positions. They decide by identifying with their candidate and connecting on an emotional level. That's what rallies are for--for connecting.

You are so right about the sour grapes. That's exactly what it's about.

[Barack_America]

47. Why is there text running across the screens in those pictures?

Was this really scripted?

That's sad.

[Tarc]

49. This just in: Stephanie easily wowed by slick rhetoric, but confused by substance

The only logical conclusion to reach when someone expresses a preference for a scripted, endorsement-heavy one-liner bumper sticker fest vs. an informative Town Hall-style discussion of the issues.

[Stephanie]

93. No, I just know her all too well.

And I know she doesn't vote in MY best interest, she votes in HILLARY's best interest. She lost me at AYE on the IWR.

PNAC Links Archive


Hillary's Sincerity Problem

[Radical Activist]

50. The town hall had all the sincerity of a Hallmark card.

Just as scripted, just as canned and just as cliche. Nothing she said was new and she seemed fake, as usual.

[smalll]

56. Ooh! Using big words! (cliche) Just not using them very well!

"Cliche" is not an adjective, at least in English. You should write, "just as canned and just as cliched." Or you could use it properly in its noun form thusly: "just as canned and just as much a cliche."

You seriously need to start paying attention in your 3rd period English class! (These kinds of errors won't help your SAT scores any either.)

[arewenotdemo]

66. Uh. I do believe "cliche" can be an adjective.

According to Webster, that is.

[smalll]

78. Do you have Webster's on hand?

I don't. Googling a little, I found the first couple of dictionaries on the web say that cliche is only a noun. I'd be interested to hear if Webster's really does pardon the crime I objected to.

On Edit: Or perhaps I should say, "...the crime to which I objected." :)

[Radical Activist]

80. Is condescending an adjective?

Or should I used condescension?

And in either case, would being snide and condescending be an adequate replacement for an actual intelligent comment?

[nonconformist]

53. You mean she was actually answering questions from Americans instead of having a cult rally?

How dare she.

[rodeodance]

57. yeah--pretty Presidential I think.

[workinclasszero]

58. Hillary = Corporate

Obama = The People's Movement.

[Straight Shooter]

65. People are looking at it as a movement, all right.

They're beginning to notice that Barack has followers, not supporters.

As has been noted before .... it's creepy.

[goodgd_yall]

59. His is fluff and hers is substantive

Were we watching the same events?

[Stephanie]

63. His is still on.

How can you judge if you're not watching.

[goodgd_yall]

70. Two windows open

Technology is something, isn't it?

[blm]

71. Kerry talked about time is coming for ACCOUNTABILITY - the more Obama grabs

the theme of open government the more his numbers will grow.

Americans are so tired of the fascist powerjunkies who seek to protect their powerbase with no concern of what their actions may bring down the road.

Open government accountable to the people. Who among us really is NOT ready for that?

[Stephanie]

81. We will close Guantanamo! We will restore habeas corpus!

That was the speech of a lifetime. It's ON.

[TexasObserver]

72. Out with the OLD, in with the NEW

time for spring cleaning early

[ArkySue]

74. Contrast indeed!

Clinton takes questions and answers them in depth, Obama delivers a "hallelujah" stump speech, and his endorsers follow suit. I never see him taking questions, "staged" or otherwise.

Where's the beef??

[goodgd_yall]

76. He's just saying the same old vague BS. n/t

[Bread and Circus]

83. Hillary Inc., brought to you by the Mark Penn Corp. a subsidiary of KKKarl Rove associates.

[Stephanie]

87. You got it. With special guests!

Live remotes! It was like a QVC show.

[woolldog]

85. Hillary

should make this her theme song for her entrances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn_95hdy6Nw&feature=related

[Mother Of Four]

88. I didn't watch her show.

She made a shameless plug in a debate, sorry but thats how I feel. It sounded (To me) a little over the top in a bad way.

I want Edwards back :(

[NastyRiffraff]

89. I watched the Town Hall meeting BECAUSE it wasn't just another speech

I was impressed. I like the format. I'd like to see Obama do one, too. I'm not sure he'd be as good; he's excellent at giving speeches, but not so good in a format where he has to answer questions. For instance, like a debate. Even some of his supporters who aren't Kool-Aid drinkers admit that a debate isn't his best venue.

BTW, I watched Obama's rally too, and I understand its purpose...to fire people up. Still, I got uneasy. Obama isn't stupid; he must know that some of his supporters are on the verge of worship...never a good thing...and seems to not only encourage it, but revel in it.