Has anyone else noticed this?

[leftofthedial]

An observation regarding Clinton and Obama supporters on DU . . .


I'm a Kucinich guy. Very grudgingly "adopted" Edwards, briefly as it turned out. I could not support either Clinton or Obama. I've expressed my disappointment in the absence of a true Democratic voice in this "election."

I'm not often subtle. With regard to the primaries, I'm not terribly interested in other posters' personal feelings, but I have expressed considerable interest in and have actively solicited DUers' opinions of the candidates' positions. Sometimes, I've been deliberately provocative, sometimes I've asked nicely for constructive input from both camps. I have noticed one consistent, unambiguous trend.

Clinton supporters have overwhelmingly attacked me. They've used ad hominem, strawman attacks, *extremely* insulting language and all manner of negative comments to berate me for not supporting Clinton or to try to minimize my point of view because I'm not a Clinton supporter. True, there are exceptions, but they are in the minority. I've been called sexist, stupid, moronic, un-Democratic, a Republican troll (when I've been here at DU longer than nearly anyone), an idiot, flatulent (?!), a hater and even worse--all because I've criticized Clinton or even just not overtly supported her or even just because I've asked for information about her positions.

Most Obama supporters, by contrast, with relatively few exceptions, have either shared with me their reasons for supporting Obama and/or have pointed me to information about Obama and his positions.

I'm still not really convinced that either Clinton or Obama is a good Democratic candidate, but either is preferable to any repuke.

I've tried (not entirely successfully) to avoid the most egregiously Obama-versus-Clinton flamefest threads, but even so I keep getting "ambushed" by Clinton supporters.

Attack is not persuasion. It is fascist and more to be expected coming from fascists and freepers. What's more, it reinforces the doubts I have about Clinton.

Has anyone else noticed this?

[NastyRiffraff]

1. Actually, I've noticed far more vitrol from some Obama supporters.

However, both camps are guilty. Not all of either are guilty, though. I don't know what you mean by "deliberately provocative," but if you insult someone's candidate, expect to be insulted in return.

[TexasObserver]

10. "if you insult someone's candidate, expect to be insulted in return."

That's exactly what's wrong with the extremists here. They don't understand that it is perfectly fine to attack someone's candidate, but not to insult the person who made such attack. I think if you will read your own post closely, you'll see why your stated justification of the personal attacks by Hillary supporters is inappropriate.

[zalinda]

2. Actually, I've found the opposite to be true

Obama supporters think that they are OWED supporters from the Edwards camp. I've always gotten the impression that they think Obama walks on water.

To tell you the truth, both camps have turned me off to them. Both have been rude and crude even before Edwards announced. Neither can give you any planks of their candidates platform unless they copy & paste from the web site, or they send you a link to the web site.

I stayed away from Obama threads or Clinton threads, but only tried to go into Edwards threads. Obama supporters were there bashing Edwards than the Clinton people.

Thankfully, I live in a blue state, so I don't have to vote for either of them.

zalinda

[DebraK]

3. I completely agree with you OP. HRC supporters will go to extreme lengths to degrade another poster

Their best technique is to PM their friends to gangon to a single poster in a thread to make it seem like a lot of people are agreeing with them. It's quite sad actually.

[Libby2]

20. I'm sure you can prove the pm statement you made.

[still_one]

4. I'll tell you what I have noticed, that anyone who makes personal attacks

against someone elses choice, as a means to convience the other person to support their position, is sadly mistaken

As far as your observation goes, I tend to agree, that the Clinton supporters on DU seem much more defensive than the Obama supporters.

Yes, I am an Obama supporter, and yes my opinion might be considered biased

and the reason why I am supporting Obama in the primary is two fold, Out of the two candidates, I believe he has the better chance to win against the republicans in the general election, and he seems more open to a dialog with our adversaries, instead of negotiation by threat

However, I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is, UNLESS, the Clinton camp continue to force the DNC through the courts to allow MI and Floridia to seat their delegates, and she wins the primary based on THOSE delegates

If that occurs, not only will I not vote for her in the General Election, but I will leave the Democratic party

[TexasObserver]

12. I agree.

We attack Clinton and her campaign.

They respond by attacking each of us personally, in vile and hate filled terms. It's one reason the Clinton campaign is in trouble. America and the party is sick of that viciousness, and the standard has been set by the Clinton campaign, leading to the bottom.

[sandnsea]

5. I've noticed people don't know who supports who

and assume that an attack on Obama is necessarily from a Clinton supporter, or vice versa. I have noticed that supporters of every candidate can be complete jerks. I'm not talking about a few exceptions to the majority, I'm talking about a good number of supporters of every candidate, including Kucinich.

[TexasObserver]

6. Yes, your impressions are valid observations.

I wanted Feingold in 2006. When he was pressing the Bush administration in early 2006, I thought he was a great guy to get behind. He didn't run, so I settled on Edwards, whom I have liked since his 2004 run. I was sympathetic to Kucinich and Gravel, but didn't think either could catch a spark. I felt Edwards could.

I was shocked when John shut his campaign down, but understand his logic. I've been through too many campaigns to have that "my candidate or no one" attitude. However, I understand that we are all on a personal journey, and because we are at different places in that journey, we have differing opinions about what is the correct step when our candidate bails out.

I feel no need at all to convince anyone to vote for anyone they don't like. I like Obama and will support him now. I do not care for Senator Clinton because she's not dependable, she's too cozy to evil forces, and she will bring out Clinton haters in record numbers. But mainly, Obama is simply a much, much better candidate.

Time to let the next generation take up the battle. We've had our time.

[ursi]

7. Yeah, I was a supporter of Edwards for over a year. I went with Obama

next. Then got pounded on so I started pounding back. Then I got tired of it so now I just ignore most of the "vitriol". there's not alot a few posts on DU are going to do to change the course of things when we are all eating each other alive.

Know what worries me? What is Bush and his clan up to when we aren't paying attention?

[Tatiana]

8. There are always fanatics.

You have to make the decision based on your own personal values and economic interests.

For instance, Kucinich sponsored a single-payer health care bill. None of the "big three" do. So, I would ask, if none of the front-runners is individually supporting single-payer as a presidential candidate, which one would be likely to sign the bill, if it passed Congress? Which candidate would be likely to veto such a bill?

Which candidate is for open government?

Which candidate addresses the issue of poverty?

Which candidate will do something about our trade deficit with countries like China?

I use these questions simply as examples based on the positions Dennis advocates.

Maybe we aren't choosing the candidate of our dreams, but we do have an opportunity to undo some of the damage that has been done in the wake of 8 years of Bush/Cheney.

[Levgreee]

9. One incident of this was the handshake issue going on for multiple days

Filling up much of the first page the whole time. Of course, it was back and forth, but the Clinton people kept it going.

another time I counted threads for threads that were attacks on Obama(31) vs Attacks on Clinton(15).

Now, that was for only one part of one day, but there was a strong slant. There are a couple especially hateful, especially vocal Hillary (or should I say, anti-Obama) posters.

[dmosh42]

11. I'm also a backer of 'populist' candidate set adrift...

and trying to decide before my primary vote. I haven't noticed one side or the other being more abusive, but I do notice a lack of substance. As an example, the latest on the health plan specifics. Each side is claiming the more superior plan, but no specifics ever come out. How much will the premiums be? Did the insurance companies write their plan? Will I still lose my home if I can't pay my medical bill? Those are some of the things we need to know, not a two sentence explanation. The shame is this is when you find out if your candidate is sincere, or just another hack. So far, lack of substance tells me the latter is true.

[murielm99]

13. Actually, I have noticed the opposite.

I noticed it before I took a position.

I think the Obama supporters have been worse over the last week or so.

I am not saying that to be contrary. I took careful note of it as I was weighing all my options in choosing a candidate.

[shaniqua6392]

14. I have seen things opposite of you.

For the record, I don't like either of our candidates. But, I have definitely noticed that a poster can not point out any of Obamas negatives without being flamed by a dozen or so other posters. The question is: What has Bushco been up to while you all are trying to figure out who to vote for and/or continually smear some from the opposing viewpoint? I have not really been able to find out any "truth" about either candidate on DU. Everyone is too busy stabbing each other in the back. Obama worshipers and Clinton defenders? He walks on water and she can not do anything right. That is what I have seen for the past few months here.

[Levgreee]

15. From what I see often Obama supporters actually defend Obama

and then the person who made the accusation in the first place just claims, 'excuses excuses'. The attempt at any discussion is then retarded and it descends into a meaningless back and forth, because certain people who attack Obama just want to be listened to, and not argued against.

[shaniqua6392]

19. That is the problem with this primary.

We are all seeing different things and there have been some real instigators causing trouble around here. It is like a political soap opera. I can wait until it is over. I don't even care any more how it ends.

[bluerum]

16. They are both starting to seem over the top negative. The old saying negative

campaigning works seems to have hit home with a lot of DU'ers.

It is pretty nasty watching them all fling shit at each other. But the repuglicans are getting a kick out of it - letting the nasties do their work for them.

[OneBlueSky]

17. nope . . . haven't noticed . . . but then again . . .

I very seldom click on a post that mentions either . . . haven't blocked the GD-P forum because I want a feel for the direction of the discussions, but there are very few threads worth opening and reading, imo . . . I think the reason for that is because neither candidate offers much of a change from the way things are now -- and neither is discussing the REAL issues like corporate control of government . . . makes the choice something of a TweedleDum v. TweedleDee, for me anyhow . . .

[Guava Jelly]

18. Both sides have been very childish

I as an Obama supporter will not bash Mrs Clinton.
I will not vote for her in this primary and I will not bash her supporters
In the end I may have to defend her against right wingers.
We are all on the same team and need to be more respectful of each other

[mojowork_n]

21. I've decided some of the shorter, dumber anti-Obama posts might be

from trolling flame-baiters. Just wanting to waste time, and because that's something most all of the Republicans can agree on -- another Clinton would energize all their Pavlovian stimulus-response reactions, like no other candidate.

I have doubts about Obama, too, but am hoping for the best from him as a sort of stealth (picking his spots) candidate:



I'd appreciate any comment you might have on that essay, either way.

[Perry Logan]

22. I've noticed just the opposite. The Obama people gross me out every day.

[leftofthedial]

25. as I said, I've tried to avoid the overtly Obama versus Clinton flame threads

I gather that plenty of negative posting goes on from all sides in those

[cooolandrew]

23. All warmly welcome to the Obama team the future is posittive the future is Obama.

[BootinUp]

24. .