An question from a colleague: Are there any women in academe who are solid Hillary supporters?

[Buzz Clik]

I had breakfast this morning with a colleague from another state. She is a professor at another university. We were discussing politics, and the subject quickly turned to Hillary. When Bill was still in the White House (and my friend and I were at the same university), she was a huge Hillary fan. She didn't like her health care fiasco in Bill's first term, but she like her just the same.

No longer. She now has nothing good to say about Hillary. Although I don't prefer Hillary to Obama, I tried to moderate her stance somewhat by suggesting that Hillary would be superior to any GOP candidate. "Except McCain," she said. "I'll vote for McCain rather than Hillary." I cautioned that she now found herself to the right of Ann Coulter, but she was unswayed. "Clinton's stance on mandatory health insurance is insane. Her bizarre swing to the right two years ago was infuriating, but now she's back to the left because she's in trouble with the base. She panders, compromises, she won't take a hard line on Iraq, she appeases Bush, her recent crying jags make me sick. You post at Democratic Underground, right? Is there there any woman at DU who thinks rationally who supports Hillary? Post this for me: find out if there are any women on faculty at any college or university who support her. If so, please ask them to specifically point out why. Not why they hate Barack Obama or the Republicans, but why Hillary Clinton would be a strong president with progressive ideas. I dare them."

Ok. There it is. I agreed to post this, but I don't agree to tend to this thread.

Please, spare me the flames and other bullshit.

We're looking for female professors (asst, assoc, full) who support Hillary and the reasons why.

Thanks.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

1. Not an academic and not a Clinton supporter but

How can this woman, who is obviously very intelligent and well-versed on the issues, even be considering McCain?

As flawed and compromised as she is, I'll take Clinton any day over that scary old loon.

[Mass]

2. I am not a Clinton supporter, but I am sure there are women in academia who are.

How can your friend consider McCain is beyond me.

[Buzz Clik]

I'm not at all convinced she'd vote for McCain. I think her comment was hyperbole.

... a reflection of her disappointment in Hillary.

[Clintonista2]

3. If your friend would vote for McCain, then she's an idiot either way

n/t.

[Buzz Clik]

4. Have you no self-control? Or, do you think insults are a good way to support your candidate?

[Clintonista2]

5. People who would be willing to vote Republican are idiots.

You should choose your friends more wisely.

[Buzz Clik]

7. self delete. I refuse to be sucked in.

[Clintonista2]

8. No thanks, I haven't recieved my rabies shots yet.

[Buzz Clik]

9. So much for the search for rational Hillary supporters.

... hitting the ignore in 3, 2, 1 ....

[Clintonista2]

12. Yawn. Another Obama supporter suppressing dissent via ignore

How surprising :eyes:

[libbygurl]

15. Oh, your sig pic is so cute and funny! nt

[Clintonista2]

19. Thanks, but I stole it from Methuenprogressive lol

[Buzz Clik]

6. Sometime later today, I'll be sending this link to my friend.

Try not to act like total assholes.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. how about Maya Angelou?

I'm not a Hillary supporter, but I would consider Maya as one of those you are looking for.

peace~

[Buzz Clik]

13. I don't think I've gotten my point across. Not looking for endorsements per se...

She's looking for academics who are willing to rationally state their reasons for supporting Hillary.

[Bluerthanblue]

21. ah- my mistake- I didn't

read your post carefully-

My son's 8th grade teacher is a Hillary supporter, but I don't think she's what you are looking for.

peace~

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. I know plenty of female professors who support Hillary Clinton

I am neither female, nor a Hillary supporter, though I would certainly vote for her in the general should she win the primaries as expected. Voting for McCain over Hillary is insane.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Do any of them post here?

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. I wouldn't associate with any academic who posts here

:evilgrin:

[Buzz Clik]

26. LOL!

(making a mental note of alcibiades_mystery).

Such a nasty remark. I love it.

[Didereaux]

28. now THAT is definitely a DUZY!!!! someone pm jeff

[Buzz Clik]

30. Let me do it. I love having the honor of giving a DUzy at my expense.

This would be the fourth time of being the butt of a DUzy winner's award.

:thumbsup:

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. You know I love ya!

:hi:

[Buzz Clik]

33. I have great respect for a clever insult, even when I'm the target.

Believe me, no offense taken.

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. It was ultimately bitter irony as well

Since I am myself an academic who posts here. ;-)

[Didereaux]

45. be my guest! lol

[libbygurl]

16. For whatever it's worth...

Firstly, your friend doesn't sound sincere about considering any reasons why she should support HRC. That pro-McCain outburst is totally nonsensical for a supposed Democrat.

I'm tired of repeating here what others have said so much more eloquently than I could ever have about why one supports HRC. I'm an asst. prof. at a medical school, for whatever that's worth. Academia can tend to produce purists who have lofty ideals far removed from reality. I used to be a cynic about politics, leaning extreme leftward with the likes of Noam Chomsky et al.. I'm more of a realist now, and realise you can't marginalise anyone who is a big player, which is why I think HRC has modified her health care plan from before.

But why do you castigate her for attempting to introduce universal health care? She was way, way ahead of everyone else on that issue alone. She's learned to modify it to fit the reality that exists.

I'm rambling now, but those are my few thoughts on the matter at the moment.

[Buzz Clik]

22. Thank you. I now have something to pass along to my friend.

I am thoroughly convinced that plenty of female academics support Hillary. (this was done simply as a favor)

My friend is neither insane nor (as suggested by someone with no room to criticize) an idiot. She also is hardly an idealist. Will she actually vote for McCain? I doubt it. As more and more information about him comes to light (such as Olbermann's piece last night), she'll see that McCain is a good choice.

Anyway, thanks for the sincere response.

[libbygurl]

25. You're welcome. nt

[Yossariant]

17. Absolutely not. No. Not even one. Good thread.

:rofl:

[Buzz Clik]

24. You seem to be missing the point. On purpose.

One of my warnings to my friend, and I'll quote myself verbatim: "DU represents nothing. I post there to blow off steam and harass the morons. One in one hundred posts at DU has even a hint of rationality. Two things keep me posting at DU: 1) The quick posting of important news items; 2) The sharp-witted posters with evil senses of humor. If you want a 'rational' analysis of anything political, look elsewhere."

Thanks for proving my point. My friend will be impressed by my genius.

[Yossariant]

37. Your dumb question got the answer it deserves.

Your friend sounds like an idiot so it's likely she would be impressed with your genius -- and quite easily.

:crazy:

[Buzz Clik]

40. You epitomize the current state of GD-P.

Thank you for being brave enough to step forward. My friend and I will have a hearty laugh at your expense.

[ginnyinWI]

53. that's why I come here as well

Most posts don't represent Democrats in general. It's an alternate reality--kind of like Cable-News-Land. It's fun to read the back-and-forth between opposing Dem camps, and I do get links to interesting news items which I often pass on to family and friends.

I'm a non-confrontational type and try not to get entangled in food fights--I try not to attack people but only defend my opinions using facts--kind of a waste of time, but some people might read and appreciate them.

Another major reason is for the smaller DU Groups--they're a lot more civil! If you haven't tried them, you'll be surprised at the difference in tone.

(By the way I'm not an academic, but am a middle-aged college-educated female.)

[Buzz Clik]

60. I agree that the smaller groups are actually civilized.

GD-P is totally insane, and nothing rivals it. GD can be crazy, but is a bit more relaxed (but just a bit). I prefer reading the Environment/Energy small group, and I post there occasionally. Not too many big threads there.

[bidenista]

18. not loading for me...

...but there should be a group here:

http://connect.hillaryclinton.com/clubcategory.jspa?categoryID=300000001

[Buzz Clik]

29. I'll pass that along.

I like two of the groups -- Buddhists for Hillary (1 member) and Jasper, Indiana for Hillary (2 members). Being from Indiana, I'm guessing the Jasper group has reached its full potential.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. my friend is an english prof who likes her a lot. she is in va.

[ElizabethDC]

27. Yes, there are many

I'm a student, and I know that some of my female professors support Hillary. I haven't sat down with them and discussed their reasons for doing so, though I do know that some know her personally, so I'm sure that that has an impact.

[bigtree]

32. what a crock to imagine some sample of responses from here would prove anything

Of course there are women as you describe who support Hillary Clinton. To imagine otherwise is, I think, a reflection of a perspective-limiting bias.

[Buzz Clik]

34. But, on the other hand, thus far there has been just one such response.

Just one person who fits the description requested and is answering in first person.

[cobalt1999]

36. My wife teaches Forensic Science at the local university...

She's voting for Hillary.

Side note: Walking through campus last week, I saw one...yes, ONE political sign (Obama) on the entire campus. I was struck by the contrast from my days in college where political signs were everywhere. I get the impression that except for the passionate few, politics isn't as big on campus as it used to be.

[Buzz Clik]

38. thanks. If she gets a chance, have her post her.

In our neighborhood, there are two yard signs for presidential candidates. That's out of about 60 homes.

People may be energized about this election, but it isn't spilling into their yards.

[kwassa]

39. My wife is a huge Hillary supporter

Not an academic now, but has been a college professor. My wife has maxed out her contribution.

I think that opinions will be just as divided among the academic community as anyplace else in this society, and that there is no correlation between academia and support for Obama.

Why would there be?

[Buzz Clik]

41. You ask an excellent and relevant question. I'll get the answer for you and post it later.

[TexasObserver]

42. I know several female professors.

I know one of them who is very supportive of Senator Clinton. She will be 61 in May of this year.

There seems to a dividing line at about age 60. Those Hillary's age and older tend to support her. Those younger than her 60 years tend to not be as high on Hillary. I would peg this as the cultural divide that the high school graduates of the 1964-1968 represent. I have observed this group closely for decades, being a part of it. There is a cultural divide between women who graduated in 1965 and those who graduated in, say, 1969, from high school.

All the polling data I see confirm this, as they consistently show that Hillary is winning women age 60 and over by huge margins, and they are turning out in record numbers to vote for her. In summary, I think she's an icon to women 60 and older, and less of an icon as one moves younger in the analysis.

[Buzz Clik]

47. Those are interesting observations.

Do any of your friends post or would be willing to directly share their reasons for supporting her?

[TexasObserver]

54. No, they don't post here.

I think I addressed your question in my earlier post. It's a divide that exists. If you graduated high school in the 1960s, you're probably already aware of it. If not, ask someone who is.

[Buzz Clik]

56. You may or may not have noticed that only one respondent actually fits the category I was requesting

All other responses (that weren't annoying insults) have been by surrogates. I simply was hoping to find someone else willing to post in the first person.

[TexasObserver]

59. Sorry I can't help you further.

I don't personally think that what people say about their choices matter that much. Most don't tell the truth about why they choose a candidate. I suspect that women who are younger do not feel as wedded to Hillary's angst ridden generation as do women her age and older.

It's like picking a jury. If your client is a 60 year old white woman, you're likely to get the best results by having as many 60 year old white women on the jury as you can get. People tend to vote for those candidates most like them, whether it's male, female, white, black, or Hispanic.

When a candidate can buck those trends, like Obama is doing, that's when a candidate can really do some good.

[dmallind]

43. My wife

I'm not sure why it has to be a woman and why it has to be a woman in academia to qualify (surely your pal does not think a PhD is required or even partcularly helpful for political acumen?). Fortunately however the spouse qualifies on both counts (as long as you include state universities as academia or is that not OK?).

Her principal reasons are close enough to mine (although I ended up plumping for Obama myself) and well enough known to me for me to explain, since she has no interest in message boards. They are - not in any particular order:

1) Solid voting record on choice, on civil rights and on social policies in general.
2) Moderate economic stance with emphasis on balancing budgets and repairing the damage done by Republicans
3) Sensible pragmatic rather than dogmatic approach to exiting Iraq which includes both immediate reduction and medium range support role (anyone who rules out ANY troops or ANY military role is nuts)
4) Healthcare policy will spread risk across maximum number and give help when needed, expect responsibility ehen not
5) Emphasis on renewable and alternative energy development
6) Ability to deflect and overcome RW smear machine
7) Gender IS an advantage - everyone wants to see people "like them" in office and we need to demonstrate a more enlightened mindset to other democracies who are way ahead of us in inclusion.
8) Demonstrated understanding of economics issues
9) Involvement in even minor capacity in most successful presidency of our life times
10)Campaign smarts demonstrate political acumen and ability to leverage others

I don;t think any of those could be said of McCain.

[Buzz Clik]

49. thanks for the great post.

A couple of things --

1) As I said somewhere else on this thread, her point wasn't that female academics are better than everyone else, she simply wants someone with her shared experience but a supporter of Hillary to weigh in.
2) The contrast she looking for is not Hillary vs McCain but Hillary vs Obama.

Again, thanks.

[dmallind]

52. In that case the wife's principal delineations were:

She likes her health care plan better

She thinks Hillary has a more realistic outlook on global politics/foreign policy

The woman thing does matter - and of course the "black thing" matters for many black folks too admitted or not. No reason it shouldn't. Shared experience and outlook matter to people. I'd love an atheist candidate if one had a chance in ....well...hell.

The ability to take on and overcome RW hate matters a lot

Like most people who prefer HRC over BO she sees more substance and definitive details in her proposals

Both of us would be very happy with either candidate winning in November, we just gave a slight edge to different choices for different reasons (in my case principally because I think Obama can win more easily in November).

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. Please post the final count.

Knowing who the female academicians support is important to knowing how we should vote.

It'll also help dispel the rumor that our party dances solely to the tune of academic elites.

While we're at it, I'll get some informal polling about how many garbagemen support Obama.
/snark

I find it amazing that when someone observes that our party has drifted from its working person roots, we can summon any controversy, debate or surprise.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a count of female professors for Hillary is a reasonable proxy for anything more useful than polling hair stylists.

[Buzz Clik]

46. Did you bother to read the opening post?

Christ, l_j. This wasn't meant to suggest that only female academics have brains enough to choose the correct candidate. The point is that this woman wants to know if she's alone in her stance or if, as she suspects, rabid Hillary supporters among female academics are rare.

I'm a bit nonplussed that you extrapolated so far.

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. The person on behalf of whom you were asking...

Clearly thought that her demographic was an important metric of Hillary's fitness, and to some degree, you must have agreed.

I don't think I'd have been unique in finding silly a poll of landscapers in support of a candidate choice, but then again I would not expect to see one.

[Buzz Clik]

55. Well, I told you that you were wrong, but you're insistent that you know better than I.

Do you really think we're stupid enough to think that female academics constitute more than some tiny fraction of 1% of all voters in this country? Hell, the number of female faculty in her discipline is about 5% -- and university professors as a group constitute a teeny portion of the electorate.

Normally, I would treat my "opponent" in a discussion such as this to a nice round of contempt and condescension. However, seeing how I have a degree of respect for your positions on most things, let me just say this: it's annoying to have someone insist that they understand my motivations better than me.

[lumberjack_jeff]

61. Fair enough.

But I think it has nothing to do with stupidity.

When I read a post which argues support for a candidate simply on the basis of the number of people with an alphabet soup after their names, my gut reaction is similar to when I hear "why do you want to punish success? The top 1% in this country are the ones who create all the jobs! It's their money, let 'em keep it!"

Both arguments (imho) are based on opposing varieties of elitism. This party would kick ass if we didn't think being a populist is unseemly.

[Annces]

48. And your being an Obama supporter

has nothing to do with your posting this? I think most female professors have a great deal of empathy for Senator Clinton, having to play a very strict game with mostly male world of professors.

[Buzz Clik]

50. That's funny.

I know that DU is a large board, and we often lose track of those who post with us on various threads. With that in mind, let me say that a) I'm doing this strictly because I was asked; and b) I don't need to hide behind someone else to post my feelings.

[busymom]

57. I am a female science professor who supports Clinton...

...and I would guess based on my conversations with other female professors in my department (and other departments) that a good percentage of my democratic colleagues support Clinton.

[Buzz Clik]

58. Can you give a brief reason or two for your preference over Obama?

[smalll]

62. Yeah, but you know science professors don't really "count" --

All the real professors teach dead Frenchmens' jargon-filled "theory" to barely literate iPodded kids when they have some spare time away from writing articles like "The semiotics of Mr. Ed: simulacra of the inhuman body in late capitalist early broadcasting." Or some such.

[Buzz Clik]

64. Yeah, well, my friend is an engineer.

Hate to burst yer bubble.

[libbygurl]

63. Oh, by the way, here's a piece that reflects a large part of my feelings about HRC:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/3/135326/6174

It's written by a fellow DU member, too!

I'm at work with little bits of time to post, so this one gets as close to the heart of the matter to me, too.