Our Own Dem Party Snookered Us Once Again-The Power Behind Obama

[kelligesq]

From Pelosi and Harry Reid to No Impeachment, and now this:


Clue: Tom Daschle and all the old time dems, who have gotten us nowhere in more than the last 7 years...call it 16 years under Tom Daschle as Senate Minority and Majority leader - which is why we voted him out -he did nothing against Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay , Trent Lott and Frist, IS THE POWER BEHIND OBAMA

So how can Obama be "change", if Tom Daschle is behind him since we voted Tom Daschle out in 2006. Daschle has been working on getting Obama all the Super Delegates (means ex governors, ex house reps, ex senators and old current ones)
for the past two years - Daschle is the go between from Obama to Kennedy and all the others.

And this is the change the dems are offering up to us?

We’ve been snookered

Sure I'm an Edwards supporter, but now we see why the word went out to the MSM not to give him any time and exposure - from the graft taking old time dems. Their platform is NOT populist and sure not for the people.

And hey, I just remembered that Daschle is a lobbyist now!

Vote Edwards- he's still in and wanting votes & delegates - he's entered in all 24 today & has called up to make sure he's in North Dakota and Rhode Island

he's in the races in Feb 19, March and April

in Caucuses Edwards delegates are voting uncommitted so they can vote for him
as delegates at the convention

regular voters should vote for John to give him more delegates at the convention.

Then the other two are forced to take on his platform at the very least,
but with enough delegates
we can have a DRAFT EDWARDS MOVEMENT



"You can fool some of the people some of the time , but not all of the people all the time"

[kelligesq]

1. too bad I only find this out at the last minute...

:puke:

[sandnsea]

2. The Clintons Have Been The Party Leaders

All these people are fighting them because they have completely FUCKED UP, fucked up our country and fucked up our party. There is barely one thing Bush has done that wasn't enabled by legislation the Clintons passed or a policy the Clintons had put in place.

[billbuckhead]

3. So senate leader Tom Daschle had nothing to do with it?

[anamandujano]

4. Hahahahahahahahahaha! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

Sorry.

[KittyWampus]

12. who put McAuliffe into the DNC which proceeded to do jack shit about Election Fraud?

[jackson_dem]

23. What did the highest ranking Democrat in the nation, Tom Daschle, do?

The DNC chair is a political figurehead. Daschle had more real power than any Democrat at the time.

[TheDebbieDee]

32. What did the highest ranking Democrat in the nation, Tom Daschle, do?

Didn't he get "anthraxed" a couple of weeks after 9/11?

[Straight Shooter]

35. Patriot Act was introduced. Daschle opposed. Daschle and Leahy got anthraxed.

bush twisted Daschle's arm a little more.

Patriot Act passed, overwhelmingly.

Mission Accomplished. Thanks for nothing, Tiny Tom.

ETA: Someone might ask for a link for additional in-depth info:

Context of October 2001, Patriot Act Introduced
http://cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a100201patriotact

[jackson_dem]

5. They haven't led the party since 2000

Daschle was the top person in the party when it counted the most this decade.

[kelligesq]

9. And we voted him out because he always capitualted to the pugs

[w13rd0]

20. "We" voted him out?

And replaced him with a Republican? Who is this "We" you speak of?

[JAbuchan08]

100. exactly.

[kelligesq]

7. What does that have to do with Obama being a mole for Daschle & not CHANGE ???

the real change was Edwards who was saying election reform, no lobbyists,
stick it to the HMO Insurance companies by having single payer.

Do you realize Daschle himself is a lobbyist now

Obama's lobbyist.

Geez - all these kids have been fooled

[BlackVelvet04]

11. All of these kids have been told and warned and they

refuse to pull their heads out of the clouds.

[judaspriestess]

44. out of the clouds? you are to nice

its more pull their heads out their asses.......

[BlackVelvet04]

46. I'm trying to lay a bit lower after losing my cool

last night, but you're right. :-)

[sandnsea]

25. I am 50 years old

Edwards passed campaign reform when he had the chance? He did something about lobbyists? He voted against the Clinton status quo?

Edwards never supported single payer. In fact, Obama is the one who said single payer would be a good way to go if we were creating a health plan from scratch.

A lot of people have been fooled, but it's the DLC centrists who have fooled people like you into believing Barack Obama is a Republican.

[kelligesq]

34. nonsense.

[hfojvt]

40. and I am 45 and think Daschle, for all his being a moderate

is still to the left of the Clintons. No more of a horrible spectre than Mondale or Carter IMO.

[kenfrequed]

99. oh hell, double pox

Both Clinton and Obama have the DLC endorsement now, so lets have all of you obamamaniacs and Clintoids back the hell off.

I say step back and take a long hard look at your congressional elections, you might actually be able to get some real progressives in there if you fight hard enough.

As far as the presidency, we must again take part in the quadrannual democratic calesthenics involving holding your nose and pulling the arm.

[blm]

18. BILL Clinton advised Dems to support Bush on his terrorism and Iraq decisions

and they BELIEVED HIM based on HIS access to information on these issues as president.

You certainly have no sense of DIRECTION for your blame.

Why ARE you trying to divert blame FROM the Clintons on every thread? And doing it while calling yourself an Edwards supporter?

Edwards HAS been speaking out figuratively - his main supporters in the unions and people like Michelman have all been endorsing Obama. YOU insist on diverting his voice and diverting all blame where it belongs - on Clintons and their triangulation and decades of cooperating WITH the Bushes.

[jackson_dem]

21. Bill Clinton wasn't the highest ranking Democrat at the time. Daschle was

Daschle represents the very things Obama's supporters think Obama will correct.

The person you are responding to hates the Clintons and is a big Kerryite.

[blm]

27. Bill Clinton's been the TOP Dem figurehead with access to the most information

since he took office in Jan 1993.

To pretend otherwise is ABSURD. Even in his position, Daschle was refused access to the same info that Bill had as president.

Were Dems expected to IGNORE what Clinton believed was necessary in Iraq?

[jackson_dem]

38. Bill left office in Jan 2001

Daschle was the one doing everything in Congress that Obamites now lay at Hillary and Edwards' (a little known freshman senator at the time) feet. :eyes:

[blm]

45. Ex - prez's still get CIA briefings. And Clinton still accessed info that Daschle hadn't seen in

the years from 1993 - 2001, so his word was the most influential.

Bill Clinton URGED Dems to support Bush on this - just as he urged Tony Blair to stand with Bush.

Why pretend otherwise? He was coming from a position where more information was SUPPOSED to matter to those who had less access.

I am so sorry so many Dems in DC ever trusted Clinton.

[kelligesq]

39. omigawd - pug theme specially booooosh - blame it on bill

will you stop thinking your man your man and really read what has been done
by the democratic party power brokers.

You wanted CHANGe - the only change will be the face, not one other thing

Pelosi said there would be change, we voted all the dems in in 2006 - do you see change???????

which is why Congress aproval is 8%

promise of change not kept

[BlackVelvet04]

6. I was just talking to a friend of mine this morning....

it's so obvious something is hinky about this whole thing. Kerry and Kennedy, two senior spokesman for the Democratic party, want to put a rookie, unvetted senator up against the republican machine in an election to finally take back the white house? What's wrong with this picture? Why would they do that?

And I haven't been snookered by the Obama support one bit...I've seen it coming. I can forgive those who are too unexperienced and naive to get it but Kennedy and Kerry know damn good and well what's going to happen if Obama gets the nomination.

[KittyWampus]

8. so now Hillary supporters aren't just whiners, they're conspiracy theorists!

[BlackVelvet04]

15. I bitch, yell, scream and bite but I never whine.....

it's not a conspiracy theory when it's right in front of your eyes. Of course some people are blinded by the fairy dust..

[rodeodance]

49. LoL---and yes that fairy dust gets in the way of seeing/hearing/comprehening!

[BlackVelvet04]

53. ..........

Age and Treachery trump youth and enthusiasm every time. ;-)

[rodeodance]

62. reminds me of Fried green tomatoes--long time since i saw it--there was

that middle aged women--overweight ect-who decided she was going to re-invented herself --assertiveness training and all.
one hot day she was waiting to park her car in the mall shopping area.
then two young chicks-dressed to the tea rushed in took her spot-and were rude. well, she just stepped on the gas-rammed their car a few times, girls were upset==she smirked and basically said the same thing and drove away.
anyway--it was one of those scens that i never forget.

[BlackVelvet04]

70. Oh man, that's one of the BEST movie scenes....

Kathy Bates played that part, didn't she?

[rodeodance]

52. the use of the divisive label does not deminish the premise-that something weird is going on.

[JVS]

105. They'd better get the koolaide ready

[jakem]

13. maybe they arent so much snookered by obama-

as they are distrusting of clintons

[kelligesq]

17. Yes obvious, but nothing will happen - it will be the same old and same old &

and Daschle has maneuvered himself into the Kigmaker....

[sandnsea]

30. DLC centrists attacking our liberal lions

and we're supposed to trust the DLC about who is good for Democrats. There's something hinky all right, and I know exactly where it's coming from.

[kelligesq]

47. DLC stinks, right wing of now centrist DNC -

[sandnsea]

61. The Clintons

So why the hell are you supporting them if their DLC stinks??

[Buzz Clik]

10. Now this is confusing: "we voted him out." You voted Republican and against Daschle?

How'd that turn out for you? Your new Senator has been carrying Bush's water like a rented mule.

Please -- feel free to draft Edwards, but try to keep a lid on the hysteria.

[kelligesq]

51. no we didnt vote republican, but we voted for replacing Daschle leadership

and got nowhere

[sofa king]

102. By voting for Bush's hand-picked best boy, John Thune?

And turning the Senate over to the most criminal political party in modern history?

Are you a South Dakotan, or a Member of Congress? Or do you think that a "vote" is a publicly expressed opinion?

I'm confused, too.

[bidenista]

14. interesting. nt

[cali]

16. Ok. lucy, 'splain Pat Leahy's strong support for Obama.

gonna call him a do nothing spineless dem? How about Teddy and the 11 members of the House Progressive Caucus?

And I never gave Edwards a glance after finding out about his Fortress gig and his making millions and millions in a very short period of time off the very corporations he rages against.

Edwards supports got snookered. Mr Hedge Fund is not the 2nd coming of FDR.

[kelligesq]

24. I'll make it simple. PAC's. Leahy is a good man but also has to be re-elected -dems & the dem party

has pac''s , bank accounts with millions in it each...Rahm Emanuel says if you do this, I will give you this much money for your re-election campaign - Kennedy says if you do this for me on immigration, I will give you 50 thou for re-election

They hold each other in line with .................................

MONEY

[cali]

42. You just demonstrated that you know absolutely nothing about Vermont

politics. Zip. Nada. This is fucking Vermont. We have just about the least expensive races in the entire country. And Pat raises money just fine without Emanuel. Let me tell you a little Vermont story about an old dairy farmer named Fred Tuttle who decided to run for the repuke nomination for the Senate back in the 90s. He was running against a rich carpetbagger from MA named Jack McMullen. McMullen spent hundreds of thousands. Fred spent... $10
That's right; ten bucks. And he won. Then he turned around and endorsed Pat Leahy.

You know jackshit about Vermont.

[kelligesq]

54. Cali, you're usually decent, the 4 letter words are unnecessary -& I'm tired of the

disrespect and unnecessary use of them.

They are aginst DU rules,which the mods have not been enforcing but I'm going to start alerting on every curse word. I'm old enough to be offended by the gratuitous use

[cali]

57. curse words are not disallowed on DU, and yes I swear

but I didn't take kindly to your suggesting that Pat Leahy was playing quid pro quo and was bought off by Rahm Emanuel. It was ignorant and offensive. You stated it as if it was fact, and it's patently untrue. You clearly don't know much about how things work here. Somehow I doubt you've ever stepped foot in my state.

[kelligesq]

63. Cali, it's not to do with your state, it's to do with DC, play ball as a member

of the club or get screwed.

And we're seeing right now how they put the screws to their own.

It's just taken a while to figure out what was going on behind the scenes in the
party.

all of a sudden every old politician who isnt even in office for years comes out
for Obama...and they never even met him?

Daschle has been the go between with all those politicians who ar Super delegates
and Daschle is the hired hand lobbyist and he''s the one who knows them all

how could the one year senator get to all of them...

anyway - Daschle has given an interview on it....saying he was having great fun

[cali]

73. Sorry. I don't do tinfoil and that's all this is.

It's utterly ridiculous. Nothing is the simple black and white picture you're painting about Obama. And the Manchurian candidate shit is just a bore. Learn something about him and his record.

[kelligesq]

95. None are so blind as those who refuse to see - enuf said - you

can crawl back and apologize after he shafts the American people with his
repug Lieberman and Daschle cohorts

[kelligesq]

65. DU Rules of Civility

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[jackson_dem]

How about Ben Nelson and Tim Johnson's strong support of Obama?

An Al From saying he is "proud" of both Obama and Hillary?

Leahy's voting record on four of the five issues Obama's cronies used to swiftboat Edwards is the same as Edwards'. :eyes:

Edwards never said corporations should be shut down. He wasn't Joe Stalin. He was against corporate abuses. St. Obama also has stock in corporations.

[cali]

50. Nelson and Johnson believe that Clinton on top of ticket is bad news

for them. It's that simple. Clinton is not popular in red states- to put it mildly.

And I never said that Edwards wanted to put corporations out of business. Way to miss the point.

Big, big differences between Leahy's record and Edwards. And the war is a huge one.

As for your laughable bullshit about Edwards being swiftboated, that is truly delusional.

[jackson_dem]

59. And they are comfortable with the politics of a President Obama

You left that part out.

Five votes were used to swiftboat Edwards and attack Hillary. Leahy voted with Edwards on four of them (and Kennedy did on three of the five). That is a fact. Obamites never bothered to look at the context of those bills and who voted for them or else they would know this. They merely repeated the talking points injected into the blogosphere by Obama's operatives. I posted several threads taking an overall look on Edwards' six year record. None of the "Edwards is a fraud" fuckers posted in them. None. It is very obvious they were parroting talking points and had no clue about his record and aren't aware that St. Obama also has a record.

[kelligesq]

58. see post # 24

[Carrieyazel]

19. I like your perspective on this. It seems a lot of past losers are endorsing Obama.

Kerry from 2004. Kennedy from 1980. Daschle who lost in 2002 in South Dakota.
Their long tenures in the Senate have not changed the system one bit. And they think Obama will be any different?

[Uncle Sinister]

22. Agreed something stinks in Obamaland

It's just weird how the democratic core has deserted Hillary. And it's shameful how the MSM has anointed Barak. Yesterday on CNN's "Ballot Bowl" in a 60 min. segment, Obama got 18 min of "face time" Clinton got 6. For a dead heat race that differential cannot be explained away. The establishment is trying to throw the election to Barak.

[2rth2pwr]

26. Michelle said he was "stinky and snorey" nt

[kelligesq]

28. let's not call it obamaland, It's the old time party politics of dem pols -&

and I'm kicking myself for it's not dawning on me til 10 minutes ago.

[kelligesq]

67. Yep. The Status Quo - they know what going on- everybody knows but

the public

[meow mix]

29. evil dem snoookerers

everyones out to get us!!

[kelligesq]

31. K & R guys ??? This is an education that needs to be seen &

you'd think I 'd be old enough to get it long before this...

dumb dumb dumb

:banghead:

[surfermaw]

33. Don't for get the help from republicans in helping nominate our candidate

[OHdem10]

36. I have been surprised that DUers have ignored the fact

that the endorsers of Obama, Nelson, Nebraska, MCCaskill, Missouri
and others are Red State Democrats who vote with GOP . McCaskill
just angered some with those last votes. These are people who
are genuinely war supporters. Yet they endorse Obama. Our Party
is going to have a strong Military and National Defense Strategy.

Obamas first supporters were red state Democrats. This tells me
volumes. The DLC is strong and running things.

Go to CharlieRose.com and listen to last night interview with
Harold Ford.

[rodeodance]

56. I have not ignored that fact at all. But most obamacampers will hit you with VILE comments

if you try to link obama and the DLC.

[kelligesq]

72. McKaskell &give immunity - I saw that & the dinos & his unity with Reagan but still didnt get whole

picture

[ISUGRADIA]

37. God Bless John and Good Luck but I don't see Edwards getting

15% in any congressional district or state given his numbers in SC and NV when he was actively campaigning. If he gets 10 out of the 1600 + today he will be lucky.

[Didereaux]

41. shoulda been Biden/Edwards '08 but instead it looks like it will be Mccain/somebug

[kelligesq]

74. McCain-Huckabee - Yeah, Biden or Dodd & Edwards or

Edwards as Attorney General to clean out the FBI and Justice and make it work again for the people and the LAW

[demokatgurrl]

86. McCain/Lieberman. n/t

[mopinko]

43. got a link

for your bullshit?

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. Only some people fell for the ruse.

Many did not, including myself and my husband.

[BlackVelvet04]

55. This isn't our first

rodeo, is it?

[in_cog_ni_to]

64. Nope, it sure isn't.

:(

[jenmito]

60. The idea that "establishment" pols now supporting Obama means he can't be the "change candidate"

is bull. These politicians see someone who's refreshingly honest and new compared to the triangulating Clintons and so they're supporting him. It does NOT make him part of the establishment. It makes him credible. You guys crack me up thinking the only way someone can be a candidate of change is to have teenagers and new members of Congress support them. Sorry-having heavy hitters on your side makes you a more competitive candidate and in no way means we're being "snookered." :eyes:

[kelligesq]

76. Well, we al shall see wont we. I think you're going to be quite

upset somewhere down the line, when his actions dont match his words

[kelligesq]

77. Yep he's going to be another uniter - the pugs & dems in

one party

[jenmito]

92. Yup. There ARE a lot of Repubs. who are unhappy with their choices who like Obama. You got a

problem with that?

[jenmito]

91. I don't think I WILL be upset. If it's Hillary, however, I'm sure I WILL be.

[snappyturtle]

66. I'd like to know how you know that Daschle is the power behind Obama.

On one hand you say T.D. IS the power by Obama and then you say IF he is the power. Which is it?

Just to let you know: I am very sorry John Edwards dropped out of the race. He had a lot to offer.

[kelligesq]

69. read interview with Daschle saying he was having fun - tht he was the go between

between Kennedy and Obama and all the other old timer....

They would call Daxchle- Daschle would call Obama - Daschle would make the
introductios etc etc

They are all super delegates

dont know where I read it...but in last two or threee days

google Obama + Daschle

[Emit]

75. Here, it was posted on DU yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4400299

[snappyturtle]

79. Thank you! I didn't see it yesterday. Sounds as if Obama is fully

aware of this. I guess now my question is: What's so wrong about Daschle's efforts?

[kelligesq]

82. Its the difference between presenting as "our candidate" & "big change' candidate

For me its false advertising, a lie

convincing that this is going to be different than what came before
daring to compare him to RFK and JFK
what a sham

Of course, my generation expects honesty

such an old fashioned thought

[kelligesq]

96. and that's a big difference

[snappyturtle]

97. Well the question is a change from what? The same old, same old?

Or a change BACK to older priciples not unlike those of JFK. As I recall, being sixty years old, JFK offerred ideals to the people. He gave us things to think about....not unlike Obama. For example: what can one do for his country or the idea of what the future may bring if we collectively change our mindset. Either of these is much different from what we've been experiencing the last seven if not thirty years. IMHO

edit: punctuation and wording

[Emit]

68. A single voter voting 'uncommitted' in a caucus Does Not guarantee a delegate for Edwards

This is how I understand the caucus rules to apply -- please correct me if this is inaccurate or if your state does things differently. This is how it was explained to me in NV, who organized their caucuses after the Iowa model.

First, a group of uncommitted voters have to be viable in order to count, as I understand it, just like any candidate preference group. If an uncommitted group is viable, meaning they have the % required (15% in most cases), then they may as well be a group of Edwards supporters, not uncommitted.

Also, in a caucus, each viable group gets to nominate their delegates (the number is based on the percentage of the viable group to the whole) -- you have to make sure that those delegates will support the group's chosen candidate and follow through to the proceeding levels -- attending the county, state and national conventions, repsectively, to put forth their candidate.

Because Edwards has officially dropped out -- it is doubtful that the powers that be running the county and state party caucuses will allow him to remain a choice for voters.

[kelligesq]

78. Thanks Emit - First:

Edwards did not drop out - he suspended
It is the MSM who keeps saying he has dropped out
He has been calling Secs of State to make sure he remains on ballot in the last
week - not sounding like drop out but MSM wants that believed.

next my state is not caucus either
I have been following what Washington State is doing...asking their people to go
to convention uncommitted, then I guess the powers cant stop their vote, but I'm only guessing since I just following what Wash State caucus goers are saying




This is recent poster on his site.

[Emit]

81. But, if they can keep a viable Edwards group together, I think it would have more impact

That's kind of what I was trying to explain as far as a caucus is concern. They may as well just get as many Edwards supporters to the caucus sites to keep their groups viable. Caucusing "uncommitted" seems unnecessary. But, I would like to know how other caucus states do it and have other DUers from these caucus states weigh in on this matter.

I caucused for Edwards, and despite my efforts, my group was not viable. Going uncommitted was not an option either, because in order for an uncommitted group to receive any delegates, they had to be viable in number, too.

I was forced to either go with Obama, Clinton, or just not cast a preference ballot.

As far as the Edwards suspending versus dropping out issue, I've been told that essentially, it's the same -- but I really don't know. The key now, though, is that if Edwards wants his name to remain on the ballot, then his supporters definitely need to caucus and vote for him if his name is still there -- if not, going uncommitted is of no help.

But, I have to also stress that the powers that be within each states' Dem party will be a potential obstacle in this matter -- our Party required us to have a section for each candidate, regardless of whether they had officially dropped out or not -- I made signs for everyone, including Dodd, Richardson, etc. In our precinct, only four groups formed -- Obama, Clinton, Edwards and Kucinich. From there, it was narrowed down to Obama and Clinton.

I have no idea what other county and state caucuses will do in the manner -- whether they will allow Edwards' delegates to caucus for Edwards or not. If they don't, then at that point perhaps an uncommitted group will be a strategic move.

[kelligesq]

83. Apparently some caucuses are not out in the open. Ocelot said his

caucus is private, not standing out in the open, and they vote by anonymous paper
ballot.

[bvar22]

87. Ocelot is an attractive "she" in Minnesota.

I have had the pleasure to Caucus in Minnesota, and it is done by secret paper ballot, which are hand counted every round.

I found this to be the MOST democratic way to choose our candidate.
No one wins with a simple plurality.
In the Caucus, you keep voting until a clear majority wins.

Primarys SUCK when there are more than 2 candidates.

[kelligesq]

84. Emit, I posteed this thread yesterday somewhere here on "Suspend"

I spoke to an attorney at our local Democratic Executive Committee.

He says John Edwards wording of "suspending" was highly unusual.

(he thought John didnt have the money, but he does and more to come
with matching funds in March. He's for Hillary but mentioned John
has the best health plan!)

"Yes, it means he could come back in" he says

So "Suspended Not Ended" is the accurate slogan,

He also advises that delegates at the convention could draft John Edwards -

Some caucus goers are voting "Uncommitted" so they'd be free to vote Edwards at

the convention.

its more important than ever that we vote Edwards or Caucus goers voting uncommitted

so that John can garner delegates



remind people they can vote for John Edwards, he's on their ballot,

get John Edwards the votes to get him delegates



Go Edwardians for John Edwards, For Populism, For This Country, For Your Family and for Yourself.

:bounce: Go for it John

Suspended Not Ended

[kelligesq]

85. K & Recs please ?

[ecstatic]

71. iTZ alL conspiraceeez...series!1!

:eyes:

[kelligesq]

80. When You Dont Have Freedom Of The Press, You Dont Have Freedom

When You Dont Have Freedom Of The Press, You Dont Have Freedom





The press and media, known locally as Main Stream Media or MSM now chooses who our candidates will be in our "free elections". How? They serve up THEIR favorites as ordered by their corporate ownership for our viewing consumption and ignore any other candidates, essentially blockading information, message , and appearances. These are the same people who were cheerleaders for an irrational and unprovoked attack on a sovereign country, Iraq. Only when they
finally realized the public was getting mad as hell, did they stop cheerleading
this war.

We aren't getting news, we're being fed propaganda and censored filtered news by
five massive corporations who own all the radio, newspapers, magazines and tv outlets and are also involved in manufacturing armaments for the wars.

What are you going to do about it?

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT ?

[MissDeeds]

88. It's disgusting, isn't it

Jesus, what next?

:kick:

[bvar22]

89. K&R

But this is no shock.

The Democratic Party Powerbrokers have been rigging this election since 2004 (before?)

*Where DID Obama come from?

*HOW did this unknown merit a featured speaker position at Convention 2004?

*Is it possible to come this FAR so FAST without the backing of a well oiled and well financed machine?

*Has he EVER really sat in his Senate seat? (No..He was too busy running for President)


Give the people the illusion of a choice, but nothing really changes.
If a REAL threat to the existing PowerStructure appears, use the Corporate friends in the Media to swat them down.

More of the same....:sigh:

I despair of EVER seeing true reforms in the Democratic Party.
If you Work for a Living, you are just plain fucked.

Maybe it is time to just kill it and start all over.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[pat_k]

90. As long as Dems cling to their irrational and immobilizing. . .

. . .beliefs they'll be incapable of effecting change.

To effect change, they must be willing to go for what they know the American people want, instead of seeking only what they think the outlaw factions will let them have.

To effect change you need to inspire hope and action. Obama may say the words, but those words ring hollow because he refuses to fight for the People's Government and the Constitution by calling on the House to impeach. As long as he remains committed to the fantasy of "bipartisanship" with war criminals, it's all just empty rhetoric. (And people see it. All those "inspired" young voters we keep hearing about are actually http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-youth5feb05,0,5035991.story">Low on hope.)

As long as our so-called "leaders" believe in the mythical backlash beast; as long as cower in fear of being called "names" by the war criminals and their followers; as long as keep declaring pre-emptive surrender ("can't win; won't fight"); as long as they keep telling the most engaged and active Americans -- the ones who are currently demanding impeachment -- to give up and go home; as long as they keep proclaiming their powerlessness; as long as they refuse to stand up for REAL American values, they will keep getting "beaten" (and "beaten up") by the bullies, and they will keep confirming the pervasive "weak Dem" image.


At the moment the public's disdain for Democrats is trumped by their fury at what the Bush regime and their Republican minions have done to our nation. It could be enough to put a Dem in the White House, but time will tell.

Their impeachophobia is driven by the same false beliefs that have kept them immobilized for decades. Our fight for impeachment, win or lose, is so critical because as we fight for impeachment we are chipping away at those self-defeating, false beliefs. And we are showing people that it's not really about THEM. There is no savior coming to "save us." This is our fight to either 1) tranform our current "leaders" into champions, or 2) find people to run against them in primaries -- people who know the meaning of an oath and who know that the folks out here -- We the People -- are the Real power brokers.

[kelligesq]

93. yep

[kelligesq]

94. kicking for knowledge , asking for recs

[krkaufman]

98. So who, exactly, is Obama supposed to enlist to help him convince ...

... the superdelegates to join him at the convention?

Wouldn't your outrage be more aptly directed at the very existence of the undemocratic superdelegate factor in our primaries? Given that superdelegates are part of the primary process, should Obama simply sit passively and let them be jawboned by his opponents into supporting them?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

101. shhhh!

stop making sense you!

[publicatlarge]

103. Excellent discussion and OT

Does anyone think there will be much more information coming out on these issues and this will have a major impact at a brokered convention?

I believe we have not yet seen the 'change' many of us are so desperate for.
Thanks, kelligesq. Much!

[earth mom]

104. It's obvious that both Obama & Hillary are OWNED-bought & paid for by Corporations.

Just look at their campaign contributions.

What was John Edwards saying about the status quo?

They just painted it pink and put a bow on it!!!


Wake Up People & Smell The Corruption!!!

The big boys are PLAYING YOU with all the B.S. talk about "hope & change"! :eyes: