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Twenty years of two-family rule is enough. My entire adult life governed by Clinton-Bush.

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:30 PM
Original message
Twenty years of two-family rule is enough. My entire adult life governed by Clinton-Bush.
I have lived under the executive governance of the same two political dynasty families since I was ten years old. And either a Clinton or a Bush has been in the white house in some capacity since I was two years old.

Why would you expect me to go cast a vote in favor of four or potentially eight more years of the same "pro-business pragmatist" (what Clinton called himself) Oligarchy? By the time it was over, I could potentially be almost forty.

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, PLEASE G-d don't make me live under another President Clinton! I 'm begging you!
Edited on Tue Feb-05-08 02:32 PM by in_cog_ni_to
The awesome Clinton record:

longest economic expansion in American history--a record 115 months of economic expansion
More than 22 million new jobs: more than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration
Highest home ownership in American history
Made the Federal government smaller (a feat matched only by Harry Truman; if you like small government, vote Democratic)
Lowest unemployment in 30 years: unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000; unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women was the lowest in more than 40 years
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
Lowest crime rate in 26 years.
Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
Higher incomes at all levels: after falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family's income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation; all income brackets experienced double-digit growth; the bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years: the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent in 1999--the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union: efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt: under Clinton, we were on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009; what a difference a stolen election makes...
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Lowest government spending in three decades
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
More families owned stock than ever before
Most New Jobs Ever Created Under a Single Administration: Republicans really chew the rug when you mention this one, so it's worth repeating constantly
Median Family Income Up $6,000 since 1993
Unemployment at Its Lowest Level in More than 30 Years
Highest Home ownership Rate on Record
7 Million Fewer Americans Living in Poverty
Largest Surplus Ever
Lower Federal Government Spending: after increasing under the previous two administrations, federal government spending as a share of the economy was cut from 22.2 percent in 1992 to 18 percent in 2000--the lowest level since 1966
The Most U.S. Exports Ever: between 1992 and 2000, U.S. exports of goods and services grew by 74 percent, or nearly $500 billion, to top $1 trillion for the first time
Lowest Inflation since the 1960s: inflation was at the lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration, averaging 2.5 percent, down from 4.6 percent during the previous administration
The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent
The poverty rate for single mothers was the lowest ever
The African American and elderly poverty rates dropped to their lowest level on record
The Hispanic poverty rate dropped to its lowest level since 1979
Lowest Poverty Rate for Single Mothers on Record: under President Clinton, the poverty rate for families with single mothers fell from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 35.7 percent in 1999, the lowest level on record
Smallest Welfare Rolls Since 1969: between January 1993 and September of 1999, the number of welfare recipients dropped by 7.5 billion (a 53 percent decline) to 6.6 million. In comparison, between 1981-1992, the number of welfare recipients increased by 2.5 million (a 22 percent increase) to 13.6 million people
Lowest Federal Income Tax Burden in 35 Years: Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family dropped to their lowest level in 35 years
Higher Incomes even after Taxes and Inflation: real after-tax incomes grew by an average of 2.6 percent per year for the lower-income half of taxpayers between 1993 and 1997, while growing by an average of 1.0 percent between 1981 and 1993
AGAINST TERRORISM

# PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator of anti-terrorist efforts.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold the Al Qaeda millennium hijacking and bombing plots.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to kill the Pope.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Boston airport.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.
# Bill Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).
# Bill Clinton brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.
# Bill Clinton did not blame the Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after Bush left office. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.
# Bill Clinton named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to tighten airport security. (Remember, this is before 911) The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to allow for better tracking of terrorist funding. It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to add tagents to explosives, to allow for better tracking of explosives used by terrorists. It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.
# Bill Clinton increased the military budget by an average of 14 per cent, reversing the trend under Bush I.
# Bill Clinton tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.
# Bill Clinton detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries.
# Bill Clinton created national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.
# Of Clinton's efforts says Robert Oakley, Reagan Ambassador for Counterterrorism: "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama".
# Paul Bremer, current Civilian Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley as he believed the Bill Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden.
# Barton Gellman in the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Bill Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort".
http://liberalslikechrist.org/about/clinton.html
ON THE ENVIRONMENT
Bill Clinton issued an Executive Order on Environmental Justice to ensure that low-income citizens and minorities do not suffer a disproportionate burden of industrial pollution. Launched pilot projects in low-income communities across the country to redevelop contaminated sites into useable space, create jobs and enhance community development.

President Bill Clinton sought permanent funding of $1.4 billion a year through the Lands Legacy initiative to expand federal efforts to save America's natural treasures and provide significant new resources to states and communities to protect local green spaces and protect ocean and coastal resources. Won $652 million for Lands Legacy in the FY 2000 budget, a 42 percent increase.

Launched effort to protect over 40 million acres of "roadless areas," which include some of America's last wild places. Dramatically improved management of our national forests with an ambitious new science-based agenda that places greater emphasis on recreation, wildlife and water quality, while reforming logging practices to ensure steady, sustainable supplies of timber and jobs. Balanced the preservation of old-growth stands with the economic needs of timber-dependent communities through the Pacific Northwest Forest Plan.

Adopted a uniform tailpipe standard to passenger cars, SUVs and other light-duty trucks, producing cars that are 77 percent cleaner -- and light-duty trucks up to 95 percent cleaner -- than those on the road today. Set new standard to reduce average sulfur levels in gasoline by up to 90 percent. Once fully implemented in 2030, these measures will prevent 43,000 premature deaths and 173,000 cases of childhood respiratory illness each year, and reduce emissions by the equivalent to removing 164 million cars from the road.

# Approved strong new clean air standards for soot and smog that could prevent up to 15,000 premature deaths a year and improve the lives of millions of Americans who suffer from respiratory illnesses. Defending the standards against legal assaults by polluters.

# Accelerating Toxic Waste Cleanups. Completed cleanup at 515 Superfund sites, more than three times as many as the previous two administrations, with cleanup of more than 90 percent of all sites either completed or in progress. Secured $1.4 billion in FY 2000 to continue progress toward cleaning up 900 Superfund sites by 2002.

# Providing Safe Drinking Water: Proposed and signed legislation to strengthen the Safe Drinking Water Act and ensure that our families have healthy clean tap water. Required America's 55,000 water utility companies to provide regular reports to their customers on the quality of their drinking water.

# Established EPA's Drinking Water State Revolving Fund (DWSRF) that provides grants to States to finance priority drinking water projects that meet Clean Water Act mandates. To date, the DWSRFs have provided $1.9 billion in loans to communities.

# Awarded nearly $200 million in Department of Agriculture (USDA) loans and grants for over 100 safe drinking water projects in rural areas of 40 states. USDA grants and loans target rural communities plagued by some of the nation's worst water quality and dependability problems.

# Expanded Safe Drinking Water Act protections to protect 40 million additional Americans in small communities from potentially dangerous microbes, including Cryptosporidium, in their drinking water.

# Ensuring Clean Water. Launched the Clean Water Action Plan to help clean up the 40 percent of America's surveyed waterways still too polluted for fishing and swimming. Secured $3.9 billion since 1998, a 16 percent increase, to help states, communities and landowners in reducing polluted runoff, enhancing natural resource stewardship, improving citizens' right to know, and protecting public health.

# Strengthening Communities' Right to Know. Strengthened the public's right to know about chemicals released into their air and water by partnering with the chemical industry and the environmental community in an effort to provide complete data on the potential health risks of the 2,800 most widely used chemicals. Nearly doubled the number of chemicals that industry must report to communities, while expanding the number of facilities that must report by 30 percent.

# Expanded the community right to know about releases of 27 persistent bio-accumulative toxins (including mercury, dioxin, and PCBs). These highly toxic chemicals are especially risky because they do not break down easily and are known to accumulate in the human body.

# Secured $83 million in FY 2000 for two major new efforts to restore salmon in the Pacific Northwest: $58 million for the Pacific Coastal Salmon Recovery Fund, which provides resources for states and tribes to protect and rebuild salmon stocks; and $25 million to implement the historic Pacific Salmon Treaty with Canada, which established two regional funds to improve fisheries management and enhance bilateral scientific cooperation between the two countries and provides funding to buy back fishing permits in Washington.
# Expanding Wildlife Refuges. Added 57,000 acres, including lands along the last free-flowing section of the Columbia River, to the Saddle Mountain National Wildlife Refuge to protect salmon habitat in Washington.

# Forging Partnerships to Protect Habitat. Completed 255 major Habitat Conservation Plans (HCPs), compared to 14 before the Administration took office, to protect more than 20 million acres of private land and over 170 threatened and endangered species. These voluntary agreements protect habitat while providing landowners the certainty they need to effectively manage their lands.

# Strengthening Protections for Wildlife. Signed legislation that strengthens protections for wildlife by mandating that the most important use of our nation's wildlife refuges is giving refuge to migratory birds and other animals reliant on this rich system of natural habitat.

Protecting our Oceans and Coasts

# Creating Comprehensive Oceans Policy. Directed the development of key recommendations for strengthening federal oceans policy for the 21st century and appointed a high-level task force to oversee the implementation of those recommendations. Convened a National Ocean Conference in June 1998 that brought together government experts, business executives, scientists, environmentalists, elected officials and the public to examine opportunities and challenges in restoring and protecting our ocean resources.

# Strengthening Our National Marine Sanctuaries. Secured a funding increase of over 100% to better support national marine sanctuaries -- homes to coral reefs, kelp forests, humpback whales, and loggerhead turtles. Supporting the five-year Sustainable Seas Expeditions to explore, study and document ways to better protect underwater resources.

# Preserving Coral Reefs. Issued an Executive Order to expand protection of coral reefs and their ecosystems to address issues of coral reef management, expansion of marine protected areas and increased protections for coral reef species.

# Protecting Marine Mammals. Led negotiations resulting in a multilateral agreement to protect dolphins in the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean. Issued new standards to protect the endangered northern right whale from injuries from ships by instituting a first-ever ship reporting requirement in two areas of right whale critical habitat. Fought for creation of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, an area of more than 12 million square miles off the coast of Antarctica.

# Banning Ocean Dumping of Toxic Waste. Led the world in calling for a global ban on ocean dumping of low-level radioactive waste. The U.S. was the first nuclear power to advocate the ban.

Introduced "Better America Bonds" to generate $10.75 billion in bond authority over five years to preserve open space, improve water quality and clean up abandoned and contaminated properties known as brownfields. Local communities can work together in partnerships with land trust groups, environmentalists, business leaders and others to develop innovative solutions to their community's development challenges.

# Provided leadership critical to successful negotiation of the Kyoto Protocol, which sets strong, realistic targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and establishes flexible, market-based mechanisms to achieve them as cost-effectively as possible.

# Investing in Clean Energy Research. Won more than $1 billion in FY 1999 and in FY 2000 for the Climate Change Technology Initiative, a program of clean energy research and development that will save energy and consumers money. Extended the tax credits for wind and biomass energy production through 2001, reducing emissions and reliance on imported oil.

# Growing Clean Energy Technologies. Issued an Executive Order to coordinate federal efforts to spur the development and use of bio-based technologies, which can convert crops, trees and other "biomass" into a vast array of fuels and materials. Set a goal of tripling our use of bioenergy and bioproducts by 2010 to reduce annual greenhouse gas emissions by up to 100 million tons a year -- the equivalent of taking 70 million cars off the road.

# Improving Scientific Understanding. Increased funding for the United States Global Change Research Program to more than $1.7 billion in FY 2000 to provide a sound scientific understanding of both the human and natural forces that influence the Earth's climate system. This record research budget continues strong support for the "Carbon Cycle Initiative" begun last year to improve our understanding of the role of farms, forests, and other natural or managed lands in capturing carbon.

# Energy Efficiency Standards for Appliances. Issued new energy efficiency standards for refrigerators, refrigerator-freezers, freezers and room air conditioners that will save consumers money and reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and dependence on foreign oil. The new standards will cut the average appliance's energy usage by 30 percent and save more than seven quadrillion BTUs of energy over the next 30 years, more than seven times the annual energy consumption of the entire state of Arkansas.

# Promoting federal Energy Efficiency. Issued an Executive Order directing federal agencies to reduce energy use in buildings 35 percent by 2010, reducing annual greenhouse gas emissions by the equivalent of taking 1.7 million cars off the road and saving taxpayers over $750 million a year. Forged new partnerships with industry to develop and promote energy-saving cars, homes and consumer products with the potential to save Americans hundreds of millions of dollars in energy bills and significantly curb greenhouse gas pollution.
http://www.environmentalcaucus.org/gore.html
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. And it will all be magically recreated, perfectly intact, if we elect HRC.
It will be as if nothing happened in the last 8 years.

:eyes:
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. It would be better than a McCain Presidency which is what we'll get if your guy is the nominee.
:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Cut and paste is so juvenille. Of course Clinton did some good things.
In the eight years he was president, he managed to sign his name to some good bills. Wow. Shocker.

He was however, a self-proclaimed pro-business pragmatist who engaged in aggressive deregulation that has had terrible results, there wasn't a single time during his entire administration that he ever said no or put limits on the demands of his constituency: big business. He brought us DOMA, don't ask don't tell which was a disaster, and launched an all out assault on poor people, demolishing welfare (ended it, by ending AFDC which has been around and considered part of our moral duty as a just society since FDR -- Bill Clinton: I have "ended welfare as we know it." That's a quote.)

Those things are bigger than any cut and paste list of garbage you can spew onto the screen. You might want to try a non-biased site as well for a more accurate analysis of accomplishments that doesn't read like campaign literature.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. A DUer compiled the list. If you can't handle the truth, too bad.
Edited on Tue Feb-05-08 02:47 PM by in_cog_ni_to
A Clinton presidency would be 100 times better than a McCain presidency which is what we'll get if Obama is the nominee. The MSM cannot WAIT to release all the garbage they have on him!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. The America of the '90s will be recreated, perfectly intact, if we elect HRC.
It'll be as if the past 8 years never happened.

:eyes:
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griffi94 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. and camelot will return
if obama gets the nomination...right
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Can you link to a post where I ever said that?
I'll answer that: You can't.

So STFU.
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PermanentRevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. And?
Whether or not Clinton was a good President is irrelevant to the question of whether political dynasties are detrimental to politics on the whole. Personally, I feel it leads to the entrenchment of an upper echelon of political families, further decreasing the ability of true outsider candidates to break through into the national political spectrum, which in turn creates a limiting effect on political change - the diminished gene pool effect. Clinton is, by and large, regarded as a very successful President. Hillary may be a great President as well, if she gets the chance. That still doesn't change my opinion that the existence of political dynasties in general is a bad thing for the growth of national politics.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Hillary being the President is better than a McCain Presidency....any day. n/t
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PermanentRevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Agreed.
And if all you're looking at is the short-term, that's all there is to it. However, I'm talking about the long-term political spectrum, and I believe wholeheartedly that ALL political dynasties create an unbalanced playing field, which I feel is detrimental to an open political system. Hell, I don't believe that ANY politician should be eligible for re-election, regardless of how successful they are. Just imagine how much more would get done if politicians weren't spending 75% of their time in office working to get re-elected. (Note: Made-up percentage, but valid point nonetheless) I'm in favor of anything that decreases the influence of career politicians and opens up the political race to more options.

I want to be clear, I'll vote for Hillary over McCain if it comes to that. But I still won't be happy about granting more power to a political dynasty in the process.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Bush...Clinton....Psycho Bush.....Hillary Rodham.
:) How's that? Feel better?
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PermanentRevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Creepy Weasel Bush...Big Dog Clinton... Psycho Ijit Bush... Hillary Rodham *mumbleClintonmumble*
:)

I'll bite my tongue for now and work for a Democratic victory in '08 regardless of the candidate or my own feelings on the long-term ramifications.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Bite it hard!
LOL! :hi:
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PermanentRevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. OWW!!!
Now see what ya made me do?

Hope you're happy...

:toast:


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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. I'm sorry....here:
Have a beer...you'll feel better in no time!:beer:

:toast:
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
67. WIth Hillary comes loss of democratic congress
so how is that better?

She's DLC anyway.
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. bookmarked!!
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. Bill Clinton didn't do enough! Didn't you know that?
By the way, on the last point is that EO still in effect or did Bushwad cancel it?
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. And all if it gone after 2 years of Bush.
I'd like a Democrat who makes a more lasting impact on America next time.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. voting for clinton for 8 years should be plenty enough..
although ill continue if the party makes me lol. plz win obama.
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shaniqua6392 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. So what.
I mean really...so what? We should pick the most qualified candidate. I am sorry, but I have heard this crap more than once. I don't find it a good enough reason to vote for Obama. I would vote for either candidate myself. But I would never say I will not vote for her due to that reason. It is not her fault that two Bush's got into office and her husband was President. This should not be held against her as a reason not to vote for her. I can think of other reasons besides that one.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Um, it is a valid point...Plutocracy...
Edited on Tue Feb-05-08 02:41 PM by snooper2
JUST SAY NO!

BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
BUSH :puke:
BUSH :puke:
BUSH :puke:
BUSH :puke:
BUSH :puke:
BUSH :puke:
BUSH :puke:
BUSH :puke:
CLINTON :puke:
CLINTON :puke:
CLINTON :puke:
CLINTON :puke:
CLINTON :puke:
CLINTON :puke:
CLINTON :puke:
CLINTON :puke:

from wikipedia
Classically, a plutocracy was an oligarchy, which is to say a government controlled by the wealthy few. Usually this meant that these ‘plutocrats’ controlled not only the executive, legislative and judicial aspects of government, but also most of the natural resources, including the armed forces. To a certain degree, there are still some situations in which private corporations and wealthy individuals may exert such strong influence on governments, that the effect can arguably be compared to a plutocracy.



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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Do you really actually believe...
that of all the hundreds of millions of eligible Americans out there that the most qualified person for president just happens to be the wife of a former president?
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not clear on why that matters.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. it might be different if there were more difference between the two
families, but this is like a fuckin' monarchy.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Right. Because if we break the spell, the GOP will NEVER run another bush.
Edited on Tue Feb-05-08 02:38 PM by Straight Shooter
No. They'll turn right around and claim that it's okay to run another bush, since the chain was broken. See? We will have handed them the victory to that argument on a silver platter.

Also remember that the Clintons are related by marriage, not by blood. BIG difference.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. Just say no to Oligarchy.
Let's show the world that we have a REAL democracy, not a sham in which only a select few elite families can rule.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Ah Bill that elite trailer park kid NT
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. ding
we have a winner
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. If Hil gets the nom, The General voting public will agree with you in November......
and unfortunately...we could have won we a vote for change, but instead, they will win with a vote for change their way.

Really depressing! :(
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is the BEST reason why someone should NOT vote for Senator Hillary Clinton...
:eyes: Go cast your vote for Barack Hussein Obama...no one is forcing you not to.

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Did you really just play the "middle name card" straight from the Fox News playbook?
Right here on DU.

Wow.... just wow.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. What "middle name card"? Hussein is his middle name. Are you ashamed of it?
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #23
54. sigh
:eyes:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. There are worse things than another Clinton White House term.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. How does a 3rd Term for Bill Clinton's DLC to have a stranglehold on staffing OUR Executive Branch?
That scares the living shit out of me. :nuke:
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. The probability of the DLC running the DNC...
is the thing that creeps me out about Hillary, who isn't a particularly objectionable candidate to me otherwise. They would work to undo all the good Dean has done and tried to do for more progressive candidates and citizen involvement. I have read that the DLC also thinks they own Obama, and perhaps they do, but I see that as much less of a sure thing with him.
Where is Edwards when I need him. Sigh!
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. The DLC is running out of steam, and no way will they replace Dean.
Dean proved himself in 2004. If we are fortunate enough to get back the White House in 2008, the DLC will not have the power they used to have.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. I seem to remember Rahm Emmanuel...
writing a whole book bragging about how his candidates made the difference (and they did; we should have won more seats than we did). Harold Ford expects to take over the DNC or influence the pick; they've all been trying to get rid of Dean for quite a while. They want all that state money to fill their consultant pockets back in D.C.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Not nearly as much as the thought of a Republican in the White House again.
With the possible exception of Lieberman, no Democrat is even within shouting distance of any Republican on the "bad" scale.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Indeed there are.
I think few here except the real :crazy: would dispute this. However, the problem her campaign has had, especially with people like me, is that they haven't convinced me that an Obama presidency is one of the things that would be worse. And I do not like the political dynasty thing AT ALL, which is why I sorta rolled my eyes at all of the pro-Obama people jumping for joy over a Kennedy endorsement.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. That's fair. I don't see a big difference between Obama and Hillary.
I'm concerned about the really nasty low-down attacks on Hillary - especially those who say her presidency would be as bad or worse than a Republican's. That's crazy talk.

I'll vote for whomever gets the Democratic nomination in the GE. Obama or Hillary - either one has my support.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. You're right. No more dynasties.
Democracy requires fresh faces and fresh ideas.
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Uncle Sinister Donating Member (503 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. anyone who uses the phrase "Clinton-Bush" is too fucking stupid to be taken seriously
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
52. Yup. n/t
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
56. Yes. Facts are stupid.
I said my entire adult life has been governed by clinton-bush. That's just a fact. We do live in the reality based community after all? Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush. That covers my entire adult life.

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
29. Most grown-ups prefer the candidate they believe is best qualified.(eom)
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #29
62. So do I.
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
42. So even if she's the best candidate for the job, step aside because your names Clinton?
I don't think so.

I don't agree with her on everything. But I certainly don't get pulled into this dynasty bullshit.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
43. How many were willing to re-elect Clinton in 2000 if he was 3rd term eligible?
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #43
55. After the end of AFDC? Not me.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. Bill Clinton didn't rule - he led and governed
Do not conflate him with the Bush Crime Family. No one in his family consorted with the Nazis, or ran the CIA, or legalized warrantless wire taps against innocent citizens, or ran up a 9 trillion dollar debt, or ignored warnings that NYC was going to be attacked. He didn't submit reams of signing statements, or tell his subordinates to lie, or authorize torture. Stop the smearing.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #44
57. Just because they aren't the same doesn't change the fact that two-family twenty year rule...
..troubles me. It troubles me even if one family was evil and the other was jesus fucking christ incarnate. I don't think its best for democracy.
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
46. the same families have been in power since I was born. It doesnt make sense whatsoever.
i find the prospect a bit depressing tbh...
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
47. this constant conflating of Bush/Clinton is the most
underhanded tactic being used by Obama supporters, IMO.

I really hope this stuff isn't coming from the Obama campaign.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #47
59. You read in the conflating. My point is that twenty years of two family rule troubles me.
It troubles me even if one family is bad and other other is gods gift to humanity. My entire adult life has seen America led by Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush - now we want to nominate another Clinton?

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. if she is the best candidate running
and I think she is

then I don't understand the problem

and, yes, when you mention the Bushes in the same context you are conflating the two.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
48. This is one of the most notorious arguments by Republicans to talk people out of voting for Hillary
Amazing how often we hear this same spiel on DU by Democrats (*cough cough*).
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PermanentRevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Doesn't mean it's an invalid point, though...
I've written my opinions above. Though Republicans are cynically using the argument as a smokescreen to detract from Hillary's campaign, there's still a very valid case to be made that political dynasties as a whole hinder democracy in general by concentrating power into a smaller elite group of families, rendering it harder for those outside the "inner circle" to break through on the national level.

Joking or not, I don't much care for the insinuation that those of us who voice concerns about extending the current political dynasties are secretly agents of the Republican party.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #48
60. Call it whatever you want. I don't think twenty years of two family rule is good for the country..
..I don't care if both families are not the same or one was better than the other.
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
49. There really is something to be said for your argument
Edited on Tue Feb-05-08 03:57 PM by Shine
I'm an Edwards supporter and voted for him because the primaries are for voting one's conscience...but I totally get what you're saying.

There was a funny political sign I saw recently that made this point, saying:

"The White House is not a timeshare!"


:D

on edit: that said, however, a Clinton presidency would be infinitely better than a McCain presidency. I'm happy to get behind whoever gets the Dem nomination, obviously, and as a mother, I would be thrilled to see a woman as a president...a model of power for my daughter AND teenage son to see. :thumbsup:
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #49
61. Agreed. Of course I would vote for Clinton over McCain.
But I would be extremely depressed about it, and don't expect that I would do much for the campaign beyond vote.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
58. I just don't want to DIE with a Clinton or Bush in the WH !! Enough already !
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
63. If they can crush the youth and optimists vote they'll prevail.
The thing I find a little sad about all this is that the Clinton's will have to crush the biggest movement of my lifetime to win this nomination. I vote Democrat, and will support whomever gets the nomination, but I wouldn't get over what I believe would be an opportunity of a generation.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
64. the most flamingly idiotic argument ever proffered
there is no Clinton dynasty. The bush family, starting with grandpa Prescott, is a multigenerational "dynasty"

Bill Clinton, raised by a drunken stepfather, is no dynasty.

IF Hillary Clinton were to be elected, that would make a second person named Clinton. Not a dynasty.

Whatever the merits of her candidacy, the presence in you lifetime of the bush dynasty has nothing whatever to do with them. Think of a better argument - or just crawl back under your rw talking point rock.

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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
66. Agree.
I am unable to ever pull the lever for another Clinton or Bush. I'm done with the lot of em.

New blood, please.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
68. It looks bad - whether it actually makes a difference or not
To foreigners, it looks like America is run by insiders and that obtaining Presidencies are a matter of getting enough fat cats in smoke-filled back rooms to back the big name as part of an "I'll wash your hands, you wash mine" mutual support system between the rich and powerful. You know, maybe that's how America is actually run, when I think about it.
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