Sen John Kerry (D-Lost to Bush) coming up on MSNBC!

[Clintonista2]

after the break.

[ShortnFiery]

1. And everything about the way you introduce this topic, reflects your candidate

... to a tee. :evilgrin:

[SoFlaJet]

5. yea John Kerry got a lot of help from YOUR candidate

in his defense against the Swift Boat Liars-oh yea and then her throwing him under the bus with her "friend" John McCain an hour after botching a punchline-what a scumbag thing to do-she lost me that day forever

[jackson_dem]

11. It's Hillary's fault Kerry didn't defend himself against the swiftboaters?

:wtf:

[SoFlaJet]

19. she didn't come out and defend him

her and Bill's silence was deafening-they were already triangulating for the '08 election

[jackson_dem]

26. Why were they supposed to defend someone who wouldn't defend himself?

And why do they have a special responsibility to babysit Kerry? Where was St. Obama during the swiftboating if you are going to blame others for Kerry's big mistake?

[SoFlaJet]

42. because he's a democrat

and Kerry DID defend himself-not as fast as he should have perhaps but apparently the Clinton's were OK with the Bush agenda, she DID vote for Bush's war did she not?...Kerry was NOT alright with the Neocons and Obama isn't either-Hillary? there are still too many questions for a LOT of us true progressives.

[jackson_dem]

45. So why didn't St. Obama defend Kerry?

Kerry voted for the war just like Hillary.

[SoFlaJet]

51. and admitted he made a mistake

unlike little Ms Perfect who NEVER admits a mistake-kind of like her husband's BFF George H W Bush Sr.'s son. W can't think of anything he'd change or ANY mistakes. In my mind it equates to the politics as usual-Clinton is a status quo candidate...pure vanilla all the way

[jackson_dem]

52. When did Obama admit to making a mistake? I've never heard him say "I was wrong"

[SoFlaJet]

59. I meant Kerry

but what does Obama have to apologize for, he wasn't the one who voted for George Bush's war-"I'm your girl" did

[jackson_dem]

60. St. Obama didn't save Kerry from himself during the swiftboating

If you are going to blame the Clintons for not defending Kerry you have to also blame the 2004 Democratic convention's keynote speaker too.

[SoFlaJet]

63. Bill Clinton was president

his voice carried a lot more water than a speaker at a convention J_D

[jackson_dem]

66. No argument there but Obama had clout too and both were silent

Neither deserves blame. The problem was Kerry made a bad decision to ignore the swiftboaters for two weeks.

[SoFlaJet]

67. what shows could Obama get on in 2004?

Bill Clinton still had the bully pulpit at his disposal and he chose to instead triangulate his wife's possible candidacy in the next election-really no comparison. We have no idea if Obama said anything or not-it was NEVER ASKED OR COVERED FROM MY MEMORY-sorry about the caps

[beachmom]

58. Because that is what surrogates do. That is how to win the debate.

If the candidate is always defending themselves, then they don't come across well.

The Clintonistas FROM DAY ONE did not help when the attacks hit, and then TRASHED KERRY FROM DAY ONE once the election was over. Paul Begala started the Kerry bash and it hasn't stopped.

What is amazing is that if Hillary is the nominee, and is attacked, John Kerry will defend her. In fact, John Kerry defended her in 2007 when the Pentagon attacked her.

You people have no decency.

Oh, and Kerry fought back against the Swifts, so don't lie about it:

http://www.kerryvision.net/2008/01/stand_up

But there is no way you can win when you're alone. Kerry needed back up, and only Dean, Clark and Cleland answered the call. Shame on the rest of the Democratic Party for turning their backs on Kerry.

[karynnj]

62. No one had to "babysit" Kerry, though HRC may hire someone to do so

with Bill if he keeps getting in trouble.

Kerry provided all that was needed for the media itself to kill the SBVT off as liars. It was there to be used.

[karynnj]

61. The best way to defend a candidate is for others to do it

For instance, it was Kerry who defended Bill Clinton after Clinton changed the story on how he avoided be drafted at least 4 times - even when the letter where Clinton spoke of "some loathing the military" came out - a letter that must have disgusted Kerry, who even in the 1970s was saying that you had to support the warriors even when you disagreed with the war.

[ShortnFiery]

23. That's beside the point ... another "trick" that the Atwater-Penn School of Obfuscation has proudly

instructed in "Political SMACK Slinging 101?" :evilgrin:

[rodeodance]

57. you blame Hill for Kerry not defending himself? Gawd!!

[IndieLeft]

46. Exactly. I think we all know Kerry lost to Bush

What was the point in adding that?

[fascisthunter]

2. You Mean (Stolen by Bush)

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

8. Bush beat Kerry but stole it from Gore, lets be honest.

[fascisthunter]

12. BUSH STOLE BOTH ELECTIONS... that is honest

[IndieLeft]

47. Are you forgetting Ohio?

And the dumpster full of tossed out ballots?

[MagickMuffin]

53. Since you ask for honesty, then let's be perfectly HONEST

The LAST two (S)elections were rigged way before a ballot was cast.

[LittleClarkie]

38. And here people say he didn't fight. But we can't even agree that it was stolen

If we couldn't unite behind him, how was he supposed to fight, I'd like to know.

[fascisthunter]

40. That Was a Real Shitty Time....

and we are now seeing the result of it all. What a damned mess.

[chascarrillo]

3. Kerry won the largest number of votes of any Democratic candidate. Ever.

Show a little bit of respect.

[jackson_dem]

6. Because the population was the largest ever in 2004

Kerry lost by 3 million votes.

[fascisthunter]

16. Talk about Splitting Hairs

and for a pro-Hillary talking point. Nice

[jackson_dem]

20. Kerry losing has nothing to do with Hillary

The world doesn't revolve around the Clenis and his wife.

[fascisthunter]

22. Oh... I See.... Talk Crap, Spin and Walk Away

Nice job! Is this Rove I'm talking to?

[jackson_dem]

27. Losing by 3 million is never good, no matter how you spin it

[chascarrillo]

30. More than just the population.

Kerry's GOTV effort was astounding.

[goldcanyonaz]

4. Can't take a nap now, so I won't be watching.

[Clintonista2]

14. No kidding, I just woke up from one. Maybe I'll record it and watch it when I'm ready to fall asleep

[ProSense]

28. Here

an eye-opener

[ProSense]

33. Also, look at what happened

after Kerry endorsed Obama.

You're right to worry about Hillary!

[LittleClarkie]

39. I didn't realize that politics had to be entertainment for people to pay attention

Kinda sad, that.

[LSK]

7. I wonder if you will be here for the 2012 elections

[tokenlib]

9. Ohio! Kerry didn't lose...n/t

[robbedvoter]

25. Nope. Just gave it away. Rolled over. Threw us to the dogs.

[MagickMuffin]

54. Tell me HOW Kerry could have challenged votes that had NO PAPER TRAIL?.?.?

I never have been able to figure this out. So, please enlighten me.....

[ecstatic]

10. He looks good nt

[Fredda Weinberg]

24. More articulate than Obama in 1 on 1, don't you think? n/t

[robbedvoter]

13. Make that Kerry (D-surrendered to Bush) - because, Psst - he won! (Don't tell him

he doesn't like to talk about it)

[islandmkl]

15. old sports adage:

"Frontrunners and bandwagoners hate losers."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. So who'd you vote for in 2004?

[Radical Activist]

18. Yep,. Candidates who voted for the war are unelectable.

You can't look strong on national security when you flip-flopped on the most important foreign policy decision of the last 30 years. Its a reminder to us all.

[jackson_dem]

29. Kerry was perceived as strong until he let himself be swiftboated

[Radical Activist]

32. "I was for it before I was against it" hurt him even more.

I don't want to see flip flops clapping on the floor of the Republican convention again. We need a candidate who can defy that image. Hillary can't and that's why she's a sure loser.

[jackson_dem]

36. That is probably the strongest argument Barack has on electability

I don't disagree with you on how Hillary would be attacked for flip flopping while Obama would be able to present a strong contrast. There are other reasons why you can argue for both on electability but the "flip flop" and war issues are clearly in favor of Obama.

[MagickMuffin]

56. Flip-Flopped a term coined by the GOP........ NICE

Kerry had the insight to admit he was WRONG. It takes a lot of courage to admit when one makes a mistake. NOT everyone can do that.

[ProSense]

21. Kerry got 12 million more votes than Bill, and unlike Hillary who lost Iowa and got crushed in SC,

Kerry won Iowa and the nomination.

[jackson_dem]

31. Bill won by about 8 million votes in 1996. Kerry lost by 3 million

Bill>Kerry

[ProSense]

35. Kerry got 12 million more votes! n/t

[jackson_dem]

37. The population rises about 20 million every 8 years and there was high turnout in 2004

Kerry ran in a two candidate race while Clinton split some of his vote with Perot. Bill did much better as a candidate than Kerry did. The overall vote totals are misleading. Kerry got more votes than FDR. Does that mean Kerry's 2004 campaign was more successful than FDR's 1936 one?

[ProSense]

43. Bill was running for re-election. Kerry's campaign was one of the most successful against

an incumbent president:

No single measure captures the extent of a presidential victory. The sheer number of voters that Bush inspired to turn out demonstrated impressive strength. But on several key indicators, Bush's victory ranks among the narrowest ever for a reelected president.

Measured as a share of the popular vote, Bush beat Kerry by just 2.9 percentage points: 51% to 48.1%. That's the smallest margin of victory for a reelected president since 1828.

The only previous incumbent who won a second term nearly so narrowly was Democrat Woodrow Wilson: In 1916, he beat Republican Charles E. Hughes by 3.1 percentage points. Apart from Truman in 1948 (whose winning margin was 4.5 percentage points), every other president elected to a second term since 1832 has at least doubled the margin that Bush had over Kerry.

In that 1916 election, Wilson won only 277 out of 531 electoral college votes. That makes Wilson the only reelected president in the past century who won with fewer electoral college votes than Bush's 286.

Measured another way, Bush won 53% of the 538 electoral college votes available this year. Of all the chief executives reelected since the 12th Amendment separated the vote for president and vice president -- a group that stretches back to Thomas Jefferson in 1804 -- only Wilson (at 52%) won a smaller share of the available electoral college votes. In the end, for all his gains, Bush carried just two states that he lost last time.

link

Bush and his Rove (Bill's hero) had to resort to election fraud and vote suppression to get those results, and most likely several million people are kicking themselves for the consequences.

[jackson_dem]

48. Bill beat an incumbent presideny by 6. Kerry lost to one by 3

Kerry was relatively successful against an incumbent but he also ran against one of the most vulnerable incumbents ever. There was a net job loss at the time and the country was divided over the war by the election.

Here are folks who beat incumbent presidents:

Jefferson
Jackson
William H. Harrison
Benjamin Harrison
Cleveland
FDR
Carter
Clinton

Kerry did well for a loser but wasn't able to beat an incumbent like eight presidents.

[ProSense]

49. With Perot in the race, who took votes from Bush, Bill only got 43% of the vote. Kerry got 49% n/t

[jackson_dem]

50. Bill won. Kerry lost.

That's all that matters.

The Perot thing is a myth anyway. His voters would have split evenly.

[mtnsnake]

71. Only John Kerry could lose to an imbecile like Bush. Worst campaigner in history

If Bill Clinton had run in 2004 he would've mopped up the floor with Junior and he would have fought back against any swiftboaters, unlike Kerry, the most boring candidate to ever get nominated.

[ProSense]

72. Hillary got crushed by Obama! n/t

[mtnsnake]

73. Neither Hillary nor Obama would ever get crushed by an imbecile such as Bush, like Kerry did. Yikes!

[karynnj]

64. Bush 1 was at 33% in Nov 1992 - Bush 2 was near 50% in 2004

ANY Democrat would have won in 1992. The Clintons in 2003 opted not to go for 2004 because it was considered tough.

[cali]

34. When's Pres. Billy Clinton (D-IMPEACHED)

coming up, bitlir?

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

65. umm.. last poster to disrespect Clinton like that got wise and finally

removed it his subject line. Posters did not like it. neither do I.

[cali]

69. tough shit, roper

I didn't like the subject line of this thread. But it was obviously fine with the likes of YOU. Can you spell hypocrisy? Oops, probably not. I forgot who I was addressing.

Goose, meet gander.

[mtnsnake]

68. Wow

[cali]

70. wow what?

You object to this, but you're fine with the shit in the OP's title? throw shit out, get shit back.

[Ian David]

41. He did NOT lose to Bush. n/t

[themaguffin]

44. If only had Kerry had Perot like Clinton did

otherwise the Clintons would have lost the White House just like they helped us lose the Congress

[jlake]

55. John Kerry didn't lose - let's not trash him. We are better than that.

[Bongo Prophet]

76. Classy response, jlake. Agree on both points. n/t

[AX10]

74. kick

[sniffa]

75. What an asshole

Not Kerry of course.