Where was Hillary when Bill was selling out gays?

[ProSense]

Bill Clinton reportedly told John Kerry to throw gays under the bus during 2004 election. What is he telling Hillary, and is she listening?

Defense of Marriage Act

[KennedyGuy]

1. I don't remember any Clinton ever trying to cure me..

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. No, but they kept you out of the army.

Did you just change your army avatar?

[KennedyGuy]

9. oh no they didn't..I'm still in and proud of it

the army avatar seem to terrify some people..so i changed it.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bongo Prophet]

42. I hope that soon you can be out and proud while serving, KennedyGuy!

Don't ask, don't tell was a crappy compromise, but it was one of those incremental things.
The fact that Bill, Barney Frank and others thought that was as far as they could take it, is an old argument best left aside for now. Sometimes that is all one can get. Civil unions rather than full marriage rights will likely be another.


I understand and share the frustration of many that justice takes so long, but we keep on keepin' on.
You seem to have found a safe zone while in the Army, but it is hell for others, and you all -WE all as human beings - deserve better. I hope that is soon - both Obama and Clinton have said they would address this, IIRC.


Thanks for your service, patriot! :patriot:

[TheDonkey]

43. I'm happy you felt good hiding in the shadows.

[Deja Q]

2. .

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

3. Where was Michelle when Obama hired Donnie McClurkin?

[TheWraith]

6. So, lying again, are we? NT

[ProSense]

11. Wondering

why the hypocrisy:

Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

One week after the gay blogosphere went ballistic over Barack Obama's ties to an "ex-gay" gospel minister, the Washington Blade has an interesting story about two prominent anti-gay black ministers who Hillary Clinton has embraced as supporters.

(Clinton supporters) said they’re generally unconcerned that anti-gay ministers Bishop Eddie Long and Rev. Harold Mayberry are supporting the campaign.

Long’s New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in suburban Atlanta once marched against gay marriage and hosts an “ex-gay” ministry. Mayberry has preached against homosexuality to his First African Methodist Episcopal Church in Oakland, Calif.

In interviews this week, Wilson and others said they were not concerned that Clinton had accepted a $1,000 donation from Long or that she recently thanked Mayberry for “fighting for civil rights and equality,” because she has not allowed either minister to speak for the campaign.

The Clinton backers tried to draw a distinction between Clinton accepting support from Long and Mayberry and Obama "handing a microphone" to "ex-gay" singer Donnie McClurkin. Actually it was the Obama campaign that picked McClurkin and the candidate chose not to disinvite him, but whatever.

Unlike McClurkin, Long is an anti-gay leader, make no mistake, gathering thousands to march in support of Georgia's anti-marriage amendment. Likewise, Mayberry said of gays, "I'm comfortable in what I believe in. I'm not rejecting people. As God loves, we love. I don't reject thieves, I reject thievery."

Another blogger, MyDD, has highlighted Clinton's ties to yet another anti-gay black minister, who has a $10,000 "consulting contract" with the Clinton campaign and spoke out in favor of the state's anti-marriage amendment.

link

[Bluebear]

14. Hillary has no McClurkin. She hired no anti-gay to MC her concerts,

[LoZoccolo]

18. Well no, she's just LITERALLY IN BED with someone who signed legislation.

I guess that doesn't matter as much though.

[KittyWampus]

19. But she associates with and panders to homophobes. So you're fine with that if it's done quietly.

says a lot about you.

[rodeodance]

26. good one---exposes the STUPIDITY of the IP

[ProSense]

33. .

why the hypocrisy:

Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

One week after the gay blogosphere went ballistic over Barack Obama's ties to an "ex-gay" gospel minister, the Washington Blade has an interesting story about two prominent anti-gay black ministers who Hillary Clinton has embraced as supporters.

(Clinton supporters) said they’re generally unconcerned that anti-gay ministers Bishop Eddie Long and Rev. Harold Mayberry are supporting the campaign.

Long’s New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in suburban Atlanta once marched against gay marriage and hosts an “ex-gay” ministry. Mayberry has preached against homosexuality to his First African Methodist Episcopal Church in Oakland, Calif.

In interviews this week, Wilson and others said they were not concerned that Clinton had accepted a $1,000 donation from Long or that she recently thanked Mayberry for “fighting for civil rights and equality,” because she has not allowed either minister to speak for the campaign.

The Clinton backers tried to draw a distinction between Clinton accepting support from Long and Mayberry and Obama "handing a microphone" to "ex-gay" singer Donnie McClurkin. Actually it was the Obama campaign that picked McClurkin and the candidate chose not to disinvite him, but whatever.

Unlike McClurkin, Long is an anti-gay leader, make no mistake, gathering thousands to march in support of Georgia's anti-marriage amendment. Likewise, Mayberry said of gays, "I'm comfortable in what I believe in. I'm not rejecting people. As God loves, we love. I don't reject thieves, I reject thievery."

Another blogger, MyDD, has highlighted Clinton's ties to yet another anti-gay black minister, who has a $10,000 "consulting contract" with the Clinton campaign and spoke out in favor of the state's anti-marriage amendment.

link

[liberalnurse]

5. Leave my Big Dog alone!

[ruggerson]

7. I love straight people telling gay people how to think re: gay issues

[terrya]

10. It saves me from thinking, actually.

Gosh, here I am...a gay man...caring about issues relating to the GLBT community...and why should I worry my pretty little head about these things when I can be told what to think by heteros who really don't care anyway!

DU can be SO helpful sometimes!

[Bluebear]

16. Don't think! We'll "lose the election for Democrats" again!

[Stephanie]

31. Blue, tell me what you think of this please >

http://citizenchris.typepad.com/citizenchris/2007/11/obama-and-gay-m.html

Fresh off the senseless flap over an "ex-gay" gospel singer on his campaign tour, Barack Obama was hit with questions about gay marriage three times this week, two of them on national television.

Alex Lamb, a gay student from Coe College, asked about the issue during a MTV/MySpace event that was broadcast live nationally, acknowledging in his question that Obama (like all the leading Democrats) favors civil unions and not marriage:

I want to make sure those civil unions are exactly equal in how the federal government treats people. Right now there are about 1,200 laws that are not applying to people with civil unions even if those civil unions are recognized by the states, and as president of the United States I want to change it.

He reiterated his support for civil unions at a smaller Iowa gathering later in the day, and in specifics that we never hear from front-runner Hillary Clinton. The Des Moines Register reports:

At the Cedar Rapids Public Library, Abbi Swanson wanted to know what the U.S. senator from Illinois would do to help her son, who is gay, gain the same marital protections as heterosexuals.

Obama repeated his stand that he is against gay marriage, but for civil unions that offer the same benefits as traditional marriage. He told about 150 people at the library that he couldn't endorse traditional marriage for gay and lesbian families.

"You want the word marriage and I believe that the issue of marriage has become so entangled -- the word marriage has become so entangled with religion -- that it makes more sense for me as president, with that authority, to talk about the civil rights that are conferred" with civil unions, Obama said. Individual denominations should make the decisions about what to recognize as a marriage, he said.

Then finally, after dancing his way on to Ellen DeGeneres' daytime chat show, Obama put an exclamation point on his civil unions support:

""You know what I would do is immediately set up a civil union that is equal in federal rights so that all the states, all the rights that are conferred by the states are the same for gays and lesbians, same sex couples as for any other couple," he said. "In terms of marriage, what I would do is I would say each religious denomination can make their own decision."

"

The commitment to push civil unions at the federal level "immediately" is fairly unprecedented, as Jennifer Vanasco pointed out. That puts him far out in front of Hillary or John Edwards, who have stayed very very vague on what exactly "civil unions" means to them. Obama is talking about the federal government treating state-issued civil unions the same as it does state-issued married licenses. That would represent huge progress.

But it still leaves out gay married couples (in Massachusetts, Rhode Island and elsewhere), as well as long-term gay couples in states that don't have marriage or civil unions (or domestic partnerships like in California, Washington, Hawaii, etc.). Obama has said he favors repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (not half-repeal like Hillary) so that would take care of married couples, and his questionnaire to the Human Rights Campaign favored federal recognition for long-term couples as well.

Finally, there is the sticky issue of religion and marriage. Obama has repeated the theme of leaving marriage to religion, which generally angers gays because we seek civil marriage, not to force religious denominations to wed us. Obama clearly knows that, so why does he keep saying it?

I think the answer is in the MTV/My Space event, where he talked about how marriage has become "entangled" with religion. He's actually got that backward, since marriage was a religious institution that became "entangled" with civil rights and responsibilities. Either way, he's clearly right about why marriage is such a time-bomb of a word for most people.

I suggested years ago, when Vermont first created civil unions for gay couples, that the government simply extend "civil unions" to everyone and leave the word "marriage" entirely to the private sphere. That will never happen anytime soon, but it's the direction Obama seems to be headed. And since he is reiterating that civil unions won't impact religious marriage, which is true, his overall point is well taken.

He would do well, however, to reiterate that gays aren't even seeking to infringe on religious denominations; otherwise this religion issue is a straw man is of his own making and will continue to rankle.

[Bluebear]

32. McClurkin was not a "senseless flap"

I voted for Edwards in NH, I will certainly vote for Obama if he is the nominee, but I fear he is tone-deaf on GLBT issues.

[Stephanie]

34. Did you read the rest of it?

The blogger says Obama is better on marriage equality than any of the others. Do you agree?

[Bluebear]

35. I don't know, Steph

Obama's talk became cheap to many of us after the South Carolina stunt.

[Stephanie]

36. Well think about it

When I heard his answer on MTV I thought it was pretty good, comparatively.

[Bluebear]

37. His "women should be prayerful" about abortion...

...the whole "I want to be an instrument of God's will" thing... makes me squirm. But as I said, of course I will vote for him in the GE! :)

[rinsd]

8. Yes Bob Shrum what an impeccable source

:eyes:

[littlebit]

13. I don't know

I am a huge Hillary supporter. But this is something that has bothered me for a long time. I want to believe that she is the best candidate for us. I am concerned though that she won't be there for us.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

20. Sign me on.

[ProSense]

21. "You are such an asshole." Classy! n/t

[Bluebear]

23. It's the least we could say, the words we had in mind were impolite.

[ProSense]

24. The word in mind is hypocrisy! n/t

[ProSense]

22. "You are such an asshole." Classy! n/t

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

25. To the people who got their posts deleted.

HA HA HA HA!

[rodeodance]

27. Another divisive post of the IP'er.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

29. The post isn't divisive, it's just that you can't face facts! n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. --. --- -.. / - .... .- - / .-- .- ... / ..-. ..- -.-. -.- .. -. --. / ... - ..- .--. .. -.. .-.-.-

[greguganus]

38. . -.. / - - - /.-.. / -.. . / -.- .-. ....- -.. .-.

... -- .. .-.. . -.--

[donheld]

40. You made some very good points there

:D

[CorpGovActivist]

39. Cogently-stated question (as usual) kick n/t

[mondo joe]

41. And yet, Clinton is not as offensive to me as 0bama, who panders with his cure-gays spokesperson.

I can see how you wouldn't get that, as it's not a real issue for you.