I don't understand how Hillary won the Northeast

[boricua79]

If were's supposedly smarter and progressive in the Northeast...why is the Northeast supporting the DLC-centrist, establishment-elitist candidate that everyone and their mother knows has closer connections to lobbyists, corporate interests, and the status quo?

That doesn't sound progressive at all...yet the results show a Hillary win?

Could it be the Northeast talks a lot of bullshit about progressivism, but votes status quo, while the poorer (and blacker) masses of the South are responding to the Obama campaign's appeals?

I'm at a loss....doesn't make sense to me.

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. We like effective governance and performance matters to us n/t

[WhiteTara]

5. well said! n/t

[Proud2BAmurkin]

9. yup

[Hoof Hearted]

15. Hell yeah!

[boricua79]

16. effective government and performance

whose? Hillary's never run anything. She claims she was "vetted". She was just "there".

On anything progressive, it was obvious that Obama had the more populist policies (in comparison to Clinton...Edwards was the overall more progressive of the three).

So..."effective governance" is enough to forget the DLC-roots of the Clinton side? Have we forgotten what happened the last time we supported a DLC-candidate...Lieberman?

[Fredda Weinberg]

38. HRC has been re-elected senator. That's more than being there n/t

[boricua79]

40. oh I thought you meant as a President

because HIllary runs the whole "i've been vetted" campaign to mean her "fights" with the Right-wing throughout the 90s, not her Senate career.

[oviedodem]

2. Don't be surprised. Hillary is very STRONG up there. The dems

especially in NY basically run the place. And Jersey, Conn kind of follow the lead.

[Onlooker]

3. Obama's no more liberal than Clinton ...

... and I think feminism resonates more in the Northeast. (I voted for Obama, FYI, but I do like Clinton, too.)

[boricua79]

20. so, it's all about she having a vagina

that's the "feminism"? Aside from her career, I fail to see the radical feminist ideals of Hillary. She remains (to me) a child of privilege. I see more feminism in Michelle Obama than I do in Clinton.

And I voted Obama too :)

[cali]

4. It's her territory

Of course she's going to win.

[rocktivity]

6. From what I can see, things are going exactly as expected

With Hillary doing better in the Northeast and Obama doing better in the South.

:shrug:
rocknation

[debbierlus]

7. The Clinton economy: Prosperous years & peaceful

If war was the center issue, it would have gone Obama.

Economy trumped war, Clinton.

I think there is a sense that the Clintons know how to juggle this insanity while Obama may be juggled BY it. Most people I knew supported Edwards until he dropped out, & then went to Obama & Hillary in equal numbers. However, most of my friends are progressive and the 'moderates' tended towards Hillary to begin with...

[boricua79]

22. but she didn't do antying

that's what gets me. We're supposed to be smarter up here in the Northeast...yet we fall for the sleight of hand parlor trick of trading Bill Clinton's success for Clinton.

In comparison to Bush, EVERYTHING about the Clinton's looks great...but they weren't perfect either. People forget her DLC roots. That's what gets me. Are progressive only in words?

I'm progressive in action. i would have wanted Kucinich, then Edwards, and ultimately Obama...but I was damned if I was going to give another Clinton-McCaullife-Brazile-Lieberman DLCist my vote.

[Mike Daniels]

62. perhaps the NE is more racist than the south

Just because you're a Dem doesn't mean you can't be racist.

I have relatives in PA who've voted Dem in every election who are extremely racist whereas my Republican father-in-law made sure the one African-American student in his 1950's graduating high school class in Topeka, Kansas would be welcome in the city they had their big road trip to.

[DainBramaged]

8. It's easy, more people voted for her than Obama

I find it funny as hell that you'd expect the Northeast to be _______________________ (fill in the blank)

[boricua79]

26. if it's between Obama and Hillary

I expected the Northeast to vote more rationally and intelligently on progressive politics...and Obama shines MORE than Clinton on those fronts. He's also a more charismatic, hopeful leader.

Yet SHE won. Is it because most people don't know her DLC-roots and linkages? How can she possibly be seen as an agent of change, when she's part of that culture of the ruling class that trades power every 8 years. She's no Democrat of the people.

[DainBramaged]

33. Sour fucking grapes, give me a break for Christ's sake

You Obamabots are relentless. Why not just join Gramps' campaign and keep disparaging Clinton.:spank:

[boricua79]

47. hey, the show's not over until it's over

I never said Obama LOST Super Tuesday. It's still up for grabs. I'm just wondering why the Northeast went so centrist-establishment. I expected the Northeast and West to be the most progressive sections of the country.

But then again, that doesn't mean there were no Obama voters in these places.

[Liberalynn]

51. self delete

[goldcanyonaz]

10. People voted more for her than Obama, really not that hard to figure out.

[boricua79]

28. you didn't see my questions

I'm trying to find out WHY the disconnect between the idea that the Northeast is the shining crown of intellectual political thinking in the U.S. (and usually more progressive), and the results that they elected to vote for a DLC-centrist, establishment, lobbyist-linked, corporate-interest-connected candidate, rather than the candidate that seems poised to usher in some changes on those issues.

My question: do we just TALK the TALK in the Northeast about being progressives?

[southern_dem]

11. It's her stronghold

[grantcart]

12. CT and Del?

[blm]

13. Clinton was always expected to win there and by a HUGE margin. Obama's closing

is remarkable and the sign of a campaign GAINING its stride and power while the other is showing visible weakening.

[sandnsea]

14. Giuliani, Bloomberg & Romney win there too

I love my NE peeps, but I don't get it either.

[BootinUp]

17. Hillary is not your DLC candidate

She is a liberal.

[Tarheel_Dem]

24. there is nothing liberal about hillary.........

[BootinUp]

29. You've eaten from the wrong tree of knowledge. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. I won't deign to tell you what you can eat...n/t

[boricua79]

30. um no

Hillary is most DEFINITELY a product of the DLC-group of democrats, and her entire campaign is crawling with old DLCists. It's obvious to anyone with political knowledge that her campaign is the "establishment" campaign on the Dem side.

So why did progressives in the Northeast vote for her?

[BootinUp]

34. Do you know what establishment means?

It means someone who has been in DC circles. It has nothing to do with liberal centrist conservative positions.

[boricua79]

43. well..let me clarify

if you mean Washington Establishment, that's Clinton all the way

and if you mean Democratic party establishment, that's STILL Clinton all the way.

She's a child of the upper class. She's a Kennedy...a Bush...a dynasty...a power broker...a corporate linked mouthpiece.

I never said Obama was the messiah...but if I'm comparing, there's no way anyone could peg him as the favorite of the moneyed interests.

[BootinUp]

53. Who is voting for Clinton, open your eyes.

It is clear Obama is the fav of Financially better off Dems, Religious Conservative Dems, Indpendents. Hillary is the champion of lunch box Dems and those making less than 100K a year. Thats because she is the liberal. Her campaign is the more liberal of the two. Krugman calls Obama less progressive on economic policy, healthcare. What does Hillary have to do to shed Bills beliefs? She is not Bill and this is not 1992.

[boricua79]

60. shed Bill's political apparatus

she becomes Prez, and the entire cadre of DLC staffers become the government.

Not good enough for me.

and I'm sorry...but the black people and poor Southerners voting for Obama are NOT the financially better off...and neither am I.

[moosen]

18. because we see through all this "Hope" and "Yes we can" gibbrish

[boricua79]

32. and see what?

the DLC-centrist, elitist, establishment-approved, corporate-interest-linked, lobbying-linked, politically-calculating opportunist on the other side?

That was the alternative?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. Because Hillary Is A Great Candidate, Will Make A Great President, And We're Open Minded Enough Up

here to know it. That's why.

[boricua79]

36. aside from the fact

that's she the establishment candidate with DLC-roots and ties....yeah, I guess if you pushed that all aside, she'd make a good president. Too bad when the time comes (and have come), she's never rocked the boat.

Hey, but you know, can't wait for her next "if I knew then what I knew now" moment. We'll see what the Northeast says then.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah, DLC Blah Blah, Establishment Blah Blah Blah, Blah Bloo Bloo Blah.

:boring:

[boricua79]

45. you can laugh at me...

I"m sure right now, there's a few DLCists sitting around THEIR rich table hitting champagne glasses together.

And YOU'RE not invited to THAT party.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. ...

:boring: :boring: :boring:


(pssssstttt....that ain't laughter...)

[boricua79]

54. that's right, remain asleep

that's how THEY like you. Just wake up to vote their way...then go back to sleep for the next 8 years.

and when they come out with their brand-approved next "offering", and they trademark, package it, and market it...you can wake up again and hit the button for the DLC again...and go back to sleep...sleep sleep sleep sleep....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

58. ....

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[boricua79]

61. asleep and crazy...as I imagined.... NT

[mitchum]

49. I don't know about that...they may need someone to bus the tables after...

their champagne party

[boricua79]

55. in that case, I'm sure he's up for the job

I'm certainly not going to play dutiful butler for The Clintons TM.

[never_get_over_it]

21. I'm a LIBERAL New Yorker

don't live there any more - but I'll tell you NEITHER Clinton or Obama are liberal or close to it - if I were voting in a primary I wouldn't have voted for either of them not a bit of difference between them as far as I'm concerned....but I'm guessing Northeast going with "experience" and they probably want Bill back...

[McCamy Taylor]

23. Who is more status quo than Kennedy, Kerry, Shriver, LA Times?

Face it, Obama is just as status quo as Hillary.

[goldcanyonaz]

25. Exactly, never got the "She's" status quo but I'm not arguement.

[boricua79]

37. different types of status quo

which status quo would you like on your side

The Kennedys, Kerry, LA times

or Terry McCaullife, Donna Brazille, Lieberman, and THAT side of the Democrat party.

By establishment, I don't mean "longstanding and famous"....I mean the ones who are republican lite...who have connections to the same corporate interests that hedge their bets on both parties.

[usrbs]

27. Because Hillary is as progressive as Obama if not more, but more experienced

Your blind devotion hides this fact from you.

[boricua79]

39. unless, of course, you count her DLC-roots

and her continual flip-flopping, "if I knew then what I know now" finger to the air politics...yeah, I g uess she's progressive.

[ginchinchili]

31. You answered your own question, they're smarter & more progressive.

They've decided that they need more than feelgood soundbites. Obama hasn't proved himself at anything except how to promote himself. Making him president would be like throwing the dice with our country as the wager. I simply can't gamble on the future of this country. And considering his presidential asperation and a lack of history showing a willingness to take unpopular stands, no one can convince me that Obama would have voted against the Iraq war. I don't forget that the Democrats who were questioning going into Iraq were being called traitors, unAmerican, and unpatriotic, and at the time the charges had an impact. Obama is ambitious and a careful strategist. He would have played it safe and bought the better-to-be-safe-than-sorry argument. He even admitted himself that he doesn't know how he would have voted during a rare moment of veracity. He did the same thing on the Kyle/Lieberman vote. He didn't show up for the vote then hammered Hillary for her vote. I just don't see him as a stand up guy. It's all about self-promotion.

[boricua79]

42. hmmm, good points.

what about her DLC-links and her obvious connections to the Republican-lite part of the Party. Bother you much?

[usrbs]

52. And what about Obama's ties to Lieberman?

Look closer at both of their records. There simply isn't the distance you perceive.

[boricua79]

57. what ties?

Lieberman didn't MAKE Obama or run its campaign

But the Clintons are THE central heartpiece of the 1990s DLC elitist wing of the party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

Bill is THEIR POSTER BOY.

[Iceburg]

35. Obama is doing well in the conservative states Utah, AL, GA...

in my circles Obama is viewed as conservative, albiet a flashy one ...appealing more to the American Idol crowd. He has drawn many new voters into the process but he has not made much of an impact in the over 30 crowd (>80% of the voters). Given his policies, it does make a lot of sense to me.

[dicknbush]

44. Except for Connecticut....These goof balls voted for the guy who supported LIE berman

And is listenting to LIEberman as an advisor in the Sentae If Connecticut goes for Obama they really are goof balls!

[Radio_Lady]

50. "Politics makes strange bed-fellows... " We'll think up other termininology.

[krkaufman]

56. Where are you getting data that "poorer" Democratic voters are more likely ...

... to vote for Obama?


> Could it be ... the poorer (and blacker) masses of the South are responding to the Obama campaign's appeals?

Just as Hillary is winning the female vote not entirely on her credentials, blacks are not strictly voting for Barack based on his campaign's appeal or his credentials. There are some foundational affinity votes that each is receiving, upon which they must build. Where one demographic largely outweighs another, one candidate may have a marginal advantage.

And then there's name recognition, where Hillary had a significant edge at the start of the year.

[Liberalynn]

59. My vote went where I thought best !

I won't be told who I should cast it for. That's my choice. That's what Democracy is all about.

Voters study the issues and history of the candidates and vote their own mind. And just because someone's choice maybe different than mine, it doesn't make it any less reasoned or intelligent.

I won't be dictated to! I voted for Hillary because she has done a damn fine job for my state. She fought like hell to keep our VA open and did far more than any of her other colleaques on the issue.

[Zorra]

63. Obama's Reagan talk, and talk of bipartisanship, probably turned a

lot of long time Dems off.

He sure lost me there.

[enfield collector]

64. you got it right, the NE likes to think it's superior to the rest of the country

but when it comes down to it they're exactly the same as the rest of us rednecks.