I gotta say....Obama is our best general election candidate

[LoveForPeace]

He won in some of the most red states imaginable with a whopping 70% in some cases. He has great pull. He needs to be the nominee if the party wants to win.

[neutron]

like all Obama people, you know nothing about your candidate

They can never tell me why he is the "best"

You love his speeches? He doesn't write them.
You love his vote against war? He didn't vote.
(He wasn't even in the senate at the time)
You love his "liberalism" He's the far right candidate.
You love him because of Ted Kennedy? Kennedy
endorsed him after becoming enraged at Clinton
for talking about LBJ and civil rights, and not
mentioning JFK.

His proposals are all discredited by experts
and he's done bad stuff like bragging in Iowa
that he passed legislation that didn't pass - and
when it did, he watered it down to support
business interests against his district.

You know nothing except he looks sweet.

[AndyA]

4. Yes, I've been seeking an answer to those elusive facts as well.

Why is Barack the best?

How is he going to do the things he says he's going to do?

It's not on his site.

It's not in his speeches.

Apparently he wants us to blindly believe in him, and hope that he'll do the things he says he's going to do.

After Bush, my trust level of politicians is at an all time low, so I'll need more than empty promises and rhetoric.

[cali]

10. what noxious crap

none of it true. I know his proposals. They have certainly not all been discredited by experts. He was against the war at the time of the IWR, and there's proof of it. Even Hillypoo says he's too liberal. She's little Miss DLC. I like his progressive record in the Illinois State Senate and the U.S. Senate. The Clintons shamelessly race baited.

You know jackshit and you sure don't know anything about the truth.

[sniffa]

15. Eh, they're just terrified is all

They should have been a few days ago, but they're just now really letting it all out. Good for them.

[adabfree]

17. lol

[Dogmudgeon]

20. That's quite a lot of scorn and disdain

"Hillypoo"? "Little Miss DLC"?

If you want people to think you're of a morally superior breed, you have to act like it from time to time.

--p!

[billbuckhead]

23. Obama's greatest vote, the one he didn't have to make

[neutron]

27. did you read what trusted economiss SAY about his plans?

His plans are not even credible.

He'd make a fine local politician, but he has exhibited NOTHING to indicate
that he is capable of leading a country.

That is why ROVE and all right wingers are trying to help him get elected.

That is why MSM is bashing Clinton.
Pharmacueducal industry money is behind finishing her off.

[neutron]

28. ROVE supports Obama

figure it out.

[OnionPatch]

48. Is that what he said?

Because I sure don't believe anything Rove says. Especially not in public. I would tend to believe the opposite.

[sniffa]

14. Like the typical Hillbot, you know not what you speak

Not surprising. Enjoy your going down in flames. :hi:

[midnight armadillo]

21. I like his hair

Unless you're going to claim that's fake too.

[polpilot]

50. 'Hair vote' will be huge!!!

Hare vote?

[ClintonTyree]

26. This WNBC/Marist Poll just about sums it up......

A WNBC/Marist Poll last week found most New Yorkers felt Clinton was best able to handle the economy, the Iraq war and health care, but Obama embodied the best chance for undefined "change."

People trust Clinton more with every critical issue. But in the undefined "change" and "hope" categories, Obama wins, hands down. :eyes:

As John Lennon once said, "no short haired, yellow-bellied, son of Tricky-Dicky's 'gonna mother-hubbard soft-soap me with just a pocket full of hope".... now, I'm not suggesting Obama is yellow-bellied or a son of "Tricky-Dicky", but the words just roll of the tongue, don't they? It's the "pocket full of hope" line that's the key here.

Hope is a useless and intangible entity. I want someone who will deliver on the issues, not some pie-in-the-sky dreamer, some charismatic feel-good drum major leading an army of moon-eyed neophytes to certain defeat in November. And that is exactly what will happen if Obama is the Democratic candidate. The Reich-wing attack machine would chop him up and spit him out like mulch from a wood chipper

And the moon-eyed neophytes? They're in for the shock of their lives when the right sets into Obama. Many of Obama's supporters have no idea what the Reich-wing attack machine is capable of. To them it's all been a fuzzy, warm, feel good campaign about "change" and "hope". Reality has yet to touch them. But it will, and all the "hope" in the world isn't going to abate the carnage from the right-wing attack machine.

Clinton is battle tested and hardened. There isn't anything the right-wing can throw at her that she can't fend off and turn it against them. She has a host of faults, yes. But as for who can win in November and end the conservative carnage that's plagued us for the past 8 yeras? Clinton is the only choice.

[neutron]

29. he's weak and to the right

which is why the media and right wing is pushing him.

[Sulawesi]

31. Such arrogance, dont' tell me why I like Obama.

"he's done some bad stuff like bragging in Iowa" Good lord...

[EffieBlack]

32. Actually - unlike most of the other candidates, he DOES write most of his own speeches . . .

And most of your other "observations" can be said about any candidate, depending upon one's point of view.

But beside that point, your post is a rather petty response to the OP, who did not disparage any other candidate but simply stated his/her opinion.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

33. we know him better than you!

[RoadRage]

37. And like a typical Hillary Supporter.. you will throw Obama under ANY bus

and support Hillary all the way until she loses the General Election in November.. and then just scream that this country is sexist.

PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE YOUR CANDIDATE. PEOPLE WILL NOT VOTE FOR HER IN NOVEMBER. PEOPLE WILL VOTE AGAINST HER IN HUGE NUMBERS.

She can have all of the great proposals in the world, but when she's running against John McCain, and every republican comes out of the woodwork to vote AGAINST her, and the Independents that like Obama jump ship to McCain because he's the lesser of two evils, we will have another 4 years (or possibly 8) of a Republican president. And Hillary and her wonderful ideas & plans will be in New York, doing nothing.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

38. "far right candidate?"

who are you, Che Guevara? Obama is a very liberal candidate by almost anyone's calculations. How is he "far right"?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/31/625886.aspx

There you can see he was rated most liberal, and also the surrounding controversy with that ranking. Still, the fact he was rated #1, even if in a flawed study, must mean he at least, leans a LITTLE to the left. Will you grant me that?

[Cant trust em]

40. ALL Obama people, give me a break

No one writes their own speeches, but it's the delivery that counts.
He didn't vote against the war. But I also know this. He didn't vote FOR it.

[adabfree]

1. I agree wholeheartedly

He can independents and moderate republicans. He can compete better with McCain, Huckabee and/or Romney

[William769]

2. So Republican will vote for Obama over a republican.

Take off the rose colored glasses.

[adabfree]

7. Uh yeah..it's happening..

Haven't you read it right here on the board...people saying their spouses and relatives that are republicans were voting for Obama.

I watched a voter session on Fox and quite a few moderate republicans said they would vote for Obama...over McCain, Romney and Huckabee..

So yes, they will...

[William769]

9. You hold onto that.

:rofl:

[adabfree]

11. All you got huh

Whenever I hit you with facts..you comeback empty handed or with beer..lol

amateur..

[William769]

13. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4430957

It's all I need. :rofl:

ON EDIT: Speaking of facts, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4430900&mesg_id=4430900

ON Second Edit: Heresy are not facts. Just some food for thought.

[adabfree]

16. You must fall into that percentile..often spoken of...

lol

[William769]

18. Just the facts.

When you have some we will be more than happy to look at them. :rofl:

[mrmx9]

24. Many Republicans don't think McCain is a Republican - Limbaugh/Coulter et al!

Ann Coulter is backing Hillary - scary!

[William769]

25. And if you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you!

:rofl:

[Maddy McCall]

3. A Democrat always wins in each red state IN THE PRIMARY. So does a Republican.

Geez, do you need someone to explain the primary process to you?

[Maribelle]

5. That's a logical fallacy

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc

It's totally fallacious to claim that some of those red states will not remain solid red just because Obama got more votes than Hillary in them.

[Benhurst]

6. Yeah, 70% of the DEMOCRATIC vote. Unfortunately for us,

the Republicans also vote in the general election.

Get real.

[EffieBlack]

35. Why do you think someone who gets 70% of the Democratic vote in a red state is not as viable in that

red state as someone who got only 30% of the Democratic vote in that state?

It just seems odd to me that supporters of a candidate who got 30% of a vote would turn around and claim that the candidate who got 70% of the vote is LESS viable in that state than their candidate is.

If a candidate can't even get a majority of Democrats in a state to vote for them, what indication do you have that they could get a majority of ALL of the voters in the state in the fall?

[Benhurst]

41. Mondale won the Democratic primaries in those areas in 1984.

Neither of our front-runners has a chance of winning them in the general election.

[EffieBlack]

44. Because Mondale won primaries there but didn't win the general 24 years ago

against a popular president running for reelection, that is somehow proof that Barack Obama could not beat McCain in 2008?

Uh-huh.

[Benhurst]

46. Good, progressive Democrats win primaries down here all the time--

they unfortunately go on to lose general elections.

Neither of our front-runners is going to do well in the general election in the South and other hard-core red states. Take a good hard look at the Senators and Congressmen elected from those states and you'll have a better understanding what confronts us in the general election. Making sweeping projections from Democratic primary results is just silly.

[EffieBlack]

49. I haven't made any sweeping projections

I am simply pointing out that - and you seem to agree - that it's foolish to assume that someone who got 70% of the primary vote is somehow less electable than someone who got 30% of the vote.

[Radical Activist]

8. The red state primary voters know who will do better in their own states.

They know Obama has a better chance of winning in their home towns. People in middle America have a certain distaste for people who are fake and insincere and Hillary comes off that way far too often.

[Benhurst]

42. Yeah. Sure. It may look like that from Illinois; but not down here.

[Perry Logan]

12. For a group of people who like to call our own leaders cowards, we sure seem scared of Republicans.

[El Pinko]

19. He polls only slightly better than Hillary against McCain.

I do think he's slightly the stronger GE candidate, but the fact that he won in "red" states is irrelevant since it was only the democrats voting, and blacks are disproportionately represented among democrats in the south.


Either Hillary or Obama will have their work cut out for them to win ANY southern red states. Hillary has high negatives, and Obama has to contend with racism and the whole "Hussein" thing.

It's really a tossup as to which candidate's weaknesses are more crippling. The fact that Obama is slightly more inspiring puts him slightly ahead of Hill in my view, but only slightly.

Hill has a lock on some very powerful voting blocs that reliably turn out in big urban areas.


I had to toss a coin to pick which one to vote for. I hope the best candidate gets the nomination, whichever it is, and for the sake of unity, I hope they both are on the same ticket together in the GE.

[Sparkly]

22. I'm going back and forth on electability

That's what it comes down to for me. And both Obama and Clinton have negatives -- I just don't know whose would be worse in the GE.

Winning a PRIMARY in a red state doesn't necessarily mean much.

[Enrique]

30. his margin of victory doesn't mean much imo

for the reasons other people have given. He would bring more excitement to the race I think, which could increase democratic turnout, but more important I think is the fact that Hillary has already been vetted by the RW smear machine. The inevitable smears against her wouldn't have as much impact as the new ones that will be done against Obama.

[TexasObserver]

34. Yes, Obama is our best candidate for the general election.

And it's not close. He's by far the better candidate to represent us in the general election.

For one thing, he's a real Democrat.

[557188]

36. Ohio is the key

And Obama is pretty unpopular in Ohio. Forget all the other states, its all about Ohio like always.

[Elspeth]

39. He won the DEMOCRATIC vote in red states, NOT the general vote

How the Republicans and independents will go in the general is completely uncertain.

This is not to say that Obama doesn't have appeal to independents, he does. That might be the main reason to go with him. But winning the Democratic vote in states where Democrats might comprise 8% of the electorate (like Utah) doesn't mean Obama will win Utah in the general election. In fact, those states where Obama won last night will probably-just based on sheer numbers--go red in the general. Utah is 92% non-Democrats. No chance that any Dem will change that significantly enough to take the whole state.

[Benhurst]

43. Of course; but don't puncture Hope with reality. It isn't appreciated.

[musiclawyer]

45. This is not good.

Let me tell you a story. I work for elections officials. Here in CA, there were crazy numbers of indies who wanted dem ballots to vote dem. Many precincts ran out and had to improvise. Virtually all the indies came to vote for Obama. So people actually having to pause when thinking who will give us greater traction in November makes me irate.

HRC is poison downticket; independents will not vote for her, or will vote for McCain; she will galvanize the GOP vote, many of whom would stay home if it's Obama; she will flat out reduce the number of dems voting; she is the one thing that gives the GOP a chance in 08!

I don't care if HRC is mother theresa incarnate or you think of her that way 08 is not time to take chances. Lives literally are at stake. Why any democrat would throw the GOP a lifeline under these circumstnces is beyond me? The GOP is toxic to America and needs to be buried. Obama (Edwards would have even more) buries the GOP for the next generation. HRC even if she wins, does not.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. No He Isn't. n/t