There's some hypocrisy in Barak Obama's embrace of John Kerry

[bigtree]

Sen. Kerry made the same Iraq vote as Sen. Clinton, yet, Sen. Obama supported John Kerry for the presidency. He really opened up on Sen. Clinton for her Iraq resolution vote in his 'victory' speech last night.

Here's Barak Obama in 2004, from his speech at the Democratic convention:

"President Kerry will not hesitate one moment to use our military might to keep America safe and secure. John Kerry believes in America."

That doesn't sound a bit like this, from his speech last night:

" . . . another soldiers waves goodbye as he leaves on another tour of duty in a war that should have never been authorized . . . if I am your nominee, my opponent will not be able to say that I voted for the war in Iraq, because I didn't; or that I gave George Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran, because I haven't . . ."

Sen. Obama was okay with campaigning for a president who had voted for the Iraq resolution, before he was against it.

[blm]

1. Did you forget Kerry opposed Bush's DECISION to go to war before, during and after

the invasion? He stayed TRUE to his position taken when he made that IWR vote to stand against Bush if he chose to rush to war without doing what was needed to avoid it through weapon inspections. Consistent.

Hillary Consistently SUPPORTED Bush's DECISION to invade and stuck with that support until Lieberman lost his primary race.

Surely you MUST have noticed?

[bigtree]

6. It's the 'authorization' he's criticized. Don't get ahead of what your candidate has said.

Both made the same vote that Obama says 'authorized' the invasion and occupation.

[blm]

17. Kerry's position on the authorization was still sincere. And he did FOLLOW THROUGH

on his promise to stand and oppose any move Bush made to go to war that was taken before the circumstances warranted.

Hillary never showed anything but solid support for Bush's actions.

And Hillary COULD have adjusted her position to back up Kerry even when he was the nominee, but she and her husband wouldn't budge on their support for Bush and his war strategy.

[bigtree]

19. Yet, blm, that's not the argument Obama's making

he's saying that the vote 'authorized' the invasion and occupation, and that vote was the action the electorate should use to measure the difference on this issue between Hillary and himself.

The question remains. If he's now claiming the vote itself was so pernicious, he's at odds with the 2004 Obama who so openly and enthusiastically supported Kerry's campaign for the presidency.

[blm]

24. Kerry's fine with the responsibility of that burden, and showing sturdy character.

Hillary chose to try and SNOW Democratic voters: Bill "I was against that war from the beginning" Clinton certainly didn't help. And neither does Hillary's revisionism.

If they had shown the character to stand by Kerry on his position opposing Bush's decision when he was the nominee, Hillary wouldn't be floundering with her explanations right now. They thought they were being clever by supporting Bush's position over Kerry's in 2004. Well, now it's been coming back at them.

[sandnsea]

41. Kerry admits Obama was the one who was 100% right

This is a stupid complaint against Obama. I am so sick of people excusing Hillary's landfill of trash by saying Obama dropped a gum wrapper.

[SteppingRazor]

2. I don't think those two statements are at loggerheads.

Using "our military might to keep America safe and secure" is all fine and good, but that's not what we did by going into Iraq. The Iraq War has made us less safe and secure.

[msongs]

3. Kennedy/Kerry magic helps Obama sweep Massachusetts.. nt

[blm]

4. Hillary up by 37% in Mass. Kerry-Kennedy cut lead in half there and boost Obama in states

all over America.

[leftynyc]

11. Yes - and the Patriots really won the

superbowl because they only lost by 3.

[blm]

14. No. But Patriots DID pull ahead in states that Bushloving Clintons needed to win yesterday

but she didn't did she?

Obama gained national pull with Kennedy and Kerry's help.

Mass closed by more than half thanks to their efforts.

How ARE the state wins and delegates shaking out for the Super Tuesday that TeamClinton planned for the last 8 years?

[leftynyc]

21. Every web site has her

winning the most delegates. Obama is going to have egg on his face for saying otherwise.

[blm]

25. Not exactly the sweep envisioned and NEEDED by TeamClinton. Full speed ahead

into waters looking smooth for Obama and quite choppy here on out for the Clintons.

[leftynyc]

26. Talk about downplaying

This very site was pushing a Zogby poll yesterday that had Obama up 13 points, other polls had NJ and MA even. If you think the Obama supporters are any different than Clinton supporters in the false frame game - you're delusional.

[karynnj]

32. No one ever thought NJ was even

Keeping it close was considered to be the best outcome.

[leftynyc]

40. That didn't stop them from

pushing a poll that had it even - along with all the other polls (Zogby, Ras, etc). How can anyone trust a poll during this primary season? I realize it's hard waiting for real results and dissecting polls takes up time and energy but come on - the polls have been ridiculously wrong and shouldn't be pushed as some kind of gospel. That Zogby poll was posted at least a dozen times.

[karynnj]

45. I have never put faith in a poll that is clearly out of line with the rest

I actually don't think I ever posted a poll for 2008. I have more often posted cautionary comments. It was human nature for some to post it - and there have been comparable posts from the Clinton side. The NJ polls were more consistent - with HRC usually having a commanding lead. I never bought the one even one.

[blm]

37. A few did - the most experienced of us didn't fall for it.

However - the downplaying is all TeamClinton at this point - she NEEDED a huge sweep going forward and she didn't get what they planned for the last 8 years did they?

[leftynyc]

39. Why does she need a huge sweep?

Who is saying that nonsense? All she needs is enough delegates to win the nomination -- nothing more.

[blm]

42. Because the next round of states are stronger for Obama. To dent him in the next round

she needed a huge air of WINNER and inevitability around her at this point.

Instead she's showing visible signs of weakness just as Obama is showing growing strength.

[karynnj]

31. The football win is not then apportioned proportionately

so your analogy doesn't fit. By your logic had HRC gotten 1 more vote it would be the same as if she won every vote.

[BlackVelvet04]

22. ...............

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Apollo11]

5. The point is that Iraq did not threaten the security of the USA.

So attacking Iraq had nothing to do with keeping America safe and secure.

PS It's Barack Obama - unless you listen to Rok music?

[bigtree]

12. Both Clinton and Kerry made the same vote. Yet Obama supported Kerry for president

seems hypocritical to criticize Clinton so vehemently and personally for the same vote, and posture as if it makes her the lesser candidate. His spin in the 2004 convention speech seemed to suggest he was holding Bush responsible.

[blm]

27. Kerry stayed TRUE to his position to oppose Bush if he went to war when circumstances

were proving force not necessary.

Hillary said she'd monitor Bush's reasons and then stayed TIGHT in her SUPPORT of Bush on his decisions up until Lieberman lost his primary race.

Hillary and Lieberman were on the SAME PAGE in their support of Bush up until that Connecticut primary loss.

[bigtree]

28. yet, that's not the argument your candidate is making.

His objections have centered on the vote itself. Kerry didn't get to issue a signing statement to his vote, and Bush couldn't have cared less about what he was saying on the Senate floor.

[blm]

29. Too bad - Kerry takes the IWR hits and shows character. Hillary gets hit and shows deceit

and revisionism.

[blm]

38. Hillary stayed on her support for Bush through 2006 until Lieberman lost his primary

race and she shifted her rhetoric a bit left.

May I ask why YOU fell for the revisionism you KNOW has been going on by the Clintons? You just don't seem to be the type to fall for what you KNOW is deceit.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

7. To funny, no wonder Omentum is dying!

[pampango]

8. It would have been much better for Obama to back away from Kerry?

I wonder if anyone would be bitter that he had not done all he could to help a Democratic candidate win the presidency? I assume that in party politics you have to figure out a way to support your fellow party members with whom you don't always agree, without outright lying or being dishonest.

I have heard people here complain that Hillary did not support Kerry as much as she could. You can get criticized for doing either.

[bigtree]

13. so much for sincerity then

It's all politics?

[pampango]

18. Hopefully not, but politicians seem to have a hard time avoiding it.

;)

I think Hillary voted for the IWR because she wanted to run for president, hence it was for politics. Kerry, Edwards, Biden and Dodd did the same thing. It was a smart (politically) vote. It protected them from the "soft on defense" Republican attack and was "plausibly deniable" later as caused by Bush's lies.

I don't think the five of them were any less able to see through Bush's lies and spin than were Wellstone, Kennedy, Feingold and Boxer (none of whom have run for president since). It's kind of hard to argue that our subsequent presidential candidates were "fooled" by Bush, while Wellstone, et al were able to see through the lies.

"Politics" is hard to avoid for politicians whether it is "selfish" politics of personal ambition or "party loyalty" politics of helping out people in your party. "Sincerity" sometimes plays second fiddle to it.

[karynnj]

34. There is no lack of sincerity in what he said

The insincerity you see seems to be in what he DIDN'T say. He was not obligated to itemize in the keynote speech all the ways he disagreed with the candidate. That first sentence is true - and could be said of Obama ... or HRC. Is there ANY potential American President who wouldn't? It is NOT about Iraq or Vietnam.

The circumstances were also different. He is competingwith HRC for the presidency, then he was making a keynote speech that would help set the tone for the Democratic convention. He was pretty much in agreement with Kerry going forward on what to do with Iraq - both wanted a regional diplomatic summit to get a political solution. Kerry's vote was in the past, he was the nominee and their views on what to do were reasonably compatible - so, he likely was able to happily support Kerry.

[bigtree]

36. spin. Kerry's vote got a pass, despite the fact that Obama now says it 'authorized'

the invasion and occupation. Hypocrisy.

[karynnj]

44. Kerry was attacked for longer and harder than anyone on this

The fact is that in 2004, the one I trusted the most to get us out if he became President was Kerry. That was because the steps he spoke of made sense. I have a bigger problem with her having led the fight against Kerry/Feingold - which I know Obama voted against too.

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. his option was to campaign for the guy who thought up the war in the first place

I think he made the wise choice.

[faithfulcitizen]

10. Similar to Wes Clark supporting Clinton?

that's politics

[boston bean]

15. He most certainly did give GWB the benefit of the doubt on Iran

he didn't vote no on the resolution, he even bother to show up.


It's amazing anyone believes what this guy says. He is a waffler of epic proportions. He is a manipulative politician to the bone.

[bigtree]

16. how did I forget that? . . . sleep

I posted about that point a while back. I wonder if he'll continue on that line of attack?

[Turn CO Blue]

20. I hugged my mother, loved her fiercely, even after I badmouthed

her repeatedly and often throughout my entire life. Yes, I'm a hypocrit. Should I have snubbed her instead? I also speak ill of certain decisions my boss has made and yet maintain an amiable, respectful relationship. Should I snub him?

You can disagree with someone and criticize them for an action without completely abandoning the relationship and can even be friends. Good god, look at James Carville and his wife Mary matalin.

Your premise is shaky.

[bigtree]

23. It's not shaky at all. This isn't about family or friends. It's about a political relationship

which began with Barak Obama speaking on behalf of Kerry, who was beleaguered by the criticism between the candidates about his vote. All of that support and praise didn't happen in a vacuum. And, they're back together for Sen. Obama's campaign. I think it's fair to question the sincerity of Sen. Obama's complaint that Sen. Clinton's vote 'authorized' the invasion -- and that action (vote) somehow disqualifies or diminishes her credibility on Iraq, in light of his embrace of John Kerry who cast an identical vote.

[karynnj]

30. There is no contradiction in those statements

In 2004, he was referring to Kerry's own assertion that he would fight non state terrorists in as smart a way as possible through intelligence, law enforcement and when needed military force. He, like every other speaker, made the point that a President Kerry would defend AMERICA as needed. It was not and is not controversial. Obama could and would say the same about himself. It was NOT a comment on Iraq or the IWR.

The second was was saying that he is in the position where the Republicans can not insist he also was for the war. That is an advantage. He is NOT saying he wouldn't support HRC as the candidate - just that this is not something he could have used against him.

[bigtree]

33. the support for Kerry's presidency was unmistakable. The quote is a measure of that support

Yet, Kerry made an identical vote as Ckinton -- the one Obama now says 'authorized' the invasion and occupation.

[karynnj]

35. It would be hypocritical if he said he could not support HRC for President because of the vote.

That sentence is NOT about Iraq. There were many other reasons to admire and respect Senator Kerry - that vote was NOT one of them. If HRC gets the nomination, he will support her, also in spite of that vote.

[robbedvoter]

43. If you knew then what you know now, would you vote for IWR? Kerry- yes. Hillary - No

Question asked the same time of both. In 2004.