Please, not Hillary.

[ramapo]

I don't hate Hillary but the thought of Hillary winning the nomination makes me sick.

She is smart, is a good debater, and her policies are basically as good as we're going to get.

There's one big problem.

I know but one enthusiastic Hillary supporter and that person is basically a tool of the Democratic Party machine.

I know many young people jolted out of their apathy and who are for the first time engaged and enthused about a candidate, Barack Obama. I don't know one enthusiastic young Hillary supporter.

I know Republicans who want to vote for Barack Obama. I don't know one Republican who would vote for Hillary.

I know many Democrats eager for a new face, a new direction. I know many Democrats who at best, in the GE, will hold their nose and vote for Hillary, at worst will sit it out, or vote for another candidate.

My world is limited but from my vantage it is clear that Barack Obama presents the best opportunity for victory come November.

I'm 53 years old. I've had hope shattered so many times that I couldn't begin to count them all. A Hillary nomination, especially if it comes from the super delegates, will put the party at risk of once again snatching defeat from the jaws of a sure victory.

America cannot afford that and to be selfish, I don't know that I could stand it.

I'm already a wreck about this. I just want to turn it off, to go away, to not care because I cannot deal with the thought that this story might have a bad ending. Yet I won't and I can't.

Is Barack a sure winner? Of course not. But he is our best chance and we only get one.

So I've opened up my checkbook and now put my hopes with the the voters in those states who have yet to cast their ballots.

[frogcycle]

1. sadly, I agree with you, but for one detail

I think Obama would be buried - he would not know what hit him - and his reactions to the slime would be perceived as childish and petulant.

Don't get me wrong - I would happily take either one - I just think we've put ourselves in a position, like the Iraq debacle, where there are no good answers

[ClericJohnPreston]

27. And that is because.....

the only REAL Democrat is John Edwards , and he was told to exit the scene. Now you have your choice of flavor of the same corporate candidate.

Enjoy the illusion of Democracy.

[tridim]

He was the best Democrat, but all of our candidates are real Democrats

Except for Gravel of course who is a Libertarian.

[flpoljunkie]

30. It is the Clintons who have shown their immaturity and petulance so far. Not Obama.

[themaguffin]

51. based on what? fighting a GE is TOTALLY different

[frogcycle]

70. based on nothing more than general impression

personal opinion.

I said "I think..., " not "here is the absolute incontrovertable fact that only I know because I am so frigging all knowing" like most folks here at DU. Just expressed an opinion. I don't need to defend it, and won't argue it.

[HopeforChange]

2. I agree. I don't want Hillary. She scares me.

I will not vote for her. Her records are sealed and something is not right behind the scenes.

Sorry, I respect her for trying but do not trust her to be my president.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. her and Bills records are sealed because fucking bush sealed them to protect his ass....fact

[RaleighNCDUer]

54. Bush CANNOT seal presidential records against the will of that

president. Bill & Hillary's records are their own, after the 12 year mark, and anything they WANT out prior to 1995 is outside Bush's realm.

If '92 - '94 are not available it's because Bill and Hillary don't WANT them available.

[yardwork]

11. Read John Dean's _Worse than Watergate_ to find out why the records are sealed.

Bush sealed them and won't open them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. GOMAMA!!!!

:bounce:

[meow mix]

4. no hillary. already had enough - all full sorry.

not gonna do it.

[Avalux]

5. Last night proved Hillary cannot carry the south and can't get the white male vote.

She will not win the GE against McCain. Democrats need to come to this realization.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. she got my dad, brother-in-law's, uncles and nephew's white soutern male votes

[RaleighNCDUer]

56. From the "wilds of upstate NY"? nt

[BlackVelvet04]

7. I know republicans who want to vote for Hillary but none

who want to vote for Obama. If Obama gets the nomination the republicans will have him as a side dish for lunch.

[JimGinPA]

45. That's just idiotic

:eyes:

[BlackVelvet04]

52. Yeah, I'm sorry....

the republicans will make nice with Obama....kumbayah and all that jazz.

[greguganus]

57. 4 repugs in my family are voting for Obama here in NC...

...and one of them has an "Obama 08" sticker on her car.

[foxer]

64. Rush ,Rupert and Ann

[yardwork]

8. People are voting for Hillary Clinton in the primaries.

Don't believe all the media stuff about Hillary Clinton. She's not that bad. Really.

[mwb970]

22. It's the far left and the far right that oppose Hillary so vehemently.

To the Freepers, Hillary is a socialist, or a communist, or another Chairman Mao (all seen on FR this week). To the most "progressive" DUers, she is a conservative, or a right-winger, or just as bad as bush (all seen on DU this week).

So, apparently she is a conservative communist in the Chairman Mao/george bush mold - just another socialist right-winger.

Sheesh. No wonder people can't find the real HRC!

[yardwork]

46. I'm as far left as it generally gets on DU, and I support Hillary.

She wasn't my first choice, but I'm happy to support her for president. I'll be happy to support Obama if he gets the nod.

Nobody is as bad as Bush, and no Democrat is nearly as bad as the Republicans. Ok, maybe Lieberman but he's not running.

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. So, she loses the far right and far left, and splits the center with

McCain. That looks like a losing formula to me.

[Kazak]

9. Obama's just going to turn right over...

when the election is stolen again. That's the feeling I get anyway...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. i am an enthusiastic hillary supporter. i am 29, queer, brown, immigrant and a woman

so dont let anyone tell you that those of us who vote for clinton were not enthusiastic. i cried after i cast my vote because i was so happy that my first vote ever went to her.

[boricua79]

24. we'll see if she cares about queers, brown, immigrant people...

when's she's too busy hosting "business" parties with her DLC kingmakers and their business ties.

you're NOT invited to that party...but you're surely invited to give them your vote.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. well since obama is too busy w.his donnie mcclurkin parties. i'll stick with a candidate i like

[boricua79]

72. yeah, because that's all he does

be at Donnie McClurkin parties.

Stick with your candidate. And cry when she loses to a unified REpublican base on an anti-Hillary rush.

[yardwork]

48. Snort. Obama hasn't exactly welcomed my queer body with open arms.

I'll vote for Obama if he's the nominee, but his campaign has seriously annoyed me by pandering to the worst kinds of homophobes. And please don't shriek that "Hillary did it too." She didn't.

[boricua79]

73. news flash: no candidate is "queer friendly"

Better get used to that. Kinda like a Mexican complaining that he can't find a candidate that will respect his heritage/culture/race (except Richardson). It's just the nature of the people/electorate. They don't like immigrants and ascribe the dirtiest stereotypical values to them. And they don't feel comfortable about gays, and ascribe the dirtiest stereotypical values to them too.

It's just the nature of the nation. Can't change that. Somethings you can't change in politics. The neanderthal nature of most of America when it comes to GLBT people is not something that will change soon.

Just give thanks they don't deny that you exist, like Iranian presidents do.

[State the Obvious]

13. Do you want a Republican president appointing judges?

I think it is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

Many Americans want Hillary to win the nomination so, as president, she can appoint SC judges.
Many REPUBLICANS want Hillary to win so they can RALLY THEIR PARTY against her. They NEED a common cause, and she would be it. And we all know how well the Republicans can rally the vote (and their "machines")

Just like in the OP, I have nothing against Hillary.....accept that she can't win. She is the reason that Democrats would lose the election. We are headed for ANOTHER defeat in November, if she is nominated.

[TexasObserver]

14. well said!!

"the thought of Hillary winning the nomination makes me sick."

I think many of us feel the same.

[demo dutch]

15. Obama or Clinton? Exit Polls say winning issues Economy #1, & Out of Iraq within 1 yr & healthcare

It's going to about the excitement of the Dem side (I really don't think massive amounts of people will tune out, then there are the ones that want out of Iraq, need healthcare and improve the econom. Add the the devision on the Repub side.

We'll beat McCain on every issue, so I see a dem in the WH, whether we fight about it right now or not!!!!

PS. Hoping for a combined ticket!

[State the Obvious]

19. Combined ticket will never happen....

The division "on the Repub side" will disappear for one reason..... If Hillary is the nominee, NOTHING will bring them together with such force and commitment. There will be a massive turnout to vote against her if she is the nominee.....

This is a game of chess, not checkers. You may get a Hillary nomination, but you will never get a Hillary president. The Republicans will band against her, and the Democrats will be the ones to stay home.

[demo dutch]

23. Sorry, I just do not believe it. Majority of country wants out of Iraq, Mc Cain simply

doesn't offer that, plus country trusts Dems with the economy, plus McCain doesn't offer any sort of healthcare solution. I'm sure that there will be some that won't vote Hillary but these are still major issues for Dems, and IF Obama doesn't make it, I'm sure he will support Hillary in the end no matter what AND vice versa.

[Yael]

59. Grab a random Republican and ask them

Would you prefer we get out of Iraq or stop a HRC presidency?

80% of the country may be against the war, but that doesn't take into account priority.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. You have absolutely no concept of the antipathy the right

has for Hillary, have you?

Why do you think Coulter and Lush Rimbaugh are saying they like her? When they have heartily despised her for the last 15 years? Because they WANT her to be the nominee who will rally the troops behind McCain.

McCain may be a moderate who the conservatives aren't happy about, but he is a REPUBLICAN moderate, and the Republicans WILL back him. He's moderate enough to draw the independents, who make up 40% of the electorate, who don't want the Clinton years back. And he will even pull some Dems - my sister's partner is saying that if he's the nominee it will make it a really hard decision for her.

For that matter, there are probably more than a few who know McCain won't do anything drastic to healthcare, and back him because they want single-payer public healthcare, rather than Hillary's insurance company driven 'plan' and know that if Hillary gets her way it will be another generation before a true single-payer plan can be effected -- better another 4 years of a bad problem than 25 years of insurance companies soaking us.

McCain will kick Hillary's butt. Guarantee it.

[K Gardner]

16. I'm the same age as you and I, too, feel the same way. Very well-stated !

[demo dutch]

17. I know a ton of young women who are thrilled at the prospect of a woman in office

[Ino]

18. Well, I was thrilled at Nancy Pelosi being Speaker of House

Now, not so much.

[State the Obvious]

21. Are they also thrilled that a Republican president will....

most assuredly end up appointing SC judges? ( if Hillary is the nominee and loses)

Choose your battles. Do you want Hillary in office?..... or do you want to win the election? You won't get both. There will be a groundswell of Republican hatred against her. It will rally their party into victory.

(I don't dislike Hillary, but every Republican I know is commited to keeping her out of office.....life isn't always logical.)

[demo dutch]

28. Sorry I just don't buy it. Majority of country wants out of Iraq, Mc Cain simply

doesn't offer that, plus country trusts Dems with the economy, plus McCain doesn't offer any sort of healthcare solution. I'm sure that there will be some that won't vote Hillary but these are still major issues for Dems, and IF Obama doesn't make it, I'm sure he will support Hillary in the end no matter what AND vice versa, because they are still both democrats who's ultimate goal is to put an end to the Repug rule!

[boricua79]

25. sure...just not this one

Michelle Obama, on the other hand... I would vote for in a hearbeat.

[demo dutch]

29. That's a moot point! Look I just don't buy it. Majority of country wants

out of Iraq, Mc Cain simply doesn't offer that, plus country trusts Dems with the economy, plus McCain doesn't offer any sort of healthcare solution. I'm sure that there will be some that won't vote Hillary but these are still major issues for Dems, and IF Obama doesn't make it, I'm sure he will support Hillary in the end no matter what AND vice versa, because they are still both democrats who's ultimate goal is to put an end to the Repug rule!

[boricua79]

33. you're thinking rationally

a lot of voters don't think rationally...and lots of voters don't like Clinton.

if she is nominated, me, a dedicated progressive, will stay home. And I'm pretty politically-knowledgeable....imagine Joe Sixpack who has a gut hatred of Clinton.

[demo dutch]

42. Sure some wont think rationally, however after the last disastrous 8 yrs and the way

republican party has behaved, the odds are in our favor. All you need to do is look at public opinion polls. That said, it will be a battle for either candidate, the percentages of Obama or Clinton beating McCain don't look like a landslide on either side at the moment and both Dem candidates will need all the Dem votes they can get, and I believe they'll will come through.

I' sorry to see that you would consider sacreficing a Dem WH and the chance to push for progressive ideas when the dems are in office (it's the reason Kucinich goes to work everyday!) and choose 8 more yrs of GOP crap by not voting. Then again the RW haters won't vote for McCain, so hopefully you'll cancel each other out.

[boricua79]

71. you'd better hope that

Remember that RW tend to "fall in line more". Chances are, they'll support McCain. We don't know what his running mate will be.

We Democrats tend to think and go our own way more often.

Having a "Dem WH" is not my goal. Having a president who I support is what matters to me.

I cannot go to sleep at night knowing I just voted for DLCists. So, the Democratic party better shape up and give us Obama as prez, and maybe Edwards as VP. Or it WILL lose many of us non-Clintonites.

[RaleighNCDUer]

61. By the way you keep repeating the same thing in answer to every

comment, I think that maybe you don't really know what you are talking about.

I don't care if Obama will support her if she gets the nod. I WON'T support her.

If the Clintons wanted to "put an end to the repug rule" why did Bill kill the investigations into Iran/Contra, BCCI, etc.? Why did every major initiative he signed off on in his two terms come from those same repugs? Where were the DEMOCRATIC initiatives?

[OnionPatch]

20. Have to agree.

I think all the surge of Democratic voters in the primaries are mainly coming out for Obama. These are people who don't even bother to vote half the time. I make this assessment from personal observation. All the Dems in my local Dem club are for Hillary. They are older and have been involved in the party for decades. However, most of the younger and middle-aged people I know are so excited about Obama and for the first time they seem to be really involved and interested in politics. I'm really worried their support will all but disappear if she is the nominee, and we'll be back to politics as usual. I have an "independent" brother-in-law who I use as a gauge for the middle-ground crowd. He voted (hesitantly) for Bush the first time, declined to vote at all in 2004 and now is supporting Obama with enthusiasm. I asked him if he will vote for Hillary if she wins. The answer was, to put it shortly, no.

This is not to say I hate Hillary. I like her ok and will support her. I'm just not at all confident that she can beat McCain this fall. I feel in my bones that if Obama is our nominee, it will be a landslide for the Dems.

[State the Obvious]

31. OnionPatch, I agree with you 100%.

I am afraid the Democratic party is destined to be that "lonely little petunia in an onion patch."

[OnionPatch]

36. Lol, someone gets my name!

I'm afraid it is lost on most posters here. I guess it's a pretty old song. :shrug:

[State the Obvious]

68. ...that must make us "pretty old"...but also VERY wise. nt

[Arugula Latte]

26. I agree. I'm a white woman and I feel sick when I contemplate a Hillary nomination.

I'd love a woman prez ... but this one will dash our chances of retaking the White House.

[demo dutch]

32. Look I just don't buy it. Majority of country wants out of Iraq, McCain

simply doesn't offer that, plus country trusts Dems with the economy, plus McCain doesn't offer any sort of healthcare solution. I'm sure that there will be some that won't vote Hillary but these are still major issues for Dems, and IF Obama doesn't make it, I'm sure he will support Hillary in the end no matter what AND vice versa, because they are still both democrats who's ultimate goal is to put an end to the Repug rule!

[State the Obvious]

37. Except for one thing....Republicans don't think logically.

If they were concerned about war, healthcare, the economy....they never would have elected Bush the second time.

They want to rally their base, so they can appoint THEIR judges to reverse Roe v. Wade. THAT is their ONLY concern. They hate Hillary so much, that they will move mountains (and voting machines) to rally against her. She will unite their party. (Again, this group of Republicans do not care about Iraq, healthcare or the economy....these Republican zealots only care about reversing Roe v. Wade.) They WANT Hillary to be the nominee.

[demo dutch]

53. The war has become a much bigger issue now and so is the economy & Healthcare

tht true for repubs because 4 yrs ago, they still believed W since then the tide has changed.

[bpeale]

35. please, not obama

the thought of an obama presidency will make me work even harder to elect clinton. the last thing we need is ANOTHER president who needs OJT (on the job training).

JUST SAY NO TO OBAMA!

[krkaufman]

38. Yes, Obama is SO George W Bush-redux. n/t

[bpeale]

50. exactly. he is.

better the devil you know than the devil you don't know i always say.

[State the Obvious]

39. Then we will have you to thank for our loss in Novemember. nt

[bpeale]

49. well here's my email then

[e-mail]. will be glad to gloat over your candidate's body

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. Every president gets OJT.

Even Hillary would - she was NOT the president in the 90s. All the pretending in the world will not make it so.

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. Sure you know Republicans that want to vote for Obama. That's part of their plan!

They'll vote to get Obama in as the Dem candidate and in the GE McCain and the corporate owned MSM will open Obama's dirty closet just in time for the GE. That's how they work! KKKRove is working in the shadows.

Why do you think the MSM is building Obama up and trying their best to destroy Hillary? You don't honestly think they want Obama over McCain, do you? The MSM is CORPORATE OWNED. The Corporations want a REPUKE in office! Obama will NOT win a GE. Hillary can kick McCain's ass. They have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at Hillary and she's still standing. She's been vetted and Obama has had a free ride during the Primaries. She can take whatever the repukes dish out. She has proven to me that she is one tough lady! She will win and the repuke KNOW that...that's why they want to run against Obama.

[State the Obvious]

41. Hillary's closet is dirtier than Obama's, and Repubs know it. nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

63. Hillary's closet was CLEANED OUT A LONG TIME AGO! They have NOTHING on that woman.

Barack is a different story. Hillary has fought them for years and years and yeas and won. Obama will NOT win.

[missTheBigDog]

55. Excellent post!

And I agree 100%!

[cooolandrew]

43. Totally appreciate your post, very heart felt. Yes, be objective the maths says Barack. Big please.

If I had to beg I would beg we just soooo, cannot afford to lose this, there will be a woman president no question but will there be a future if we lose to McCain, more war is the last thing we need.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=91278&mesg_id=91278

[hedgehog]

44. I'm a 53 year old woman and I feel the same way. Does this mean we're

both secretly in the pay of the Obama campaign? If so, when do I get my check?

[Pastiche423]

69. Check?

I haven't received one either. Maybe it's in the mail?

I am 53, as well and I will not vote for Clinton. It has nothing to do w/gender. I am female and would be ecstatic if Barbara Boxer was running.

Btw, I do not have a horse in this race. My horse never made it to the starting gate.

[faithfulcitizen]

47. I hear ya, *many* of my 30ish repub , church-goin, Hoosier, white friends love Obama.

Some are completely clueless about politics, but they are possibly the 1st generation in their families to vote Dem. They do not like (to be nice) Hillary Clinton and feel she makes them the "enemy". These are the type that don't like McCain, and much prefer Huckabee. I know, it's just my world and anecdotal, but still...

[RedEarth]

65. I agree...... I know of republicans who would vote for Obama as well .... Clinton, no way

would they consider voting for her. The main thing I want is to have a democrat in the White House and hopefully keep control of both houses. With Clinton, I very concerned we might lose all three. And if we did lose all three, at least two more Supreme Court judges would be put in place by the right wing....and that impact can last 20+ years.

Also, we have a unquie chance to rally the younger voters to the democratic party with Obama. I'm 60 and both of my colleged aged children voted for Obama. I also know of several parents who voted Clinton and their kids voted Obama. I'm not sure our party will have an opportunity like this for years to come.

[ramapo]

66. Last in our lifetime

I don't think that it is overly dramatic to claim this as an opportunity that will not present itself again for decades.

Obama clearly transcends most traditional boundaries. I do not know if he can overcome the machine politics. If he is defeated by DNC/DLC tactics like using the MN/FL delegates or even with the super delegates negating a possible lead in regular delegates, then the party will devour itself while the Republicans enjoy the show and then walk over the ashes of a squandered opportunity.

[Perry Logan]

67. May I recommend a support group for Clintonphobics? Bring your own barf bags.

[Raine]

74. Good post

I share your concerns and appreciate how you were able to put it together so well and share.