I heard a pundit comment that the newer gen women may not have the same emotional identification

[bigtree]

. . . with the advance of a woman to the presidency, as older women may, who have experienced a greater degree of discrimination and barriers to their own success. "Making a choice (in the campaign) for the mother or for the daughter" is how it was put.

Does it make sense that this dynamic may have any significant effect on how Hillary Clinton's historic advance in this campaign is perceived or welcomed?

[Heidi]

1. The same emotional identification as what/whom? Their/our mothers? Husbands? Male colleagues?

I don't understand the question/theory. :shrug:

[bigtree]

2. I'm sorry . . . *with the (potential) advancement of a woman to the presidency

[Heidi]

3. I can't give you an answer, I'm afraid. I'm 44. My mother is 63.

She and I* both were Edwards supporters, but she never really believed Edwards could win and knew far before I did that she'd be voting for Sen. Clinton. My mother and I were raised in the same state; we're about 19 years apart in age; both university educated with post-grad work. However, I do believe that my path as a professional person (25 years as a journalist, now working 50 percent as a communications consultant and 50 percent as an independent artist) has been far smoother and less muddled with discrimination than my mother's path as a professional educator (35+ years as a professional, public schools educator).

Our paths converge, and diverge, at the understanding that Hillary Clinton is well-known to both of us. Mom has lived all of her adult life one hour from Arkansas; I lived the first 20 years of my life one hour from Arkansas.

What I believe is that Sen. Clinton, while not my first choice, is far left of what she has led the electorate to believe in her Senate votes and in her campaign. It is for this reason only that I will be able to vote, reasonably comfortably, for her in the GE, should she get the Democratic Party nomination. The woman factor is probably more important to my mother, in terms of "voting by vibe," because my mother obviously did face greater equality struggles than I did, and who retired comfortably thanks to her OWN struggles and not primarily due to my father's career. (In other words, she could have retired comfortably single, but not as comfortably as she has as the spouse of a male retiree.)

I don't know that any of this is at all helpful. I don't think either my mother or I are intent on advancing a woman in particular so much as a Democrat. We can influence a Democrat, whoever it may be. We have a snowball's chance in hell of influencing Huckabee or McCain.

*I identify by belief system, rather than gender, party, race, sexual orientation, income, etc. My mother identifies by race (Cherokee/Caucasian), gender, straight-ticket Dem, upper middle class.

:shrug:

[bigtree]

4. that's great insight. especially the part about the perception Sen. Clinton has made with her votes

. . . that she's more conservative (than she actually is). I agree with that, because that's how her husband ran. He may have taken a decidedly more liberal stance as president, however, because most of the Democrats who were left when republicans took the majority were those elected by diehard liberal voters. He needed their support. You can see where he bent to the right, on some issues . . . That's the concern of her detractors, but I tend to agree with her friends who have written that she has much more of a liberal awareness and sensitivity than her husband.

[Heidi]

5. That's why, if we elect her, we have to be committed to pushing her in the right directions.

This "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing and DOMA are absolute horseshit, in my opinion, but they're also opportunities for progressives to say, "We tolerated this once, but we won't put up with it any more. Get your shit together, gf."

[faithfulcitizen]

6. Perhaps younger women can't relate to the "stand by your man" for political gain mentality? nt.

[Heidi]

7. Lots of us can understand the "stand by your soulmate" mentality, just so you know.

Ya know, a guy's penis and its demographics aren't always the thing we shallow women value most about a partner. But thanks for the value judgment. :eyes:

[faithfulcitizen]

10. Good for you. But, soulmates? ...that's sweet.

and as Bill would say a "fairytale."

[Heidi]

13. Sounds to me like you'd favor leading or being led by male appendage.

We're not all like you, I'm pleased to say. :hi:

[bigtree]

8. No doubt, other issues dominate for many women

but, on the issue of the potential advancement of a woman to the presidency, you believe it takes a back seat to concerns over her reaction to her husband's affair? I haven't seen that measured anywhere.

[LisaM]

9. I think that is a very true observation

I am always amazed at the difference between women above and below, say, about 45 years old. Those on the + side really see the idea of a woman president as a breakthrough, to those younger, it's more business as usual. The younger ones probably see a lot of women bosses (I know our company has a lot) though perhaps don't notice that at the very highest levels, the positions still tend to be held by men. Congress itself has a very low percentage of women officials compared to general numbers (much more true on the Republican side).

I frequently hear younger women use the word "feminist" derogatorily. They don't want to identify with it. Perhaps it's 15 years of Rush Limbaugh seeping into the mainstream, but people view the term negatively.

Although I certainly don't mean this to imply that racism is dead, or that it wouldn't also be a fantastic breakthrough to have an African-American president, I have been asking people this question lately: The Civil Rights Act passed in the 1960's. When did the Equal Rights Amendment pass?

So far, no one (and these are all people under 45) has answered correctly (answer is: never). Try it. You'll be amazed.

Since my candidate is out, I am voting my heart. I didn't realize until Edwards dropped out how much I wanted to see a woman president in my lifetime.

[Elspeth]

11. "The Civil Rights Act passed in the 1960's. When did the Equal Rights Amendment pass?"

God, that jumped out at me.

[bigtree]

12. thanks so much for the insight

It really hadn't occurred to me before I heard it, but I can see parallels with my own experiences with my race and the younger generation's perception that there isn't a need for the same vigilance practiced by my parent's generation.

Oh, and, I marched in DC in support of the ERA in my teens. No dice . . . yet.

[Captain Hilts]

14. True. "I'm not a feminist, but....." crowd. nt