With the country as FUCKED as it is, I want proven leaders like the Clintons, not experiments.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

Dynasty? Bring it on.

[Angela Shelley]

1. Dynasty was harmless and you could turn off the TV.

[Hoof Hearted]

129. Yes, and I find it utterly ignorant that anyone would vote against someone because of their name.

Those who bring up the fact that Hillary's last name is Clinton as a reason not to vote for her are just as dumb as those who say they wouldn't vote for a guy who's middle name is Hussein.

[Lerkfish]

2. so you're proposing a co-presidency with Bill and Hillary?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

4. Not so much proposing as acknowledging that reality. Like the first 8 years.

[Kittycat]

7. Ah yes... The reality that gave us Bush/Cheney for 8 yrs

Sounds like a good plan :eyes:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

31. The supreme court gave us bush cheney, or are you adopting rePUKE talking points?

[Kittycat]

35. If Bill hadn't messed around so much (in the literal terms)

Maybe we wouldn't have lost everything from the congress to the white house afterwards. Gore win would have been decisive enough, that SCOTUS would never have had a chance to get involved.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

38. We won the 1998 elections BECAUSE of impeachment.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

39. and in 94 when we lost the congress it was because Clinton made gays and health care priorities

Obama's solution will be not to "upset" the rePUKES and rolling over

[RaleighNCDUer]

103. And Hillary is running this time on healthcare and gays in the military.

Sounds like a winner.

[surfermaw]

77. Kitty Cat isn't Kennedy (JFK one of your Idols

He whored all over the White House even brought in Mob Boss's Whores.

[in_cog_ni_to]

92. Get your damn facts straight if you're going to spew your freeper talking points!

Bill Clinton left office with a 65% approval rating. Nader was in the 2000 election and took Dem votes. Katherine Harris PURGED 60,000 voters from the voter rolls. The repukes harassed Dem voters and wouldn't let them vote. The police stopped voters on their way to DEMOCRATIC voting polls. The repukes sent out fliers to Democrats ONLY telling them to vote ON THE WRONG DAY. The repukes PURPOSELY fucked up the ballots to make it difficult for people to vote and the freakin' SCOTUS appointed your favorite President, The Psycho.

Bill Clinton had NOTHING to do with Florida. People with BRAINS love Bill Clinton.

[RaleighNCDUer]

100. You get YOUR facts straight.

If Bill hadn't helped cover up Iran/Contra and BCCI, in a futile attempt to engender the good will of the repuglicans, Shrub would have NEVER been considered gubernatorial material for Texas, much less presidential material. The bush name would have been toxic.

Bills great successes were Repbulican initiatives -- NAFTA, welfare reform, DOMA, DADT. The one Dem initiative, Hillarycare, went down in FLAMES.


Clinton was a miserable failure with great charisma. Nothing more.

[in_cog_ni_to]

108. Bullshit., but go ahead and keep pushing your stupid shit against a Democratic President. Smart.

REAL Smart...... Bill Clinton had NOTHING to do with Gore's 2000 loss.


Bill Clinton's AWESOME record:

longest economic expansion in American history--a record 115 months of economic expansion
More than 22 million new jobs: more than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration
Highest home ownership in American history
Made the Federal government smaller (a feat matched only by Harry Truman; if you like small government, vote Democratic)
Lowest unemployment in 30 years: unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000; unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women was the lowest in more than 40 years
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
Lowest crime rate in 26 years.
Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
Higher incomes at all levels: after falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family's income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation; all income brackets experienced double-digit growth; the bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years: the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent in 1999--the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union: efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt: under Clinton, we were on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009; what a difference a stolen election makes...
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Lowest government spending in three decades
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
More families owned stock than ever before
Most New Jobs Ever Created Under a Single Administration: Republicans really chew the rug when you mention this one, so it's worth repeating constantly
Median Family Income Up $6,000 since 1993
Unemployment at Its Lowest Level in More than 30 Years
Highest Home ownership Rate on Record
7 Million Fewer Americans Living in Poverty
Largest Surplus Ever
Lower Federal Government Spending: after increasing under the previous two administrations, federal government spending as a share of the economy was cut from 22.2 percent in 1992 to 18 percent in 2000--the lowest level since 1966
The Most U.S. Exports Ever: between 1992 and 2000, U.S. exports of goods and services grew by 74 percent, or nearly $500 billion, to top $1 trillion for the first time
Lowest Inflation since the 1960s: inflation was at the lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration, averaging 2.5 percent, down from 4.6 percent during the previous administration
The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent
The poverty rate for single mothers was the lowest ever
The African American and elderly poverty rates dropped to their lowest level on record
The Hispanic poverty rate dropped to its lowest level since 1979
Lowest Poverty Rate for Single Mothers on Record: under President Clinton, the poverty rate for families with single mothers fell from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 35.7 percent in 1999, the lowest level on record
Smallest Welfare Rolls Since 1969: between January 1993 and September of 1999, the number of welfare recipients dropped by 7.5 billion (a 53 percent decline) to 6.6 million. In comparison, between 1981-1992, the number of welfare recipients increased by 2.5 million (a 22 percent increase) to 13.6 million people
Lowest Federal Income Tax Burden in 35 Years: Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family dropped to their lowest level in 35 years
Higher Incomes even after Taxes and Inflation: real after-tax incomes grew by an average of 2.6 percent per year for the lower-income half of taxpayers between 1993 and 1997, while growing by an average of 1.0 percent between 1981 and 1993
AGAINST TERRORISM

# PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator of anti-terrorist efforts.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold the Al Qaeda millennium hijacking and bombing plots.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to kill the Pope.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Boston airport.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.
# Bill Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).
# Bill Clinton brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.
# Bill Clinton did not blame the Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after Bush left office. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.
# Bill Clinton named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to tighten airport security. (Remember, this is before 911) The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to allow for better tracking of terrorist funding. It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to add tagents to explosives, to allow for better tracking of explosives used by terrorists. It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.
# Bill Clinton increased the military budget by an average of 14 per cent, reversing the trend under Bush I.
# Bill Clinton tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.
# Bill Clinton detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries.
# Bill Clinton created national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.
# Of Clinton's efforts says Robert Oakley, Reagan Ambassador for Counterterrorism: "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama".
# Paul Bremer, current Civilian Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley as he believed the Bill Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden.
# Barton Gellman in the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Bill Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort".
http://liberalslikechrist.org/about/clinton.html
ON THE ENVIRONMENT
Bill Clinton issued an Executive Order on Environmental Justice to ensure that low-income citizens and minorities do not suffer a disproportionate burden of industrial pollution. Launched pilot projects in low-income communities across the country to redevelop contaminated sites into useable space, create jobs and enhance community development.

President Bill Clinton sought permanent funding of $1.4 billion a year through the Lands Legacy initiative to expand federal efforts to save America's natural treasures and provide significant new resources to states and communities to protect local green spaces and protect ocean and coastal resources. Won $652 million for Lands Legacy in the FY 2000 budget, a 42 percent increase.

Launched effort to protect over 40 million acres of "roadless areas," which include some of America's last wild places. Dramatically improved management of our national forests with an ambitious new science-based agenda that places greater emphasis on recreation, wildlife and water quality, while reforming logging practices to ensure steady, sustainable supplies of timber and jobs. Balanced the preservation of old-growth stands with the economic needs of timber-dependent communities through the Pacific Northwest Forest Plan.

Adopted a uniform tailpipe standard to passenger cars, SUVs and other light-duty trucks, producing cars that are 77 percent cleaner -- and light-duty trucks up to 95 percent cleaner -- than those on the road today. Set new standard to reduce average sulfur levels in gasoline by up to 90 percent. Once fully implemented in 2030, these measures will prevent 43,000 premature deaths and 173,000 cases of childhood respiratory illness each year, and reduce emissions by the equivalent to removing 164 million cars from the road.

# Approved strong new clean air standards for soot and smog that could prevent up to 15,000 premature deaths a year and improve the lives of millions of Americans who suffer from respiratory illnesses. Defending the standards against legal assaults by polluters.

# Accelerating Toxic Waste Cleanups. Completed cleanup at 515 Superfund sites, more than three times as many as the previous two administrations, with cleanup of more than 90 percent of all sites either completed or in progress. Secured $1.4 billion in FY 2000 to continue progress toward cleaning up 900 Superfund sites by 2002.

# Providing Safe Drinking Water: Proposed and signed legislation to strengthen the Safe Drinking Water Act and ensure that our families have healthy clean tap water. Required America's 55,000 water utility companies to provide regular reports to their customers on the quality of their drinking water.

# Established EPA's Drinking Water State Revolving Fund (DWSRF) that provides grants to States to finance priority drinking water projects that meet Clean Water Act mandates. To date, the DWSRFs have provided $1.9 billion in loans to communities.

# Awarded nearly $200 million in Department of Agriculture (USDA) loans and grants for over 100 safe drinking water projects in rural areas of 40 states. USDA grants and loans target rural communities plagued by some of the nation's worst water quality and dependability problems.

# Expanded Safe Drinking Water Act protections to protect 40 million additional Americans in small communities from potentially dangerous microbes, including Cryptosporidium, in their drinking water.

# Ensuring Clean Water. Launched the Clean Water Action Plan to help clean up the 40 percent of America's surveyed waterways still too polluted for fishing and swimming. Secured $3.9 billion since 1998, a 16 percent increase, to help states, communities and landowners in reducing polluted runoff, enhancing natural resource stewardship, improving citizens' right to know, and protecting public health.

# Strengthening Communities' Right to Know. Strengthened the public's right to know about chemicals released into their air and water by partnering with the chemical industry and the environmental community in an effort to provide complete data on the potential health risks of the 2,800 most widely used chemicals. Nearly doubled the number of chemicals that industry must report to communities, while expanding the number of facilities that must report by 30 percent.

# Expanded the community right to know about releases of 27 persistent bio-accumulative toxins (including mercury, dioxin, and PCBs). These highly toxic chemicals are especially risky because they do not break down easily and are known to accumulate in the human body.

# Secured $83 million in FY 2000 for two major new efforts to restore salmon in the Pacific Northwest: $58 million for the Pacific Coastal Salmon Recovery Fund, which provides resources for states and tribes to protect and rebuild salmon stocks; and $25 million to implement the historic Pacific Salmon Treaty with Canada, which established two regional funds to improve fisheries management and enhance bilateral scientific cooperation between the two countries and provides funding to buy back fishing permits in Washington.
# Expanding Wildlife Refuges. Added 57,000 acres, including lands along the last free-flowing section of the Columbia River, to the Saddle Mountain National Wildlife Refuge to protect salmon habitat in Washington.

# Forging Partnerships to Protect Habitat. Completed 255 major Habitat Conservation Plans (HCPs), compared to 14 before the Administration took office, to protect more than 20 million acres of private land and over 170 threatened and endangered species. These voluntary agreements protect habitat while providing landowners the certainty they need to effectively manage their lands.

# Strengthening Protections for Wildlife. Signed legislation that strengthens protections for wildlife by mandating that the most important use of our nation's wildlife refuges is giving refuge to migratory birds and other animals reliant on this rich system of natural habitat.

Protecting our Oceans and Coasts

# Creating Comprehensive Oceans Policy. Directed the development of key recommendations for strengthening federal oceans policy for the 21st century and appointed a high-level task force to oversee the implementation of those recommendations. Convened a National Ocean Conference in June 1998 that brought together government experts, business executives, scientists, environmentalists, elected officials and the public to examine opportunities and challenges in restoring and protecting our ocean resources.

# Strengthening Our National Marine Sanctuaries. Secured a funding increase of over 100% to better support national marine sanctuaries -- homes to coral reefs, kelp forests, humpback whales, and loggerhead turtles. Supporting the five-year Sustainable Seas Expeditions to explore, study and document ways to better protect underwater resources.

# Preserving Coral Reefs. Issued an Executive Order to expand protection of coral reefs and their ecosystems to address issues of coral reef management, expansion of marine protected areas and increased protections for coral reef species.

# Protecting Marine Mammals. Led negotiations resulting in a multilateral agreement to protect dolphins in the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean. Issued new standards to protect the endangered northern right whale from injuries from ships by instituting a first-ever ship reporting requirement in two areas of right whale critical habitat. Fought for creation of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, an area of more than 12 million square miles off the coast of Antarctica.

# Banning Ocean Dumping of Toxic Waste. Led the world in calling for a global ban on ocean dumping of low-level radioactive waste. The U.S. was the first nuclear power to advocate the ban.

Introduced "Better America Bonds" to generate $10.75 billion in bond authority over five years to preserve open space, improve water quality and clean up abandoned and contaminated properties known as brownfields. Local communities can work together in partnerships with land trust groups, environmentalists, business leaders and others to develop innovative solutions to their community's development challenges.

# Provided leadership critical to successful negotiation of the Kyoto Protocol, which sets strong, realistic targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and establishes flexible, market-based mechanisms to achieve them as cost-effectively as possible.

# Investing in Clean Energy Research. Won more than $1 billion in FY 1999 and in FY 2000 for the Climate Change Technology Initiative, a program of clean energy research and development that will save energy and consumers money. Extended the tax credits for wind and biomass energy production through 2001, reducing emissions and reliance on imported oil.

# Growing Clean Energy Technologies. Issued an Executive Order to coordinate federal efforts to spur the development and use of bio-based technologies, which can convert crops, trees and other "biomass" into a vast array of fuels and materials. Set a goal of tripling our use of bioenergy and bioproducts by 2010 to reduce annual greenhouse gas emissions by up to 100 million tons a year -- the equivalent of taking 70 million cars off the road.

# Improving Scientific Understanding. Increased funding for the United States Global Change Research Program to more than $1.7 billion in FY 2000 to provide a sound scientific understanding of both the human and natural forces that influence the Earth's climate system. This record research budget continues strong support for the "Carbon Cycle Initiative" begun last year to improve our understanding of the role of farms, forests, and other natural or managed lands in capturing carbon.

# Energy Efficiency Standards for Appliances. Issued new energy efficiency standards for refrigerators, refrigerator-freezers, freezers and room air conditioners that will save consumers money and reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and dependence on foreign oil. The new standards will cut the average appliance's energy usage by 30 percent and save more than seven quadrillion BTUs of energy over the next 30 years, more than seven times the annual energy consumption of the entire state of Arkansas.

# Promoting federal Energy Efficiency. Issued an Executive Order directing federal agencies to reduce energy use in buildings 35 percent by 2010, reducing annual greenhouse gas emissions by the equivalent of taking 1.7 million cars off the road and saving taxpayers over $750 million a year. Forged new partnerships with industry to develop and promote energy-saving cars, homes and consumer products with the potential to save Americans hundreds of millions of dollars in energy bills and significantly curb greenhouse gas pollution.
http://www.environmentalcaucus.org/gore.html

[RaleighNCDUer]

110. A fucking information bomb doesn't change the facts.

90% of that is due to the tech boom. When Bill came into office, most of the 20% of people who had computers had 8088 dual floppies. The internet was just a rumor. When he left 50% of households had computers and internet, and the machines had up to 4gig hard drives. Most of the huge economic advances were due SOLELY to that boom, and the ripple effect it had.

I'm not saying he did nothing right - he was, after all, at least nominally a Democratic president, but the real terrorists who had previously occupied the WH he did nothing about. And because of that, they came back.

We don't need someone who makes a few temporary gains, just to have them thrown away by not fighting the enemy at home.

Hillary and the DLC are not the solution - they are the problem.

[Zhade]

136. Truth. Nice to see it around here these days.

NT!

[Deep13]

46. It is a good plan because your premise is false.

That happens a lot around here.

[mckeown1128]

22. So you admit that Hillary was responsible for...

Don't ask, Don't tell and NAFTA and none intervention in Rowanda.... well at least your admitting it.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

33. "Ask and tell" would still be the policy of PUKES were in office and the current policy will

be eliminated soon enough. Rwanda was a mistake and apologized for.

[Deep13]

68. DADT was an improvement over the previous system...

...and all Congress would allow. Frankly I supported NAFTA in 1993 and my wife's business still benefits from it. They make stuff here and sell it to Canada and Mexico. Don't forget that China a party to NAFTA. It has also recently come out that HC was against NAFTA and urged Bill C not to accept it. This is according to Carl Bernstein who wrote a biography of HC.

We did not have the means to intervene in Rwanda. It is a huge country and the conflict was enormous. Also there was no reason to think Congress would have supported it since we really had no material interest in it.

Frankly, many of the accusations leveled at the Clintons by O. supporters suggest an astonishing ignorance of history.

[rodeodance]

76. And she said in her TownHall she will scrape DADT

[Lerkfish]

79. But it was leagues away from Clinton's campaign promise to allow

gays in the military.

DADT was a horrible compromise that did nothing to secure anyone's rights, just keep people in a closet.

NAFTA is the precursor to our current economic recession.

Deregulating Media ownership gave us Fox news, among other things.


if we did not have the means to intervene in Rwanda, why did we intervene in Kosovo and Somalia?

I agree that some people have an astonishing ignorance of history. I would even say some people are WILLFULLY ignorant.

[Deep13]

91. Why don't we dicuss this in 18 months.

In O. wins we will see how many of his promises he has kept. Congress makes laws, not the president.

[Lerkfish]

96. non sequitor

whether Obama does or doesn't keep campaign promises does not change that Clinton did not keep his regarding gays in the military.
Your point was that someone else was ignoratnt of history, and I was simply pointing out that instead you were.
what happens in the future doesn't change your willful ignorance.

additionally, I'm not an Obama supporter, so trashing him in an effort to get a rise out of me won't work.

[Deep13]

104. In that case you observation has no relevance to this election.

I was assuming you intended it to be.

[Lerkfish]

107. LOL! ad hominem, and a pointless one at that.

how many other logical fallacies you want to go for?

My observation is relevant, regardless of whom I ultimately vote for. I do not have to be partisan to correctly remember history. However, it appears in some cases, being partisan can make you mis-remember history.

[mckeown1128]

127. My point is that you can't give Hillary credit for the...

accomplishments of her husband's time in the White House without giving her credit for the failures. She can't brag about how "we balanced the budget"(as she said in one debate) and then say that she had nothing to do with NAFTA.

[Lerkfish]

25. why are you being such a misogynist?

why are you suggesting Hillary can't handle the job on her own without her husband?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

30. I didn't say that I said it was the same the first 8 years meaning she was co president

[Lerkfish]

72. So, Pickles is the current co president?

:shrug:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

74. I doubt it.

[Lerkfish]

82. just following your own logic.

although I must admit its a very short trip.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

88. My logic doesn't say "all" spouses are co presidents it says that's true with Clintons

[Lerkfish]

97. right. as I said, you're suggesting a copresidency which diminishes hillary

and I'm saying you would not do that if she were not a woman.

[RaleighNCDUer]

105. Oh, so you mean Bill couldn't have done it without HER.

So SHE is responsible for NAFTA, Telecoms deregulation, DADT, DOMA, the covereup of Reagan/Bush crimes.

THAT changes EVERYTHING.

[jannyk]

3. Couldn't agree more. nt

[SoFlaJet]

5. yea just what we need

more divisiveness and an energized RW-slime machine base throwing everything it has at it's most hated rivals.They couldn't have prayed for a better scenario than more Clinton hatred to drive them right back into the WH...all they are "proven" at is fucking the democratic party up again. No thanks

[Proud2BAmurkin]

17. The slime machine wasn't energized by "Clinton" it was energized by a DEMOCRAT WINNING

[RockyTorres]

132. Mary Matalin just said on the Glenn Beck show that

if McCain gets the candidacy, and goes against Clinton that is not going to stir up the Republican machine. She flat out said that "GOP hatred for her will not build up enough of a case for conservatives to come together and vote for McCain". Many would rather just not vote..

[DJ13]

6. Conservative leaders got us IN this mess

Another conservative (Hillary) isnt the answer.

We need liberal ideas not rooted in the staid economic theories espoused by the Clintons in the 90's to solve our problems now.

Or putting it another way.....economically Hillary aint no FDR, and we need another FDR now.

[ursi]

8. No Democrat alive at this moment has dealt with this level of fucked-up-ness

George W. Bush is a unique animal and he has done very unique things to our country, our lives, our credibility, our economy, our military, our diplomacy ...experience in that does not exist. Look at Congress.

[karlrschneider]

13. Which begs the obvious question: Why the hell would any sane, honest person even WANT the job.

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Yes, dynasties in the WH have worked so well for the last 8 years.

Four more years!

:eyes:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

19. "dynasty" wasn't the problem the last 8 years, BUSH dynasty was.

[blm]

69. How was a Bush even POSSIBLE after all the crimes of Bush1? Bill Clinton PROTECTED Poppy

throughout the 90s.

Think about that and wonder what ever happened to ALL the illegal operations that Clinton could have helped by accessing the documents that Poppy had stonewalled for years.

But he wouldn't do it and wouldn't ask his justice department to pursue any of it either.

[Zhade]

137. He sure did, yet so many here can't accept those facts.

Say, did I mention I wish Kerry was running now?

[Jennicut]

10. I can't resist this one. I'm usually against being negative but....

The Clintons hleped contribute to Al Gore's loss in 2000. Bill Clinton faced impeachment and narrowly escaped being thrown to the wolves if not for Al Gore and others standing behind him. In 2000, instead of being able to run on the economy or deficit Gore was forced to run away from Clinton. Then people after the election had the audacity to blame Gore for not using Clinton more! Bush got his 4 years (and the 4 more). Nice try. Nice "proven" leadership. Dynasty was planned all along since 1992 and if this tight race with Obama messes up Hill and Bill's plans than so be it.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

20. Al Gore didn't lose in 2000 nt

[ananda]

11. On social issues, Clinton rules AFAIAC.

On global economic and foreign policy issues,
I'm not so sure.

Free trade sucks.

[karlrschneider]

12. Hillary has a chance of winning the general election. Obama has zero chance.

It's just that simple.

[jeffrey_X]

36. You really have no idea what is going on, do you?

I mean have you actually noticed the amount of votes that Obama is attracting? Young, independent, never been interested in politics before....need I go on? Obama gets all of these votes for the general election. Hillary not so much. Hillary is only going to embolden the republican party.

Best of luck.

[karlrschneider]

47. You are living in a dream world. Some of you guys think DU is a microcosm of America.

It isn't even representative of the Democratic party! Public declarations of support don't mean shit in the voting booth.
All I have to say is don't come crying to me when McCain is inaugurated if Obama gets the nomination. And don't DARE accuse me of racism here as some assholes have done...I am simply pointing it out.

[RaleighNCDUer]

109. Obama might lose against McCain.

Hillary is guaranteed to lose against McCain.

Only Hillary will rouse out the religious right to back a candidate they don't like. If Obama is nominated, they'll just stay home.

You have NO idea of the level of antipathy toward Hillary there is in middle-America.

[karlrschneider]

122. Yeah, I guess Oklahoma is a LONG fucking way from "middle America"

Hillary won handily here and I have personally not met one single person who prefers Obama to her. Not one.

[Nedsdag]

53. Really?

So this is what you're using to make you prediction:



While you're at it, will I win a million dollars?

[karlrschneider]

102. No, I am simply telling you that anybody who thinks America will elect a black man president

is as crazy as Huckabee.

[RaleighNCDUer]

113. Just like no black man could ever be elected governor in Dixie.

Except, well, it happened.

THAT IS A RACIST ASSUMPTION.

[karlrschneider]

115. Don't come crying to me when the GOP wins 50 states.

And don't speak to me before then either. I am not a racist. So fuck you.

[jeffrey_X]

120. Any time you have to say that you are not racist...

well you know the story.

And LOFL at the GOP winning all 50 states.

[karlrschneider]

121. A few goddamned assholes around have called me a racist. That is why I said it.

EOFM

[surfermaw]

81. You are right, republicans laughing in the streets at the opportunity to run against Obama

with little experience.

[liberalnurse]

14. I'm with the Experience Rules Group!

Let Big Dog take the young VP Prince-Obama and school him to the ways of the Political Universe for 8-years while the Queen cleans up Jr's America mess. Then, the young Prince will be prepared to reign for his 8 as the Greatest President since Lincoln with Howard Dean credited as the King Maker.,

[jeffrey_X]

People also voted for Bush over Kerry because of "experience."

weak

[rodeodance]

60. ???

[Nedsdag]

58. Please.

The Big Dog won't let the young VP Prince in the room let alone school him.

He's the de facto vice president. Anyone who would accept a nod to be her running mate needs to have his or her head examined.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

15. Where shall I bring it?

You have your opinion, splashed all over these pages. I have my opinion too. I'm only missing one key element: please explain why I should give a fuck what you think about this or anything else? I can already see that your judgment is lacking, if not completely missing, based on your posts. Why on earth would I be interested in adhering to your opinion or assigning it any importance?

Thank you.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

24. Consider the question

not the author. Question being what difference does it make whether the leader is "related to" anyone else when there is a job needs doing.

[boricua79]

16. fell for the "vetted and tested" mantra, huh?

If you really think about it, the Clinton years weren't really that swell either. It's just they look great in comparison to Bush.

And Hillary didn't lead anything. her husband did.

[rodeodance]

65. Sure trumps the illusive HOPE AND UNITY MANTRA!

[boricua79]

128. now it doesn't

have you REALLY been inspired to go out and vote for some DLC-elitist who claims that she's been vetted and tested.

Yeah...that gets me motivated to go the polls EVERYDAY! :sarcasm:

[Avalux]

18. Hillary is not a proven leader. Being married to a former president doesn't count.

Unless the reason you're voting for her is because Bill will be in the WH again. I'm sure lot of people are voting for her for that reason.

[Skwmom]

21. Well Clinton sure played her part in screwing this country.

For example, NAFTA and the Iraq War.

[snooper2]

23. I thought you stated in another post the Clinton(s) are not running

Just Hillary...

Is this the next Penn move? Bill is, no he's not, well, maybe, yeah he's running to, well no, just her, but....

[Proud2BAmurkin]

28. No, never stated or believed that

[woodsprite]

26. Which is exactly why I wanted Biden as the 08 Dem Pres candidate! n/t

[oasis]

27. But..but..Obama is sooooo inspiring, His mighty word will make the national debt go bye bye.

:loveya:

[WillyT]

29. I Remember Dynasty... No Thanks !!!

:evilgrin:

[LTR]

32. Some may say that establishment DLC Dems like Hillary are part of the problem

After all, she did give the go-ahead for invading Iraq.

Phony corporate suck-up politicians are part of the problem. To me, Obama seems like the only candidate who actually has a chance of cleaning up the mess.

[sam sarrha]

34. this is what i dont like about obama, ..among others >>Link>>

http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Feb2007/street0207.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/obamas-faustian-bargain-_b_82863.html

all i have ever heard is pie in the sky sermons and deception.. he didn't vote against the resolution Bu$h later spun into a reason to invade Iraq, cause 'HE COULDNT'... he couldn't even vote Present cause he wasn't EVEN THERE.!!!

[Raffi Ella]

37. agreed.

Thanks for that first read,hadn't seen it.

and here's another compelling argument for Hillary Clintons Nomination from Joe Wilson:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-wilson/the-real-hillary-i-know-_b_77878.html

[rodeodance]

70. Obama had another one of those type speeches last night --add it your list and thanks

[BlackVelvet04]

40. Age and treachery trump youth and enthusiasm. n/t

[rodeodance]

71. Ha--I knew that you without looking:-)

[BlackVelvet04]

98. LOL...

:hi: How are you today?

[Nedsdag]

41. In other words,

you want to keep down a new generation of voters and incoming independents and Republicans because you want ONE family running a political party for two decades?

They might as well change the name from the Democratic Party to the Clinton Party. How banana republic.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

43. No I don't want "one family" I just don't care who the elected leaders are related to

Not an issue.

[Nedsdag]

61. It IS an issue.

Two families running the White House for nearly 28 years? No thank you.

If I wanted to live under a junta, I'll move to South or Central America.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

64. Explain why it "is an issue" that American voters are choosing people with the same name.

They aren't being coerced.

[karlrschneider]

123. That's preffy funny...you obviously have no fucking idea what "junta" means.

:eyes:

[JTFrog]

42. Yeah! Jeb for Prez!!!! Long live the Dynasty!!!! n/t

[Proud2BAmurkin]

45. Jeb has every right to put himself out there to the electorate, if he's an American.

and voters have the right to vote for him. No problem.

[JTFrog]

48. Mentality like that will keep this country fucked, but I bet you already know that.

No problem my ass.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

50. Give me a rational reason why a name should eliminate any American from serving

[JTFrog]

55. Give me a rational reason why we should have dynasty or a monarchy. Do you know anything about how

or why our country was formed.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

56. Our country wasn't formed on eliminating people with the same name. ADAMS

[JTFrog]

59. Your ignorance is showing. Not for the first time, I'm sure. n/t

[Proud2BAmurkin]

62. Again, convince me a "name" matters when American voters are electing their leaders.

[JTFrog]

84. JFC, read a book about the American Revolutionary War.

We started a whole fucking war to overthrow Royalist rule and create an independent nation where we didn't have to deal with dynasties and empires. And we won. And yet you spew crap about "bring on the dynasty"???? Take us back a few centuries why don't ya. That is fucked up.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

89. The Revolution was about names not determining rights.

[JTFrog]

119. You are absolutely right and therefore I submit to our new Overlords. Carry on.

I guess that's the only acceptable answer here.

[Nimrod2005]

44. This is sooooo stupid.....nt

[bunnies]

49. OK.. so if my ballot says "the Clintons" Ill fill in that circle.

deal?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

52. It's not going to say that but it will mean that.

[rodeodance]

85. Smart move

[slackmaster]

51. Nothing is fucked, dude

[Proud2BAmurkin]

54. lol best movie ever

[rodeodance]

57. BRAVO!

[JackORoses]

63. the Clintons are part of the reason it is as fucked as it is.

Bill's Impeachment Extravaganza cost us the 2000 Election. No bones about it.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

66. The supreme court cost the 2000 election. The Democrats won because of a successful presidency

[JackORoses]

75. It wouldn't have gone to the Supreme Court if Bill hadn't been impeached.

Al would have won handily.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

80. The rolling over to PUKES and weakness from some of you Obamaniacs

is amazing

[JackORoses]

87. so, your position is that Bill's Impeachment had no impact on the Election of 2000?

That is what is amazing.

How many Presidents have been impeached?
It's not an everyday occurence.

Granted, it was trumped up, but it did have an effect on the American People and their view of the Democratic Party.

Al Gore had to practically hide from Bill during the election.
Whereas, if Bill hadn't messed around, Al would have had a well-liked sitting President campaigning for him.

It made a big difference whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

90. Democrats won the 2000 election. nt

[JackORoses]

93. Al would have won by much more if not for Bill's snafu

The closeness of the race is what allowed the Repukes to steal it.

This would not have been an issue if Al hadn't had a huge Albatross thrown around his neck by Bill.

[RaleighNCDUer]

131. By 500 fucking votes.

After 8 years of prosperity and relative peace.

Gore should have won by 20%. It should not have been anywhere close enough to steal.

The Clintons pissed off the religious right, pissed off the progressive left, everybody, in fact, except the corporatists and neocons who had their own candidate, and we were left with just a chunk of the squishy middle.

Hillary's base.

[RaleighNCDUer]

112. Who covered up BCCI and Iran/Contra?

Who didn't investigate CIA drugrunning?

Who decided that the way to beat republicans was to steal their ideas?

Who built a career on rolling over?

[TornadoTN]

67. Monarchy, here we come!

As long as the Bushes and the Clintons keep pumping out kids, we could just turn this thing into a monarchy and we loyal serfs can bow to kiss the ring!

Great idea!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

73. Nobody's talking about eliminating our democracy. That's a dumb statement.

[TornadoTN]

78. Dumb? So having two families control our nations future for 20+ years isn't?

It's pretty damn close if it isn't

[Proud2BAmurkin]

83. It's a marginal issue if an issue at all. You would prefer certain citizens be prevented due to name

?

[TornadoTN]

86. That's a bit too simplistic and spin on what I said

But we'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue. I, for one, don't support the Clinton's for a variety of reasons. I also believe it's time to move away from the Bush/Clinton ideology and onto another direction. Not necessarily a slam on a particular family, but Hillary and Bill are very similar in their positions and I want another leadership style.

[Little Star]

94. Hear, Hear!!!.............

Was listening to the radio on my way home and someone said we don't need Bambi-oma to fight the Repugs! I totally agreed.

[corkhead]

95. Say hello to my little friend

it's name is "IGNORE":hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

99. Right! Democracy be damned!

ONLY FASCISTS INSIST ON HAVING A LEADER TO GUIDE THEM.

I DON'T NEED NO DAMN HERO ON A WHITE HORSE.

The Clintons GAVE us BushCo, by refusing to investigate BCCI and Iran/Contra.

They are not the solution -- they are the PROBLEM.

[JackRiddler]

101. This argument was used for Papa Bush, even for the son (because of his crew).

[ProSense]

106. Proven leaders who spent the 1990s bogged down by the GOP, triangulating, and now

are being hobbled.

[Sequoia]

111. Abraham Lincoln wasn't a proven leader, so there!

[RLS21]

114. Presidency Wasn't Complicated During Lincoln's Time Era

The job is now rather complex and requires considerable experience
and intelligence.

I've never voted for a Republican for President, but would vote for McCain over Obama because of the experience factor.

[Sequoia]

126. Oh look!! A NEWBIE !! Welcome.

Like Bush, he partied hard in (college)the Naval Academy. At least he went to Vietnam but I won't vote for him.

[Danger Mouse]

116. And more money for Proud's bank account.

:hi:

[Bread and Circus]

117. Simple Question: What has Hillary Clinton lead?

A: nothing (unless you count her 1993 health care debacle that she totally and utterly fucked up).

[themaguffin]

118. you want to hand the White House to McCain then?

[TheDonkey]

124. Dynasty??? MMMmmm this sounds great for Democracy. We have term limits for a REASON

[McHatin]

125. Clinton is proven alright

Proven to uphold the status quo and do shit. Meet the new boss...

[CTLawGuy]

130. "proven leader"

who voted for the war and the Patriot Act, and supported DOMA...

I'll pass.

[VotesForWomen]

133. correct; i just don't have a lot of confidence in obama. nt

[Zhade]

134. Sure, if by experience you mean experienced in helping to fuck it up.

If Clinton wins, I can't WAIT to point out how wrong you people are about things changing... since it'll be all I can look forward to out of her administration.

[Recursion]

135. Nothing is more naive than doing the same thing...

...and expecting different results.

[eridani]

138. Great. More outsourcing and more war. No thanks n/t