Obama Directly Attacks Bill's Presidency, Blames It For Massive Dem Losses

[russian33]

In what may be Obama's most direct and aggressive criticism of Bill Clinton's presidency yet, the Obama campaign dropped a new mailer just before Super Tuesday that blasts "the Clintons" for wreaking massive losses on the Democratic party throughout the 1990s.

"8 years of the Clintons, major losses for Democrats across the nation," reads the mailer, which goes on to list the post-1992 losses suffered by Dems among governors, Senators and members of the House of Representatives. The mailer was forwarded to us by a political operative who told us it was sent to Alaska, though it was probably sent elsewhere, too.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/obama_directly_attacks_bills_p.php


smell that 'hope and change', and uniting across party lines....beautiful, ain't it?

[yardwork]

1. This is what I really don't like about Obama.

He might as well be a Republican when he acts like this. This is b.s.

[ananda]

8. It worries me too..

.. Obama's appealing to Reeps and using
Reep tactics.

At least he'll be better than Bush.

Of course, pondscum would be better than Bush,
with apologies to all pondscum for the
comparison.

[KittyWampus]

12. #1. It was Clintons' crony McAuliffe in the DNC that did NOTHING about Election Fraud

#2. it was the Clinton/Carville strategy to forget running national campaigns and allow the Democratic party to wither (thus further enabling Election Theft) in many states
#3. ignored Grassroots utterly while TOTALLY becoming the more socially liberal set of the corporate elite.
#4. did his utmost to keep Howard Dean from getting the chair.

[yardwork]

40. What does that have to do with the OP?

[KittyWampus]

83. Clinton years deserve an HONEST assessment regarding his influence on our party and our country

[yardwork]

98. All right, let's make an honest assessment, then.

Not a collection of right-wing talking points.

[Armstead]

148. My honest asessment -- A mile wide and an inch deep

I believe Bill Clinton revived the party on a superficial level by winning the presidency.

However, he did it on a basis that was a mile wide and an inch deep. he polarized Democrats between "Cerntrists" and "Liberals/Progressives" during his term, rather than actually creating a sysnthesis. By using the centrist strategy of kowtowing to Wall St. and Big Business, while ignoring and trying to marginalize liberals and progressives, Clinton aided the GOP and allowed them to take the lead with their wedge issues and politics of personal destruction.

Clinton aligned himself and the Democratic Establishment against the real issues of the poor and working middle class, and enable the GOP to hold onto and attract popular support with their brand of phony populism.

In the 90's, Clinton lucked out, because the emergence of new technologies fueled a bubble that created the illusion of broad based prosperity. However he did not use that opportunity to lead the public towards adapting liberal policies that could use this prosperity in meaningful ways.

Instead, Clinton presided over a period in which all of the basic tenants of Republican CONservatism werre allowed to run rampant. And Clintonism was also the basis for the complete failure (and often refusal) of Democrats to challenge Bush and the GOP Congress in the 00s.

[BootinUp]

196. You need to read the DNC report about their investigation

its on their website, the 2004,2005 report. Your charge is nothing but a netroots Clinton hating fantasy. Come back with some facts.

[depakid]

203. "nothing but a netroots Clinton hating fantasy" Nope- it's hard cold reality

I lived through it- and was active in the trenches at the time, as was Paul Rogat Loeb.

Here are his observations:

Hillary and the Politics of Disappointment

When Democrats worry about Hillary Clinton’s electability, they focus on her reenergizing a depressed Republican base while demoralizing core Democratic activists, particularly those outraged about the war, and consequently losing the election. A November 26 Zogby poll, for instance, now shows her trailing the major Republican candidates, while Edwards and Obama defeat them. But there’s a further danger if Hillary’s nominated–that she will win but then split the Democratic Party.

We forget that this happened with her husband Bill, because compared to Bush, he’s looking awfully good. Much of Hillary’s support may be nostalgia for when America’s president seemed to engage reality instead of disdaining it. But remember that over the course of Clinton’s presidency, the Democrats lost 6 Senate seats, 46 Congressional seats, and 9 governorships. This political bleeding began when Monica Lewinsky was still an Oregon college senior. Given Hillary’s protracted support of the Iraq war, her embrace of neoconservative rhetoric on Iran, and her coziness with powerful corporate interests, she could create a similar backlash once in office, dividing and depressing the Democratic base and reversing the party’s newfound momentum.

............

No place saw a more dramatic political shift than my home state of Washington. In November 1992, Democratic activists volunteered by the thousands, hoping to end the Reagan-Bush era. On Election Day, I joined five other volunteers to help get out the vote in a swing district 20 miles south of Seattle. Volunteers had a similar presence in every major Democratic or competitive district in the state. The effort helped Clinton to carry the state and Democrats to capture eight out of nine House seats.

But by 1994 grass-roots Democratic campaigners mostly stayed home, disgruntled. In Washington State, there were barely enough people to distribute literature and make phone calls in Seattle’s most liberal neighborhoods, let alone in swing suburban districts. Republicans won seven of our nine congressional races, and reelected a Senator known
for baiting environmentalists.

The same was true nationwide. I spent that campaign season traveling to promote a book on campus activism, staying with friends long involved with progressive causes. Everywhere I went, critical races would go to the Republicans by the narrowest of margins. Yet my friends and their friends seemed strangely detached, so disgusted with Democratic politics that they no longer wanted anything to do with it. Surveys found that had voters who stayed home voted, they would have reversed the election outcome. Even a modest volunteer effort might have prevented the Republican sweep.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/27/5460/

[russian33]

13. this is not going to fly well with the democratic base

imho

[UALRBSofL]

52. Talk about mud slinging

This just might dirty before it's over.

[Capn Sunshine]

70. why? Because it's true?

Only a fool would pretend that Clinton's presidency didn't lead to Neocon rule.

Have you forgotten the Gingrich revolution? Where we lost congress for the first time in 28 years?

It would seem so.

[JDPriestly]

101. Correct.

Thc Clintons had no response to Gingrichism because they agreed with a lot of what Gingrich was saying. But then Obama does too.

Edwards was the only truly Democratic candidate, but unfortunately a lot of fools didn't appreciate him.

[yardwork]

103. Absolute bullshit! Bill Clinton agreed with Newt Gingrich??

What planet were you on when the Reagan Revolution rolled through? When the Christian right took up arms against the Constitution? Bill Clinton got elected despite this corporate-fueled tidal wave. Bill Clinton's eight years as president were a respite from it.

I can't believe that you know so little about recent American history.

[Recursion]

182. Ah, that's why Clinton vetoed welfare reform...

...and said "The era of big government will continue"?

That's why Clinton didn't fall for Gingrich's Assault Weapons Ban trick? (Guess who shepherded that out of committee? Hint: he did it because he knew it would make him speaker 1 year later)

That's why Clinton vetoed the DOMA and said "I will not let cheap political tricks stop me from carrying out my duty to ensure equal protection before the law"?

I didn't think the reckoning on the failures of Clinton's presidency would come so soon, but frankly, I'm glad Obama is doing this.

[JDPriestly]

186. A respite?

How about NAFTA? -- which has benefited only the mega-corporations which now virtually dominate the world.
How about Clinton's "welfare to work" reform? which is about to become a joke as it becomes more and more difficult for the welfare recipients to find jobs when it is their time to move to work.
How about the environment? -- for which Clinton failed to advocate for in any effective way. Clinton oversaw the rise of the era of the SUV.
How about health care? -- the Clintons had a good plan, but again, their advocacy for it was weak. They couldn't get the American people behind them to push the plan through.

One of the things a president has to do is to bring with him a majority of his party in Congress. Clinton could not do that. He was a popular president, but his coattails did not stretch out far enough to bring with him a Democratic Congress. Our hold on the Congress is tenuous right now. We need a real Democrat to excite Democratic voters and get our supporters to the polls -- not some Republican-lite.

I'm still supporting Edwards. I don't care who appears to be the frontrunner right now. Edwards is the true Democrat. It's thanks to his ideas and platform that there is so much interest in the Democratic Party right not. The other two have adopted Edwards emphasis and to some extent even his stances on the environment, health care, trade and all the most important issues. It's really sad that the voters in our party did not go for the gold and nominate Edwards.

[yardwork]

104. Go learn some history. Were you alive in 1980?

[surfermaw]

93. What would you expect from some one in my opinion bought and paid for by the republican party

[VotesForWomen]

163. true. can it it be long before he's taking cash directly from the GOP? nt

[surfermaw]

114. You shouldn't in my opinion he is bought and paid for by republicans

With all right wing stations and that includes CNN giving him hundred of million dollars of free advertisement. I wonder how many times Wolf Blitzer at CNN has said the name Obama, some of you young guy's start counting how many times reporters mention the name Obama in their news reports, especially Wolf Blitzer

[Dawgs]

120. What, him speaking the truth?

[jacksonian]

157. it ain't the truth

America was richest, most peaceful large nation in the history of the world.

Not good enough for Obama, who says it was all shit. BS, something had to be good about it.

[Radical Activist]

134. Clinton killed the party by being too Republican.

Obama is the one making a liberal argument.

[Texas_Kat]

165. Then how come he's depending on Repubs and Independants to win the primaries?

[Radical Activist]

Having broad appeal beyond the base is how elections are won.

White people over 60 can't win the election for us. Obama has wide support within the party and there's no reason for anyone to apologize for him bringing new people into the party.

[Texas_Kat]

192. Utah, Idaho, North Dakota and Alaska won't win it either

If we can recapture the Hispanic vote for the Dems (via Clinton) we'll win in November. It's really that simple.

[Radical Activist]

205. What states will that get us

that don't already vote Democratic? I can't see it turning Texas. We already win CA. Arizona will go with McCain.

Are there enough Hispanic voters in Nevada or New Mexico? Will it make up for the people who don't like her and the black voters who decide to stay home?

[ursi]

135. gee, do you people expect those of us who were around in 1999-2000 and paying attention to pretend

that didn't happen? Give me a break. Obviously, the truth hurts.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

2. Um - he's got a point

just sayin'

[SoFlaJet]

10. lost the congress

didn't he? Oh wait that wasn't HIS fault it was the MSM's fault-or perhaps some musicians or actors? we ALL know that nothing is ever THEIR fault CStheT

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

18. Um no but - how about something different than Bush or Clinton?

The happiest times of my life were under Clinton's presidency but then everything collapsed. I want something new.

[SoFlaJet]

45. I wanted Edwards

but after I read something in The Huff Post a week before the Fla Primary saying they didn't expect to win any primaries my wife and I switched our support and votes over to Obama

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

110. nice

Me and my wife too :thumbsup:

[SoFlaJet]

118. So I guess we NOW know

after last night where the majority of Edwards supporters went Chavez. Which answers the questions being posed in threads here after he dropped out...

[OzarkDem]

50. Blame the GOP - remember Jim Wright?

They began implementing their strategy to win back Congress when Reagan and Bush were in office. They built alliances with right wing hate radio, the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons, then sent their attack dogs in Congress after faux scandals to run Dems out of leadership.

Remember when Newt Gingrich went after House leader Jim Wright? By the time Newt, the media and hate radio got through with him, they had managed to throw him out of office. For what? For writing a book and selling it. The big scandal? Some of the copies were sold to lobbyists and campaign contributors. That was it.

The sad part is, Obama knows the history of the GOP takeover of Congress (if he doesn't he shouldn't be running for office). To use GOP talking points this way and weaken his own party is beyond the pale. The guy is pure scum.

[northzax]

97. and the only people to fight back

were the Clintons. But Obama doesn't want to fight, he wants to 'work together' which is great, except you can't work with people looking to fight. you can't make nice with people looking to put a shiv in your ribs, unless you have an awful big stick.

[wyldwolf]

117. no, he didn't lose the Congress.

1. GOP gerrymandering in the South.
2. A large number of Dem retirements in red areas or areas trending red.
3. The first organized mobilization of the Christian right.
4. Popular resentment of established DC power (Democrats had run thing for most of 40 years)
5. Congressional corruption laid at Democrat's feet (rubbergate, for example.)
6. Political realignment along geographical lines.

[Fresh_Start]

21. democratic party affiliation

http://people-press.org/commentary/display.php3?AnalysisID=97

This shows that democratic identification increased during Clintons terms

[nolabels]

A lot of people have been saying this same thing for the last 13 to 14 years

Those that have been pointing it out were were brushed off as un-loyal or worse. Most would probably like big coat tails and that is something Bill and side kick Hillary never delivered. There is no refuting this point, but there will be lots of name-calling after it is pointed out.

Btw, i also doubt that this mud slinging is even coming from the candidates campaign but i am glad some others are willing to point it out

[Cameron27]

3. I smell something,

but it's not hope and change.

[islandmkl]

6. it's the DLC

[rodeodance]

91. stay focused on the IP.

[islandmkl]

126. I guess BC had nothing to do

with the DLC getting established as the power structure it is in the party today>

[Cameron27]

141. So did Al Gore

but it's Obama who's pulling his talking points out of the DLC handbook now.

[rinsd]

4. Did they talk about net gains for Dems in Congress for the next 3 straight elections?

Or the Congressional scandals that directly affected the careers of a score of Democrats?

[robbedvoter]

39. Or that, since 1988 GOP-ers didn't actually WIN any national election?

No one talks about that. Steal in 2000, steal in 2004, loses before that

[katty]

5. hissy fit, blaming others...not a mature reaction

[thereismore]

7. he's right. nt

[ProSense]

9. Here:

Ironically, Bill Clinton’s protection of the Reagan-Bush administrations didn’t protect him. Clinton saw his prized domestic agenda, including Hillary Clinton’s health care reform, defeated; his party lose control of Congress in 1994; the House vote to impeach him; and his Vice President, Al Gore, have the 2000 election stolen from him.

[russian33]

19. oh, so Gore's election theft is also Clinton's fault?

geez, this starts sounding more and more like repuke talking points...anything, blame it on Bill

[Cameron27]

37. Everything is Bill's fault,

it's called scapegoating, and whether it's done for Gore or Kerry, it stinks.

[robbedvoter]

142. Mighty Clenis dione it.

[OzarkDem]

56. It is Repuke talking points

who do you think is funding and running Obama's campaign? Why else would a Democrat get such fawning coverage from the news media?

[ProSense]

76. Do you deny that Dems were turned off by Clinton's impeachment and his

and triagulating?

[russian33]

128. remind me again of Bill's approval rating when he left the office?

[ProSense]

177. Bush had a 55% approval rating near the end of his first term. Point? n/t

[DiamondJay]

200. notice how that was because he was reelected

and once people realized they had voted for someone, they wanted to justify it by liking him. He DID win the popular vote, he did not steal it. Face it, we ran a bad candidate

[foxer]

146. Don't recall hearing a peep out of them

[texanshatingbush]

67. Stop....right now...read John Dean's Conservatives without Conscience

He makes a pretty convincing argument that the wingnut/fundy/authoritianchristian takeover started building in 1979, gaining ground stealthily until bursting forth in the '94 Democratic loss of Congress, and the subsequent trashing of the Constitution by the authoritarian social dominators who were running the Republican juggernaut.

I don't think anyone can fairly blame Bill Clinton alone for all this.

Get a sense of History, people!! Remember what Mark Twain said: History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. We gotta figure out the rhyme so that we can prepare for the attack and counterattacks of The Ones Who Hate Liberty, Truth, Justice, and The American Way--'cause they're already in America.

[TornadoTN]

78. Ture, but some of it can be attributed to him

He gave the GOP plenty of ammunition for their smear/war machine with his (private) antics that were used against him. Right or wrong, it was packaged up and sold to the lowest common denominator. Remember - RESTORE INTEGRITY, HONESTY AND DIGNITY TO THE WHITE HOUSE? Direct result.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

149. It's so sad ... these people are so blinded by candidate...

partisanship they can't even be reasoned with to evaluate real facts. They have their eyes squeezed shut, their fingers jammed in their ears, and are as ugly and close-minded as any Freepers ever were about who Bill and Hillary Clinton are, and what they have done and tried to do, against the odds.

I'm beginning to recognize people here who are carbon copies of Bush bots ... and it scares the hell out of me!!

[ProSense]

181. Clinton accelerated it, including giving the Reagan/Bush crowd a free pass n/t

[DJ13]

11. You dont like the truth?

No supposedly "popular" President in the modern era ever had so many of his own party lose reelection as Bill had in his two terms. (Outside of W, but thats not saying much)

You want to know WHY so many long time Democrats have endorsed Obama, look no further.

[Fredda Weinberg]

20. Yeah, raising taxes on the rich was a bitch, but saved a generation or

two. But we forget so quickly ... yes, we paid a political price - and if Obama doesn't get it, well, that just explain why I can't respect him.

[joshcryer]

29. Basically Clinton did everything the GOP didn't want.

And it hurt him badly.

[John Q. Citizen]

47. Yeah, the Repos hated NAFTA, When he signed it they all went after him for it.

Same with kicking families off welfare and passing the Telecommunications act.

They screamed bloody murder about kicking poor people, deregulation, privatization.

[Fredda Weinberg]

85. Welfare families got deadlines ... which the public supports. And I

disagree strongly on the telecommunications act, but understood why Clinton did it. Part of Gore inventing the Internet, though some of us were already working on it ... but there were real accomplishments, done for the right reasons.

[John Q. Citizen]

121. All of his accomplishments were Republican ideas. Balaced budget. I think that was a good idea by

the way, and he was able to implement it. He desreves credit for the implementation, but not for the idea.

NAFTA, the deregulation of the telecommunications act that has led to 5 major corporations owning about 90% of the mass media.

Can you name any of the major acomplishments I've missed?

[Fredda Weinberg]

154. Not while I'm waiting for test results ... but the point was the party took

the hit for the balanced budget. We squandered it, but it is the residual hope that leaves me interested in seeing what HRC does when she's in front of the curtain.

[DiamondJay]

164. but how about the tax hike on the rich? Brady/AWB?

there was more to bill clinton's first two years in office which pissed off Repos. nafta wasn't his only thing you know.

[OzarkDem]

22. No, don't like lies

[John Q. Citizen]

77. Where is the lie? You just don't like inconvenient truth. We lost ground in governorships,

in the Senate and in the house during the Clinton years.

Prove that is incorrect.

I know you can come up with excuses for why that happened, but you can't prove that is incorrect.

[Onlooker]

151. The Democrats lost because they wouldn't stand with Clinton

Clinton had a hell of time with the Democratic Party because he brought in outsiders. Clinton was a real outsider candidate, and he only started to make progress when he brought in insiders who knew how to deal with the Congress. Clinton did not lose the Congress. The Democrat Congress was dreadfully incompetent, sort of like it is now.

[displacedtexan]

14. Add that to his demand for committed super delegates to vote for him...

... and it doesn't sound like "hope and change" to me anymore, either.

LINK

[VenusRising]

51. That is so disingenuous.

He did not demand anything.

Read your link again. He's talking about the people having power over the party and the nomination instead of the party and super delegates overriding the decision of the primary voters.



Separately, at the presser, Obama also made some interesting comments about his route to the nomination, saying that he'll amass a higher total of pledged delegates as a way of putting pressure on committed super-delegates to honor the Democratic process, forgo back-room politics, and back the candidate with the most public support.

"If this contest comes down to super-delegates, I think we're going to be able to say that we have more pledged delegates — meaning that the Democratic voters have spoken," Obama said. "And I think that those SD's who are elected officials, party insiders, would have to think long and hard about how they approach the nomination when the people they claim to represent have said, `Obama's our guy.'"

[Kittycat]

15. It's true.

Lost the congress, then set us up for failure with Gore. Yes on paper gore won, but the margins weren't enough to stop the bus from running over democracy. If not for people being sick of the scandals and such - we would have had President Gore. The SCOTUS would never have had a chance to get involved.

[MADem]

16. Oooooh, that might blow back on him AFTER the day....

Gotta watch that kind of attack, because that is a TOUGH bell to unring. That's beyond policy, that's personal.

I wonder who is advising him? That thing has a very "GOP" quality to it--and that's not meant to be taken in a good way.

I guess, if Clinton does pull this election off, that Barack Obama will remain the Junior Senator From Illinois. That VP consolation prize and control of the party in eight years is starting to look like a ship leaving the dock with this kind of crap.

Bill Richardson is rolling out the new facial hair to give America an opportunity to get used to a VP with a beard???

[UALRBSofL]

24. This could backfire on Obama

Considering Clinton's popularity rating is 68% and many will see it an attack on a president they liked when he was in office.

[KittyWampus]

26. why would Obama WANT to be VP to Hillary? As a Senator, he'd have more power than being

Hillary's attempt to generate honest enthusiasm for her candidacy.

[MADem]

69. Because eight years goes by in the BLINK OF AN EYE!!!

And he'd be a young, vigorous man who would have been able to 'craft his own job'--doing the things that put him front and center on the world stage, doing things that he does WELL and SUCCESSFULLY, picking and choosing projects that HE cares about in order to enhance his political and public profile.

And as VP, he would be HEIR. All he would have to do is stay "high viz," present himself in a compassionate, involved light championing POPULAR issues for eight years, and it would be his to lose. Assuming the country gets back on track (and it would--our reputation in the world would be coming back up, and it would be on a "getting better still" trajectory after two terms) he'd have it in the bag.

Assume Clinton does win and she selects Bill Richardson as her Number Two. You actually think that Vice President RICHARDSON is gonna sit on his ass for eight years? A guy with HIS resume? He's gonna be all over the world, presenting himself as a CHAMPION of Truth, Justice, Hostage Negotiation, Arms Negotiation, Any Kind of Negotiation, and The American Way. His profile will be HIGH, and POSITIVE. HE will be heir. The job will be HIS to lose.

Waiting eight years is one thing. Waiting SIXTEEN is another.

[in_cog_ni_to]

38. Yep. Barack just blew VP Barack Obama. What a fool.

and an ass.

[SOS]

106. Not necessarily

Johnson slammed the hell out of Kennedy in the 1960 primaries.
Here's a Johnson quote from the primary race on JFK:

“He never said a word of importance in the Senate, and he never did a thing.”

At this level of politics there are no personal insults. They will do whatever is necessary.
If Clinton wins the nomination, it would be political suicide to oust Obama.

Like JFK and LBJ in 1960, once the dust settles, they'll do what they have to.

[Straight Shooter]

147. “He never said a word of importance in the Senate, and he never did a thing.”

Oooh, can we use that as a quote against Barack, since they're comparing him to JFK? :)

[SOS]

206. Sure

Please atttribute to LBJ, Spring 1960. :)

[Avalux]

17. He's right. Does no one remember the backlash after Clinton's impeachment?

I know it's easy to forget, but it took a long time to heal that wound and get our party moving forward again.

[OzarkDem]

27. So Obama thinks its a good idea to reopen old wounds?

Just when I think he's done all he can to make me dislike him, Obama always comes up with something new.

Its becoming very obvious that Obama is getting more than his money and health care policy from the GOP, but also his political strategy.

[Cameron27]

43. It seems as though Obama's willing to poison the well

for a lot of things, and it doesn't seem to matter to him that this could hurt us in the GE.

[OzarkDem]

80. Win at all costs

and I don't think its his strategy. Who is really running his campaign?

[Cameron27]

100. It is win at all costs,

and I'd like to know what's behind all of it myself. When I hear someone talk about the "issues that prevent Democrats from being elected" and "the Democrats' Disease," and "the excesses of the 60's and 70's," alarm bells go off.

[John Q. Citizen]

55. It's so much better to lie to ourselves and pretend that we gained seats in congress.

[OzarkDem]

74. Lie to ourselves? LMAO!

Truth was never the issue. The GOP put together a better strategy, had more influence and outdid the Dem party.

Now you expect us to self-destruct just because Obama says so? :rofl:

Obama needs to switch parties, I'm sure he'll be much happier there.

[John Q. Citizen]

111. It appears that Hill's campaign is faltering. I wouldn't call it self destructing yet, but

it's not meeting expectations on any level.

You do know who ran the DNC during the Clinton years, right?

You do know who signed the Telecommunications bill that completely transformed the media into the 5 major corporations it is today, right?

Lie to yourself if it makes you feel better. It's so much easier than expecting your heroes to take responsibility for blowing it on many levels during their administration.

[yardwork]

73. I remember a Democratic backlash after the impeachment!

Clinton's popularity soared. He left office with soaring popularity numbers.

I didn't agree with everything Clinton did - way to conservative for me - but Clinton was a helluva lot better than what we've had since, and for Obama to blame anything on Clinton is just rotten. Disloyal to his own party.

[Carrieyazel]

23. Bill Clinton kept the Repukes out of the White House for 8 crucial years.

Consider the unspeakable damage that a Repuke president would have wrought in the 90's.
Clinton's time in the White House set them back another decade, and they were about to catch up before we took away the Congress in 2006.

Stupid comments by Obama.

[KittyWampus]

32. And largely allowed the NeoCon powerstructure to solidify and strengthen. He did little to set them

back, see how fast things moved once Junior took office?

[yardwork]

81. They weren't in power for the eight years he was in the White House.

What more can you ask? Now you're blaming Bill Clinton for not making miracles.

[DiamondJay]

168. so they weren't doing it from 1980-1992

when Reagan was first elected after the moral majority and such got his senile ass to the white house? when he won reelection in the biggest landslide ever? When Bush routed Dukakis? THATS when the GOP strengthened. We were losing seats since nixon overall. The only reason dems kept to power in the house during Reagan/Bush were the boll weevils aka DINOS, who gave Reagan all he asked for. These were the same people who didn't let Clinton get hc reform in, and who switched parties in the mid nineties. But once 1994 came around, southern conservatives hated all the social things Clinton stood for, gays in the military, women and blacks in his WH, Hillary, their activities in the 60s being students hippies and non-soldiers, they voted Repubs, who had finally been able to pinpoint exactly why Reagan was elected in the first place

[DiamondJay]

166. NO! A Bush Sr. reelection woulda been MUCH better for Dems

followed by President J. Danforth Quayle from 1997-2005. (this is sarcasm). The loss of seats was bound to happen because of how US was going Repub from 1980 onward. Clinton's election was only a referendum on the economic effects, tho the social effects were lasting, and made Clinton controversial and lose in the 1994 election once they saw what Clinton socially stood for, eg. Gays in the military, anti-gun legislation, tax hikes on the rich.

[tishaLA]

25. He's right. n/t

[Dems Will Win]

57. Didn't Bill Clinton have to admit to the semen-stained blue dress

and didn't he have to settle out of court to Paula Jones for $850,000?

Or was I just imagining that nightmare?

The NY Post and the Daily News reported Bill had post-WH affairs with Lisa Belzberg and Belinda Stronach in 2002.

So why do I want the Democratic Party to go through that nightmare again and lose another election, remind me?

[Skwmom]

28. It's called the truth.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

33. Rezko, Jerimiah Wright and stock deals by Obama are true stories too!

GAWD is he dirty!

[John Q. Citizen]

30. How could he say that. Everyone knows the Dems gained governors, Senators,

and Members of the House while the Clintons were in office.

That's why bush had so much trouble getting his agenda passed, because we had record majorities in congress and in statehouses around the country.

It was Hillary's brillent "50 state strategy" that she implemented (with the help of James Carville) in 1993 that led to all those gains.

Some people will say any thing to get power.

[OHdem10]

31. Obama continues to allientate Blue Collar andMiddle Class

base.

If he thinks Clinton years are so bad, working people
wonder what he would do.

[russian33]

34. that's exactly what i thought

Clinton was re-elected, and left office with high approval rating...so this is slap in the face to all those who supported him back then, and still hold him in high regard for what he did to help them

[Maximus Invictus]

75. Sorry...

Double post.


From Europe with love...

[Maximus Invictus]

86. Bill Clinton was a great President!

Obama Shut The Fuc* Up! Shame on you boy!

Demagogue! :thumbsdown:

Yes We(ekend)! Regan We(ekend)! lol :rofl:


From Europe with love...

[K Gardner]

35. What part of that portion of the Clinton Legacy isn't true?

[AtomicKitten]

36. Gore declined using BC in the 2000 election, and there's a damn good reason why.

Obama hit the nail on the head.

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. Bill left office with a 65% APPROVAL rating. Most people in this country LOVE Bill Clinton. This is

a BIG mistake on Obama's part.

[AtomicKitten]

53. The Big Dawg has met his match.

The Clintons have their niche in the Dem Party, but it is evaporating as Americans get to know Obama. Don't believe me? Sit tight.

[in_cog_ni_to]

61. I beg to differ. The Obama just bit off more than he can chew and will pay dearly. GAME ON!

He wants a fight? He just got one.

[AtomicKitten]

64. Game on indeed, and I am smiling!!!

Gobama!

[TornadoTN]

87. With the Clinton's vindictive spirit, this could really help our campaign

Just trot Bill out there to start smearing Obama on a personal level and Hillary to throw out a few more tears and we could see another momentous swing in our direction.

We all know Bill has really helped Hillary out when it comes to dealing with Obama. I guess Obama should just learn his place and bow to the Royal family. :sarcasm:

[AtomicKitten]

109. I suspect we haven't seen the last of their magic bag of tricks.

[in_cog_ni_to]

129. I'm smiling bigger!!!

GO, Hillary! Obama is toast.

[robbedvoter]

46. Actually, not quite true - Bill campaigned for Gore in some states

many thought it should have been more - which is all academic - as Gore won anyway.
(P.S. Picking Joementum to inoculate him against "honor and dignitude" - not gore's best decision)

[nonconformist]

84. And most people seem to agree that was a huge mistake on Gore's part. nt

[AtomicKitten]

102. Gore won by over 500K votes and his demise was the 2000 Judicial Coup D'Etat.

[jacksonian]

159. and this is routinely mentioned as a Gore blunder -nt

[madfloridian]

41. Well, that famous saying of Hillary supporters...."it's just politics"

so don't fret. It is just politics after all.

Recommending.

[Emillereid]

42. Anyone with a memory knows this is true - one of the reasons for the

'success' of the 'contract on America' and the repuke takeover in '94 was that Clinton bungled a lot of things in his first two years - especially health care. Then we lost the Senate in '96.

Hillary is running on her husband's presidency and should be accountable. The 'good' times in the '90s were largely due to the tech bubble. Not everything was rosy - enforcement of the sanctions cost 1.5 million Iraqis their lives. Nafta cost many Americans and Mexicans their jobs. Ending welfare as we know cost many poor people their safety net. The telecommunication bill of 1996 cost us all as Big Media consolidated more. Repeal of Glass-Steagall probably led us into the banking mess we're in today. Eight years of constant scandal, triangulating, parsing, etc. was enough. We deserve a new direction and a new leader.

[robbedvoter]

49. The stimulus package - maligned by all - turned the economy around

Nice to see all GOP talking points here

[russian33]

62. it really is kind of scary to read some posts

i am noticing a change, but in such direction that i want to run away from it, fast!

[robbedvoter]

123. The Freepers attack McCain, here they attack Clinton - I am on the wrong board

it seems...

[in_cog_ni_to]

124. In case you haven't noticed, this board has been taken over by

Freepers from Free Republic. com. They brought ALL of their talking points with them too.:grr:

[russian33]

127. so it seems

i mean i'm reading some talking points that i haven't seen since my college days in the 90's
sad

[in_cog_ni_to]

58. And he did NOTHING good, right?

Bill Clinton's AWESOME record:

longest economic expansion in American history--a record 115 months of economic expansion
More than 22 million new jobs: more than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration
Highest home ownership in American history
Made the Federal government smaller (a feat matched only by Harry Truman; if you like small government, vote Democratic)
Lowest unemployment in 30 years: unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000; unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women was the lowest in more than 40 years
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
Lowest crime rate in 26 years.
Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
Higher incomes at all levels: after falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family's income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation; all income brackets experienced double-digit growth; the bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years: the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent in 1999--the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union: efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt: under Clinton, we were on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009; what a difference a stolen election makes...
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Lowest government spending in three decades
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
More families owned stock than ever before
Most New Jobs Ever Created Under a Single Administration: Republicans really chew the rug when you mention this one, so it's worth repeating constantly
Median Family Income Up $6,000 since 1993
Unemployment at Its Lowest Level in More than 30 Years
Highest Home ownership Rate on Record
7 Million Fewer Americans Living in Poverty
Largest Surplus Ever
Lower Federal Government Spending: after increasing under the previous two administrations, federal government spending as a share of the economy was cut from 22.2 percent in 1992 to 18 percent in 2000--the lowest level since 1966
The Most U.S. Exports Ever: between 1992 and 2000, U.S. exports of goods and services grew by 74 percent, or nearly $500 billion, to top $1 trillion for the first time
Lowest Inflation since the 1960s: inflation was at the lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration, averaging 2.5 percent, down from 4.6 percent during the previous administration
The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent
The poverty rate for single mothers was the lowest ever
The African American and elderly poverty rates dropped to their lowest level on record
The Hispanic poverty rate dropped to its lowest level since 1979
Lowest Poverty Rate for Single Mothers on Record: under President Clinton, the poverty rate for families with single mothers fell from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 35.7 percent in 1999, the lowest level on record
Smallest Welfare Rolls Since 1969: between January 1993 and September of 1999, the number of welfare recipients dropped by 7.5 billion (a 53 percent decline) to 6.6 million. In comparison, between 1981-1992, the number of welfare recipients increased by 2.5 million (a 22 percent increase) to 13.6 million people
Lowest Federal Income Tax Burden in 35 Years: Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family dropped to their lowest level in 35 years
Higher Incomes even after Taxes and Inflation: real after-tax incomes grew by an average of 2.6 percent per year for the lower-income half of taxpayers between 1993 and 1997, while growing by an average of 1.0 percent between 1981 and 1993
AGAINST TERRORISM

# PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator of anti-terrorist efforts.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold the Al Qaeda millennium hijacking and bombing plots.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to kill the Pope.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Boston airport.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.
# Bill Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).
# Bill Clinton brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.
# Bill Clinton did not blame the Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after Bush left office. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.
# Bill Clinton named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to tighten airport security. (Remember, this is before 911) The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to allow for better tracking of terrorist funding. It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to add tagents to explosives, to allow for better tracking of explosives used by terrorists. It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.
# Bill Clinton increased the military budget by an average of 14 per cent, reversing the trend under Bush I.
# Bill Clinton tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.
# Bill Clinton detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries.
# Bill Clinton created national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.
# Of Clinton's efforts says Robert Oakley, Reagan Ambassador for Counterterrorism: "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama".
# Paul Bremer, current Civilian Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley as he believed the Bill Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden.
# Barton Gellman in the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Bill Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort".
http://liberalslikechrist.org/about/clinton.html
ON THE ENVIRONMENT
Bill Clinton issued an Executive Order on Environmental Justice to ensure that low-income citizens and minorities do not suffer a disproportionate burden of industrial pollution. Launched pilot projects in low-income communities across the country to redevelop contaminated sites into useable space, create jobs and enhance community development.

President Bill Clinton sought permanent funding of $1.4 billion a year through the Lands Legacy initiative to expand federal efforts to save America's natural treasures and provide significant new resources to states and communities to protect local green spaces and protect ocean and coastal resources. Won $652 million for Lands Legacy in the FY 2000 budget, a 42 percent increase.

Launched effort to protect over 40 million acres of "roadless areas," which include some of America's last wild places. Dramatically improved management of our national forests with an ambitious new science-based agenda that places greater emphasis on recreation, wildlife and water quality, while reforming logging practices to ensure steady, sustainable supplies of timber and jobs. Balanced the preservation of old-growth stands with the economic needs of timber-dependent communities through the Pacific Northwest Forest Plan.

Adopted a uniform tailpipe standard to passenger cars, SUVs and other light-duty trucks, producing cars that are 77 percent cleaner -- and light-duty trucks up to 95 percent cleaner -- than those on the road today. Set new standard to reduce average sulfur levels in gasoline by up to 90 percent. Once fully implemented in 2030, these measures will prevent 43,000 premature deaths and 173,000 cases of childhood respiratory illness each year, and reduce emissions by the equivalent to removing 164 million cars from the road.

# Approved strong new clean air standards for soot and smog that could prevent up to 15,000 premature deaths a year and improve the lives of millions of Americans who suffer from respiratory illnesses. Defending the standards against legal assaults by polluters.

# Accelerating Toxic Waste Cleanups. Completed cleanup at 515 Superfund sites, more than three times as many as the previous two administrations, with cleanup of more than 90 percent of all sites either completed or in progress. Secured $1.4 billion in FY 2000 to continue progress toward cleaning up 900 Superfund sites by 2002.

# Providing Safe Drinking Water: Proposed and signed legislation to strengthen the Safe Drinking Water Act and ensure that our families have healthy clean tap water. Required America's 55,000 water utility companies to provide regular reports to their customers on the quality of their drinking water.

# Established EPA's Drinking Water State Revolving Fund (DWSRF) that provides grants to States to finance priority drinking water projects that meet Clean Water Act mandates. To date, the DWSRFs have provided $1.9 billion in loans to communities.

# Awarded nearly $200 million in Department of Agriculture (USDA) loans and grants for over 100 safe drinking water projects in rural areas of 40 states. USDA grants and loans target rural communities plagued by some of the nation's worst water quality and dependability problems.

# Expanded Safe Drinking Water Act protections to protect 40 million additional Americans in small communities from potentially dangerous microbes, including Cryptosporidium, in their drinking water.

# Ensuring Clean Water. Launched the Clean Water Action Plan to help clean up the 40 percent of America's surveyed waterways still too polluted for fishing and swimming. Secured $3.9 billion since 1998, a 16 percent increase, to help states, communities and landowners in reducing polluted runoff, enhancing natural resource stewardship, improving citizens' right to know, and protecting public health.

# Strengthening Communities' Right to Know. Strengthened the public's right to know about chemicals released into their air and water by partnering with the chemical industry and the environmental community in an effort to provide complete data on the potential health risks of the 2,800 most widely used chemicals. Nearly doubled the number of chemicals that industry must report to communities, while expanding the number of facilities that must report by 30 percent.

# Expanded the community right to know about releases of 27 persistent bio-accumulative toxins (including mercury, dioxin, and PCBs). These highly toxic chemicals are especially risky because they do not break down easily and are known to accumulate in the human body.

# Secured $83 million in FY 2000 for two major new efforts to restore salmon in the Pacific Northwest: $58 million for the Pacific Coastal Salmon Recovery Fund, which provides resources for states and tribes to protect and rebuild salmon stocks; and $25 million to implement the historic Pacific Salmon Treaty with Canada, which established two regional funds to improve fisheries management and enhance bilateral scientific cooperation between the two countries and provides funding to buy back fishing permits in Washington.
# Expanding Wildlife Refuges. Added 57,000 acres, including lands along the last free-flowing section of the Columbia River, to the Saddle Mountain National Wildlife Refuge to protect salmon habitat in Washington.

# Forging Partnerships to Protect Habitat. Completed 255 major Habitat Conservation Plans (HCPs), compared to 14 before the Administration took office, to protect more than 20 million acres of private land and over 170 threatened and endangered species. These voluntary agreements protect habitat while providing landowners the certainty they need to effectively manage their lands.

# Strengthening Protections for Wildlife. Signed legislation that strengthens protections for wildlife by mandating that the most important use of our nation's wildlife refuges is giving refuge to migratory birds and other animals reliant on this rich system of natural habitat.

Protecting our Oceans and Coasts

# Creating Comprehensive Oceans Policy. Directed the development of key recommendations for strengthening federal oceans policy for the 21st century and appointed a high-level task force to oversee the implementation of those recommendations. Convened a National Ocean Conference in June 1998 that brought together government experts, business executives, scientists, environmentalists, elected officials and the public to examine opportunities and challenges in restoring and protecting our ocean resources.

# Strengthening Our National Marine Sanctuaries. Secured a funding increase of over 100% to better support national marine sanctuaries -- homes to coral reefs, kelp forests, humpback whales, and loggerhead turtles. Supporting the five-year Sustainable Seas Expeditions to explore, study and document ways to better protect underwater resources.

# Preserving Coral Reefs. Issued an Executive Order to expand protection of coral reefs and their ecosystems to address issues of coral reef management, expansion of marine protected areas and increased protections for coral reef species.

# Protecting Marine Mammals. Led negotiations resulting in a multilateral agreement to protect dolphins in the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean. Issued new standards to protect the endangered northern right whale from injuries from ships by instituting a first-ever ship reporting requirement in two areas of right whale critical habitat. Fought for creation of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, an area of more than 12 million square miles off the coast of Antarctica.

# Banning Ocean Dumping of Toxic Waste. Led the world in calling for a global ban on ocean dumping of low-level radioactive waste. The U.S. was the first nuclear power to advocate the ban.

Introduced "Better America Bonds" to generate $10.75 billion in bond authority over five years to preserve open space, improve water quality and clean up abandoned and contaminated properties known as brownfields. Local communities can work together in partnerships with land trust groups, environmentalists, business leaders and others to develop innovative solutions to their community's development challenges.

# Provided leadership critical to successful negotiation of the Kyoto Protocol, which sets strong, realistic targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and establishes flexible, market-based mechanisms to achieve them as cost-effectively as possible.

# Investing in Clean Energy Research. Won more than $1 billion in FY 1999 and in FY 2000 for the Climate Change Technology Initiative, a program of clean energy research and development that will save energy and consumers money. Extended the tax credits for wind and biomass energy production through 2001, reducing emissions and reliance on imported oil.

# Growing Clean Energy Technologies. Issued an Executive Order to coordinate federal efforts to spur the development and use of bio-based technologies, which can convert crops, trees and other "biomass" into a vast array of fuels and materials. Set a goal of tripling our use of bioenergy and bioproducts by 2010 to reduce annual greenhouse gas emissions by up to 100 million tons a year -- the equivalent of taking 70 million cars off the road.

# Improving Scientific Understanding. Increased funding for the United States Global Change Research Program to more than $1.7 billion in FY 2000 to provide a sound scientific understanding of both the human and natural forces that influence the Earth's climate system. This record research budget continues strong support for the "Carbon Cycle Initiative" begun last year to improve our understanding of the role of farms, forests, and other natural or managed lands in capturing carbon.

# Energy Efficiency Standards for Appliances. Issued new energy efficiency standards for refrigerators, refrigerator-freezers, freezers and room air conditioners that will save consumers money and reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and dependence on foreign oil. The new standards will cut the average appliance's energy usage by 30 percent and save more than seven quadrillion BTUs of energy over the next 30 years, more than seven times the annual energy consumption of the entire state of Arkansas.

# Promoting federal Energy Efficiency. Issued an Executive Order directing federal agencies to reduce energy use in buildings 35 percent by 2010, reducing annual greenhouse gas emissions by the equivalent of taking 1.7 million cars off the road and saving taxpayers over $750 million a year. Forged new partnerships with industry to develop and promote energy-saving cars, homes and consumer products with the potential to save Americans hundreds of millions of dollars in energy bills and significantly curb greenhouse gas pollution.
http://www.environmentalcaucus.org/gore.html

[yardwork]

90. Thank you!

I really think some people here need to learn some history.

[emilyg]

92. Thank you.

[tishaLA]

113. None of that is what the mailer argues, however.

Did the party expand or contract under Clinton, especially in elected offices?

[in_cog_ni_to]

119. He's attacking Bill Clinton's Presidency. The last Democratic President we had! Why isn't he

attacking the PSYCHO-IN-CHIEF and his regime? Or maybe the REPUKES? I hope Clinton takes this guy on....no holds barred!

[tishaLA]

132. he's attacking the inability to get Democrats elected to

the senate, governorships, etc. That's PRECISELY what the OP says, what TPM says, and it has nothing to do with your strawman.

[in_cog_ni_to]

172. WTF? What was the 2006 election? An illusion?

What a stupid thing to say.

[tishaLA]

185. 2006 was during the Clinton administration?

Odd how calendars work...

[DiamondJay]

170. I know! We should just praise the PREVIOUS Dem administration

JIMMY CARTER was the last great president we had! Yea, lets go tell Americans we will go give them 20 percent interest rates and higher gas prices (which they are if adjusted for inflation)! AND stagflation, and the hostage crisis! THAT will sure turn americans on to the idea of a Democratic president.

[incapsulated]

153. No, remember, it was REAGAN and the repukes who had the "ideas"

Obama never met a dem he liked unless they personally endorsed them.

Oh, except Lieberman.


Hmmmm.................

[CarolNYC]

48. Yeah, I don't get it...

He wants unity with the Republicans but not his fellow Democrats? Something's wrong there....

[John Q. Citizen]

63. That's why Hill voted to invade Iraq. Because a majority of Dems voted against. right?

[yardwork]

89. Over and over I see this with Obama. There's no Republican whose hand he won't shake.

But Obama spits poison about Democrats all over the place.

[Tarc]

54. I used to think the Obamanaics were worse than the man himself, but no longer

What a despicable and bitter piece of trash this man has become, lambasting the best 8 years that this country had seen in a long, long time. This "less polarizing bullshit meme sums up his naivety to a T, as he would be savaged in the G.E. just as much as she would be.


Goddamn this pisses me off! My "I'll still vote for Obama in the G.E. if he wins" sentiment has gone from

"I'll sigh and do it"
to
"I'll hold my nose while doing it"
to
"I'll try not to vomit in my own mouth while doing it"

[OzarkDem]

59. Agree, he's scum

[TornadoTN]

68. Clintonites are hilarious

Funny how you people just seem to forget that Bill's treating the White House like a frat house had a lot to do with the negative perception about Democrats that led to a lot of the losses (directly or indirectly).

Remember: I think what Bill did was a private matter and shouldn't have been thrown on the country. However, I think that its pretty disingenious to discount it and the effect that it had on the average voter. It gave the GOP war machine plenty of ammo that played to the lowest common denominator.

[laconicsax]

60. Who did Obama vote for in '92 and '96?

For that matter, who did he vote for in 2000? 2004?

edit: typo

[in_cog_ni_to]

65. GOOD question! I'm going to go and find out!

:hi:

[Straight Shooter]

66. Whatever he voted, he probably remembers it as pushing the wrong button. n/t

[Metric System]

79. Probably Bush, Dole, Nader, Bush

[sampsonblk]

207. He just voted present-nt

[Bake]

71. If he doesn't want Dems like me to vote for him, fine

I'll oblige him. In the GE. Maybe he can get enough Pukes and independents to make up for all the loyal Democrats he's pissing off with shit like this.

Is he just TRYING to find a way to lose?

Bake

[rodeodance]

112. It certainly will NOT sit well with so much of Dem base (kennedy aside)

[russian33]

131. it seems like a trend

pushing away the dem base, to "reach across the party lines"...i want the Democratic President to be elected by Democrats, not by Republicans and Independents

[rodeodance]

139. I'm with you on that one!

[Straight Shooter]

72. That's Axelrod talking.

Count on it. Trying to put Hillary on the defensive, forgetting that the GOP had the most malicious machine since gawd knows when.

What did Axelrod do to fight Rove and the right wing?

[OzarkDem]

94. Nothing, but Axelrod is good at beating up on Dems

He's another inbred, mutant Democrat who has spent his entire career beating up other Dems in local and primary races. They always have far less enthusiasm for going after Republicans.

[Alamom]

82. Tis a beauty and will most likely be picked up by some TV station by tonight.

Not that they would want to put down Obama,(the Lovefest continues) but they (also)love WJC stories and don't have sense enough to know, many Democrats won't like this at all.......

[surfermaw]

88. What would you expect from some one in my opinion bought and paid for by rep.party

[yardwork]

95. That's what it looks like, intentional or not.

That's the kind of crap we've heard from Republicans for decades. It's pathetic to hear Democrat saying it! Especially one who claims to be running on "hope and unity."

[rodeodance]

105. starting to look more and more like it. Joe. L. type.

[incapsulated]

150. The Black Lieberman

He literally is making me sick, now.

[Barack_America]

96. That's pretty much indisputable fact. n/t

[rodeodance]

99. Obama/camp will do anything to win!--Using Rovian dirty tricks like the IP is an example of this.

[Alexander]

107. The Clintons are McAwful allies. McAwful screwed the Democratic party.

I noticed you can't refute the mailer on a factual basis, so you went to Plan B.

Fake outrage.

[crazylikafox]

108. Wow, just wow. This wavering ex-Edwards vote just went to Hillary

If I wanted Regan/Bush lite I'd just vote for McCain.

Hope what? Hope for more Karl Rove?

[cottonseed]

115. Don't see anything there that's an untruth nt

[Carrieyazel]

116. A baffling, ignorant and wrong-headed attack for three reasons.

1. We got both houses of Congress BACK and are poised to increase our majorities. And we GAINED seats for THREE CONSECUTIVE ELECTIONS THROUGH 2000 IN CONGRESS before our trouncing of the Repukes just over a year ago. Instead of talking about the future, Obama seems intent on reliving the past. ( I thought he was all about the future, I guess not!)

2. Bill Clinton was in the White House for 8 crucial years, and we had to have him there at that exact time (regardless of which party controlled Congress) because his executive power held back the Repukes at the peak of their "ideological movement".

3. A relentless Repuke attack machine and lamestream media, and Bill's one personal mistake (Monica), caused far more problems for us than "his Presidency" in general. I can't believe Obama's ignorance here.


Obama must be sensing trouble if he has to do this.

[Nimrod2005]

122. Right on Senator!!! Well done!

[robbedvoter]

125. Obama - still clueless about Clinton's popularity in this country - believing MSM

He thinks we love Raygun, hate Clinton...:shrug:

[yardwork]

130. I just can't believe it. Obama praising Reagan and blaming Clinton.

It just boggles the mind.

[in_cog_ni_to]

133. This and his Reagan swooning makes him suspect, IMCPO. n/t

[zulchzulu]

136. Can those that disagree with this fact debunk what is actually true?

Perhaps those that would like to defend Clinton have some information to debunk the fact that the Clintons were radioactive when it came to coat tails in elections in the 1990's.

Let's see the fact, or you can just namecall. I would then now you are out of ammo.

[beachmom]

137. Obama got that right. Good for him for speaking the truth. nt

[leftynyc]

138. Isn't he supposed to be attacking pubs?

Campaign of hope?? Hope for what?

[robbedvoter]

143. "that the GOP-ers will love this so much, they'll willingly accept Obama as their

savior and subscribe to the democratic principles of governance"
It was almost a Du post - I only added the savior part to stress the point.

[Cameron27]

144. He should be attacking the repubs,

but he was the only person in either party who resorted to criticizing his opponent last night.

[ieoeja]

140. I've been saying the same thing for years. Reason #1 to support Obama & Dean. n/t

[incapsulated]

145. He blows kisses to Reagan and bitchslaps Dem presidents

There is a reason this fuck is so popular with republicans.

[madrchsod]

152. bill never had a "mandate"-hillary will.

if hillary has learned from their failures in his first term then she`ll do just fine. if she does`t, the midterms will not be pretty

i really need to preview

[SaveOurDemocracy]

155. I will make my first donation to HRC today...

I think this flyer is a hideous distortion of the facts and I see that my reservations about Barack Obama have been well-placed.

[incapsulated]

156. I'm going to as well

This is really the last straw.

[russian33]

158. thank you...any help is great

personally, i remember the person who spoke at the Dem.convention, and then I see this now...and it disappoints, a lot

[SaveOurDemocracy]

160. Please K&R this post for all to see whose campaign...

is really using Rovian tactics.


If this sickens you, as much as it does me, please consider donating to Hillary Rodham Clinton's Presidential campaign. I made my first donation there today after reading this distortion of the truth.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

161. *****KICK***** n/t

[DiamondJay]

162. jealousy. just pure jealousy

he just jealous the Clintons made it to the White House, and he knows he will not. The Clintons are not the out and out reason we lost party power. We had lost it beneath the surface in the 1980's, when the Reagan Revolution was happening, and many of the dems across the nation became conservative DINOs, and stayed such until they were comfortable with the GOPs ideas, which they were new to before Reagan took office. The only reason dems went down in 94 was because he was the epitome of the 60s, and many reagan dems in the south didn't like what they saw. But he did strengthen the democratic party elsewhere, and now we win every state on the seaboards in every election. We do much better than we did in 1972, 1980, 1984, and 1988.

[lastliberalintexas]

167. Clinton did a great deal to harm the Dem party in the 90s

Were you involved in politics then? Go into any union halls arguing on behalf of a pro-labor candidate only to get hit with BS gun issues because of Clinton pushing the damn issue? Clinton cost us a lot in 1994, and I still haven't gotten over it.

[russian33]

169. yes, i can see that

[lastliberalintexas]

171. Let me also preemptively state that I am not an Obama supporter

This is a long standing problem of mine with Bill Clinton and really has nothing to do with the current primary process. 1994 was brutal, and while some of the blame is due the Dem voters who sat that one out, a great deal of disaffection was caused by Clinton's actions during the first 2 years in office.

Bill Clinton is neither the savior of the Dem party nor the devil incarnate he's made out to be. He was a fairly effective politician, but just didn't have the positive coattails we needed.

[no name no slogan]

175. This uncommitted voter agrees with you, and remembers

Outside of the White House, the 90s were dismal years for Democrats and progressives. In 1992, we had control of congress and the majority of governorships and the majority of state houses. By 2000, we'd lost control of congress and lost our majority of congress, too.

Winning elections is part of it, but building up the party is a bigger part of it. A Democratic president can't accomplish anything without the help of Democratic congresscritters and legislators.

Clinton did NOTHING to build the party. He relied on his fat cat DLC friends to prop him up and buy his way into the White House. I'm afraid that Hillary is going to do the same thing.

[lastliberalintexas]

180. Yeah, the Clintons seem to prefer the top down leadership

One of the few things that makes me maybe possibly kind of almost think I could support Obama is the possibility that he leaves Dean in place. I'm almost certain Clinton replaces him.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

193. The only thing I agree with is ...

"A Democratic president can't accomplish anything without the help of Democratic congresscritters and legislators."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4437316&mesg_id=4441696

[DiamondJay]

173. but that was bring "progressive", right?

ironic people like you blame him for his moderatism costing us seats, but when he excersizes a liberal policy, you blame him. But I do see that its good we stay away from the gun issue today. The reason the dems lost in 94 was because anti-Washington establishment sentiment had been high since Reagan, and it was a democratic congress, coupled with a child of the 60's as president. Most traditional southerners did not like war-protesting draft-dodging pot-using woodstock attending people. The Clintons fit those desriptions. THATS why 94 sucked for us.

[lastliberalintexas]

174. Depends on one's definition of liberal

Personally, I am more a classical liberal than modern and I believe the individual trumps government in almost all contests. Justice Douglas' philosophy was described as the individual over the government, the government over the corporation and the environment above all else. Kind of me in a nutshell too.

I agree there were other factors in play, but I don't think the gun effect can be overstated for 1994. That was a tough year to be campaigning for Dems. :(

[SaveOurDemocracy]

191. I was involved, and it's still amazing to me that Clinton

was able to accomplish a n y t h i n g with the way the rabid RW dogged him, beginning BEFORE he even stepped into the White House. The GOP hated him because they never saw him coming, and he derailed (temporarily) their, already chiseled in stone, master plan.

The Dems in Congress weren't crazy about Bill Clinton either. He was a Washington outsider, who breezed past their chosen nominees with ease. The last thing THEY wanted was another Southern Governor in the White House. For the most part, they (the Dems) were a bunch of inept, lazy, arrogant, entrenched politicians who had already traded any ideals and/or passion, they once may have had, for power and prestige and they were enjoying their free ride. The Democratic voters were already sick to death of what they saw coming out of Washington and the established political players. Bill Clinton is NOT responsible for the lost seats ... he WON his election.

Many of our respected elder congressmen, who are now jumping on the Obama endorsement train, were the very same ones who sat idly by while the witch hunt was raging. I see their endorsements as nothing more than petty political ploys. Call me a cynic, but I just have to wonder why, with all the critical issues this country is facing, they want to go with the rookie.

[lastliberalintexas]

204. I agree somewhat

As I said elsewhere, Clinton was an effective politician, just without positive coattails. My problem with Clinton was that he gave the right wing so much free ammunition with which to shoot at him that, even though he himself escaped relatively unscathed, many other Dems were shot in the crossfire. (I thought I'd find some sort of gun analogy since that was probably his biggest early screw up)

He absolutely knew from the beginning that he was under a microscope and that the right wing was after anything they could find on him, policy or otherwise. Which is why it's bloody amazing that he made so many bone-headed decisions during that time. Smart man, but not good at covering his back.

[vireo]

176. Limbaugh was more responsible than Clinton

After last November's elections, Mr. Limbaugh was named an honorary member of the new Congress by freshmen Republicans, many of whom attributed their victories to his tireless bashing of Democrats. One of Mr. Limbaugh's callers yesterday told him that he has "more control and more power than anyone else" to influence Congress.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE4D81F39F931A35750C0A963958260

One could argue more specifically that repeal of the Fairness Doctrine was to blame, but that happened under Reagan.

[DemGa]

178. Is Obama a Democrat??

I think Obama has his own party.

[Marie26]

179. Obamacan

I don't know why that didn't end things right there.

[bluedog]

183. the republican in Democrat clothing

attack the Democrats Obama...................that'll get you points with your GOP buddies!

[TheDeathadder]

184. Please!!!

It was never Clinton's fault for the losses. It was the repubs love to be in control and they work as an united and loyal army. For years we saw the rise of the repubs coming and the powers that be at Dem HQ tried to ignore it instead of face their movement head on. That's why the crushed us, we were all shot in the back as the repubs pillaged an undefended Washington. The Clinton have always defeated the repubs because they face them head on and that's why the Repubs hate the Clintons.

[Seabiscuit]

187. Mr. Brightside sounding presidential again?

I wish Barack would just concentrate on his issues and what he will do for the country than attacking the Clintons. Hasn't he figured out he's running against Hillary and not Bill. I wish he'd talk about the issues.

[russian33]

188. kick

:kick:

[newmajority]

189. The numbers don't lie. The Clintons' DLC has drastically diminished the Democratic majority.

28 years of Bush Clinton came damn close to making us a permanent minority, and there's enough evidence to say it was done by design.

Either we get rid of them or they will get rid of us. The world would be much better off if it was them.

[WinkyDink]

190. I thought it was a DU FACT that Al Gore WON. Anyway, why should Obama care? He's going to

everyone to COMPROMISE, anyway!

[jillan]

194. Why is it okay that he can attack Bill, but not the other way around?

Oh yeah, if you say something about Obama, you are a racist :eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

195. Obama is CORRECT! Not just Bill's presidency but his right leaning DLC organization has pushed

our party toward the bat shit crazy hawkish/corporate political right. :grr:

We need to purge the right wing DLCers out of "key positions" within *our* Democratic party leadership. That will not happen if HRC win's Bill's Clintonian DLC a THIRD (3x) term of staffing *our* Executive Branch. :thumbsdown:

[DS1]

197. Obama to Clinton - "Suck it!". Clinton to Obama - "Hey, that's my line!"

:evilgrin:

[Catchawave]

198. Blaming Bill is soooo "republican"

Grow up Obama.

[BootinUp]

199. Obama reveals himself for the low down dirty campaigner

he is. If you can't win on qualifications and Hope, how about some Rove style rewriting history CRAP!

[SaveOurDemocracy]

201. K I C K

:yoiks:

[depakid]

202. Well, he's absolutely right

You can place the blame for 12+ years of losses on the Clinton administration- and the DLC for enabling and legitimizing far right policies, while selling out their own. Time and time again.

Not that Obama has been sounding a whole lot better in this respect, pandering to fundies and lauding Ronald Reagan.