The "Double Bubble" Trouble in CA, where "decline to state" voters are 20% of the electorate!

[flpoljunkie]

DOUBLE BUBBLE TROUBLE IN CALIFORNIA

LOS ANGELES, CA - This state, with a tradition of high turnout, activist communities and 441 delegates, is the focus of today's media coverage. But this heightened attention is nothing new. Here, the popularity of elections is sure to expose even the most minute hiccup. Today, there was one.

The process is this: decline-to-state voters who wish to exercise their franchise in the Democratic Primary must ask the poll-workers for a Democratic ballot. Fair enough.

Here's the trouble: In the voting booth, voters must then mark a bubble on the ballot that confirms the voter is indeed voting on a Democratic ballot. If they fail to mark, their ballots go uncounted. And further, if a voter neglects to fill in this bubble, a voting machine will not return the ballot because the vote is counted as an under-vote. In Los Angeles County alone, 776,000 voters are susceptible to double bubble trouble.

Needless to say, many decline-to-state voters were confused. After all, by requesting the ballot in the first place, voters are already in essence filling out this bubble. The San Francisco Chronicle reports that poll workers have also been uninformed. Decline-to-state voters were denied the right to participate within the Democratic Primary, and were given non-partisan ballots.

20% of Californians consider themselves, and are registered as, decline-to-state voters, yet in this historical nomination process their voice is jeopardized by baffling ballot rules and puzzled poll workers.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Well, that's a mess!

Why do they have to make things so damn complicated?

At the very least, the poll workers should be properly trained!

I wonder how many votes were lost?

:grr:

[maddezmom]

2. dear god, this is bad

I can't get the link to work :hi: Does it say how many under votes they had?

[EFerrari]

3. Link to my earlier thread with Chron article here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4437094

It IS bad. :(

[maddezmom]

4. thanks for the link

I now have serious heartburn and a headache. :(

[EFerrari]

8. I know. But, take heart. We have a MUCH better election protection

network than we had 4 or even 8 years ago.

And, in truth, that's why I'm posting this info here and not in ER. DUers who are so invested in the primaries need to be invested in election protection, too, so they can see their good work have good results.

There are going to be these problems all over the country and to the nth degree. Let's hang in and figure out how to handle or minimize them, if we can, by November.

The Thugs have been setting up all kinds of traps for Democratic voters -- vote caging, kicking us off the rolls, understocking our ballots and under-equiping our precincts. That's what they do.

We push back. :hug:

[NashVegas]

5. A Lot of Reasons to Feel This Is Bogus

One of the articles linked to states there are over 700k voters in the area who were grabbing "decline to state" ballots and chose to vote in the Democratic party.

First, if you want to have a say in who the Democratic party is going to put forward but don't want to be committed to the Dem party - just go swallow.

Second, if you request a Dem ballot and still can't indicate you are aware you're voting for a Dem, just go swallow.

Finally, contrary to what the fellows in the video are saying, voting in the primary means you are voting for what candidate a political party will put forward, you are NOT voting for President. If you want to vote for President, wait until November.

[JackORoses]

9. just go swallow a shit milkshake, pal.

these People made valid selections for the Democratic Nominee, they should be counted as such.

Why would they vote for a Democrat if they weren't attempting to vote in the Democratic Primary?

[NashVegas]

15. Instructions Were Under Their Nose, In Duplicate

Telling people what to check off and where.

If voter does not want to be identified as a member of a political party they really don't have much business deciding who that party's candidate will be, IMO.

[Recursion]

22. "too dumb to vote correctly"

I seem to remember hearing that about 7 years ago...

[flpoljunkie]

31. Perhaps they feared they would lose their status as "decline to state" independents.

I see no reason why they should have to make this designation if they asked for a Democratic ballot.

[EFerrari]

10. It's not bogus. If you are a DTS voter, here in CA you can request

a Democratic ballot and vote.

[NashVegas]

16. Yes, You Can

Is there a reason why someone would not be able to understand instructions that are printed in duplicate?

[EFerrari]

18. Sure. Inexperienced voters, election workers who give misdirections,

running out of ballots to be read in the first place. Lots of reasons.

Just because it's printed somewhere is no guarantee that the print will be accessed or understood. :(

/typo

[NashVegas]

20. I Don't See How It Can't Be Accessed

Unless the voter in question is blind or can't read English, in which case they would have to have assistance, anyway.

[EFerrari]

23. A whole lot of new voters are trying to vote.

If you as an election worker told me I can't vote, as a new voter, I'd probably just take your word for it. :shrug:

[NashVegas]

25. That's Not What This Story Says

In the OP, the published story doesn't claim election workers are saying that. The newspaper article that story cites in this line: "The San Francisco Chronicle reports that poll workers have also been uninformed " makes no such accusation. The only part of the Chronicle story that names a difficulty with the poll workers is one guy whose name they had a hard time finding on the rolls.

Otherwise the only problem poll workers had was finding enough Dem ballots, because people who were not registered Dems wanted to pick the Dem candidate.

[EFerrari]

37. In the first place, what do you get when the poll workers are uninformed?

In the second place, this ENTIRE STORY is about the votes of people who are not registered Democrats having trouble voting for democrats as they are entitled to do in our system if they are Decline To State voters.

[Nailzberg]

19. Sounds just like my neighbor talking about Florida eight years ago.

[NashVegas]

21. Please Watch The Accompanying Video With the Story

You can hit pause when it shows the ballot.

In no way can this be compared to the situation with the butterfly ballot.

[Nailzberg]

26. I voted on that ballot, I don't need you to tell me about it.

[NashVegas]

27. Was It Unclear To You

What boxes you were supposed to check off?

[Nailzberg]

32. Couldn't say - I went in the middle of the day and a volunteer told me about it.

So I knew I had to before I read it.
I doubt this helpful experience was the case everywhere. Like I said, I went when no one was there. People may not have gotten the explanation at all polling places or during peak times.

But I am a professional researcher and fairly confident in my analytical mind, I probably would have figured it out. But it's not about me.

The whole 'too stupid to vote' argument has no place in the democratic party. If people are denied the opportunity to vote, it's wrong.

[NashVegas]

33. I Didn't Write "Too Stupid to Vote"

Those are your words, not mine. I don't believe I implied in my posts that anyone was. Furthermore, the story in the OP cites no definite instances where someone's vote wasn't counted because of this, but relies on speculation. Furthermore, the article it cites and links to where it states poll workers weren't informed of the issue makes no such claim!

I believe the people who are stating or otherwise implying people are "too stupid to vote" on the ballots are those who made the video in the OP and, in this thread, are criticizing the ballot. Yet they, themselves, didn't have the problem.

[Nailzberg]

35. You simply implied it by saying "Instructions were under their nose"

[NashVegas]

36. I Implied Nothing of the Sort - YOU Inferred

Noting that there are clearly printed instructions might be expected to convey the thought that actual voters shouldn't have too much trouble figuring it out.

And again - nowhere in the SFC article cited in the blog the OP linked to were there any instances of confusion resulting from this particular ballot.

[Xithras]

24. I'm a DTS voter and it's got nothing to do with "commitment".

California is nasty with the robocalls, people calling begging for money, and junkmail. I was registered as a Democrat up unil a few years ago, but I literally started getting two or three political calls a night, and around election time I'd get DOZENS of political mail pieces every day. Several years ago I made a choice that, for environmental reasons, I was going to opt out of junk mail. My credit info now blocks inquiries to cut the credit offers, I ceased doing business with companies that shared my info (sender-unique email addresses are very cool for this), and I re-registered as DTS to cut out the mounds of political trash. The robocalls and the blind calls from people wanting donations ended too.

I'm a Democrat, I vote Democrat, I've phonebanked for Democrats, and I proudly have many Democratic signs posted to the picket fence out in front of my house. My official registration, however, is DTS. It will remain so for as long as the Democratic party in this state allows DTS's to participate in party political processes.

[NashVegas]

28. Sorry About That

But yeah, it goes with the territory.

Personally, I think the parties should return to the old backroom deals. These primaries just seem to disillusion the electorate more than ever.

[kestrel91316]

6. Was this Connie McCormack's bright idea? Let me guess.

[EFerrari]

11. She retired when we voted Debra in but you hafta know,

her dirty fingerprints are still all over our procedures.

[kestrel91316]

17. I blame Connie for not processing my DMV address change

(and accompanying voter registration change) in a timely manner. I missed the deadline for getting an absentee ballot by ONE day. I put my address change in with DMV in mid-Oct.

:banghead: :grr:

[Texas_Kat]

7. Voters who can't read instructions PRINTED ON THE BALLOT

Sheesh!

[EFerrari]

12. Well, first they have to have ACCESS to that ,ballot, right? n/t

[Texas_Kat]

13. Pick your poison, paper or electronic

There are problems with either one.

[EFerrari]

14. But the problems with electronic far outnumber the ones with paper. n/t

[Texas_Kat]

29. Do they?

Spoken like someone who's never actually had to deal with election fraud and paper ballots. It got Phil Gramm elected to Congress in 78. He'd have been relegated to teaching at A&M forever except for that.

History, learn from it.

[EFerrari]

38. Save it. it doesn't impress me in the least. n/t

[Texas_Kat]

39. Fraud in 4 precincts changed history

Learn from it or repeat it -- your choice

[flpoljunkie]

30. Sheesh! Are we for counting votes or not? No matter who they voted for?

If the voter's intent is clear, their vote should be counted.

[begin_within]

34. Is that true for all counties?

I'm registered as as Democrat, in San Diego county, and I got the Democratic ballot, but nobody said I had to fill in a bubble indicating that, and it says nothing about this in my sample ballot booklet. Isn't the scanning software smart enough to recognize that it's a Democratic primary ballot, just by which candidates are included on it?

[EFerrari]

41. You'd think so. I heard this morning that in L.A. county some attempt

is being made to find those Indy ballot undercounted. Haven't heard the same about Santa Clara County where there was also a known problem.

[AZBlue]

40. That's very bad - is it the same in the GE?