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athena Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:50 AM
Original message
In response to those who claim Obama is less progressive than Clinton ...
(I've posted some of this elsewhere, but I think it deserves its own thread.)

Here is a recent Nation editorial endorsing Obama:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080225/editors

This magazine has been critical of the senator from Illinois for his closeness to Wall Street; his unwillingness to lay out an ambitious progressive agenda on healthcare, housing and other domestic policy issues; and for postpartisan rhetoric that seems to ignore the manifest failure of conservatism over these past seven years. But as Christopher Hayes argued in our cover story last week, Obama has also exhibited a more humane and wise approach to foreign policy, opposing the Iraq War while Clinton voted for it, and has been a reliable progressive ally over the course of his career. While his rhetoric about "unity" can be troubling, it also embodies a savvy strategy to redefine the center of American politics and build a coalition by reaching out to independent and Republican voters disgruntled and disgusted with what the Bush era has wrought. Most important, we feel his candidacy, in its demonstrated investment in organizing and grassroots activism as well as his personal appeal, represents the best chance to forge a new progressive majority. For these reasons we support Obama for President.


Here is Christopher Hayes endorsing Obama:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080218/hayes

The question then becomes this: which of the two Democratic candidates is more likely to bring to fruition a new progressive majority? I believe, passionately and deeply, if occasionally waveringly, that it's Barack Obama.


Here is Katha Pollitt, a well-known feminist, endorsing Obama:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/anotherthing?bid=25&pid=279745

When Obama won Iowa, I was surprised that I was glad. Much as I would love to pull the lever for a woman president -- a pro-choice Democratic woman president, that is --I realized at that moment how deeply unthrilled I was by the prospect of a grim vote-by-vote fight for the 50 percent+1 majority in a campaign that would rehearse all the old, (yes, mostly bogus or exaggerated) scandals and maybe turn up some new ones too. I wasn't delighted to think success would mean four more years of Bill Clinton either, or might come at the price of downticket losses, as many red-state Democrats fear. Democrats have nominated plenty of dutiful public servants over the years -- Humphrey, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry . They have always lost (or in Gore's case, not won by enough to not lose). Obama may not be as progressive as we wish over here at The Nation-- and maybe someday we can have a serious conversation about why Edwards' economic populism, promoted for years by important voices at the magazine, was such a bust. But Obama is a candidate in a different mold. He's a natural politician who connects with people as Hillary Clinton, for whatever reason, just doesn't, and appeals to the better angels of their nature. He sparks an enthusiasm in people--independents, the young, the previously disengaged. An Obama victory could have big positive repercussions for progressive politics.


And here is Frank Rich, another progressive, supporting Obama and complaining about the dirty politics the Clinton campaign has been engaging in:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/opinion/10rich.html?ref=opinion

And here is a Nation article that points out that Obama is more anti-nuclear-proliferation than Clinton:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071224/schell

The most significant conversion to abolition, however, was made by Barack Obama in a major foreign policy speech in October. He stated, "We'll keep our commitment under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty on the long road towards eliminating nuclear weapons.... As we do this, we'll be in a better position to lead the world in enforcing the rules of the road if we firmly abide by those rules. It's time to stop giving countries like Iran and North Korea an excuse."

Hillary Clinton took note of the Journal article in an article of her own in Foreign Affairs, but her substance and tone were notably different from Obama's. She reported that the Journal four had advocated "reducing reliance on nuclear weapons" and promised to do the same. But the very title of the article had been something quite different: "A World Free of Nuclear Weapons"--a goal unmentioned and not embraced by Clinton. As if to underscore the evasion, she claimed she could "reassert our nonproliferation leadership" merely by negotiating an agreement to further reduce US and Russian arsenals. In a remarkable piece of double-think, she added that this "dramatic initiative" would "send a strong message of nuclear restraint to the world, while we retain enough strength to deter others from trying to match our arsenal." Deterring others from matching the United States is crucially different from deterring them from attacking the United States, for it commits the nation, as the Bush Administration does, to indefinite nuclear superiority over all other nations. In short, her "dramatic" act of "restraint" would leave the United States in a position of global nuclear dominance for the indefinite future. It's hard to imagine a stance more likely to accelerate nuclear proliferation.

The statements of Obama and Clinton have drawn a line between the campaigns of these two Democratic front-runners on an issue of supreme importance for our time. Obama has embraced the goal of a world without nuclear weapons. Clinton has not. Wouldn't this matter be as worthy of a few questions in the debates as, say, driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants or Obama's readiness to get verbally tough with Clinton?



While progressives may wish that Obama had spoken out more loudly against certain things, it has to be remembered that he was a new Senator. If he had spoken out more loudly, he might not have had a chance at the presidency right now. Here is a LTE that was published in The Nation, which explains what happens to freshman Senators who don't toe the party line:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060918/letter

It doesn't matter how much charisma or intelligence or promise any legislative minority freshman has; s/he's still a freshman in the minority. To earn the respect and trust needed to exert principled influence on policy-making over the long run, a freshman simply must show some deference to veteran colleagues and avoid the temptation to grandstand.

Case in point: Sheila Jackson Lee, a Houston African-American, was one of only thirteen Democratic freshmen elected to the House in 1994, the year Newt Gingrich engineered the end of her party's nearly four-decade control of that body. Lee, a graduate of Yale Law School who won the seat of the late House giant Barbara Jordan, was seen as a rising star, like Barack Obama. But the voluble Lee sought the media spotlight for every left-wing cause. As her communications director at the time, I failed to dissuade her from this imprudent approach. Lee developed a reputation as an egomaniacal prima donna and has since squandered much of her credibility with the media and colleagues. And though she could remain in Congress for decades--indefinitely winning re-election in her gerrymandered district--no one in Washington expects her ever to exert serious influence on policy-making.

Obama's been in office only twenty months. If Sirota and other impatient progressives want to see him go down in history as an effective leader, they should climb off his back and be thankful he understands that real progress takes time.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. If Obama ever got there, the Nation would be the first to turn on him.
They are only supporting him because they hate the Clintons so much & the greens don't have a candidate.
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athena Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. You don't read the Nation, do you?
Edited on Sun Feb-10-08 03:05 AM by athena
The Nation doesn't hate the Clintons. It has also published articles that were pro-Clinton. They've also criticized Nader for running in the past.

ETA: I don't have a problem with the Nation criticizing Obama once he's president. That's its job.
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WA98070 Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Less is a relative term. Like Bush is more progressive than Cheney.
Edited on Sun Feb-10-08 02:57 AM by WA98070
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. they're pretty much the same
neither Hillary nor Obama has a monopoly on endorsements from progressives.
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. except for that little war vote
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Obama continues to fund the war
Same fucking thing.

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Not the same fucking thing.
Big fucking difference.

Military appropriations are not earmarked. We can't support the hunt for terrorists in Afghanistan and de-fund Iraq at the same time. We can't provide aircraft fuel for medivac choppers, and withhold it for Apaches at the same time.

But we COULD have prevented the attack on Iraq in the first place. If our senators had actually voted AGAINST it.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. that's not a significant difference, imo
that vote doesn't tell me any difference between the two on Iraq.
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Hillary thought going into Iraq was okay, Obama thought it was a mistake through and through
big difference
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Hillary took one posture
Obama took another. No difference.
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athena Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I take it you didn't actually read any of the articles I posted?
There is quite a bit of information in there. Did you even notice that one of the excerpts says Obama is against abolishing nuclear weapons while Clinton is not?
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Obama is good on nukes
on of the first things he did at the Senate was to partner with Sen. Lugar on a nonproliferation initiative.

That's one of several things I like about Obama, but it doesn't make him more or less progressive than Hillary. There are some who think working with a Republican should disqualify him from being considered a progressive. I think that's ridiculous.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
8. Obama is more liberal, more honest, and more competent than Hillary
Edited on Sun Feb-10-08 03:13 AM by TexasObserver
Smarter and prettier, too.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Dear God I hope you are kidding.
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