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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:23 AM
Original message
We really don't count for much...
I was an Edwards supporter for a variety of reasons, since he's dropped out, I've been spending time at both Obama and Hillary's websites, trying to find who I'd feel most comfortable supporting.

I've always been pretty aware of the fact that candidates in general tend to give alot of lip service to our issues, saying what they need to say to entice the pocketbooks to open and the proper levers to get pulled in the voting booth without any real commitment to our issues as GLBT citizens. And I've listened to plenty of "civil unions=good/marriage=bad" from all the contenders to know that this isn't really going to strike high on their agendas once the ballots are all tabulated.

But after researching, I've come to the conclusion that they really think we're that stupid, and it pisses me off to be played that way.

In spite of all the talk from all the candidates about ending Don't Ask, Don't Tell - damn if I can find it on their websites. Plenty of space for all the wonderful things they plan to do for veterans once elected, but nothing for me, a veteran who's career got ended when someone told.

In spite of all the happy words about repealing/changing DOMA - not one word again, I looked in the Families section, the Strengthening the Middle Class section, the Faith sections.

In spite of all the great rhetoric about civil rights and equality - I sure have a hard time finding GLBT information being included in any of those online issues pages. Are we not civil enough? Or maybe we've been too civil before.

And it dawned on me that the President isn't the one who would be introducing that sort of legislation in the first place - it would be a Representative or Senator (flashback to 8th grade civics class). And who do we have running this election? 2 sitting Senators, neither of which has introduced any legislation to rectify those issues they keep telling me they're so deeply concerned about and planning to fix once they get elected.

Now certainly, there are those who will tell me I should just suck it up and vote for anyone with a D behind their name because the one's with R are so much worse. After all, I shouldn't be such a "single issue" voter. I should take a look at all of the issues and make my decision based on that. So here is my recap of all the issues:


  • Taxes - my status as a gay man means that I'll pay about $4,000 more this year than if I was married)
  • Economy - I live in a state that is only attracting economic growth in one city, the one who happens to have the largest employer base of GLBT friendly companies in the SouthEast)
  • Healthcare - I am not eligble to be on my partner's health plan. And if I was, instead of him getting a tax break for it and paying for it with pretax dollars, he'd have to pay it with after tax dollars AND the gov't would impute the amount his employer paid on my behalf and my partner would have to pay taxes on that portion as well.
  • Social Security & Retirement - As it stands now, neither of us will be able to pass along whatever benefits we've accumulated through Social Security. And instead of a 401K passing on to me without a tax penalty if I recognized as a spouse, I get the joy having that income dumped on top of mine for the taxable year, pushing me into a higher bracket.
  • Civil Rights - Plenty of talk about equal access to all, regardless if woman or minority. But it rings pretty hollow to those of us in this country who are treated differently every single day. If I worked for someone else, I can still be fired for being gay. Imagine the uproar if I fired one of my employees for being black or a woman? But still perfectly legal to walk right up to someone and tell them they're fired for being a faggot or a dyke.
  • Faith - All the candidates are touting their personal faith and their commitment to strengthening the faith based communities. But that really only applies to those faiths that don't actively support equal treatment of all regardless of sexuality. Should my church provide their blessing/ritual/ceremony to support my commitment to Chris, those outside don't want it to have the same validity as when their church does the same for straight couples.
  • Strengthening Families - Yes, all the candidates are for families. Well, those that fit certain molds and societal norms. Because the family that came about when the gay couple chose to adopt the special needs child that no one else wanted doesn't need the same protections as the straight white couple down the street. Because I haven't seen any bills or amendments introduced by any of the candidates that would have cover the GLBT spouses or parents on an equal footing as everyone else. Or prevent states from discriminating based on that for adoption placements.
  • Immigration - Plenty of discussion about reforming our current immigration system, but haven't seen anything introduced by any of them that would allow a foreign born spouse of GLBT to be treated the same way as if they were actually married. Or even to recognize those who have been actually married in those countries progressive enough to allow that. But I do know couples who aren't living together because of these archaic rules as they wait for someone to finally clear all the hurdles that are only in place for certain people.
  • Poverty - I've seen plenty about the need to tackle the issues of poverty in this country, along with specific plans for certain people. But the concept of life partners where one dies and leaves the other in total poverty because the laws allow the deceased partner's family more rights to their combined assets than the GBLT spouse who survives (in spite of wills and all the other loopholes we have to jump through to try to protect ourselves) are still on the books in many states and I've seen no leadership from the Federal level to try to remedy that.


So the next time someone wants to criticize me for being a "single issue" voter, please take a look at this list again. I have a hard time finding any part of the domestic policy agendas that don't treat me and other GLBT differently that other Americans based on who I love. And if you think that I'm unfairly bashing your chosen candidate, please show me where they have actually done something to address these issues (not just talk about it at the gay friendly fundraising events). You see, they are real issues to many of us, in a country where we're all supposed to be treated the same under the law. And if you can't understand that it really is different for some of us and can't bring yourself to say that we really do have a valid point and that it isn't right to treat some of us differently based on this one characteristic - please examine your own labels again. Perhaps it's time to stop referring to yourself as a Progressive.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm glad you posted this here as well.
Thanks.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nice post.
Reality is like that.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. Kick
Thank you
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Happy to recommend twice
Because it's very true.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I recommended it twice, also.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hillary said she would scrap DADT policy during the Townhall meeting. I believe
she is serious about it.

She had said a few months ago-it was the best bill could do at that time.
But I think-times have changed and she will work to scrape it.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Again, I can't find any legislation that's been introduced to scrap it
I'd love to see it, but right now - just saying it in the campaign sounds too much like all the promises we normally get - I'm asking if anyone's seen anything concrete

Senators and Reps introduce the bills to make law, the President signs them. So right now, while they are sitting Senators is the time they would actually be backing up the words with actions - not saying that they will make this happen once they get elected
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. One reason it matters -- Judges
I hate it whenever it's brought up.

But the unfortunate fact is that either Clinton or Obama that would be more likely to preserve what protections do exist, and less likely to toss them into the wastebasket

John McCain would approve judges who have the intent to roll back all civil rights protection..

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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Not arguing that point at all, simply saying that the candidates
always want our money and votes (GLBT community) and always tell us how they are going to put an end to things like DOMA or Don't Ask Don't Tell, but never actually introduce the legislation that would make that happen. And it's not candidate specific, I'm bashing them all equally - they (including Edwards) said they wanted to do away with, but none of them have made a move to change it. Why? Because they think it would cost them more in votes/money than it would bring in. Equal rights for all is a great campaign slogan. Wish they'd recognize that it's an even better platform to support.
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
9. I know exactly where you are coming from because I am in the same situation as you
That said, I made a decision to vote for Hillary based on my experience with her. She did a lot of things for the GLBT community in Arkansas where I am from. If your interested in knowing specifics of what she did when she was first lady I'd be glad to list them. I just wanted you to be aware Hillary is very supportive of the GLBT community. However, I don't know Obama's history with the GLBT community so I can't speak about that. I suppose you will have to make up your mind based on who you think will work for us. It seems this voting cycle GLBT issues are not a priority. That said, I appreciate your post and the specifics in it because I can relate to what your feeling.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. Hillary's website
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I could never have found that info had you not provided the link
Can you describe the sequence of buttons you click to get from http://www.hillaryclinton.com/ to http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/lgbt/? I got lost.

I can't figure out how you found this. Thanks.

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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I don't actually remember
I've had it bookmarked for quite some time
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ctaylors6 Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Just go under Issues on main bar, then choose "Strengthening our Democracy"
Edited on Sun Feb-10-08 02:04 PM by ctaylors6
Look at the top right under "Hillary's Plans." The "Strengthening our Democracy" category is her civil rights category.

I don't think it's a matter of needing to hunt for it -- it's just not clear at first what "strengthening out democracy" means.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Thanks
Yeah, it's hogwash. Means nothing.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Never said that the candidates didn't put up info for LGBT on their
Edited on Sun Feb-10-08 12:41 PM by BR_Parkway
websites - but you really have to hunt for it on all the websites. It's more of the "cake and eat it too" syndrome. They want something up there so they can show us how for the community they are (bring in bucks and votes) and they don't want to put it up front and center like so many things so that people don't hold it against them.

I'd love to email them both and say "Hey, McCain is going to say you support the homosexual agenda no matter what you do, would it be too much for you to act like you do?"

They do have info up, but again, none of it really does address the issues that I raised (and that goes for both candidates, I've been really careful to try to keep the focus on the fact that GBLT voters are not single issue votes, and that supporting equal protection of our rights goes across many facets of the domestic policy agenda)
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. It's easy to find on Obama's. It's part of the drop down menu for "People" on the main page
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rubberducky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. It`s so sad to me that you would even have to post like this.
There should be NO distinctions. WE ARE ALL JUST PEOPLE.We`re all just struggling to survive global warming and "W" presidency. Maybe, being an old hippie I just DO NOT understand prejudice in any form. How can we move forward without giving civil rights to all our citizens?
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I think you nailed it right on the head
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. As you have seen there is a link to Hillary's website
that addresses some of the issues you refer to, but no, none of them really deal with these issues in a consistently urgent way.

And of course you a valid point....these things shouldn't be issues. I don't understand how anyone can believe they somehow have the right to deny the GLBT community rights. Who are they to decide the constitution is just for them?

I'm sorry you have to face this kind of shit....it's not right and it never has been.

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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. Clinton, Obama (and even Edwards) will do the same thing -- support and sign legislation
They will also appoint non-Federalist Society judges, which will be important to protecting all of our rights in the future.

Part of Obama's platform includes the push to "enact legislation that would ensure that the 1,100+ federal legal rights and benefits currently provided on the basis of marital status are extended to same-sex couples in civil unions and other legally-recognized unions."
http://pride.barackobama.com/page/content/lgbthome
This is the almost exactly the same wording Edwards put on his site.

It is harder for me to find things on Clinton's website, but I'm sure that she feels the same.

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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
I'd rec it a million more times if I could. :yourock:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
Thank you over and over again.


So the next time someone wants to criticize me for being a "single issue" voter, please take a look at this list again.


That's just what people never seem to get. GLBT issues are not just a "single issue". They affect every aspect of our lives. They are everything to us.

I just wish I could recommend your post more than once.
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
24. kick!
Great post. I am in the same situation.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. me too
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
26. The evidence we just don't count for much?
The paucity of response to this thread. :-(
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